CR's LUNA TUNA NEEDS HELP

[RamaMama]

Thank you TubeDriver..... I usually NEED to give Luna one drop 2 to 3 X a day.... but on rare occasion only 1 time.
Just depends on how snotty her sinus is....
the Decon I use maybe once or twice a week if that......... I REALLY try to stay away from it unless she is seriously
packed. Does not happen often any more as long as I keep using the Saline. {hope this new one will not be too
strong. ... HOW WILL I KNOW - WHAT WILL BE THE SIGNS TO WATCH FOR ? ? ? }
Thanks again.

The CR version has a bit more sodium in it. As long as it does not irritate Luna, it should be fine (in fact it is probably better that the weaker USA version).

[TubeDriver]

Rosie,
The CR stuff at .09% is actually the normal isotonic strength saline and should be fine. They actually make stronger versions for muscus (3-7%) so what you have is NOT going to be too strong. The USA version is sort of weak and probably not as effective. I am pretty sure you will not have any issues.


Give Luna a hug from me, or at least a kind word or two.

Thank you TubeDriver..... I usually NEED to give Luna one drop 2 to 3 X a day.... but on rare occasion only 1 time.
Just depends on how snotty her sinus is....
the Decon I use maybe once or twice a week if that......... I REALLY try to stay away from it unless she is seriously
packed. Does not happen often any more as long as I keep using the Saline. {hope this new one will not be too
strong. ... HOW WILL I KNOW - WHAT WILL BE THE SIGNS TO WATCH FOR ? ? ? }
Thanks again.

[RamaMama]

Luna had a lot of mucus last night....... then she started bleeding from her nose, just drops,
not bad like Dude bled.

This morning when she began to snort out mucus it is still bloody.......... will saline help or make it bleed more.

I was thinking the salt would help heal even tho it may sting a bit......... but, don't want to do some thing stupid.

Internet info says it helps...... BUT, there are times when the Inter.... has given BAD or completely wrong info.
Thanks

[lukaslolamaus]

Poor Luna, I don't know the answer to your question about the saline drops would help or not.
I hope someone will have the answer for you

[HRT4SQRLS]

Rosie, I don’t think the saline would hurt her.

[Diggie's Friend]

Klebsiella is most susceptible to isothiocyanates

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/diet...sothiocyanates

See: Introduction, and Metabolism and Bioavailability

Combating Klebsiella with raw chopped broccoli florets, or steamed chopped for 5 minutes, releases the enzyme precursor to Isothiocyanates. Not boiled that destroys the enzyme that metabolizes into Isothiocyantes. Gut biotics may also able to metabolize the sulfur compounds in brassicas into Isothiocyanates.

For baby brassica leafy greens, chop and blanch 90 sec.

In short, if you want calcium from brassica vegetables you boil them, since raw they provide little bioavailable calcium. If you want to provide Isothiocyanates that combat Klebsiella, raw chopped raw, or chopped and steamed them 5 min. Using a strainer, place fresh chopped broccoli, and steam for 5 min, then drain.

Much like soy, Brassicas are also a double edged sword when it comes to cancers, for on one hand that combat most forms of cancers in rats, they also promote thyroid cancer with a high level of regular consumption of Thioreas the source of the precursor of Isothiocyanates.

In our present day, Brassica vegetables have been confirmed to have originated from one plant, Mustard, having been bred from the same plant, much like reducing the genetic pool to support breeds of dogs that take various forms, but are still dogs. Feeding this source not be daily when fed raw.

Use only the florets of broccoli, and cauliflower for chopped and steamed 5 min.

For boiling chopping (not fine), and boiling till tender, will increase the calcium bioavailability from this and other brassica stalked vegetable sources.

For baby brassica sources, chop and blanch using a spring tea strainer.

https://www.amazon.com/VAHDAM-Approv...ateway&sr=8-25

https://www.amazon.com/Teabox-Handle...ateway&sr=8-13

[Diggie's Friend]

Whether there is presently a sufficient amount of isothiocyanates being produced in the gut with all the AB that have been given towards combating this AB resistant bacteria is my concern for your squirrel.

Though for most squirrels not having the issue of battling this form of bacteria, boiling the stalked brassicas is the best option, since with pre/probiotic isothiocyanates would be produced, for yours I would recommend using the 5 min. steaming method for preparting broccoli florets to ensure that sufficientisothiocyanates are provided towards battling of this bad bacterial infection.

For other stalked vegetables, like cauliflower, boiling is fine as long as you provide the pre/probiotic support that promotes the production of isothiocyanates.

Continue to blanch cut up pieces of baby leafy greens for 90'sthat contain calcium to reduce the calcium anti nutrient (oxalates) they also contain. If more mature forms longer boiling is required short of turning the source to green glop.

[Trooper]

Coming from left field here, and since Klebsiella is a gram-negative bacteria that is affected by cephalosporins antibiotics of which cephalexin is one of them, it is also affected by Aminoglycosides which is a gram-negative specific antibiotic, like neomycin, gentamycin, tobramaycin and many others. Has Luna been given any true gram-negative AB?

Just my 2 cents.

Trooper's dad

[Diggie's Friend]

Please go back and look at what she has been given so far, as your input is valuable.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...66#post1292166

Be sure to enlarge the table and scroll down to see all of it as there is much noted as to being Resistant and Sensitive.

I posted this link as it is a paper on addressing AB resistant strains of bad bacteria using a multi approach. Perhaps that should be relooked at, since once a new AB is started it seems it begins to work, but then fails soon afterwards, kind of like a two legged stool it can't hold on its own.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...62#post1292262

Please look through my posts also; of note is that the name being used for this bacterial now isn't what it used to be.

Ratguide.com on what is used, one of which is one that hasn't been as yet tried. No one here knows what will work having tried a number of the main ones already.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...68#post1292268

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobi...bofloxacin.php

What stands out on overcoming these resistant bacterial strains, is that the gut flora plays a vital roll in supporting success. I would load on the probiotic and get her own immune system up and going.


Why I looked into natural sources was for reason that so far no AB has shown it can knock this bacteria beast.

[Trooper]

Hi Diggie's friend; thank you for the links which unfortunately I haven't been able to read all yet. Just to make sure I understand correctly: has Luna been diagnosed with Klebsiella ornithinolytica or another strain, and has it been diagnosed by laboratory culture?

Thanks,

Trooper's dad

[Diggie's Friend]

It was K.o. I assume it was cultured, yet you would have to ask Rama Mama to confirm that with her.

Interestingly, K.o is noted to be very much like R.o that it is often mistaken for in diagnosis.

This is why when I found the link with the data on Resistant and Sensitive AB's for R.o, that I posted it here.

Beyond the files, I have little I can share on AB's, for I am not well studied in them, nor do dosing as rehabbers on the board do.

[RamaMama]

Hi - Thanks for the posts and info.

Luna was tested several times, many times and it did show KO. We used the appropriate AB's and as mentioned
it works for a short time, then the KO returns.
IF we keep giving her the AB's there is concern the infection will become resistant and like little Dude's turn into
an un-treatable Staff Infection. As long as she stays on an even keel I will just keep giving her the saline.

These infections are being repeatedly created by the "O" tumor which is destroying the mucus membranes of her
sinus......... NO, x-rays where not taken due to there being NO available facilities in our area. ALL symptoms point
to "O".

I have tried offering steamed or boiled cauliflower and broccoli......... NOPE refuses to touch it. Only raw is accepted
when she FEELS like it.

BUT, I will try again. Maybe she will change her mind. Wondering what I could do to entice her to eat it.... maybe
mush it and add "something" .... coconut oil.... ??? or a tad of cinnamon sugar ? ? ?

She will eat zapallo squash { zah pie oh } raw, looks like a zucchini squash, and some times cilantro raw...... if I stream
or boil...... forget it.

I can try again though........

She is doing better by my giving her the saline..... some days better than others, but she is eating fairly well and active,
If I could remember who the first person was who told me to try it I would give them a BIG Internet hug. It has really made a huge difference in her comfort zone and daily living. I know it is not a cure........ but it makes living worthwhile
at the present.

Thanks to every one who is offering guidance and help, it means a lot to us here in backward CR.

[Diggie's Friend]

For this issue, just chop raw broccoli and cauliflower florets and Kale to feed her; they will help to counter this bacteria.

Include probiotic with oatmeal (prebiotic) in the same meal.

The virgin coconut oil is fine to add to any meal; it supports the uptake of calcium into the bloodstream.

I realize that you haven't given the Pycnogenol in awhile. I would try to get that into her, it has so may healing properties that can help her.

[RamaMama]

I noticed that Luna was scratching at her ears, one much more than the other, for several days..... now it is very bad and she has been scratching almost non-stop for part of this afternoon. One now is beginning to bleed a tiny bit. I do not need for this to turn into an infection..... don't know if it is dry ears, scabies, mites... ? ? ? ? or any other possible bug - I tried to look with a magnifying glass.... HA HAA HAAA .... all I could see was what POSSIBLY looks like teeny tiny scaly flakes..... but not certain.

I called the vet here to find out if she sells any kind of pet ear wash..... since I do not know exactly what is
wrong....
Vet has a product which IF..... BIG IF....... I understood her is Salicylic acid and Boric acid, and maybe some
thing else I could not understand. May have to go there tomorrow and SEE the bottle.

BUT, in the mean time what type of ear drops {include drug names in the drops} WOULD be recommended IF I can find any........ other than what the vet offered. < > AND < > what do I REALLY NEED to stay away from ? ? ? ?
Thanks

[Diggie's Friend]

You can use a drop of vegetable glycerine into each ear and squish it around; then clean it out with a cue tip.

Ivermectin is used to treat Scarcopic mange mites. I don't do dosing.

Boric acid and salicylic acid to my understanding should not be used for a squirrel; I would ask TubeDriver about these to make sure.

[TubeDriver]

Are Luna's teeth ok? Sometimes there are tooth issues, a squirrel can be seen scratching at it's ears, head area.

I am really not sure about a topical solution using borax. There is a drug called MalAcetic that contains acetic acid and boric acid (borox). I don't know how to dose for squirrels and don't know if it is safe? It comes in a shampoo or wipes and can be used in the ear canals of dogs and cats. You do NOT want Luna to lick at it because it is somewhat toxic.

You might try some hydrogen peroxide drops in her ears?

If you think she has ear mites, kitten revolution (selamectin) or ivermectin would help. We can help with dosing if you get these. Revolution is probably safer.

[RamaMama]

Stosh & I checked Luna's mouth this afternoon....... all looks good.

We had to 'order' the kitten revolution. It is supposed to arrive Friday....... we shall see....

in the meantime.....

I am wondering if she may have a fungus....... I have it 'on' my ears and have
been scratching for weeks, maybe she caught it from me.

Have external fungal cream --- I will put a tiny bit on her ears.....
her ears look dry, white scaly.

? ? ? hoping this will be the cure - any thoughts ?

[Diggie's Friend]

If there is an infection Hydrogen peroxide is going to hurt; dilute the HP with distilled water.

Don't soak the cue-tip in HP so that it drips, as you don't want her to lick her fur to clean it off

Our vet said pure vegetable glycerin (not petroleum based glycerin) will help to clean and moisturize the inside the outer ear.

[RamaMama]

If there is an infection Hydrogen peroxide is going to hurt; dilute the HP with distilled water.

Don't soak the cue-tip in HP so that it drips, as you don't want her to lick her fur to clean it off

Our vet said pure vegetable glycerin (not petroleum based glycerin) will help to clean and moisturize the inside the outer ear.

I will have to see if Stosh can find any distilled water here, never looked, also, their HP is NOT like
what we get in the US. I have some, but it has been around awhile.... but even new it does not
phizzz like what is available in the states. Don't know if it is diluted or just different... no clue

He did ask the pharms here, it appears they do not have vegetable glycerin. { or they did not understand }
I remember using that years ago.... seems it almost had a sweet taste.... { just a kid who wanted to taste test }
IF we get to go to Liberia we will check there too. Being a little bigger they might have some thing that is not
in little Coco.
Just so we can be CERTAIN that we are getting the right product....... and considering that our broken Spanish and their broken or no English may be misunderstood "Lost in Translation"....... is there any way to know for sure that we are getting the CORRECT glycerin ? ? ? Maybe sounds like a dumb question but....... you have no idea how nuts it can be here trying to get the right stuff.

[TubeDriver]

When you get the kitten Revolution, there are two ways people dose it. You can give a single, small drop orally or you can place a single drop on the back of the neck, on the skin. Repeat in 10-12 days.

It is possible she got the fungus from you. What is the name of the med you are using to treat this?

Stosh & I checked Luna's mouth this afternoon....... all looks good.

We had to 'order' the kitten revolution. It is supposed to arrive Friday....... we shall see....

in the meantime.....

I am wondering if she may have a fungus....... I have it 'on' my ears and have
been scratching for weeks, maybe she caught it from me.

Have external fungal cream --- I will put a tiny bit on her ears.....
her ears look dry, white scaly.

? ? ? hoping this will be the cure - any thoughts ?