I did feed him yogurt this morning, I will grind up a block and mix it with the yogurt.
As for the maple sugar when i take him to the vet, should I mix it with water?
I did feed him yogurt this morning, I will grind up a block and mix it with the yogurt.
As for the maple sugar when i take him to the vet, should I mix it with water?
Sorry, that was supposed to be maple syrup.
JMF2323 (07-17-2018)
Got it, I will take some with me to the vet.
Diggie's Friend (07-16-2018)
So, we just got back from the vet, he has MBD. The reason he is not using his forearms is that one of them is cracked and the other is a little bent. The vet says that I have to get him to eat dark green leafy vegetables and that I should start feeding him crickets. He did some xrays and showed me the crack and how the other forearm is bent. He also suggested I get a light for him.
SophieSquirrel (07-17-2018)
OK, so how did the vet determine he has MBD? Did he state the Xrays show low bone density? Did the vet do a blood panel? It's certainly possible and even likely. I see you use blocks so I assume you know of the Henry's diet. What bothers me is a vet suggesting that treatment for MBD is "dark leafy greens" / crickets and not calcium carbonate. I would start on the MBD protocol, follow the Henrys diet, restrict movement due to the fracture (smaller cage) and go to a vet specialist for another opinion including blood panel. Not many can do this properly on a squirrel. Also you don't want a high intensity UV B reptile bulb shining on his eyes. A UV B fluorescent tube high above his cages is safer.
Post photos of your squirrel, his cage, digital Xrays (if you have them), and list his complete diet you have been feeding him to date.
Recommended Vets
Dr Susan Kellerher Deerfield Beach, FL: http://exoticanimalcare.com/
Dr. Santiago Diaz Orlando, FL: https://www.orlandoexoticveterinarian.com/
I am sure you have seen these but I am going to post them anyway
MBD: https://www.henryspets.com/mbd/
MBD Protocol: https://www.henryspets.com/emergency-treatment-for-mbd/
Henry's Diet: https://www.henryspets.com/healthy-d...pet-squirrels/
Calcium Carbonate: https://www.henryspets.com/calcium-c...-powder-100-g/
Diggie's Friend (07-17-2018), JMF2323 (07-17-2018)
SS is spot on about the calcium. I’m surprised the vet didn’t give you liquid calcium gluconate to administer orally. For a flyer maintenance dosing would only be a drop or two. You should begin the MBD protocol with tums calcium or calcium carbonate....no vitamin D included in the calcium.
Diggie's Friend (07-17-2018), JMF2323 (07-17-2018), SophieSquirrel (07-17-2018)
Correction on my last post
I missed the part about this being a flyer - I was assuming it was a gray. I have no flyer experience only Grays/Foxes.
Can anyone with flyer knowledge comment on the MBD protocol and proper diet to prevent MBD?
I assume crickets are a regular part of a flyers diet? I would not go to another vet until some flyer PPL comment on your vet visit.
JMF2323 (07-17-2018)
I will start the MBD protocal today as soon as i get home from work. The vet did give him a shot of Calcium. I also asked him about supplementing him with Calcium Carbonate, but he told me that it was not necessary, that he needs a balanced diet. He also told me to feed him crickets as they need the hard exoskeleton that crickets have.
I want to thank everyone for the help and advice!!!
Mel1959 (07-17-2018), SophieSquirrel (07-17-2018)
Perhaps in this species it hits in the upper body first due to movement being more strongly dependent on this area than in diurnal tree squirrel species?
As for green vegetables, do feed them, but boil or blanch them, for otherwise fed otherwise raw the calcium in them will be lost to the higher ratio of oxalic acid to calcium that they contain. I realize that this isn't what most vets are aware of, yet it has long been established knowledge by the laboratory rat research community all the way back to 1939 when Lohman did a study into the oxalate values of various vegetables and fruits and included a number of studies in rats that bore out the same conclusion that other researcher would conclude in years to come. This more recent study also found that some greens, like Turnip greens provide calcium available to the body, whereas others like spinaches and those plants related to them, don't. Out of the cornucopia of plant food sources there is in this key regard much variety; knowing which sources provide calcium to the body, not just contain high levels of it is needful to provide calcium in the diet of these animals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3681480
Bok Choy
Turnip leaves
Kales.
Dandelion leaves
These sources are higher in calcium than oxalates, for this reason they provide bioavailable calcium to the body of mammals. One note on these sources, as all belong to the Brassica family, having originated from one plant according to resent research. Brassicas are high in goitrogrens that lower the function of the thyroid gland that is responsible for supporting D3 the body produces that well absorption of nutrients from the intestines into the bloodstream depends upon. For this reason boiling these sources short term is recommended to deactivate the goitrogens that they contain.
Another study found that the immature leaves of various leafy greens contained low to nil oxalates. (see link below)
As you can see from the (exerpt) chart from the study in leafy greens, not all greens are created equal, a some are extremely high in the calcium anti nutrient oxalates. Others including those noted here are low in immature form, but not in mature form. When oxalic acid is high and then higher in oxalic acid than calcium, the source will provide little to no calcium once it has been digested, for upon digestion the calcium and oxalic acid in the leaves that are separated come together and readily bond with one another in the intestines and also in the bloodstream after absorption. These high sources of oxalic acid are known to lower calcium in other foods including that contained in dairy and other foods digested with these greens in a meal.
Immature (baby) leaves of the following also are higher in calcium than oxalates, yet once they mature the content changes from an increase in oxalic acid that makes the calcium they contain though higher in Ca:P non bioavailable. Feeding baby greens of the following not including spinaches and those plants related to spinaches, that though high in calcium content, have a far higher counterbalance of oxalic acid, which leaves 'nil' levels of calcium once they are digested.
These sources in immature form (baby leaves) contain higher calcium and low to nil levels of oxalates.
Baby lettuces
Baby chicory leaves
Baby arugula
Baby watercress
Baby escarole
Blanching for 1 to 1 1/2 min. to reduce bacteria, destroy potential parasites, improve digestibility, and lower pH, is recommended.
Don't forget dairy, Goats milk or goat kefir ever better is a high source of calcium that is very bioavailable. Kefir has the benefit of being the most high in calcium, that is most digestible. Redwood Hills Farms carries goat kefir.
JMF2323 (07-17-2018), SophieSquirrel (07-17-2018)
I will give Leigh at Henry's a call on my lunch break for the MBD. I will also move him into an aquarium with a screen lid that way he doesn't climb in his cage, I tried to move him to the bottom of his cage but he tries to climb to the top. I will also start to boil his green vegetables, hopefully he will like them boiled as he normally hates them. It really is a surprise that he has MBD as he does eat his Henry's Hi- Protein blocks.
Diggie's Friend (07-22-2018)
But another question is how many nuts does he eat per day?
The portions of calcium in the MBD protocol are scaled back for a flyer.
JMF2323 (07-17-2018)
I only give him 2-3 nuts per week and one little piece of fruit per day. I always have fresh veggies for him and Henry's blocks. I requested copies of the x-rays, as soon as I get them i will post them.
It is interesting with the nocturnal squirrel species that they don't get much D3 from the sun. What they get is from the foods they eat that contain D2, the most of which is found in the non toxic lichens, and mushrooms they are known to consume as a regular part of their diets. The flyers and red squirrels will carry mushrooms into the tree canopy to dry in order to preserve this food source that would otherwise quickly decay. Exposed to the sunlight mushrooms may increase in the D2 they contain. Vitamin D2 is available online and is the safer source of vitamin D. D is actually a hormone the body produces with the aid of ultraviolet light that transforms the compound in sebum into D3.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d2-vs-d3
As for calcium MBD treatment and D3, I agree it would overtop calcium absorption at the higher level of calcium consumption. Once the treatment is completed D2 at least be added to the diet in support of maintenance of healthy bones.
D3 is included in my diet just like the rodent block contains at the same level; no issues for MBD, or arthritis have occurred to date with the gray squirrel now 9 1/2 that has been given the D3 for 6 1/2 years.
Recently a newly discovered source of D3 confirmed in a study and by a third party laboratory has found a lichen that produces Vitamin D3. I'm presently trying to obtain a source that can be reduced sufficiently to be used as a supplement in the diet of tree squirrels. Its goes under the name of, "Vitashine".
These are the nuts I feed him
Almonds
Hazelnuts
Walnuts
Pecan- maybe 2 per month
Me too. I prefer almonds but will give the others occasionally. Rarely walnuts.
It wasn't calcitonin perhaps was it?
Another possible problem may be the parathyroid; in feeding raw broccoli this can be a problem, as of all the sources this one is perhaps the worst, raw that is. Goitrogens impair the function of the parathyroid gland is why. Low thyroid means low uptake of minerals chiefly calcium. This is why boiling these sources that deactivates most all of the goitrogens is needful. Most all for reason that broccoli, which contains a number of goitrogenic compounds that boiling deactivates, yet contains one that isn't deactivated by boiling, which makes this source potentially problematic to include in rodent diets more than once a week.