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Thread: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth!

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    Default Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth!

    Hello everybody thanks for your interest in my post in advance, also english is not my primary language so it might sound funny at time i'l do my best, i'm going to lay it all out without filter and everything i have so you guys can help me the best you guys can if possible because i am very stressed about all this


    my first problem to have a better understanding of what's next is:


    5 months ago i saved a baby squirrel from the exterminator at a friends house basicaly pushed the guy over as he was gona spray a nest and threatned him to beat him up if he keeps going i went home with the last baby alive i named him *kazooie* from the nintendo 64 game banjo&kazooie i read everything i could find for weeks in order to help him(boy) to live and thrive i started by rehydrating him with unflavored pedyalite and after the only thing i could find was pupy milk extremely expensive 50$ for a small light jar with individual packets mixed it properly and fed him around the cock even at night he seemed to be doing good climbing and playing slowly developing motor skill. i would come back from the grocery store and he was hanging from his cage screaming to be held and i would or my gf feed him every time he needed according to how old we estimated him to be often he would refuse the milk (freshly mixed every time) so we assumed we did it good one day i woke up and he looked fine and jumpy then i went to work and my girlfriend 3 4 hours later said he was looking paralised from the rear end and twitching and barely breathing i took the road home from work litteraly and the time i took to come back in the traffic (1h30 2h) he was dead.... i did read a lot of things online saying baby squirrels really are one of the most fragile babies in the animal kingdom and can die for no aparent reason every frequently but i also suspected MBD since i'm a nutritionist and a trainer i know puppy milk isin't squirrel milk and no one can feed him better than his mommy... maybe he wasent metabolising the 400% increased need of calcium for him in *that* specific food source and he died of it but that fast ?? maybe you guys can elighten me on that my question is:


    what do you think i have done wrong and killed him ?



    second part is i found a very weak squirrel i taught was male in the attic barely moving so to took her in a cage and after warming her up with a hairdryer 2 hours and feeding pedialyte unflavored later she was very energised and playfull buy would try to bump the cage if i put my finger close so i left her alone(agresive). then i researched and i think he was like that because now the planet is so unregulated and it gets so unaturaly cold in the sumer night (almost drops below zero) that he entered a state of tropor because it mimics winter and squirrel semi hibernate in cold weather. so as i was about to release him went to the store and when i came back oh well... there was 4 babies in the little nest *now she* had made ! named him rufio (after peter pan's movie the king of the Lostboys with his agresiveness but turned out well it's going to be rufie and now she is very relaxed and come for food with no agresiveness and no problem seem very calm in fact after 3 days.


    SO my question is this, i'm a nutritionist and very knowledged in nutrition i spent the last week researching and if there is one thing i can tell you man oh man is the internet a place of contradictions when it comes to squirels... i joined this site because it looked like the most beleivable place up to now. so what i cached up to now what i think at least a solid fact is: i'm going to need to feed my squirrel 80% rodent blocks and the rest are treats and i made a list of do's and don't for squirrel feeding THAT being said. many people have rodent block recipe on there and i'm in canada so henry's rodent blocks cost a fortune to ship here and also i'm a good cook so why not but include in them things that they say everywhere not to feed squirrels.... like peanuts , cherios , honey (sugar) also some recipes even contain sodium bicarbonate and it's mostly insane amout of sodium and all i read is salt is bad for squirrels !! its even used as a squirrel repellent and poison in some recipe's i've read what the hell ? also baking powder wich contains baking soda ????? hmmm well..

    my second questions are those:


    i did get a hold of aluminium free baking powder is is ok ?
    some recipes say add vanilla some say vanilla EXTRACT are they the same ? because i do have vanilla EXTRACT but it contains alcohol.. alcohol i d'ont think it's good for squirels !
    also some say they add honey so the picky eater want it could i add stevia so it taste sweet but zero sugar ?
    and last question can i use the puppy milk as a whey protein base instead of whey protein ? its packed with vitamins i d'ont have in hand right now


    i know this is a lenghty post and i'm sorry i really love squirels and i want them to thrive and live a long healthy life if you guys could help me and my girlfriend that would be amazing ! also i spend the last 3 days off building a huge cage for them i will attach pictures if i can figure that out here and old pictures of kazooie as well and current rufi and rufi's babies ! thanks in advance
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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    to TheSquirrelBoard

    Wow, this is going to take a while.
    I have to 100% agree with you that the internet is FULL of bad information regarding squirrels.
    My heart is broken often when people come here after finding bad information and their baby is seriously malnourished or frankly dying.

    Just today, I was in a Facebook squirrel group and the misinformation almost blew my mind. I have to walk away from that. On Facebook you have the added drama of those that are ADAMANT in their misinformation and quite willing to fight about it. You just canít fix stupid. Know what I mean.

    Let me get some things together for you.

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    Your girl is a red squirrel right? What a doll! We donít have red squirrels in FL so I have never seen one. I have read a lot about them. I hear they are feisty little critters. I just bet a mama red squirrel will chew your arm off and beat you with it. They are the fastest little things I have ever seen.

    In regard to your first squirrel I suspect that low calcium was probably an issue. Most of the problems we see with squirrel are because the diet is inadequate. We donít wean babies. We let them decide when to give up formula. As long as they are on formula the calcium requirements are being met. If a baby weans early, he is automatically at risk for MBD. I glad you are a nutritionist so you will understand exactly what Iím talking about. More likely, you could teach me a LOT about nutrition. Many people that get a squirrel make the mistake of feeding nuts, seeds and corn to their squirrel. Letís face it, squirrels LOVE nuts, right! Of course they do. If you go in Home Depot or Loweís you will find a food that says Squirrel Food, so this must be what they eat, right? Totally 100% wrong. The Squirrel Food is a mix of nuts, corn and sunflower seeds. While it is OK to feed outsiders this mix, it is deadly to captive squirrels. A captive squirrel can only eat what we feed them and canít balance their diet like a wild squirrel. Nuts, seeds and corn are high phosphorus foods. The body strives metabolically to maintain a 2:1 ratio of Calcium: Phosphorus. When a diet is calcium deficient and high phosphorus foods are fed the body will try to achieve the balance by pulling calcium from the bones. This is what causes Metabolic Bone Disease. In squirrels the first visible symptoms are hind end paralysis and seizures. Without treatment (megadosing calcium), MBD is fatal. This is the extreme scenario. Another situation would be, maybe they arenít getting too many nuts, seeds and corn. Maybe they are getting healthy veggies. The problem with this is that there isnít enough calcium in the veggies to meet there daily requirements. In captivity they need a rodent block to fill this void. Rodent blocks are full of vitamins and minerals that are needed to maintain proper nutrition. A proper diet for a squirrel will include a rodent block, healthy veggies and limited treats like nuts.

    Sometimes we have to get creative, especially with the rodent block. I do know about the cost of Henryís block being prohibitively expensive on Canada. With the shipping itís really expensive. I totally understand.

    For babies we use powdered puppy Esbilac formula OR FoxValley 20:50. These have given the best results at this time. I say... at this time... because there have been issues with these as well in the past.

    Iím going to save this post now as it is getting long. If TSB times out on me it will be lost. Iíll come back later and type more.

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    The problem with most rodent blocks is that if they didn’t grow up eating it as babies they sure won’t eat it as an adult. A baby will willingly eat a rodent block if that’s the first solid food they get. I have 3 babies now. I gave them Envigo Teklad 2018 blocks yesterday and they ate them like they were delicious. Give that same block to an adult and he will look at you like your smoking crack.

    That’s why people use the rodent blocks as a base for making palatable blocks. People add baby food fruits, yogurt, formula and even nuts. By adding a few tasty unhealthy things, the goal is to get them to actually eat them. You have to get creative and frankly some of those ‘creative’ concoctions might not be that healthy either. You would be a better judge of that than me.

    I can send you a Private Message with the Henry’s block recipe. You can get ALL of the ingredients locally except their vitamin/mineral mix. I have made the blocks before and I bought the vitamin mix from Henry’s. I just buy them now as the vitamins aren’t really that cheap.

    Here is a link to the healthy diet for pet/captive squirrels.
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-Pet-Squirrels

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    As a nutritionist, this is a chart that you will find helpful. It give the calcium to phosphorus ratio of different foods. It is an excellent guide for determining which foods are better than others in terms of calcium. You can even use it to make Ďbetterí choices among the unhealthy treats. For example, an almond is better than a pecan. IMO, a pinenut is SO unhealthy, I never feed them, even as treats. You will see why on the chart.


    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...7&d=1232419601

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    I wanted to comment on one thing in your post. You mentioned that you had read that baby squirrels are the most fragile babies in the animal kingdom. To that I would say yes and no. Obviously baby squirrels live in trees as they are arboreal. When we find them on the ground itís because they have fallen from the nest or a predator plucked them from the nest and dropped them some distance from the nest. Babies tend to have large heads and small bodies so when they fall itís often head first. If they fall on a hard surface they are prone to head injuries which can lead to neurological issue immediately or at some point in the future. They come to us in often with a tragic history that we rarely know about. Sometimes these injuries can cause their death after they come into our care. We assume itís something we did when sometimes their fate was sealed when we find them and our role is only to offer love and comfort until they pass. Itís a sad part of rehabbing but an equally important part.

    Their tiny stature makes them fragile when faced with predators and such. Laying these things aside, a healthy baby squirrel isnít really that fragile. With proper care and nutrition they thrive, no question about it. Sometimes we make mistakes that causes them to pass. That happened to me with my first. I made a beginner error and my baby died. It wasnít because he was fragile, it was on me. Personally I donít find squirrels any more fragile than any other babies. I remember a licensed rehabber telling me that they are fragile and only half of his survived. Now that I know better, I question his methods because a 50% survival rate tells me he is doing something wrong. Later I found out what it was. He was clueless about high phosphorus foods. He made squirrel biscuits for his kids out of dried corn. Yep, thatís the reason why. They are amazingly hearty if we care for them properly.

    Talk about fragile... wild baby bunnies.... now they ARE fragile.

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    thank you so much with your many amazingly detailed replies to my problems i wasent aware of the high prosphorus food being bad ! i totaly understand your point of view really looks like mine yes the mixed seed and stuff at the supermarket is completely retarded to say the least just wow.. and also the nutrition chart is just amazing thank you SO much

    on that an hour ago ive seen her eat a baby... i researched and they say all kinds of seasons... including when she feels she has bad nutrition she will eat them because she feels she wont be able to feed all those babies (if too many)
    so i got my cooking going lets just say that...

    i did:

    dry ingredients

    80g puppy milk protein
    130g finely ground nuts half hazelnuts/half almonds unsweetned and organic
    1/3 cup wheat flour organic
    1 tsp aluminium free baking powder
    45g of dried meal worms instead of henry's healthy vita mins for extra protein

    wet ingredients

    1 whole egg
    1 tsp vanilla extract
    1/2 cup water




    currently cooking 1h30 in the oven at 205 degrees on a lightly greased with macadamia nut oil baking sheel in a glass tray
    i gave her some raw dough and she went crazy on it right away i am so lucky... going to have to wait for the actual block if same reaction i hope i am curing the problem



    i would really like to know if i could make the recipe without the baking powder it contains sodium bicarbonate and not very good for squirells
    and also is there vanilla extract without alcohol ? thats not very good either



    as you say the most dangerous people are those who think they know what theire doing but are doing the exact oposite ! i'm glad you're here to help me with that

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    Please don't worry about the alcohol in vanilla extract. The amount used is very small in relation to the entire recipe, and alcohol is pretty much vaporized by the heat of baking. The flavor and scent is important to include.

    Baking powder is your leavening and what makes the recipe "rise" and not be extremely dense. So I would imagine you would get a dramatically different result without it. I know that the blocks that we all buy - the Henrys - use aluminum free baking powder.

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Please don't worry about the alcohol in vanilla extract. The amount used is very small in relation to the entire recipe, and alcohol is pretty much vaporized by the heat of baking. The flavor and scent is important to include.

    Baking powder is your leavening and what makes the recipe "rise" and not be extremely dense. So I would imagine you would get a dramatically different result without it. I know that the blocks that we all buy - the Henrys - use aluminum free baking powder.


    this is completely true about the alcohol vaporizing when cooking and i just looked and you're totaly right about the henry's recipe i feel so much beter thank you !!!

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    That's pretty sad. You might have to take the remaining babies from her.
    Stress could cause her to do the same to the others. Before you do that though, you need to be prepared.
    I would have formula, syringes, proper nipples and a heating pad. You might need it.

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    Incase the squirrel rejects the cooked block, you could use this source of low alcohol organic vanilla extract

    in a non-cook recipe to support this squirrel.

    https://www.amazon.com/Simply-Organi...B00I6CV8FK?th=

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    thanks for the vanilla extract link i didint knew it existed ! and i think a baby died by itself that's why she ate it but there is still 4 now and well! i am not sure tho if she will eat the blocks any tricks apart from the vanilla to get them to eat them ?

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    This source has had some success to creating appeal for the rodent block, adding a raw seed aroma.

    It is also a high quality nutritional source by itself, with the highest ratio of Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids of any raw seed oil.

    It's also an anti inflammatory, and an anti oxidant, and organic.

    Using this food grade chia oil source, include 2 drops, one on each block, and if needed, two on each block.

    https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Alive-A.../dp/B007788AZA

    I don't like using highly concentrated processed sugar sources, as they cause the pH of the urine to rise,

    which promotes calcium loss from the meal into the urine.

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    amazinig awnsers thank you for all i owe you a lot !!!

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    Default Re: Need nutrition help, i found a weak squirel fully restored her and she gave birth

    Try adding 2 drops to each rodent block daily; then once the block is accepted reduce the drops to one per rodent block.

    Glad to help!

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