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Thread: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen413 View Post
    I have a boy that is NR due to teeth issues from a shattered jaw from a fall. He ended up losing a bottom tooth for a while. We didn't think it would re-grow but it eventually did. I say this to say don't count him out yet. They could return it could just take time. Sammy's tooth fell out about two months after his fall and returned about two months later. I think he lost the tooth due to the trauma to the root during his fall. I tried to use the curved style blades recently but couldn't. I couldn't get it around just a single tooth. If you just have a single tooth to trim it should work great. The flat ones allow me to just trim one at a time.

    I was terrified the first time I trimmed Sammy's teeth. I had never done it or seen it done before. I had no one to show me in person. I watched videos and read up on everything I can find. Then after it was over I realized it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I'm still nervous every time, but it's different once you know what to expect.

    This is one of the first articles I read and has a lot of information in it that you might find helpful.

    http://www.mary.cc/squirrels/trimteeth.htm

    He sure is a lucky guy to have found himself in your yard when he did!

    You do have his cage indoors right?


    Mary's article is EXCELLENT! Stress on a squirrel without anesthesia is the major concern.

    The curved blades work well but only on a single tooth and compared to the flat blade sold by Chris's they are harder to maneuver. Finding a small curved blade pair is hard. This is the one that most vets use:

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    The one Chris sells is just fine for home use.

    It's not just a matter of if the teeth regrow but will they grow with proper alignment so they wear down evenly on their own. You can trim the single upper until you determine if the others will re-grow. If they do it's not just clip and release. They have to be shaped with a dental hand-piece or dremel so the occlusal plane is correct and then reassessed later. If necessary reshaped and reassessed until it's determined they align properly and wear properly without medical intervention.

    Here is an excellent page explaining dental issues in squirrels: http://squirrelrefuge.org/teethissues.html

    No one wants to take a squirrel out of the wild but don't assume that just because teeth grow back they will wear properly. It takes many months with several re-exam's by a rodent dental professional like Dr Beers or someone trained on the Crossley method determine if proper alignment has resumed. You vet could take a lateral view X-ray of the incisors and send it to a rodent dental expert in the states for consultation.

    I have taken Dr Crossley's training and have insight into rodent dental issues. I would recommend that anyone in the zoo/vet arena take his courses: https://lafeber.com/vet/crossley/

    If you want the technical information here is Dr. Crossley's thesis on Chinchilla dentistry. A Chinchilla shares many anatomical features with a squirrel: http://cpd.dacross.uk/cpd_unrestrict...-002-96dpi.pdf
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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Thank you much SophieSquirrel, all your knowledge is extremely valuable. Yes, I have the cage indoor.

    I understand how regrowing of bottom incisors does not mean all is well and I could just release him. I am not expecting him to be releasable ever.

    It's too bad that over here in Quebec, Canada, there are no specialized vets for squirrels. Finding one who accepts to see one is already something to celebrate. Vets risk their license when they accept to see a squirrel, so I am told. Most of them just want to euthanize and that is all they will offer. It's our reality over here.

    As far as the tool I should get, I want to get the very best kind that will be the least risky for Maxee and easiest to maneuver for me. Should I invest on a tool used by vets? I do have to take cost into consideration given my limited funds and upcoming vet expenses, but I am also okay with investing in the best tool if I am told the expense really is worth it. If I get a more cheaper kind, I should go with the one sold at Chris's squirrels and more? Not the curved kind? I am a bit confused trying to choose between the various models presented... My being so overwhelmed and upset is making my mind scrambled and I not thinking as sharply as my usual self. I am still in shock. If only Maxee would come out and eat... It's 22 hours since anesthesia, I am getting increasingly worried.

    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post

    You do have his cage indoors right?


    Mary's article is EXCELLENT! Stress on a squirrel without anesthesia is the major concern.

    The curved blades work well but only on a single tooth and compared to the flat blade sold by Chris's they are harder to maneuver. Finding a small curved blade pair is hard. This is the one that most vets use:

    Name:  D1045.png
Views: 61
Size:  56.5 KB

    The one Chris sells is just fine for home use.

    It's not just a matter of if the teeth regrow but will they grow with proper alignment so they wear down evenly on their own. You can trim the single upper until you determine if the others will re-grow. If they do it's not just clip and release. They have to be shaped with a dental hand-piece or dremel so the occlusal plane is correct and then reassessed later. If necessary reshaped and reassessed until it's determined they align properly and wear properly without medical intervention.

    Here is an excellent page explaining dental issues in squirrels: http://squirrelrefuge.org/teethissues.html

    No one wants to take a squirrel out of the wild but don't assume that just because teeth grow back they will wear properly. It takes many months with several re-exam's by a rodent dental professional like Dr Beers or someone trained on the Crossley method determine if proper alignment has resumed. You vet could take a lateral view X-ray of the incisors and send it to a rodent dental expert in the states for consultation.

    I have taken Dr Crossley's training and have insight into rodent dental issues. I would recommend that anyone in the zoo/vet arena take his courses: https://lafeber.com/vet/crossley/

    If you want the technical information here is Dr. Crossley's thesis on Chinchilla dentistry. A Chinchilla shares many anatomical features with a squirrel: http://cpd.dacross.uk/cpd_unrestrict...-002-96dpi.pdf
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    I have a baby that I’m preparing for release. He’s about 8 months old and every time I’ve put him out he camps out in his nest box and will not come out. It’s scary. I don’t think this is anesthesia. I think he’s scared. Which is absolutely understandable. Give him time and just keep watching. One thing I did with Charlie was put a dropper if water up to the nest box and he’d peek his head out and drink. Maybe there is some way you could do that with Maxee? I think keeping him hydrated is the most important thing right now.

    I agree if you handle him wear gloves. He may only have one tooth but it could still hurt and those claws will likely get you too. If it were me I’d let the vet do the next trim and get them to show you the length you need. Also get them to cut his nails. It may make handling him a little easier right now.

    Personally I’d go with the type of trimmers that Chris’s sells. Whether you get them there or on Amazon. I’ve been trimming Sammy’s with those type from very early on. I recently tried the curve type and couldn’t use them unless I wanted to cut both teeth and once and that’s not something I would do. If you get the straight ones now you will be able to use them if the other teeth come back in.

    I think once Maxee figures out he is safe he will settle. I don’t know how tame he will ever be but I do believe he will figure out you are helping him. Him only having one tooth is an advantage to help you adjust getting used to trimming. Sammy’s has had it done all his life and he still fights me. Cause he’s stubborn like that. But I also solo trim. It’s less stressful for him that way because he doesn’t like anyone but me holding him.

    He’s in a while new world where someone has caged him and taken him to some place that “tortured” him. He doesn’t know it’s for his own good or that you are helping. He will figure it out. I am praying for you both.

    “You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.” ― John Bunyan .



    Sammy's TSB Thread Marvin and Charlie's TSB Thread Sadie's TSB Thread

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen413 View Post
    I don’t think this is anesthesia. I think he’s scared. Which is absolutely understandable. Give him time and just keep watching. One thing I did with Charlie was put a dropper if water up to the nest box and he’d peek his head out and drink. Maybe there is some way you could do that with Maxee? I think keeping him hydrated is the most important thing right now.
    I am hoping that is what it is, him being scared and it is understandable. I did put water right in front of the carrier and early morning, my husband saw him drink watching him on the wifi camera we have on him. At least he drank that one time, which is reassuring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen413 View Post
    I do believe he will figure out you are helping him.
    I think he already understands I am helping him. He is still scared, which is perfectly normal. But at the same time, I really believe he does understand already. I use animal communicators all the time (I have 2 that I really trust) to get the animal's input and to let them know what is going on before it happens to make it easier on them. It really helps them a lot. Maxee had 5 communications so far in the last 10 days, 2 of them being yesterday before vet visit and this morning. I understand animal communication isn't mainstream, but for me, it is always part of the care I provide, as well as energy healing (I am a practitioner myself).
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Cutter question:

    I am from Canada, so ordering from Chris' Squirrel and More means delay and shipping doubling the cost. So I am looking at what is available on Amazon.ca

    These look exactly like what Chris sells, am I right?
    https://www.amazon.ca/Hakko-CHP-170-...5BYNMBV6HXEX4M

    This is another option that was suggested by SophieSquirel that I found on Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.ca/Hakko-CHP-170-...5BYNMBV6HXEX4M

    Should I invest on option #2? It's 6 times the price of the other ones, but I am okay with that if it's better.
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    I think you posted the same link twice. I use something similar to those but are not the Chris’s ones and they work fine.

    “You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.” ― John Bunyan .



    Sammy's TSB Thread Marvin and Charlie's TSB Thread Sadie's TSB Thread

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen413 View Post
    I think you posted the same link twice.
    oops... did not realize.
    This is option #2 (more expensive kind)
    https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0134J7PEC/...v_ov_lig_dp_it
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    I have heard reports here on the TSB of those smaller, straight nibbler cutters (pinch cut) causing teeth to splinter, especially with adult squirrels.

    I think the ones I suggested will work better at minimizing the chances of splintering. The best would be something made from tool steel and not stainless steel which will have a softer edge. Some of the higher end German tool companies make cutters with tool steel but I did not include them because their price is much higher. The Dog nail clippers have the ideal blade shape IMHO (ie a half moon crecent shaped cutting blades). These dog nail clippers and the German cutters I mentioned use a shearing cutting action instead of a pinching cutting action (like Chris's clippers). The shearing type cut is less likely to splinter a brittle tooth compared to normal pinching cutting that standard clippers do.


    Here is a cheap shearing cutter:

    https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-32600-Ca.../dp/B005KLWG5G
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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by TubeDriver View Post
    I have heard reports here on the TSB of those smaller, straight nibbler cutters (pinch cut) causing teeth to splinter, especially with adult squirrels.

    I think the ones I suggested will work better at minimizing the chances of splintering. The best would be something made from tool steel and not stainless steel which will have a softer edge. Some of the higher end German tool companies make cutters with tool steel but I did not include them because their price is much higher. The Dog nail clippers have the ideal blade shape IMHO (ie a half moon crecent shaped cutting blades). These dog nail clippers and the German cutters I mentioned use a shearing cutting action instead of a pinching cutting action (like Chris's clippers). The shearing type cut is less likely to splinter a brittle tooth compared to normal pinching cutting that standard clippers do.


    Here is a cheap shearing cutter:

    https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-32600-Ca.../dp/B005KLWG5G
    That's true TD, the pinching cutter makes it easier to split the tooth and the crescent shape is better. Getting one small enough to isolate a tooth is the problem. I have seen a small set of German crescents at the AMC NY but I forgot where the vet said she got them, The pinch cutters are a trade off b/c of their size, ease of maneuverability, and ability to isolate one single incisor tooth. The Guillotine dog nail clippers are the worst b/c you can't isolate a tooth and wind up having to cut both incisors together in most cases. This can squeeze the incisors together and cause root damage and is a major no-no in rodent dental work. They also get caught b/c of the loop and if the squirrel gets loose of your grip it's hard to disengage with these literally around the incisors. It's always mandatory to have the popsicle stick or dowel to protect the mouth and tongue as in the vet's video clip I posted.

    Those cheap shearing cutters with the red handles are huge and you would not be able to have the fine motor control for clean cut plus mouth damage may result.

    A pair of crescents about 1/2 this size would be ideal but I have yet to find the source

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    Guillotine style - do not use!

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by DixiesMom View Post
    Cutter question:

    I am from Canada, so ordering from Chris' Squirrel and More means delay and shipping doubling the cost. So I am looking at what is available on Amazon.ca

    These look exactly like what Chris sells, am I right?
    https://www.amazon.ca/Hakko-CHP-170-...5BYNMBV6HXEX4M

    This is another option that was suggested by SophieSquirel that I found on Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.ca/Hakko-CHP-170-...5BYNMBV6HXEX4M

    Should I invest on option #2? It's 6 times the price of the other ones, but I am okay with that if it's better.
    Check your links, option one and two are the same link
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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post
    Check your links, option one and two are the same link
    Yes, I gave the corrected link in a separate post (was too late to edit my post). It is one of the models you suggested, but considerably more expensive. If they last, I am fine with the expense, but someone just told me (on FB) that cutters need to be changed regularly because they get dull really fast. So, I don't know if I can afford these every other month.

    Here it is: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0134J7PEC/...v_ov_lig_dp_it

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    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    $82 CD ($65 US) for those cheap clippers? WOW, that is a RIP OFF!

    I have the complete dental set for when vet's don't want to do the trim but do the Iso for me. Mine contains the professional straight pair, not the better small curved one.

    I have also use these cuticle clippers and they work fine in a pinch if you are on a budget. They are small and sharp and I normally use them for nail tip trimming. Cost $14 at a beauty supply.

    Nipple and syringe shown as size reference

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    I just reviewed Dr Pilney's video and he does use the small curved style like Tube Driver recommended. Notice how small the professional ones are compared to "dog clippers". I am going to call him tomorrow and find out where he got them. Also as shown in the video the popsicle stick (tongue dep) is a must along with a 2nd pair of hands!

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post
    $82 CD ($65 US) for those cheap clippers? WOW, that is a RIP OFF!

    I have the complete dental set for when vet's don't want to do the trim but do the Iso for me. Mine contains the professional straight pair, not the better small curved one.

    I have also use these cuticle clippers and they work fine in a pinch if you are on a budget. They are small and sharp and I normally use them for nail tip trimming. Cost $14 at a beauty supply.

    Nipple and syringe shown as size reference

    Name:  DSC02210.jpg
Views: 41
Size:  95.1 KB

    I just reviewed Dr Pilney's video and he does use the small curved style like Tube Driver recommended. Notice how small the professional ones are compared to "dog clippers". I am going to call him tomorrow and find out where he got them. Also as shown in the video the popsicle stick (tongue dep) is a must along with a 2nd pair of hands!

    And I thought they were 82$ CND because they were better quality!! But then again I should know better with Amazon.ca! For instance, a 2-pack of miracle nipples are 59$ CND!!! And that is just one example. I've seen outrageous prices so often, I should expect it.

    Would love to know if it is possible to get the kind of clippers used on that video. If you get the info, that would be awesome!
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by DixiesMom View Post
    But then again I should know better with Amazon.ca! For instance, a 2-pack of miracle nipples are 59$ CND!!! And that is just one example. I've seen outrageous prices so often, I should expect it.

    Would love to know if it is possible to get the kind of clippers used on that video. If you get the info, that would be awesome!
    On that subject it's the consumer that feeds Amazon, Exxon-Mobil, Monsanto, Bank of America, Uber, Walmart Etc Etc that rips off the American consumer, monopolizes and trys to control you with advertising. I am a total minimalist and except for lavishing my squirrels I consume very little and will not support this mess we have become. I only own two things made in China - my laptop and cellphone (not by choice). The power of the boycott is huge. Sorry for getting off topic - I run a huge forum on the subject....


    I will surely let you know about the clippers after I talk to Dr. Pilney.
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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Let us know if you can find out what company makes those clippers?

    A small, halfmoon clipper made of tool steel would be perfect!

    Popsicle stick or standard pencil works to hold mouth open and also can help prevent any trimmed tooth pieces from shooting down the throat!


    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post
    $82 CD ($65 US) for those cheap clippers? WOW, that is a RIP OFF!

    I have the complete dental set for when vet's don't want to do the trim but do the Iso for me. Mine contains the professional straight pair, not the better small curved one.

    I have also use these cuticle clippers and they work fine in a pinch if you are on a budget. They are small and sharp and I normally use them for nail tip trimming. Cost $14 at a beauty supply.

    Nipple and syringe shown as size reference

    Name:  DSC02210.jpg
Views: 41
Size:  95.1 KB

    I just reviewed Dr Pilney's video and he does use the small curved style like Tube Driver recommended. Notice how small the professional ones are compared to "dog clippers". I am going to call him tomorrow and find out where he got them. Also as shown in the video the popsicle stick (tongue dep) is a must along with a 2nd pair of hands!

    The adventures of Sir Max and Explorer Millie!
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...e-the-Explorer!

    See my wild squirrel adventures in the thread "Squirtle's yard!":
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...quirtle-s-Yard!

    See the sisters Pip and Nip!
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-(Pip-and-Nip)!

    “You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.”
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, The Little Prince

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by TubeDriver View Post
    Let us know if you can find out what company makes those clippers?

    A small, halfmoon clipper made of tool steel would be perfect!
    I talked to Dr. Pilny and he states the nippers shown in the rat video are no longer made and he has not been able to find a replacement source

    I am going to look into buying a pair of 7" tool steel docking scissors and having them modified for single tooth incisor trims. I have a scissor sharpening guy that can do anything. With these <photo> the curve can be enlarged and it's close enough to the end to be able to grasp just one tooth. The curve could be enhanced with a Dremel and sharpened by an competent scissor sharpening person.

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    So, this is the model I ended up buying.

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    I'll probably get another model as well in case this one feels awkward to use. Maxee is having a hard time adjusting to his new situation. He stays in the cat carrier at the bottom of the cage. He won't go at the higher part of the cage where I have 2 nest options for him. Did not expect this to happen. It's pretty heartbreaking for now... but I do understand it is normal for him to be in shock and scared. How I wish I did not have to drag him back to the vet so soon and trim his tooth so often. Will make it so much harder on him. Trying to take it one day at a time... but gosh this is so hard
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by DixiesMom View Post
    Maxee is having a hard time adjusting to his new situation. He stays in the cat carrier at the bottom of the cage. He won't go at the higher part of the cage where I have 2 nest options for him. Did not expect this to happen. It's pretty heartbreaking for now... but I do understand it is normal for him to be in shock and scared. How I wish I did not have to drag him back to the vet so soon and trim his tooth so often. Will make it so much harder on him. Trying to take it one day at a time... but gosh this is so hard
    Yes, but the other option would be a painful death in the wild. That trimmer will work for his single incisor if the other doesn't grow back. Like TubeDriver said the curved ones are the most efficient at cutting without fracturing. You just can't get it in between 2 incisors with that style and you never want to cut two together. It will take time for him to adjust and eventually he will. It's good you are going to a vet for the next trim. Restraining a wild that is not used to being handled will not be easy. My Winston was a young wild when he was found with a severely injured mouth from a fall and Mange. Now he is the most playful and loving boy. I trim him often and he fights me all the way but always forgives me within a few minutes.

    Winston Relaxing

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    Resident Sciurus: Sophie, Kami, Lady, Lucky, Beatrice, Jill, Winston, and Patchi the Prairie Dog

  32. 3 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to SophieSquirrel:

    cava (04-20-2018), DixiesMom (04-20-2018), Toddy (04-20-2018)

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    Default Re: Wild squirrel with teeth/mouth issues - Possible broken tooth and now abscess

    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post
    Yes, but the other option would be a painful death in the wild.
    I am really, really happy he is safe and sound with me. It would have been horrible for him had he not found us.

    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post
    My Winston was a young wild when he was found with a severely injured mouth from a fall and Mange. Now he is the most playful and loving boy. I trim him often and he fights me all the way but always forgives me within a few minutes.
    awww Winston is adorable! I love hearing those stories with a happy ending. I can't predict which way it will go with Maxee, but knowing what is possible to achieve with time gives me hope. And I know love can move mountains
    ----
    Josee
    A tribute video made in honor of our beloved NR squirrel, Dixie: https://www.facebook.com/jroussy1972...type=2&theater

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