Question about combining to pairs

[Snicker Bar]

I currently have two ( a male and female ) Greys, approx. 8-9 weeks old ,“Penelope” and her “Buddy”. One of my staff members recently attended a class on rehabbing basics , and came back from school with two Greys ( also a M and F). Hers are a tad younger, maybe by 2 or 3 weeks. I was wondering, if there is a magic cut off age that two groups could be safely combined; and if could be, would this improve their chances of a successful release?
Also, I have to confess.. The last 6 days have been very convicting. After the loss (escape) of my little male Flyer ( “Tiny”), the worry of if he’s alive , the stress of searching for him, and knowing the separation anxiety I’m sure this has caused his cage friend “ Teenie”, I honestly don’t think I can go through all this again with two who are meant to escape ( be released). The thought of all the what if’s; what if one shows up to the PRC for night, and one doesn’t . What if one spooks, and gets lost from her buddy , what if both get lost?? Etc. etc. I think this lost Flyer has revealed I’m just not cut out for this I need to just stick to the blind, brain damaged, lame etc; the ones that need help, possibly a forever home (Snickers, Doodles, Dandies, and now, my lonely little Flyer girl Teenie, no thanks to me ) The healthy ones need to be turned over to a real rehabber, with a tougher heart than mine .
So was thinking, maybe I could co op with my young kennel girl; buy the blocks, have husband build a proper PRC cage, make the boo balls etc.; and combine these four if possible, and their release process over to my ambitious to learn, young employee ( with my help from a distance, if makes sense?) Otherwise, I may need to consider turning these two back over to my local rehabber; or if there is a TSB near NE MS, will be glad to transfer them to a tougher person than me. I’ve grown attached already; should have known, after getting heart stolen by my other NR’s. And sadly the Flyers, that were possibly releasable, had I not been so interactive with them over the winter... now it’s too late for Teenie. Praying her lost friend, by a miracle, survived his accidental hard release . But I have minimized handling these two, so they wouldn’t get too tame . They are now nearly weaned. Any thoughts welcome. Had no idea how tough your jobs are; maybe this is beginners wimp syndrome?? I don’t know. I was hoping to go further and take classes, get licensed, have a retirement mission. But “Tiny’s” disappearance has made me reconsider

[SophieSquirrel]

I need to just stick to the blind, brain damaged, lame etc; the ones that need help, possibly a forever home

The healthy ones need to be turned over to a real rehabber, with a tougher heart than mine .

I may need to consider turning these two back over to my local rehabber; or if there is a TSB near NE MS, will be glad to transfer them to a tougher person than me. I’ve grown attached already; should have known, after getting heart stolen by my other NR’s.

I don’t know. I was hoping to go further and take classes, get licensed, have a retirement mission. But “Tiny’s” disappearance has made me reconsider

I have been doing this for many years and have settled on becoming a forever home for a limited number of injured NR's with Neuro, Para and Mals Etc. I currently have 7 and all are Grays. I do take in babies, triage and raise until another rehabber is available to take them to release. I don't do releases. I currently have 4 five week olds that I am raising temporarily. I don't know the laws in your state but in FL if you hold a license you technically cannot have NR's. Most rehabbers here do keep them but then again FL is not strict. Some states F&W ofc's with guns and handcuffs can come into your home whenever they want and inspect if you have a license. In FL you can sub-rehab (vol) under another's license and keep your lawfully acquired NR's as "pets" (I hate that term). F&W does not ever "inspect" unless you give them a reason (complaints etc), or you are raising raccoons or other rabies vectors. Squirrels are low on the list of priorities here.

Just a suggestion... Keep NR's who can't make it and do limited rehabbing of releasables until you can find a rehabber or another volunteer with "room at the inn". I only do Grays & Foxes so I am not all over the place with too many animals having different needs. Mommas Munchkins (you can find her posts on here) is a shining example of a dedicated volunteer you can find in your state to help finish the release process. Never ask F&W anything so as not to draw attention to yourself, just do your own research regarding the laws surrounding sub-rehabbing in your state.

[Snicker Bar]

This is how I feel , exactly. I need to give the special needs ones the attention they need, and I have been drained with worry for this one MIA. I can’t handle it I have many sad days of loss at work, but it’s different; there’s a peace of closure. With this, I have no closure on his fate.

My local rehabber considers me a sort of, “sub permittee “ as she calls it. The ones I have ,she’s brought me ( all except Snickers, which I did try to turn over, but was told she would have to be “destroyed “) She has graciously allowed me to continue to medically treat them and keep under “observation “... she has a soft heart, and hates to have one put down that could have a happy , quality of life .

I guess I will contact her first thing; about turning these over. Just curious about thoughts here (TSB) on combining two pairs, of cage is large enough; is this safe? I could help provide supplies, maybe “visit”; still be involved. But if it’s risky, for fighting /killing each other, will go a different route. Either with her or if a member here isn’t too far away.

[Mel1959]

I’ve never combined litters, so I’m sorry I’m not much help. I have read about folks that have been successful but it really depends on the personality of each squirrel... I believe I heard that the cut off age to be able to combine is 9 weeks, if that helps.

[Snicker Bar]

Ok , definitely won’t risk it. Thanks

[Jen413]

When Vin was about 9 weeks old (I believe) I got another 9 week old Singleton. He was chattery and always acted aggressive toward my easy going, laid back Vin. I put their cages side by side for a couple weeks (it was actually two cages joined together with one divider between) and then I was able to join them. They have been caged together for several months now and are awaiting release. This is the very first “sibling group”, if you want to call them, that I have ever had. Up until them it’s only been Singleton’s for me. So it isn’t impossible.

[Snicker Bar]

Maybe that could be tried, at least? Like I said , I’d like to be of some help ; they have been a joy . I’ve watched Penelope bloom from a dried out husk, to a tubby . Scrawny little Buddy is also filling out, finally. And up until this, I was excited about learning more, taking in more in the future. But I think I’m better suited to be like Sophie’s (dad?) ; a haven for misfits of sorts . I’m too wimpy for this release stuff . The thougnt of another MIA, or an empty nest box at night, Day 1 of release; the not knowing if one/both are lost, ok... I never really considered all that until now . That’s a very real scenario that could happen on open the hatch day. Maybe I can tough it out, with the help of this junior rehabber in progress. Or, like said, if there’s an experienced, trusted person here , my husband said he would make the drive within couple hundred miles. My buddy/local rehabber here would gladly take it from here if I asked; but last I checked , she’s got a load of critters.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Marie, I can see there is a lot more to your question than whether groups can be combined. I think we might be a lot alike. I also wonder if everyone that rehabs wild animals has the same emotions. There is a part of me that is filled with joy and delight as I see them discover their world for the first time. Some leave the RC with caution and you can watch them blossom as those instincts kick in. Others leave the RC and go to the highest limb of the tallest tree. My heart skips a beat but seeing their joy brings me joy. Some groups will stay together. Others launch off as individuals almost immediately. I'll never forget releasing my first pinky Dixie. She wandered around the back patio for an hour. I turned my back and she was gone. Disappeared! For NINE days! My mind had her killed by a hawk on the first day of freedom. I agonized. Dixie was released with a disabled girl that had recovered. They were inseparable. They needed each other. When Dixie was removed from the bin for feeding, Stevie would grab her and hold onto her so that they wouldn't be separated. How could Dixie leave her friend? Clearly she had not survived or she would be there.

And then the night comes. Some will return to the RC and I have peace knowing they are safe. Others never return to the RC and I lay in bed and wonder... Are they safe? Did they survive the first day? Are they hungry? Where are they sleeping? I am filled with anguish.

The next day comes and most will reappear. They clearly remember where food comes from. I am filled with joy as my friends return and play in the yard. And then I see the hawk and I am filled with fear. How can I protect them? Weeks pass and some are still in the yard. Others have disappeared. Did they move? The hawk?

Weeks will pass and Dixie returns. She has been free for 2 years. We still have a special relationship after all this time. She climbs onto my shoulder. I take her inside to get nuts. We go back outside and she eats at least 10 nuts sitting on my shoulder. The other releases gather around my feet. Of course, they too have all the nuts they can eat. Dixie sees them and charges down my body after them and growls to run them away. She returns to my shoulder. She eats her fill and jumps to a tree and disappears again. For a day? See you tomorrow Dixie. For a week? For a month? Will today be the last time I see her? Then a squirrel jumps on me and I wonder, Who are you? I look around and see the familiar notched ear and hear the purr that I remember so well. It's Susie, my first release. My special friend. She has been free for 5 years. She has had her own babies but she still remembers me. She too, eats nuts on my shoulder and she too, disappears. I might see her next week or literally many months pass before I see her again. Will I ever see her again?

Did I mention the road? Once upon a time I lived in the country. And then they came. And they came. They sought what I had .... open space, nature, peace and quiet. By their coming they destroyed what I had. They fight against development. Leave the cow pasture alone they say, while never acknowledging that where they sit, cattle once roamed. My friends aren't safe anymore. They can safely go north or south or east but to go west is certain death. Too many times I have waited for the passing cars to leave so that I can retrieve a friend from the road. I agonize. I grieve every time. My little cemetery has too many. I can't release at my home any longer. I tell myself that I can put release cages much further from the road. My mom owns 44 acres behind my house.

Why did I tell you this? Rehabbing does take a lot of courage. It has great joys and heartbreaks as well. I suspect that the same desires that drove you to become a veterinarian causes many rehabbers to help wildlife. Will I do it again? Probably yes. Will I release again? Probably but hopefully not near my home. There will never be any guarantees. Many, we will never know their fate. Some we will know all too well their fate and we will grieve. Is it worth it? A thousand times Yes! Someone has to care. I care.

We all have to decide if it's something that we want to do. If the answer is yes, we decide where we fit. Rehabbing, releasing, providing a home for non-releases? Providing a home for NR's is equally as important as raising healthy babies. Releasing for those that have no property is important. Saving babies is important. Will I continue? My life would be easier if I didn't.
My enjoyment is a lot of work but it also feeds my soul.
A lot to consider. We've all been there.

[Snicker Bar]

Dang, stupid hormones, that made me tear up ! I definitely have to reconsider at least maybe for now. I feel good about the progress we’ve made; a good head start, but I’ll be starting a replacement / rehabber search today. My kennel girl is still so early in her training, idk. I don’t want to “boss” over her, away from home lol. I’ll see if she’s willing ( school, her own farm, job); I’m thinking I’d prefer someone that knows what they’re doing . I will check with the person Sophie’s Dad mentioned. Or any others recommended. And Jon ( husband)!even extended the driving offer up to 300 miles, bless him . He feels responsible for not seeing that little gap Tiny squeezed through. God bless that man , he’s been a good sport through this change of life ( with squirrels, and mid life hormones ...)

All those scenarios ( except for road- I hate those people who took that land from your family!) are exactly what I’ve dealt with the last week. I can’t handle it ; I guess that’s a hard lesson learned. I’ll stick to helping other ways; donate medicines , supplies, triage, take a picture, then hand over to a tougher spirit. I like to follow up; do rechecks, call backs, etc. on our patients. With Tiny ( and now, realize will be with all releases ) there is no guarantee for a follow up. No guarantee for an answer to a call back. The only answer I’ve had, is a damn bird in the barn last Sunday night.. PERFECTLY replicated ( I guess it memorized the sound from my stupid phone, night after night walking the yard with u tube) a Flyer’s chirp. It lead me up into the hay loft, then back down the ladder, back of barn, so close, where is he?? And there it was. . An evil , dirty bird; laughing and flicking its tail at me! At night, in the dark! What kind of wicked bird does that at night ? Ugh. Cussed on a Sunday night after church

Thanks as always for thoughts . I truly have a new perspective , on how tough your jobs with wildlife are. I don’t think ( at least around here) our rehabbers get the praise , and respect they deserve . As for me, I’m humbled. Have to admire you guys/gals; but will cheer from the sidelines from now on, when comes to releasing.

[Jen413]

I absolutely love your heart Hrt!! It shows so loudly in that post!!

I agree it is agonizing sometimes. But it is also one of the most rewarding experiences. I'm not very experienced in the scheme of things when you look at those I'm surrounded by on this amazing board. I come from a line of relatives before me that have raised squirrels. I can remember as a child sitting at my grandparents kitchen table and watching their squirrel. I was amazed and mesmerised by her. Same at my aunts house. When I was 12 my grandfather gave me a baby flyer after he was weaned. The only one I've ever been blessed with. His name was Chico. I loved him like nothing I'd ever loved before. Of course at 12 my mom played a huge part in helping care for him, but he was my very best friend and we spent endless amounts of time together. When I was about 18/19 I helped raise my very first babies with my mom.

When I was 21 and pregnant with my first child I raised my very own baby for the first time. I over wintered her so she was with me for several months. Even after release she returned and would pace the length of the sliding glass door until I let her in. She would curl up in my shirt and take a nap before going back to her RC. She was about a year old by then. She returned one day with an injured hand so she was once again closed into the cage to recover and allow me to observe her. Over time she grew wilder until I could no longer tell my precious baby apart from all of the others that came to eat in my yard.

Five years later I raised my second baby. Once he was released he never returned. He too was an over winter and by the time I opened that door he was so ready to go he never looked back. Still to this day I worry about what happened to him. Did he make it through the day and was just so happy to be free that he didn't want to come back? Did he not make it through the day? It still bothers me.

I had four more over the next few years. Two passed very quickly after I received them following a bad storm. Two I turned over to Mountain Mama who I found here on this board because my kids were at the age that I knew I couldn't raise them. One was a pinky who passed and one was a few weeks old and was later released.

10 years later Sammy fell into my life. I planned to release him before realizing he would be NR. He is my very first NR other than my flyer when I was 12. Now I have the wild boys who are getting ready to go outside and sweet little Sadie that will eventually be released. The best word I can use to describe this experience of rehabbing is bittersweet because it is. You spend all that time and love raising them so that they can go out and do what they were meant to do. BE who they were meant to BE but almost weren't. It is so rewarding to see them get the chance to live the life they almost never got. I truly feel in my heart that for a healthy squirrel ONE day in the trees is better than a life spent in a cage. Of course there will always be the rare exception.

Please don't think that all releases will make you feel like what happened with you feel about Tiny escaping. That wasn't planned. You weren't prepared for that. You didn't get to say goodbye! A planned release, while the worry is still present, is completely different. You got no joy from Tiny's escape. You will with planned release. The best advice I can give is listen to your heart. Only you know what your heart can handle.

[island rehabber]

wow.

Jen413 and HRT4SQRLS

You both wrote such incredibly perfect essays here I feel as if we should make them Sticky's....required reading for anyone releasing a squirrel or even thinking about rehabbing them. Every single word here is so true, and every type of release mentioned is something I have experienced as well. Thank you for acknowledging those who release for others; it is something I do often, and especially in this NYC area, a release site is worth everything in the world.

One thing I always try to remember during those bad times when I don't know what has happened to a recent release, or even when I pretty much know but hate facing it: with these squirrels who come into our hands, whether as day-old pinkies or adult injureds, the default was DEATH. Without us, they were certainly dead. WE stepped in, WE changed that course of events. Whether or not their lives after rehab were a day in the trees, or years in the backyard -- WE made the difference. That's what keeps me going, friends.

[Snicker Bar]

PLEASE make them stickies! I had no idea; it’s like planning to lose your dog or cat, in a forest ... But so well said, “The default was death.” I have said that many times in other situations. It’s very humbling when you are the person that needs to be reminded of your own words !

But I do think it would be very helpful for beginners, or first time atemptees.. We went through these “be prepared to be hurt” classes with DHS. Same thing. Said I could handle it . But then, that beautiful, blue eyed little girl with a pacifier came up the driveway... We toughed it out, but many grey hairs later ( and by a miricle we were able to adopt) we let our licenses for foster care go. The reunification to the forest plan is nothing compared to what that was like (I call it my three year pregnancy child) , but for folks who love animals like children, it could be wise to read those summaries I’m better for adoption scenarios, know that now.

Ms. Jen I sent you a PM, thank you for help

[SophieSquirrel]

Did I mention the road? Once upon a time I lived in the country. And then they came. And they came. They sought what I had .... open space, nature, peace and quiet. By their coming they destroyed what I had. They fight against development. Leave the cow pasture alone they say, while never acknowledging that where they sit, cattle once roamed. My friends aren't safe anymore. They can safely go north or south or east but to go west is certain death. Too many times I have waited for the passing cars to leave so that I can retrieve a friend from the road. I agonize. I grieve every time. My little cemetery has too many. I can't release at my home any longer. I tell myself that I can put release cages much further from the road.

I agree 100% with IR that Jen's and HRT4's essays are moving and inspirational. Unfortunately the scene HRT4 describes is being repeated everywhere, "They" are not seeking "open space, nature, peace and quiet" that you hold so dear. The goal with most of the suburbanite arrivals is greed, destruction and packing their shiny new home full of stuff from China. They run from the burbs in New Jersey etc b/c they have made life there unbearable, but then strive to make their new home "just like where they came from". Went through that in Vermont and had to leave because it got so unbearable. Ben and Jerrys went from a cool gas station to a corporate store. Remember Gladys Sharp the "President" of the Homeowners Association in "Over the Hedge" <movie>? That character says it all.

Like IR said the "default is death" and that's one reason why we do it. Some are comfortable doing pinkies through release while others can't bear the thought of letting their baby's go in the dangerous wild. Even if you do initial rehab and pass along to a release person you played an important part in saving a little life. As I have said many times most squirrels belong in the wild but some cannot make it and need a forever home filled with love and care. I have no unhappy pacing NR's in my family. The default <wild> in their case IS death. As I write this Winston is curled up on my shoulder all fat and sassy. If he was released his mals would end his life within months.

S.B. - I think you should keep rehabbing and work with the rehabber friend to do the release part. The baby feeding part is the most time consuming and that will be a huge relief for the rehabber. In return your rehabber will eventually hand you a para or neuro that will need your forever care.

[Jen413]

these squirrels who come into our hands, whether as day-old pinkies or adult injureds, the default was DEATH. Without us, they were certainly dead. WE stepped in, WE changed that course of events. Whether or not their lives after rehab were a day in the trees, or years in the backyard -- WE made the difference. That's what keeps me going, friends.

AMEN!!!! We gave them the life they were supposed to have, but almost didn't. A day or years, giving them their freedom always makes me think they must feel very "it is well with my soul" inside on the day of their release.

[Snicker Bar]

Will do! These two are nearly weaned; twice a day now, and eating solids. Thanks for all you do for your special needs friends. ; that’s as admirable as the tough folks that release from start to finish. Our farm is like the island for misfit toys ( three legged dog, diabetic dog, squirrels with issues) And the clinic... had “Swiffer the Cat” for 11ish years- no back legs. Had a flat bed trailer lol with rotary wheels- could race around the building as fast as any cat. And Sprocket, my ( gone to the bridge) puppy in K9 cart. And now “Kickstand” ( post fan belt donation kitty) ; a 2 and 1/2 legged kitty .





This is how she sleeps! Like a drunk on street corner lol

[HRT4SQRLS]

I had no idea; it’s like planning to lose your dog or cat, in a forest ...

Yes, I guess it is. That's a good analogy.

The only answer I’ve had, is a damn bird in the barn last Sunday night.. PERFECTLY replicated ( I guess it memorized the sound from my stupid phone, night after night walking the yard with u tube) a Flyer’s chirp. It lead me up into the hay loft, then back down the ladder, back of barn, so close, where is he?? And there it was. . An evil , dirty bird; laughing and flicking its tail at me! At night, in the dark! What kind of wicked bird does that at night ? Ugh. Cussed on a Sunday night after church.

Yeah, we're definitely a lot alike. I gotta work on that too.


Stiffer the cat. Great name.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Stiffer the cat. Great name.

SWIFFER the cat. Can't spell!

[Snicker Bar]

Sometimes he was a Swiffer Wet Jet version ( couldn’t use litter pan) .. Miss him, he was a the best door greeter ever