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Thread: Help.

  1. #1
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    Default Help.

    Greetings.

    Kind of new to the board.
    Our Ooogie has been with us for a couple of years. A hurricane brought us together.

    She has generally been in good health but in the last week, I noticed some slight trembling when she pees.

    This morning, she is somewhat lethargic and had to be begged to to come out her cage today.

    Totally not like her.

    She ate some avocado and a little gouda cheese but went back to sleep after cuddling for about 90 minutes.

    She is usually more animated.

    Her diet is pretty diverse but does include her favorite junk food as a treat once or twice a week such as fresh cheese, one cheese doddle or a French fry.

    Main food staples include pistachio 3 or 5 a day, circus pet rat mix, fresh avocado, fresh blue berries, fresh raspberry, fresh cilantro, fresh romaine, fresh tomatoes, fresh broccoli.

    I did bring in a bag of mixed shelled nuts recently, she has been given one a day as a treat, they are fresh as we have tried them.

    I have some antibiotics on hand if needed
    (cephalexin and amoxicillin)


    Henry Blocks are on the way, she never liked them but we will try harder.

    Any advice we be greatly appreciated
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  2. #2
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    SammysMom is offline Administrator, Conn. Licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator
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    Default Re: Help.

    Welcome to the board! What is in the rat mix you feed? I suspect that this is diet related and i would start the mbd protocol. I will post the link in just a minute.
    Squirrels, squirrels and more squirrels....
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  3. #3
    SammysMom's Avatar
    SammysMom is offline Administrator, Conn. Licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator
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    Default Re: Help.

    Here is the link to mbd treatment. Just in case it is a uti, ask around for ciprofloxacin or bactrim ,(also called SMZ/TMP)

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-MBD-Treatment
    Squirrels, squirrels and more squirrels....
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    Default Re: Help.

    Brown's Tropical Carnival Mouse & Rat Food, 2-lb bag



    Can you offer and advice on getting her to take what must be given for MBD? She squeals something awful when we forced

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by SammysMom View Post
    Welcome to the board! What is in the rat mix you feed? I suspect that this is diet related and i would start the mbd protocol. I will post the link in just a minute.
    Thank you, will get started

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help.

    Here is a link the the Browns Tropical Carnival Rat food.
    https://www.amazon.com/Tropical-Carn...gateway&sr=8-3
    Even though it is fortified it is mostly junk foods.... corn, seeds and nuts.

    I agree that you are seeing the beginning stages of Metabolic Bone Disease.
    I would start the MBD protocol right away. She probably screams because she is in pain. MBD is painful. Be careful with her as her bones are probably weakened from low calcium and high phosphorus foods.
    I would withhold all nuts at this time.

    Iíve never had any luck with the Henryís Adult or Baby squirrel High Protein blocks. You should buy either the Picky Eater Block or the new Hazelnut Block. I have had much better luck getting them to eat those.

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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Here is a link the the Browns Tropical Carnival Rat food.
    https://www.amazon.com/Tropical-Carn...gateway&sr=8-3
    Even though it is fortified it is mostly junk foods.... corn, seeds and nuts.

    I agree that you are seeing the beginning stages of Metabolic Bone Disease.
    I would start the MBD protocol right away. She probably screams because she is in pain. MBD is painful. Be careful with her as her bones are probably weakened from low calcium and high phosphorus foods.
    I would withhold all nuts at this time.

    Iíve never had any luck with the Henryís Adult or Baby squirrel High Protein blocks. You should buy either the Picky Eater Block or the new Hazelnut Block. I have had much better luck getting them to eat those.

    Will look at those options. I can handle her, she wants to stay in the nest portion of her cage. Removed all nuts and left some blocks and avocado. She took some broccoli but I am trying to figure out how to give her the calcium paste from the protocol. She did take a whole calcium pill and ate about 10% of it before putting it down.

    Is it possible that she will ignore the blocks and rather starve or will hunger force her to reconsider?

    She wont take the calcium paste.

    I was able to get a pure calcium carbonate @600 mg, I figure next step is to mix it into some avocado.

    Thank you for any help.

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    Default Re: Help.

    She wonít starve herself. She can have a few healthy veggies but no nuts. I really think you will have better luck with the Picky or Hazelnut block.

    You can take the amount recommended for a day. Will she eat peanut or almond butter? If so, you can mix portions of the calcium into the peanut/almond butter and roll it into balls. Make them small. Give her the PB balls throughout the day until they are gone. Do that everyday. If she loves avocado you might be able to dip a cut side into the calcium. A wet avocado cube will hold a lot of calcium. The last option is to make it slightly runny and syringe feed it. You donít want to give the entire dose at one time. Spread it out over time so the amounts will be small and less objectionable.

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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    She wonít starve herself. She can have a few healthy veggies but no nuts. I really think you will have better luck with the Picky or Hazelnut block.

    You can take the amount recommended for a day. Will she eat peanut or almond butter? If so, you can mix portions of the calcium into the peanut/almond butter and roll it into balls. Make them small. Give her the PB balls throughout the day until they are gone. Do that everyday. If she loves avocado you might be able to dip a cut side into the calcium. A wet avocado cube will hold a lot of calcium. The last option is to make it slightly runny and syringe feed it. You donít want to give the entire dose at one time. Spread it out over time so the amounts will be small and less objectionable.
    She doesn't like peanut butter, never tried almond butter because she doesn't like almonds. Gonna make a run for dandelion greens. Will try the avacado method and picky blocks were ordered.

    Thank you so much.

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    Default Re: Help.

    With this rat diet, that notes it contains a min. of 25% calcium, and a max of 75 % calcium with 35% phosphorus; if it contained a min. of 25% calcium, then a (P:Ca) negative ratio of Phosphorus to Calcium, it would result in MBD causing bone loss and metabolic acidosis that has been found in laboratory research to result in early mortality in rats. If this diet contained 50% Calcium content, then a (1.42 :1) positive (Ca:P) ratio, it would lend sufficient macro-mineral support for growth and bone development for juvenile squirrels. Only if it contained (70 % to 75 %) a (2:1) to (2.14: 1) (Ca:P) ratio, would it lend provide a (Ca:P) ratio that can well support adult squirrels for maintenance in support of their metabolic and bone health.

    Yet, as it isn't guaranteed to provide the min. (Ca:P) ratio for that which supports juveniles or adults either, no to mention that the noted phosphorus content is a min. of 35 percent, that potentially could be higher, this source isn't one that can be reasonably relied upon to provide a balanced nutritional support for the minimum (Ca:P) ratio requirements for either juvenile or adult tree squirrels.

    For dandelion greens, to reduce their bitter taste and gassiness, make them more digestible, and eliminate potential bad bacteria or endo-parasites, you would need to blanch (boil) the leaves a min. of 90 sec., then let them cool sufficiently prior to feeding.

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  13. #11
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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    With this rat diet, that notes it contains a min. of 25% calcium, and a max of 75 % calcium with 35% phosphorus; if it contained a min. of 25% calcium, then a (P:Ca) negative ratio of Phosphorus to Calcium, it would result in MBD causing bone loss and metabolic acidosis that has been found in laboratory research to result in early mortality in rats. If this diet contained 50% Calcium content, then a (1.42 :1) positive (Ca:P) ratio, it would lend sufficient macro-mineral support for growth and bone development for juvenile squirrels. Only if it contained (70 % to 75 %) a (2:1) to (2.14: 1) (Ca:P) ratio, would it lend provide a (Ca:P) ratio that can well support adult squirrels for maintenance in support of their metabolic and bone health.

    Yet, as it isn't guaranteed to provide the min. (Ca:P) ratio for that which supports juveniles or adults either, no to mention that the noted phosphorus content is a min. of 35 percent, that potentially could be higher, this source isn't one that can be reasonably relied upon to provide a balanced nutritional support for the minimum (Ca:P) ratio requirements for either juvenile or adult tree squirrels.

    For dandelion greens, to reduce their bitter taste and gassiness, make them more digestible, and eliminate potential bad bacteria or endo-parasites, you would need to blanch (boil) the leaves a min. of 90 sec., then let them cool sufficiently prior to feeding.

    Thank you for the information.
    She is small and I figure we got close to 100 mg in her today, will try a slurry of calcium and peanut butter powder. About 45 minutes after getting dandelion greens she came down out of her loft/bedroom.


    She seems a little better.

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    Default Re: Help.

    Another option for delivering the powdered calcium partial multi daily MBD treatment doses would be to make up a dough ball type mixture consisting of organic: quick cook plain organic oatmeal. plain organic yogurt, and organic naturally sweetened applesauce, with no additional sugars added. These are available in 6 pack of little min plastic tubs.

    Since oatmeal about doubles in size from the measure to cooked measure, 1/2 Tbsp. = 1 + 1/2 Tsp. dry measure makes about 1 Tbsp. of quick cook (not instant) organic plain oatmeal.

    Add to this 1/4 plain lowfat organic yogurt (Stonyfield or Green Valley yogurt), and mix well

    Then add 1/4 Tsp. of naturally sweetened (no sugars added) organic applesauce, and mix well.

    Then add the daily amount of calcium to the mixture 500 to 600 mg. calcium carbonate powder, and mix well.

    Chill in the fridge; once chilled form 6 approx. equal scoops, using a 1/4 Teaspoon as a scoop for the mini ball out of the total mixture.

    Chill again on a covered plate to set, and then till ready to feed.


    In addition:


    One drop of this organic vanilla extract also can add appeal to the oatmeal min balls.

    https://www.amazon.com/Simply-Organi...00I6CV8FK?th=1

    Placing a drop of virgin coconut oil after the mixture is set, on each mini oatmeal balls, may add taste and scent appeal to the mixture.


    This yogurt may also be available in a one serving about 5 oz. size.

    https://www.stonyfield.com/products/...fat-plain-32oz


    Mini tubs of organic naturally sweetened applesauce are available in a 6 pack of little plastic tubs in the canned fruit section.


    Should your squirrel refuse to eat the mixture, which isn't uncommon since MBD can effect the jaw making it painful to chew, then try adding the calcium to diluted organic yogurt with about half of 1/4 Tsp. of the naturally sweet organic unsweetened applesauce, pulling it up into a syringe to place a drop at a time onto the tongue right behind the incisors through the open space between the front and back teeth, just inside the lip, which will reach the tongue but not gag the squirrel. Makes sure it is swallowed before giving the next drop so that it doesn't go down the wrong way.

    .

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  16. #13
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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    Another option for delivering the powdered calcium partial multi daily MBD treatment doses would be to make up a dough ball type mixture consisting of organic: quick cook plain organic oatmeal. plain organic yogurt, and organic naturally sweetened applesauce, with no additional sugars added. These are available in 6 pack of little min plastic tubs.

    Since oatmeal about doubles in size from the measure to cooked measure, 1/2 Tbsp. = 1 + 1/2 Tsp. dry measure makes about 1 Tbsp. of quick cook (not instant) organic plain oatmeal.

    Add to this 1/4 plain lowfat organic yogurt (Stonyfield or Green Valley yogurt), and mix well

    Then add 1/4 Tsp. of naturally sweetened (no sugars added) organic applesauce, and mix well.

    Then add the daily amount of calcium to the mixture 500 to 600 mg. calcium carbonate powder, and mix well.

    Chill in the fridge; once chilled form 6 approx. equal scoops, using a 1/4 Teaspoon as a scoop for the mini ball out of the total mixture.

    Chill again on a covered plate to set, and then till ready to feed.


    In addition:


    One drop of this organic vanilla extract also can add appeal to the oatmeal min balls.

    https://www.amazon.com/Simply-Organi...00I6CV8FK?th=1

    Placing a drop of virgin coconut oil after the mixture is set, on each mini oatmeal balls, may add taste and scent appeal to the mixture.


    This yogurt may also be available in a one serving about 5 oz. size.

    https://www.stonyfield.com/products/...fat-plain-32oz


    Mini tubs of organic naturally sweetened applesauce are available in a 6 pack of little plastic tubs in the canned fruit section.


    Should your squirrel refuse to eat the mixture, which isn't uncommon since MBD can effect the jaw making it painful to chew, then try adding the calcium to diluted organic yogurt with about half of 1/4 Tsp. of the naturally sweet organic unsweetened applesauce, pulling it up into a syringe to place a drop at a time onto the tongue right behind the incisors through the open space between the front and back teeth, just inside the lip, which will reach the tongue but not gag the squirrel. Makes sure it is swallowed before giving the next drop so that it doesn't go down the wrong way.

    .

    Thank you.

    Update:

    Oogie is back to her normal self this morning. We will continue the MBS protocol. Thank You all for the fantastic advice.
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  18. #14
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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKay View Post

    Update:

    Oogie is back to her normal self this morning. We will continue the MBD protocol. Thank You all for the fantastic advice.
    Thatís great news. Definitely continue the protocol. It takes time to rebuild bones.

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    Default Re: Help.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKay View Post
    Thank you.

    Update:

    Oogie is back to her normal self this morning. We will continue the MBS protocol. Thank You all for the fantastic advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Thatís great news. Definitely continue the protocol. It takes time to rebuild bones.

    She loves the Henry Blocks.
    Than you all very much.

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    HRT4SQRLS (07-12-2019)

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    Default Re: Help.

    Wonderful news.

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