Calcium Carbonate

[Snicker Bar]

I’ve looked many times for just the plain form without vitamin D at our pet stores; they never have any. I’m at Walmart now; is there a human form you recommend? I’m looking at one now ( Spring Valley brand, 600 mg calcium; under main ingredients it says calcium carbonate) Is this ok for the Teenies ( the Flyers)?

[cava]

https://www.henryspets.com/calcium-c...-powder-100-g/

this is what I use. Note all of the other ingredients on the label of the stuff you're looking at (I looked it up online). The henry's just has calcium carbonate and that's all.

[Snicker Bar]

Perfect; didn’t know they had that! I’ll order it from her, thanks!

[Diggie's Friend]

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PLEASE DO NOT ADD VITAMIN D3 TO DIETS THAT INCLUDE ANY SOURCE THAT CONTAINS VITAMIN D3, be it to a rodent block, separate dry supplemental source, or liquid vitamin-mineral source that is added to the drinking water, as this would strongly lend to the calcification of the kidneys, pancreas, blood vessels, and joints, that can lead to premature mortality!

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[Diggie's Friend]

https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Calc...SIN=B000UYA1T6

Calcium Citrate is far more soluble form than Calcium Carbonate. The key difference is that Carbonate is higher in elemental calcium; yet when Calcium citrate is given in a volume measure equal to that of C. carbonate it supplies not only the same amount of elemental calcium, but does it better as it is more far soluble at solubillity factor of 7.0 compared to that of C. carbonate at 0.14.

Calcium citrate has another advantage, for because it cannot bond with Oxalic acid in foods, it cannot be lost to this anti-nutrient like C. carbonate is. Instead Calcium citrate counters oxalic acid by making it more soluble, which keeps this anti-nutrient from bonding with the calcium in the intestines, and then in the bloodstream. This supports more calcium to be available to be utilized by the bones and the body. This form also inhibits the formation of Calcium oxalate kidney and bladder stones in rodents, not contributes to them as Calcium carbonate readily does when the level of oxalate ingested is on the higher side.

[Chompers]

I purchased the powder from Henry’s healthypets....what’s the correct dosage with water? Can I add to his water bottle?

Thanks!

[CritterMom]

I purchased the powder from Henry’s healthypets....what’s the correct dosage with water? Can I add to his water bottle?

Thanks!

No. Calcium powder is basically ground rock. It doesn't dissolve. It will just clog the bottle.

What is the diet of the squirrel in question? If being fed a healthy diet, there is really not a reason to supplement with more calcium. Are you feeding the Henry's blocks?

[Diggie's Friend]

I held back on this source to do just a bit more study into this source of calcium.v(CCM) Calcium Citrate Malate was first introduced 40 years ago.

Since has has been the focus of a number of studies in rats involving absorbability, and this one more recently in bone density comparing CCM to Calcium carbonate in growing rats.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2380795

It has been previously demonstrated that calcium from calcium citrate-malate (CCM), a mixture of calcium, citric acid and malic acid, is better-absorbed than calcium from calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in humans and in rats.

It is concluded that because of its positive effects on bone, CCM is a more bioavailable calcium source than CaCO3.

It is highly soluble in water, with a solubility factor of (80.0) compared to that of calcium Carbonate at (0.14) that is not soluble in water.

http://www.employees.csbsju.edu/ssau.../maple-sap.htm

Using CCM in water or apple juice that makes it even more soluble is a very good option compared to using C. carbonate in homemade diets, and for the treatment of MBD. As for the difference in powder measure, it makes no difference, save to regard the measure noted for equal elemental calcium to use, since powder isn't an issue with this source otherwise.

This is what makes it a user friendly source for the use of treating MBD over Calcium carbonate, be it in water or diluted apple juice by syringe, or even in applesauce, or Kefir.Just as long as the source is water based, or the recipe uses water or another water based source to disolve it prior to making a non cook dough ball, it will work.

The same compounds in CCM are found in maple tree sap that tree squirrels drink from the cuts they score in the bark.

Other organic compounds in the sap include organic acids, amino acids, amides, ammonia, and peptides. The organic acids in the sap include malic (0.21%), citric (0.002%), and traces of succinic, fumaric and several others. The total ash (mineral) content of the sap is 0.66 %. Common minerals include potassium (0.26%), calcium (0.07%), silicon oxide (0.02%) and lesser amounts of manganese, sodium, and magnesium (Willets, 1958).

http://www.employees.csbsju.edu/ssau.../maple-sap.htm[/SIZE]

This source has been an additive in orange juice and other beverages, which makes it the ideal source for using in water or juice for MBD treatment. NutraBio carries CCM powder, that is by specific measure 500 mg. that makes dividing the measure into five equal portions, for a day total of 500 mg. elemental Calcium to do. Just add to water, or apple juice, or plain Kefir mixed with a bit of apple juice per partial dose.

If want to sprinkle it on food, just make sure you mist it before feeding to prevent it possibly being inhaled.

To date I have seen only one possible down side for using this source over calcium carbonate, that of a of shelf life. How long really is the question, not whether it can be used in a block diet, for given a shorter shelf life I see no issue with it being used in that application. .


NurtraBio carries this source in bulk powder (see amazon.com) https://www.amazon.com/NutraBio-Calc.../dp/B00333HED2

[Snicker Bar]

I had the Henry’s Calcium Carbonate ordered as well; I had originally purchased Reptical with D 3 ; but a little nervous to use it after seeing the warnings here. I bought these mainly for the Flyers. The Greys eat their blocks fairly well; but my little “Teenie”, I just can’t tell she eats any raw block at all. She may nibble some in the form of boo balls; I also offer kale, orange, antlers, and mushrooms ( for the D 3) . On the Healthy Diet for Flying squirrels, it mentions using powder , but I’m still not sure how often ; doesn’t specify if should be used daily, couple times a week ? Ive just been kind of using it twice a week hoping that’s enough, when combined with what little boo ball/ block she may eat when I’m not looking , picky girl ! But if the citrate form is better ( this info. sounds convincing to me), I’ll switch to it. We are going to try sprinkled crickets tomorrow ; she seems to have no interest in worms ( wax or meal); but will pounce any bug that enters her domain at night. So hoping the calcium crickets will be a sure way to get her protein and calcium . Gross , but with a try

[Diggie's Friend]

Have you only tried dried worms and bugs? If so maybe she needs live to peak her interest?

[kbunch]

No. Calcium powder is basically ground rock. It doesn't dissolve. It will just clog the bottle.

What is the diet of the squirrel in question? If being fed a healthy diet, there is really not a reason to supplement with more calcium. Are you feeding the Henry's blocks?

I just ordered Henry's products, I am so glad that I found out about it. I'm forcing Stella over to the blocks now, so far I have had no luck with the blocks that I have I think she will like the Henry's better. I also ordered the calcium powder. I seen the serving is 1/3tsp. What doses are you guys giving and how often are you doing it? I want to make sure she is getting what she needs until I get her eating the blocks.

Up until now she has been eating, natural stuff from outside, veggies, fruits, and food that I had purchased from Exotic Nutrition I was adding Squirrel booster (a multivitamin) and Squirrel Cal powders to her food. I have noticed that she has recently started relying on everything other than the food from exotic nutrition, which means she now isn't getting any of the vitamins that I have been adding. I was worried about that food not being good enough anyway. I have taken away all her other food and am only offering her blocks and she is still retrieving for her stashes that I haven't found LOL.

[Diggie's Friend]

For info sake, a source of calcium that won't clog the bottle/syringe when added to water, Calcium Citrate malate (CCM), which is soluble in water. Of course you have to portion it out just as you do with any form of calcium, yet for this application the greater powder volume that this source has is not an issue as it dissolves in water.

This same source has been shown to exceed bone mineralization level in weanling rats from that achieved with Calcium carbonate equal elemental measure.

Read more about this product: http://www.nutrabio.com/category/calcIum/

CCM for short, this form of highly bioavailable calcium can be purchased from NutraBio online on Amazon.com, or directly from the company. it comes in two sources, one a capsule with each capsule contents equal to (1/4 Tsp.) = (133 mg.) elemental calcium. From the loose powder CCM from NutraBio, the measure notes:

According to the label, each scoop contains 5 grams of the product, which includes 1 gram (1,000 mg) of actual calcium. And the container includes "100 servings." So if you have one scoop a day (1,000 mg. of calcium)

One half scoop measure provides (500 mg.) elemental calcium. For use to treat MBD one half scoop equals 500 per measure; just portion the measure into 5 parts to give by syringe.

Based upon ongoing research and present findings, with any whole foods diets nutrients will still be deficient in the diet if it isn't well rounded with natural sources, the problem there is that the data on those isn't as well available.

For cultivated sources, determining the calcium to phosphorus in the whole foods portion of the diet is needful and can be done 'mostly' with the support of USDA date found on Self nutrition website, as both measures by wt. of 100 grams and by volume of 1 cup are available for foods. Factoring down from 1 cup to 1 Teaspoon is easily done by just dividing the milligram amount of calcium and then phosphorus in a food by 16,and then by 3 for the milligram content of (1 Tsp.). From there you can go up, or down to (1/64 Tsp.)

Once the amount for calcium and phosphorus are totaled, adding sufficient yet not excessive calcium to support a healthy ratio of Ca:P ratio for juvenile requirements to achieve full development of the skeleton in support of rehabbing to release, or additionally for NR adults requirements towards maintaining a calcium/phosphorus bone reservoir when needful to support them with care in captivity, be it temporarily, or over the rest of their natural lifespan, is most often necessary. This even with when using a block diet, for when you add any food if not measured by volume to determine the amount of calcium and phosphorus in it you can't know how much additional calcium to add in order to support the appropriate (Ca:P) ratio as to not tip the ratio of the block diet out of the healthy range.

According to rat research these ratios differ, with juvenile diets ranging from (1.3:1) to (1.5:1) Ca:P total diet, and adults from (2:1 to 3.3:1) for the total diet.

Using the support of online websites like Self Nutrition that notes USDA measures of 100 grams of diet, and 1 cup, you can determine the amount of Calcium and phosphorus in the foods included in that database. Adding them up and averaging them over a week is the more time intensive effort needed to confirm that the diet is truly well supported with sufficient calcium when it comes to the whole foods portion for juveniles, and for adults also.

[Diggie's Friend]

One more note on CCM; I wouldn' t add it to drinking water for reason there is no way to know how much is being consumed daily as a support to the whole foods portion of the diet.

Instead this source is best included in a wet food, like plain organic Kefir, applesauce, or yogurt in a measured amount daily.

For treating MBD adding it to a measured portion of water, or water with a bit of apple juice included for the treatment of MBD works well.