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Thread: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

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    Default Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Hello friends. The triplets are doing pretty well, until today we noticed that Teak the male is not using his back legs like he should. He has also urinated on himself without moving, just laying in it. His poop is normal, yellow and hard like it should be. His urine output is normal as well. It is hard to tell if he has been attacked by one of his sisters with all of the fur but we do not think that is the case. His diet has been Hi Protein Henry's Blocks,Arugula, Bok Choy, Brussels Sprouts,Carrot pieces,and Kale stems w/leaves. His formula intake is around 18ml he does vary to the 20's and his last was 12ml. FV 20/50. He did have a poop issue a few days ago where it was white and soft but that did get resolved. Today I have added a part of an egg shell into the cage, got some Nappa Cabbage and Cilantro from the store that are higher in calcium. We are going to put him in a carrier by himself to monitor his food intake on top of a heating pad to stay warm. We do have the powdered calcium ready to sprinkle on his solids. From what I know of MBD this does not sound like it is that. His formula intake should keep that disorder away to my understanding. Is there something I could be missing or not thinking of? We have been really careful on not giving any fruits yet or nuts at all, keeping it to greens and staying away from Spinach. Thank you in advance guys.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    Hello friends. The triplets are doing pretty well, until today we noticed that Teak the male is not using his back legs like he should. He has also urinated on himself without moving, just laying in it. His poop is normal, yellow and hard like it should be. His urine output is normal as well. It is hard to tell if he has been attacked by one of his sisters with all of the fur but we do not think that is the case. His diet has been Hi Protein Henry's Blocks,Arugula, Bok Choy, Brussels Sprouts,Carrot pieces,and Kale stems w/leaves. His formula intake is around 18ml he does vary to the 20's and his last was 12ml. FV 20/50. He did have a poop issue a few days ago where it was white and soft but that did get resolved. Today I have added a part of an egg shell into the cage, got some Nappa Cabbage and Cilantro from the store that are higher in calcium. We are going to put him in a carrier by himself to monitor his food intake on top of a heating pad to stay warm. We do have the powdered calcium ready to sprinkle on his solids. From what I know of MBD this does not sound like it is that. His formula intake should keep that disorder away to my understanding. Is there something I could be missing or not thinking of? We have been really careful on not giving any fruits yet or nuts at all, keeping it to greens and staying away from Spinach. Thank you in advance guys.
    I actually want to start the MBD treatment with the Henry's calcium powder. My question is what is the initial dose? Is it 100mg? The sticky note does specify the following doses being 100mg per 5 times for 500mg total. Teak is not quite 12 weeks old though, his weight is around 330 grams, we will weigh them all tonight before their final feeding of the day. So his dose would only be 50mg since he is not 12 weeks? What dose do we start with??

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    Hello friends. The triplets are doing pretty well, until today we noticed that Teak the male is not using his back legs like he should. He has also urinated on himself without moving, just laying in it. His poop is normal, yellow and hard like it should be. His urine output is normal as well. It is hard to tell if he has been attacked by one of his sisters with all of the fur but we do not think that is the case. His diet has been Hi Protein Henry's Blocks,Arugula, Bok Choy, Brussels Sprouts,Carrot pieces,and Kale stems w/leaves. His formula intake is around 18ml he does vary to the 20's and his last was 12ml. FV 20/50. He did have a poop issue a few days ago where it was white and soft but that did get resolved. Today I have added a part of an egg shell into the cage, got some Nappa Cabbage and Cilantro from the store that are higher in calcium. We are going to put him in a carrier by himself to monitor his food intake on top of a heating pad to stay warm. We do have the powdered calcium ready to sprinkle on his solids. From what I know of MBD this does not sound like it is that. His formula intake should keep that disorder away to my understanding. Is there something I could be missing or not thinking of? We have been really careful on not giving any fruits yet or nuts at all, keeping it to greens and staying away from Spinach. Thank you in advance guys.
    Refresh my memory.
    How old is Teak now?
    Does he actually eat the Hi Protein Blocks?
    Did you sterilize the egg shells?
    Just looking at his diet, I too don't think it's
    MBD but we have to be on the safe side, so I'm
    glad you started the protocol.
    How tall is the cage they are currently in?
    Do they get out of the cage time?

    Do you have any Gabapentin?
    Do you have Metacam?
    Do you have Prednisone? (you cannot use Metacam and Prednisone together)

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Wednesday the 10th is nine weeks old.
    He has eaten the blocks, as far as how much recently not sure with his siblings in the same cage.
    Yes, sterilized the egg shells. Boiled water.
    36 inches tall is the cage, from Henry's site.
    They all get individual out time from the cage every day.
    I have some Metacam but that is all.
    He actually did come out of the pouch about 45 minutes after the first application of calcium. It looked like he was getting around much easier. It was about 1ml of the 1/8 tsp dry plus warmed water was his portion he took. He is not liking the formula right now but does drink water with no problem. So for now we are going to repeat the calcium in about four hours from the first dose. Formula first or calcium? He has to be hungry by now.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Update: He took about 6ml of formula first followed by the calcium dose mixed with water. Out of the 400mg powder mixed with the water he took 3/4 of the mixture, tried to make it syringe-able which made more volume. He followed up the calcium with several laps of water by itself. He did want the water more than the formula at this point. So is dehydration a concern and should we be maybe mixing the calcium with pedialyte? The follow up doses of calcium should be 100mg every 4 hours?

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    Update: He took about 6ml of formula first followed by the calcium dose mixed with water. Out of the 400mg powder mixed with the water he took 3/4 of the mixture, tried to make it syringe-able which made more volume. He followed up the calcium with several laps of water by itself. He did want the water more than the formula at this point. So is dehydration a concern and should we be maybe mixing the calcium with pedialyte? The follow up doses of calcium should be 100mg every 4 hours?

    Hydration is always a concern and water is the best hydration unless electrolytes are needed,
    if that were the case I'd use the homemade recipe over pedialyte.
    I would not mix the calcium with pedialyte.
    Step-N-Stone
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    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Can anyone tell me how long it could take to see results from the calcium? And how long should we do this for? He can move his legs and feet but using them for anything like hanging onto something not yet. He gripes when I mess with his knee area on both sides, can't find anything wrong just feeling around his back.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    Can anyone tell me how long it could take to see results from the calcium? And how long should we do this for? He can move his legs and feet but using them for anything like hanging onto something not yet. He gripes when I mess with his knee area on both sides, can't find anything wrong just feeling around his back.

    Generally speaking the younger they are the quicker the response. If this is MBD you will need to continue the MBD protocol for many weeks or longer.... having said that.

    As Nancy mentioned, this does not *seem* to be MBD, but continue the protocol because it cannot harm him and may save his life if it is MBD.

    Do you have a vet that can x-ray him for injuries?

    I suggest you get a weight on him in case he needs medication... the Metacam helps with pain and inflammation, but Prednisone is better if this is any sort of head or spinal injury (like from a fall perhaps).

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    yes to both. Exact weight last night was 342 grams.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    The biggest concern now is his refusal to drink any formula willingly. Is this normal for MBD is it is that ?

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    The biggest concern now is his refusal to drink any formula willingly. Is this normal for MBD is it is that ?

    Other than his not wanting formula, how is his appetite? Is he taking water?

    At his age (10 weeks) it is not abnormal to start to wean from formula, though he may be a bit younger end for weaning.

    Can you get in him for x-rays? I would have concern about this being an injury of some sort versus MBD (but do not stop the MBD protocol until / unless an injury is confirmed).

    Can you post a video link of him moving around, so we can see how much he is using... or not using.. those rear legs?

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post

    Other than his not wanting formula, how is his appetite? Is he taking water?

    At his age (10 weeks) it is not abnormal to start to wean from formula, though he may be a bit younger end for weaning.

    Can you get in him for x-rays? I would have concern about this being an injury of some sort versus MBD (but do not stop the MBD protocol until / unless an injury is confirmed).

    Can you post a video link of him moving around, so we can see how much he is using... or not using.. those rear legs?
    His appetite is null. We have put everything in front of him and he refuses. Strangely enough he did get back in the cage today and chew on the wood block. He is taking water more willingly from the water bottle with the ball in the tube. Pedialyte was something he was interested in last feeding, so for now we are going to give him some maybe mixed with the formula? https://youtu.be/oXl54MfdSaY

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    I actually did shoot a 17 second video of him walking today, but when I tried to post it to the thread it wouldn't let me. I even shortened it to 3 seconds and it still didn't work. Do I need to upload it somewhere to have a link to it? His appetite is null. We have put everything in front of him and he refuses. Strangely enough he did get back in the cage today and chew on the wood block. He is taking water more willingly from the water bottle with the ball in the tube. Pedialyte was something he was interested in last feeding, so for now we are going to give him some maybe mixed with the formula?
    Yes, you have to upload the video elsewhere (like YouTube) and post the link here on TSB.

    Never, ever, mix formula with pedialyte, it is contraindicated.

    Can you hear his breathing... is he "clicking" with each breath or do his lungs crackle similarly to they way rice crispies do when the milk is added? Is he lethargic?



    Last edited by Spanky; 07-09-2019 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Removed comment about AB's... got my threads mixed up?!?!

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Ok, I see the link to the video (was that there before? I may be losing my mind!).

    In this video, has he improved from his original condition or is this pretty much what was meant by not using his legs correctly? Still seems to be some of trauma or injury versus MDB IMO.... if you can get him to the vet tomorrow, that is the best option. Otherwise we might start considering starting Metacam unless you can find some prednisone?

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    He does not have any clicking going on. We did go to straight pedialyte for a few feeds a few hours apart all night and today. He did accept that to get him hydrated. We tried to work formula back in and he is unhappy with it again. The video is the same since he started that hobble yesterday, no improvement with the calcium. I am going to try and get him in for an xray tomorrow. Thought I had metacam but I do not.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Did end up finding the Metacam. It is 1.5mg/ml. His weight is 340 grams. The syringe in the box is by pounds. If someone could please send me the dose he needs would be greatly appreciated.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Will send a PM with dosing, give me a few minutes to write it up..

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallysdad View Post
    We are going to put him in a carrier by himself to monitor his food intake on top of a heating pad to stay warm.
    The heating pad should be only under part of the carrier... Teak will need to be able to move to an area without heat if he gets too uncomfortably warm.

    Have you continued the MBD protocol and seen any improvements?

    With Teak being separated you'll be able to determine if he is in fact eating his HHB's.... and the other healthy foods as well. It could be he was being bullied, which often the bully will deny the bullied squirrel(s) access to a good amount and mix of foods. So separation is a good way of assessing the individual squirrels diet / intake.

    Please give us an update on Teak...

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    The heating pad should be only under part of the carrier... Teak will need to be able to move to an area without heat if he gets too uncomfortably warm.

    Have you continued the MBD protocol and seen any improvements?

    With Teak being separated you'll be able to determine if he is in fact eating his HHB's.... and the other healthy foods as well. It could be he was being bullied, which often the bully will deny the bullied squirrel(s) access to a good amount and mix of foods. So separation is a good way of assessing the individual squirrels diet / intake.

    Please give us an update on Teak...
    Check on the heating pad. He chews on veggies mostly, shredding them, but does eat some. Blocks are kinda the same. His water intake is great and his formula has picked back up to where it was. We did have to go back to the mini miracle nipple. His latching onto the regular nipple is not happening like he had. The MBD protocol did not show any improvement for him. As of last night we have held off on that to help with his appetite, he does not take formula well with calcium powder in his stomach. We were told as long as he takes his formula that nutrients would not be a problem and he had taken formula fine until we saw this. Poor guys is eager to move and crawl around, we'll see what the xray says before we just let him go as he wants.

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    Default Re: Teak having movement problems, rear legs.

    Well good news is the xray was normal. Nothing showed up as a problem or there is no evidence of an injury. Shot of dexamethasone for inflammation to see if it helps. Said possibly could be neurological, if he had an event happen. But his motor skills are fine. He is not stretching out his legs or launching off of anything like his siblings. What I don't like is he no longer wants to latch onto the regular nipple
    He is eating ok now. Getting back to some solids. Plenty of water.

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