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Thread: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

  1. #1
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    Default Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    I was reading a couple of the latest threads about Esbilac, goats milk Esbilac and goats milk formula for pinkies and wanted some clarification about which is currently recommended. We all know the horror of FV 32/40 but it appears there is a rising problem with Esbilac for pinkies as well. With that in mind, what is the formula recommendation for pinkies? What is the formula recommendation for eyes closed babies? Does TSB want to take a stand against using straight Esbilac with pinkies like they did with FV 32/40? There seems to be some merit to using Goats Milk Esbilac or goats milk formula, but is it ok for it to be mixed with Esbilac or would colostrum, or the equivalent, be a better choice?

    I ask these questions because at this point Iím confused. I donít get many (if any) babies, but Iíd like to be able to advise others if I see them asking for help.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Mel1959, it's a tough question that we face every single season. I used straight Esbilac last season until eyes opened and had healthy pinks with perfect poops. I used half goat milk (Meyenberg) and half Esbilac for my one little flyer, Avia, and she did great. I do acknowledge, however, that others had a lot of trouble with Esbilac in pinkies last year.

    I Love Lucy does high volume and uses half Goat Milk Esbilac and half ProBiolac, also a Pet Ag product. She swears by it. I have not tried it, so just passing along the information.

    I still will not use FV 32/40....the memory of the summer of 2015 is too horrible and vivid; I have PTSD about that junk.
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  5. #3
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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post
    I used straight Esbilac last season until eyes opened and had healthy pinks with perfect poops.

    I Love Lucy does high volume and uses half Goat Milk Esbilac and half ProBiolac, also a Pet Ag product. She swears by it. I have not tried it, so just passing along the information.
    I too have used Esbilac both last fall and with the current babies without issue... FWIW.

    Just for clarification, the "Goat Milk Esbilac" refers to the off-the-shelf Pet AG product of the same name and not a combo of the standard Esbilac mixed with some combo Goat's Milk product, yes?


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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Mel, I never had issues with 32/40 but other highly respected rehabbers did so I changed to Esbilac and all seemed okay till last year.

    What I experienced with Esbilac and neonates was horrific. Based on the description from those with the 32/40 issues my littles had the same issue with Esbilac. The ONLY reason they made it was due to a switch to Goat's Milk Formula by another rehabber after I handed them off. Yes, it was so bad and I felt so awful (complete failure actually) I handed my babies off to another rehabber to save after I messed them up. They all made it and were released.

    Then come last Fall like an idiot I used Esbilac again (thinking it was just those babies)...nope, same exact problem so again I went to GMF and they made it. Keep in mind this is after they block up and I have to do the Duckman Treatment for 24-36 hours to reconstitute the cement in their little guts.

    This year, like a fool I went to Esbilac and the little one died. (I do think he had other major issues going on, but he did bloat and he did die...those are facts)

    I have since gone to GMF entirely for eyes closed babies 3 weeks old or less. A 50/50 blend of GMF/FV20/50 for 3 weeks till eyes open and straight FV 20/50 for eyes open (unless there are digestive issues and then I use GMF)

    I am thrilled to share my babies are beautiful, chunky, little monsters. Far far cry from last year at this time.

    Based on my horrific experience with Esbilac over the last 3 seasons, I will most likely never suggest it as an only formula again. I do think there is benefit to mixing the formulas. Colostrum is added to the formula and does not replace formula...at least that's what I do.

    This change is huge for me. Although I live in an area that prides itself on farms and farming, acquiring Goats Milk here is impossible. I drive to Maryland to get mine or I schedule visits and meet ups with friends so they can bring me Goats Milk. It's not easy and there is a lot of advance planning involved to make sure I never run out. But the results to date have been undeniable. I've been converted!

    The biggest thing I've learned in the last 8 years of rehabbing...you have to do what works for you, but you need to keep your ears open to those that surround you, just in case there's something coming down the line. You know, CYA.

    I hope that helps maybe just a little bit.

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  7. 4 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Milo's Mom:

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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    I too have used Esbilac both last fall and with the current babies without issue... FWIW.

    Just for clarification, the "Goat Milk Esbilac" refers to the off-the-shelf Pet AG product of the same name and not a combo of the standard Esbilac mixed with some combo Goat's Milk product, yes?


    Correct. Pet Ag makes a Goat Milk Esbilac powder, mixed the same way as the regular Esbilac.
    I have never used it, but I have used the Meyenberg powdered goat's milk as PART of my flyer formula. One could always use that to make the "JIT Goat Milk formula" as well, combined with yogurt and heavy cream as directed. I have personally never used fresh goat's milk because I seriously doubt it's available here in the Bronx. I can't even get full-fat yogurt.

    We have to remember that water plays a huge part in the formula problem, as well. Water is two-thirds of every ML of formula we put into these babies, and their mamma's milk is NOT made with our tap water, bottled water or anything else humans drink. Therefore, Esbilac made with NYC water may be very different in mineral content, etc. from Esbilac made with Tennessee water. This is why everyone MUST discover for themselves what works best for them, in their environment, with their resources.
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  9. 4 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to island rehabber:

    Jen413 (03-13-2018), Mel1959 (03-13-2018), Milo's Mom (03-13-2018), Spanky (03-13-2018)

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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo's Mom View Post
    The biggest thing I've learned in the last 8 years of rehabbing...you have to do what works for you, but you need to keep your ears open to those that surround you, just in case there's something coming down the line.
    Excellent advice that would benefit all...

  11. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Spanky:

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  12. #7
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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post

    I have personally never used fresh goat's milk because I seriously doubt it's available here in the Bronx. I can't even get full-fat yogurt.


    It's easier for me to find an actual GOAT than it is for me to find Goat's Milk!

    I did find one farm that does have a limited supply but when I asked them for some they told me no. Apparently it's baby goat season and the baby goats need it! I said I only need a little bit, they said the goats need all of it. I should check back in 3-4 weeks. I drove to MD instead.

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  13. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Milo's Mom:

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  14. #8
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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo's Mom View Post
    Mel, I never had issues with 32/40 but other highly respected rehabbers did so I changed to Esbilac and all seemed okay till last year.

    What I experienced with Esbilac and neonates was horrific. Based on the description from those with the 32/40 issues my littles had the same issue with Esbilac. The ONLY reason they made it was due to a switch to Goat's Milk Formula by another rehabber after I handed them off. Yes, it was so bad and I felt so awful (complete failure actually) I handed my babies off to another rehabber to save after I messed them up. They all made it and were released.

    Then come last Fall like an idiot I used Esbilac again (thinking it was just those babies)...nope, same exact problem so again I went to GMF and they made it. Keep in mind this is after they block up and I have to do the Duckman Treatment for 24-36 hours to reconstitute the cement in their little guts.

    This year, like a fool I went to Esbilac and the little one died. (I do think he had other major issues going on, but he did bloat and he did die...those are facts)

    I have since gone to GMF entirely for eyes closed babies 3 weeks old or less. A 50/50 blend of GMF/FV20/50 for 3 weeks till eyes open and straight FV 20/50 for eyes open (unless there are digestive issues and then I use GMF)

    I am thrilled to share my babies are beautiful, chunky, little monsters. Far far cry from last year at this time.

    Based on my horrific experience with Esbilac over the last 3 seasons, I will most likely never suggest it as an only formula again. I do think there is benefit to mixing the formulas. Colostrum is added to the formula and does not replace formula...at least that's what I do.

    This change is huge for me. Although I live in an area that prides itself on farms and farming, acquiring Goats Milk here is impossible. I drive to Maryland to get mine or I schedule visits and meet ups with friends so they can bring me Goats Milk. It's not easy and there is a lot of advance planning involved to make sure I never run out. But the results to date have been undeniable. I've been converted!

    The biggest thing I've learned in the last 8 years of rehabbing...you have to do what works for you, but you need to keep your ears open to those that surround you, just in case there's something coming down the line. You know, CYA.

    I hope that helps maybe just a little bit.
    Thank you, MM. This is a wealth of information and is very helpful!

    I almost wonder if the advice that should be given for pinkies and eyes closed babies is to dilute the Esbilac 50/50, regardless of location, with goats milk formula OR advise Esbilac Goats Milk powdered formula mixed with ProBiolac? Or should everyone be using a bottled water for formula reconstitution with pinkies and eyes closed babies? Not distilled, but maybe purified which doesnít have the mineral content that spring water does?

    It seems like itís far worse to try to correct the cement gut once your pinkies have it then to possibly prevent it with the combo formulas. Just my thoughts.

  15. Serious fuzzy thank you's to Mel1959 from:

    Milo's Mom (03-13-2018)

  16. #9
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    Default Re: Question about formulas for pinkies and babies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Thank you, MM. This is a wealth of information and is very helpful!

    I almost wonder if the advice that should be given for pinkies and eyes closed babies is to dilute the Esbilac 50/50, regardless of location, with goats milk formula OR advise Esbilac Goats Milk powdered formula mixed with ProBiolac? Or should everyone be using a bottled water for formula reconstitution with pinkies and eyes closed babies? Not distilled, but maybe purified which doesnít have the mineral content that spring water does?

    It seems like itís far worse to try to correct the cement gut once your pinkies have it then to possibly prevent it with the combo formulas. Just my thoughts.
    IMHO, yes, I feel that a combination should be the primary suggestion. Keeping in mind some of the products will need to be ordered and may not be readily available. And you are 1000% correct it's much easier to prevent than to go back and fix...as anyone whose fought bloat will attest.

    I'm not the person to discuss bottled water, most of it is horribly acidic and is very bad for even us. The volume of babies that I do simply doesn't permit me to consider water from other than my tap, at this time.

    Top quality custom cage gear, accessories, blankets, toys, & nest boxes.
    Boutique items are fun, unique, and anything but ordinary.

    TSB thread: Auntie MM's Custom Boutique Website: www.AuntieMMsCustomBoutique.com Facebook: Auntie MM's Facebook Page



  17. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Milo's Mom:

    Mel1959 (03-16-2018), PennyCash (03-13-2018)

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