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Thread: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

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    Default 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    She began seizuring yesterday. I have CBD in her. It has helped. She was getting biscuits but they are not good apparently. I supplement with some D3 because we moved and she can't be outside or get sun. WOuld you start MBD treament? or worry about hypercalcemia. I don't know what to do.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    We would need more info about her diet and any prior medical problems and medications you have used to make the best suggestions.
    I note you said in the title she is 10 years old. Is she non releasable because of physical or social conditions?

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Quote Originally Posted by Javarat View Post
    We would need more info about her diet and any prior medical problems and medications you have used to make the best suggestions.
    I note you said in the title she is 10 years old. Is she non releasable because of physical or social conditions?
    She's on squirrel nutrition biscuits recipe and now I know it is not good. MBD 4 years ago. seemed to get fine again. toenails snag. increased urination. non releasable due to physical.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    With her background I would start the MBD protocol YESTERDAY. Do you have any calcium without vitamin D added? If not, get some Tums.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Thank you everyone for your care and responses. I am new to this board and it has been a frightening 3 days. Miss Suzy was raised from 9 days old until release. A cat got her within the first 10 days. She came to me for help. Nursed her back to health with antibiotics and she would not leave. She would hide under my hair. I didn't force her to go. The hole in her belly healed and her tail had a chunk out of the tip. She used to eat calcium tablets, one a day. They were mint flavored and had rosemary in them. They are from a wellness company. She ate banana flavored cuttle bone too. At the age of 7 years she decided she didn't like the calcium tablets anymore and I could no longer find banana flavored cuttle bone. She wouldn't eat other flavors or plain. I knew nothing about blocks. Within a year she had a seizure one day and I got online to research why that might happen and found Henry's. I got her squared away with much work and force feeding and life was good. I tried numerous flavors of blocks and she would eat them with constant begging and restricting food on my part. It was miserable because up to this time food time was fun! When I moved, I fed them to the wildlife squirrels because I had a freezer of blocks she would not eat. I thought maybe another company might have something. I came upon squirrelnutrition.com and found a recipe. I made my own from Bill's recipe. I also found online a humane farm that harvested elk antlers and she liked those. I bought the calcium powder from Henry's and put the powder in any food she got such as avocados. She was doing well for the first year I began this new recipe. Later I purchased the bags of mix from Bill, to make myself without having to buy the ingredients separately. I think this is where things went awry. She liked the biscuits and they became the mainstay of her diet. As you can imagine, I was thrilled, thinking she liked them and was getting great nutrition. It obviously wasn't the best nutrition. By now she had turned 9 years old. I saw signs of things I was sad about but blamed on age. The reason I went to age is because I thought I was giving her almost a solid diet of these awesome squirrel biscuits with everything she needed. I supplemented with elk antlers, powdered calcium sprinkled on avocados and she got all kinds of fruits, vegetables, in season dandelion, maple leaves, clover, honeysuckle, roses, and daisies. As a treat only, she got acorns and nuts. Little did I know the mix was no good. I have not found a vet who can help me and the rehabber I knew years ago had retired. I then moved last October. She had turned 9 in August. The housing is temporary and unfortunately there was no nice place for playing outside or natural sun. There is no privacy. I bought a reptile light but then was told that would not be good for her. I knew she needed D3 from sun and she was clearly not my normal happy squirrel. I would give her D3 oil on her biscuits now and then to supplement what I thought she was not getting from being outside. When I lived in the mountains she was out or by the sunny window everyday weather would allow. This new place does not allow for that. She started out Monday, 8/5/19 normal. Although normal had become sad. She would eat and drink and sleep. She would want to play but then couldn't really do it for long. She couldn't jump like she did and her toenails snagged on everything. I blamed it on her not being able to go outside and climb. She increased urination. She lost interest in eating her favorite avocados. On Monday afternoon she came out to play in her playroom, which is in the same room as my home office. I divide it so she is safe from wires and i can work and be with her too and she can be out free to play in her playroom area. She jumped off her little porch onto the floor and that was it. She appeared to freeze. I jumped up and went to her and she had a seizure. It was horrifying. She bit her leg and her tongue and was bleeding. After the 5th seizure in the middle of the night I gave her a drop of CBD oil in half a teaspoon of water. She had two more seizures but they were 20 seconds long, as opposed to the 2 minute ones she was having. I looked for old numbers and websites and called Lee at Henry's. The one drop of CBD is for a 10 pound cat but my niece, who is an RN, was researching online for me about squirrels and contacted the vet with the CBD company that my niece sells for. I was told to do it to stop the seizures. I gave the first drop at 9 pm Monday evening and the second drop at 5 am Tuesday morning. She has not had a seizure since 7am Tuesday, morning 8/6/19. She continues to get one drop every 12 hours. I will do this until I feel her nutrition is able to sustain her. Tuesday that was all she had as she was now paralyzed in the back end and just laying there. I was trying to find a vet and rehabber to help me to get her bloodwork for calcium and D3 levels, kidney functions, etc. I didn't know if it was hypercalcemia or hypocalcemia. One needs calcium and the other needs a calcium blocker. I didn't want to treat without medical help. By late afternoon it was clear she couldn't go to Laurel, MD for the wonderful rehabber who offered to meet me at the vet's office. The outpouring of kindness has been amazing. I had to treat her in the dark. Rehabbers almost all said treat for MBD NOW. I did. She did not want the paste of calcium and applesauce (her favorite fruit). The rehabber called me to check on her. He said tough love. Mix the calcium in water and add sweetener. I said I have clover honey. He said perfect and with her having all those seizures, the sugar would be good too. I added the evening drop of CBD oil as well. I thought it would be the usual glass dropper full struggle. Well she grabbed the dropper and drank as fast as she could. From there she tried to bite the tip of the glass off because it wasn't coming out fast enough. I switched to a plastic syringe. We are now at today, Wednesday, 8/7/19. She takes her calcium clover honey water mix with ease, she gets one drop CBD oil morn and night. She ate a shelled hazelnut enthusiastically at 7:30 am. She also had 1.5 thumbnail size pieces of avocado. She held it in between her paws on the bed as she can't sit up. She tires quickly and I put her back to bed. She is in my home office with me and I have her on the daybed where I am sleeping with her for the time being. In other words it is an eat, drink, sleep situation, just like it was when she was an infant. When she wakes up, she has yawned three time today which is normal unlike yesterday and she tries to stretch. She wants massaged. I do of course. At 1:30 pm she had a half thumbnail size piece of crust and cheese from pizza. Of course the calcium water is all day as the hydration source. I put her in her litter box (a metal pan) with paper. She chewed on the side of the pan which is her normal ritual before going potty. It's also why she has a metal litter box. At 3:15 pm she responded to touch on her back legs and tail. They moved. I no sooner got her to bed and at 3:30 pm she began to move under the blankets. This doesn't happen as a rule. She had moved out of the way because she had gone poo. There were 5 pieces. One crumbled like a dry cookie but all others were perfect and no crystals that I was told to watch for. She has since made an effort to wash and she has gone poo 2 more times. The last one was small and a bit dry. NOTE: The pads on her feet had become grey and flat. I thought it was age. Today I thought they were swollen but no. They are full, round and pink. Her tongue and mouth had become pale and today her tongue is beautiful and pink too. At 7:30 pm she ate a piece of water melon, thumbnail size. That is normal size for her. She wanted the second piece but fell asleep, much like a baby would in a high chair. She had been sleeping on her side stretched out. Normal enough but she usually does that squirrel circle to sleep. She is doing it as we speak and snoring. By midnight I will wake her for a small bit of calcium water she has left for this day. I will begin at 6:30 am tomorrow morning with her food intake again. PLEASE READ THIS PART: There has been no pee. [/B] I would say there has been about 4-5 teaspoons of water since Tuesday evening given to her as her calcium water. I tried stimulating her and I hold her back legs in her potty. I left her pee on the paper from Monday before the first seizure so she can smell that is hers. That's her story. Any suggestions are welcomed. Prayers are appreciated. Professional advice is needed. I did this to her without knowing I did this to her. I told her I will make it right. I love her with my whole heart and all of my soul. She will be 10 years old on Friday, 8/9/2019. Thank you for reading about my Miss Suzy Joy Button.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    It sounds like she is dehydrated, you need to get her to drink.
    I would offer her water (maybe adding a tiny bit of honey for flavor) by syringe, pedialyte or homemade pedialyte.
    Have you ordered Henry blocks for her? They have a new hazelnut flavor block now.
    Diet is crucial and she can't have anymore nuts while she is on the mbd protocol.
    I love your girl's name by the way.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Keep on following the mbd treatment. You've got this! You have given her this long and I'm sure there is more to come...
    Squirrels, squirrels and more squirrels....
    Prayers for the people who make this a better world...
    savesquirrels@sbcglobal.net



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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    A key concern with older age is the development of metabolic acidosis from end stage kidney failure. bladder stones, and kidney stones, but most of all kidney failure. Please read the following. Lower phosphorus and animal protein in the diet to take pressure off the kidneys, as this article explains.

    https://www.2ndchance.info/test.php?page=ratkidney


    Avocado is high in magnesium; yet this fruit is also high in phosphorus.
    As the, “2nd Chance” website explains, the level of phosphorus in diets for rodents need to be lower than they were in youth and midlife, to take the pressure off the aged kidneys that don’t function as well to filter out excess phosphorus from the diet.

    During MBD treatment, it is better to feed a source that is higher in calcium than phosphorus, like plain low-fat organic yogurt, adding crushed organic berries to it for flavor. Adding organic vanilla extract to plain low fat yogurt, instead of getting vanilla yogurt that has sugar added to the natural sugar the yogurt contains, is a better choice; for the higher the level of sugar in a food source, the more calcium is lost in the urine as a result.

    https://www.amazon.com/Simply-Organi.../dp/B00I6CV8FK

    A form of magnesium known to well cross the blood-brain barrier (Magnesium L- Threonate), has better potential to lower seizure frequency in the brain, than do other forms that don’t do well to cross the blood-brain barrier.

    https://doublewoodsupplements.com/pr...sium-threonate

    This source notes that, “One full 2000 mg dose of Magnesium L-Threonate by “Double Woods” contains 144 mg of elemental magnesium.”

    To reduce the amount of magnesium in this source, empty the powder of one capsule onto a smooth plastic surface, or onto the waxy side of a piece of butcher paper. Then spread out the powder, and to divide it into four equal parts. Then divide one part, of the four divided parts, in half, including one half part with the AM meal and the other half part with the PM meal.

    Should loose stool result, lower the total measure daily by half, likewise splitting the total daily between the AM and PM meals. If after a few days at this level there is no more loosened stool, then raise the amount back up to the initial amount given.

    With repeated UTI bladder stones or crystals can form as a result; over time these can increase in size or mass where they obstruct the normal flow of urine. Without being able to void urine, toxins build up in the body. Cranberry is one source that can help to dissolve these alkaline bladder stones and inhibits bad the bacteria that causes UTI. Cranberry juice (with naturally occurring sugars only) is a good choice.

    Pre/probiotics are vital to supply in the diet of tree squirrels to support both digestion, and immune health, as 70% of the body’s immune system is located in the gut. Soil based bacteria (SBO) are a good source to include in the diet of the health of tree squirrels cared for in captivity, as these good bacteria combat the bad bacteria, preventing overgrowth of the bad bacteria, which if not opposed leads to the development of bacterial infections.

    https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Flora-cap.../dp/B005PJN2HO

    Plain organic low fat yogurt is another source of good digestive bacterium. "Green Valley” organic lactose free plain low fat yogurt includes pectin, a prebiotic source that lends both support to digestion and the uptake of calcium into the bloodstream.

    https://greenvalleylactosefree.com/p...e-plain-yogurt

    Question: What amount of D3 is noted on the package for the source you have been feeding your squirrel?
    Last edited by TubeDriver; 08-08-2019 at 09:03 PM.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Augmentin is an excellent broad spectrum choice, but estimating dosage by sprinkling on food is NOT the way to go. We already know the milligram size of the pill, now if you can get a weight on her (grams if you can), one of the people here can tell you how to properly dilute and dose precisely.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    Thank you so much! Questions: I have Augmentin which is clavomox and amoxicillin. May I give some of that in case it is a UTI? IT works well for her when she has had any problem in the past. I have 800 mg tabs and sprinkle a tiny bit in food and she eats it. I can start the cranberry juice too but thought maybe to give it a good kick. She is going poo 1-3 pieces every few hours and at 2:30 in the morning she was obviously hungry. I gave her a bit of cheese pizza and half a walnut and ice cream as Lee said just get food in her with her calcium now. Her biscuits are on the way from Henry's. Picky Eater ones. I fear the magnesium will take too long to get here. What pre biotic? I know of pro-biotic but what kind? I can get it at the store today. She refuses to drink water from her bowl. I will do the cranberry juice and water right away this morning. I will stop the avocado and nuts. I will wait to hear from you. Thank you.
    I am on all of this now and will update. I'm not sure how I respond in general to everyone who has given help. I wanted to share though that I found a lovely unsweetened cranberry apple pear juice and she loves it. It has magnesium. I am staying far away from Vit. D3 reading labels. She ate half a pumpkin seed. Trying natural food source magnesium since I can order those recommended and will just to have them but I need something now. I put her in a blanket burrito style and took her outside even though there is no privacy, neighbors are at work.
    She sniffed the air, heard the birds and closed her eyes. We went in and out of the sun carefully to make sure she didn't get hot. I picked a clover for her and she didn't eat it but held it like a flower. It was so cute. She loves outdoors and it breaks my heart that I cannot have that for her at the moment due to where I live. As soon as we came back inside, here is the big news: DRUM ROLL!!!!! She tinkled!!!!!! I am so excited. She dampened a washcloth the size of a deck of cards. It wasn't a soak, it was clearly damp. I will keep working on hydration. Another share: She tried to scratch her neck and the back leg did the motion (this is huge) but couldn't get up to the neck so I helped by scratching her neck. Soon she pushed me away and her back leg came up briefly and scratched her neck. The paralysis seems to be leaving!!! I'll keep you posted. Her Henry's blocks are scheduled to arrive tomorrow. Thank you everyone for caring about my girl!!

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Augmentin is an excellent broad spectrum choice, but estimating dosage by sprinkling on food is NOT the way to go. We already know the milligram size of the pill, now if you can get a weight on her (grams if you can), one of the people here can tell you how to properly dilute and dose precisely.
    ........................................
    I realize you had a lot to absorb when we spoke but I already tried to explain this.
    Squirrels are medicated by body weight, medications have to be broken down/diluted to the proper milligrams and dosage for use on a squirrel.
    The shaving of medications for treatment is inaccurate and a dangerous practice
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    I gave her a bit of cheese pizza and half a walnut and ice cream as Lee said just get food in her with her calcium now.
    This is counter productive!
    Yes, get calcium in her whatever it takes but there are better ways.
    The objective with mbd is to raise her calcium levels.
    Walnuts are 1.0 calcium to 3.5 phosphorus.
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    I didn't give any antibiotic; I was asking if it could be given at all with her current condition. I went the way of cranberry juice and she has gone pee normally now in the last 3 hours. First she dampened a washcloth and then soaked the puppy pad. She is really alert, active, eager for food and hydration. Her back legs are getting stronger by the hour. It's amazing! I will continue to do the instructions given to the best of my ability and keep you posted. You are a lifesaver. Thank you so very much! :-)

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Yeah!!!

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    I didn't give any antibiotic; I was asking if it could be given at all with her current condition. I went the way of cranberry juice and she has gone pee normally now in the last 3 hours. First she dampened a washcloth and then soaked the puppy pad. She is really alert, active, eager for food and hydration. Her back legs are getting stronger by the hour. It's amazing! I will continue to do the instructions given to the best of my ability and keep you posted. You are a lifesaver. Thank you so very much! :-)
    I’m very glad to hear that she is better. Please don’t use puppy pads for a squirrel. There are some that are toxic. They have absorbent chemicals in them that have killed squirrels in the past. It would be safer to use fleece or other cloth like T-shirts (not towels).
    You can use human disposable pads but not the type for puppies.

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Iím very glad to hear that she is better. Please donít use puppy pads for a squirrel. There are some that are toxic. They have absorbent chemicals in them that have killed squirrels in the past. It would be safer to use fleece or other cloth like T-shirts (not towels).
    You can use human disposable pads but not the type for puppies.
    Thank you for that important info. They are gone. I am using good old paper now, which is what she uses as a litter anyway, so I don't know why I didn't go that route to begin with, as it is what she knows she goes potty on.

    She hates these blocks. I'm at my wits ends on how to get them in her. I posted about it; this could unravel the good that has been done. :-(

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    Default Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    I may cause some drama here, but the answer to your question (and possibly the answer to ANY question) is: Nutella. I don't think there are any sentient beings that don't swoon over it, and I have used it to convince stubborn little squirrels (lookin' at YOU, Zeke) to eat their blocks.

    Since she doesn't like ground, cut your HHB block into about three slices. They will be thin but thick enough to stay together and not crumble. Use a butter knife or the like and use it to push the nutella into the pores of the block, then leave just a teeny bit of excess. You don't need much. What I did, was after he started doing pretty good at eating the blocks I started reducing the nutella until I just wasn't using it at all.

    I have also used it to dispense calcium doses, BTW. Measure out your calcium, then add small amounts of nutella to the calcium until it holds together nice and will form little balls but isn't gooey. Then roll little balls and dividing the total calcium you used by the number of balls you end up with will tell you how much calcium you have per "dose."

    I am NOT recommending feeding squirrels Nutella on a regular basis, but I strongly believe that if you can get meds and treatments into them WITHOUT a battle, the gain from not stressing them more than outweighs the bit of not so great nutrition you use to get there...

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    Red face Re: 10 yo seizuring suspect MBD but could be too much D3

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    I may cause some drama here, but the answer to your question (and possibly the answer to ANY question) is: Nutella. I don't think there are any sentient beings that don't swoon over it, and I have used it to convince stubborn little squirrels (lookin' at YOU, Zeke) to eat their blocks.

    Since she doesn't like ground, cut your HHB block into about three slices. They will be thin but thick enough to stay together and not crumble. Use a butter knife or the like and use it to push the nutella into the pores of the block, then leave just a teeny bit of excess. You don't need much. What I did, was after he started doing pretty good at eating the blocks I started reducing the nutella until I just wasn't using it at all.

    I have also used it to dispense calcium doses, BTW. Measure out your calcium, then add small amounts of nutella to the calcium until it holds together nice and will form little balls but isn't gooey. Then roll little balls and dividing the total calcium you used by the number of balls you end up with will tell you how much calcium you have per "dose."

    I am NOT recommending feeding squirrels Nutella on a regular basis, but I strongly believe that if you can get meds and treatments into them WITHOUT a battle, the gain from not stressing them more than outweighs the bit of not so great nutrition you use to get there...
    Thank you and I agree. I've never had it but sometimes, as Mary Poppins would say, "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." I'll keep you posted.

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