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Thread: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    My confusion came when you called Teklad 2016 or Mazuri Rodent as the base diet,
    and that HHB's are given as a supplement.
    I know the most important part of any squirrel diet is the block, regardless, in addition to
    the other healthy items from the chart.
    I never heard that you should offer both HHB's in addition to other blocks.
    Does this hold true if your squirrel actually eats 2 HHB's daily along with a bowl of veggies,
    and then a leafy salad in the afternoon?
    My personal thought is the more variety the better. HT/Mazuri is a balanced general rodent block - hence the term "base diet". IMO HHB is more like a necessary "supplement" b/c it contains the extra calcium to prevent MBD and is formulated specifically for squirrels. Plus at $17 / bag HHB Adult would cost me well over $100 / week if thats all I fed my crew of 8 (soon to be 9 with the paralyzed boy from dextersmom). I call Teklad my main or base diet b/c it's always available for them to nibble and they get one HHB adult in the AM and one in the PM.

    I don't know that there is a textbook diet for a squirrel. No squirrel is going to lack nutrition b/c of eating just HHB or Teklad as the only block. Like Astra said block is necessary and I agree. I just choose to do Teklad and HHB together to round the diet off as much as possible and HHB x 2 is absolutely necessary. IMO there is no better formulated food for squirrel's than Henry's. I have mentioned to Leigh doing a finer grind on the Pecans so the flavor is disbursed better throughout the block so they don't pick the block apart looking for the larger pieces.

    All are good choices - a bad choice is a block containing timothy or alfalfa (Nut Squares come to mind). For Prairie Dogs dried corn is poison as it destroys their gall bladder. My Prairie Dog only eats Brisky PD Pellets and free choice Timothy. In his case Timothy is the actual base diet (on demand) and the pellets are the supplement. Although he is a true ground squirrel his diet is way different from his tree dwelling cousins.

    Patches says Hi!


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  3. #22
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Quote Originally Posted by SophieSquirrel View Post

    Patches says Hi!


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    Hi Patches you little adorable baby doll!

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    I have had the discussion about rodent block and HHBs numerous times with Dr. E. She still feels that HT, Mazuri, Zupreem and Oxbow offer balanced nutrition. These blocks could provide all the necessary nutrients on their own. Adding HHBs and veggies provides variety in a captive squirrels diet. They don’t negate the benefits of a basic rodent block. She has mentioned many times in her lectures that in her practice the older, healthy, mbd free, squirrels she has seen, the common denominator is that they had a base diet that consisted of HT, Mazuri, Zupreem or Oxbow.

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  7. #24
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    I reached out to 4skwerlz
    last night because I had some questions and confusion about
    blocks.
    I figured if I was confused, than others may be as well.
    This morning I got her permission to post her answer.
    Thank you again 4skwerlz for taking the time to get back to
    me so promptly.


    Regarding the issue of feeding HHB's plus commercial rodent blocks:

    1. In general, I don't recommend mixing multiple fortified foods because each one is balanced in a different way to achieve a certain nutritional result. It's like taking a Flintstones children's vitamin and a Centrum Silver every day. What kind of vitamin profile do you end up with? For sure it will be different from what was intended by the vitamin makers. Will it hurt you? Probably not; but you may not be getting the optimum benefit.

    Another example specific to the block issue: most commercial rodent blocks are made with much higher amounts of degradable vitamins (A, D, E, etc.) than required because their products must survive months on the shelf. This means the nutrient profile of your Harlan Teklad or Mazuri blocks will vary quite a bit depending on how old they are. In contrast, because HHBs are fresh baked, have no shelf life, and are stored cold, we don't need to oversupplement anything. Every bag will be balanced "just so." I think you can see that feeding commercial blocks alongside HHBs will, to some extent, unbalance what we hope and believe is a *perfectly* balanced food.

    2. With Henry's blocks, you pay a premium price for a super-premium product: all human-quality ingredients, no soy, no corn, no preservatives, no menadione, etc. By feeding the commercial stuff as well, you're putting all those bad ingredients right back into your squirrel's diet.

    So no, I never recommend feeding Henry's with commercial blocks. I know a lot of rehabbers do this, partly for cost concerns. That's different. Short-term, all of these things are much less important. I am more concerned about the lifetime diet of a pet or NR.

    To be clear, I do not claim the mixing causes actual harm, even long-term, merely that it is not optimal nutritionally. I do have more serious concerns about adding the "bad ingredients" back into the diet.

    I hope that clears things up!

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  9. #25
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Just thought I would update what is going on with Rose. I can get her to eat ONE HHB a day-and she will not touch it until about 1-3 pm. I already had alllll of the recommended rat blocks. I offer them on such a regular basis that when she comes to investigate the freezer door opening and a bag rattling and sees it's one of those blocks, she will snort at me and run off. So, I added 2 different kinds of zupreme and just the pellets from Deluxe Squirrel Diet (judge me, idc 😂 J/k). Same reaction! Even to the peanut butter flavored zupreme though she will dig a hole in my hand trying to get to it (because of the smell) but once she tries to arrange it in her mouth she will throw it down. So, today I was looking at the Henry's site to order the vitamins and saw that a milkshake recipe comes with it! WHAT? Wish I'd have known that from the get go! It would have avoided SO MUCH misery! Lol She loves drinking from a glass and her syringe! Has anyone else done this with success?

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  11. #26
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Organic Chia oil from Foods Alive Amazon.com Great source of Omega 3 fatty acids.

    https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Alive-A.../dp/B007788AZA

    Put one tiny drop on a one piece of block and rub it onto all the sides. Don't want to over do it.

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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    Organic Chia oil from Foods Alive Amazon.com Great source of Omega 3 fatty acids.

    https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Alive-A.../dp/B007788AZA

    Put one tiny drop on a one piece of block and rub it onto all the sides. Don't want to over do it.
    And I thought I had tried everything! lol I just put in my order. I'm not overly optimistic since she won't eat them with coconut oil, argan oil, sesame oil or hemp oil, however, she will lick all of those oils off my face! I'm sure I will find a use for it myself if she dislikes it. Lol Thanks for the suggestion!

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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrappyDo View Post
    Just thought I would update what is going on with Rose. I can get her to eat ONE HHB a day-and she will not touch it until about 1-3 pm. I already had alllll of the recommended rat blocks. I offer them on such a regular basis that when she comes to investigate the freezer door opening and a bag rattling and sees it's one of those blocks, she will snort at me and run off. So, I added 2 different kinds of zupreme and just the pellets from Deluxe Squirrel Diet (judge me, idc �� J/k). Same reaction! Even to the peanut butter flavored zupreme though she will dig a hole in my hand trying to get to it (because of the smell) but once she tries to arrange it in her mouth she will throw it down. So, today I was looking at the Henry's site to order the vitamins and saw that a milkshake recipe comes with it! WHAT? Wish I'd have known that from the get go! It would have avoided SO MUCH misery! Lol She loves drinking from a glass and her syringe! Has anyone else done this with success?
    My girl was raised on TSB-HHB because of that she will eat her block first. I was a VERY strict mom and tough love was the rule. There were days where she had nothing but different flavored blocks to choose from. But she learned to eat her blocks and Life was good!
    Until she got sick the first time... Since then I've had to get all kinds of creative. I've done the milkshakes, smoothies, slurries etc. She also LOVES drinking from a syringe, being babied by momma and has stayed on formula her whole life. Honestly the easiest thing for me to do when I need to get block into her is to grind the block into powder and add it to her formula or whatever she's accepting at the moment. In my mind getting nutrition into her even when she's ill is not optional and I feel like that's what your trying to do.
    Many of us have had to walk a line between what our babies want versus what they NEED. It can be very hard on our hearts because let's face it cold hearted people rarely take in orphans. Trust me MANY of us have cried over being tough, worried about if we're doing the right thing. No animal has ever driven me as crazy as my little fluffy tail but she's completely worth all the heartache.
    You have a beautiful girl who you obviously love very much and want to keep her healthy. A good block is truly necessary for that. Your at a crossroad at the moment and you will need to decide if your going to spend the next 10 years repeating how frustrated your feeling at the moment regularly or if you just want to tough it out and 'outstubborn' your little diva
    I can promise you I'm thankful that I listened to the tough love approach. I appreciate that when Resilie is feeling good she knows or quickly remembers that eating block is non negotiable.
    It's so difficult for me to find new and creative ways to get nutrition into my girl when she's sick I'm sure I'll go mad at times. I cannot imagine living like that daily.
    Good luck and

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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    I am not sure what happened to my book long reply. lol My basic question-are the vitamins in the block the most important and why can't I give her a variety of things in nature that offer the same benefit-ie., whey protein isolate...how about a variety of grubs/moths/worms, wheat flour? squash, carrot, whatever carb like food grows in the wild. I don't know why I would ever give her baking powder. I can get her a variety of wild eggs. Then I could supplement her more natural diet with a henry block and vitamin milkshake. OR does mixing the ingredients together with the vitamin pull the vitamin/mineral content together in such a way it is healthier than just a vitamin milkshake? Honest question.

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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Should have said questionS! Now I have so many more. lol Can squirrels have vanilla beans? Does anyone's else squirrel get a bit wild eyed, almost, well, pretty much drugged up on acorns? Is there only a certain time of year I can offer them to her? I live in N/W Fl. Soooo many questions! lol
    Last edited by ScrappyDo; 02-24-2018 at 11:40 AM. Reason: left out acorns

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  21. #31
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    No, I don’t give squirrels vanilla beans.

    Please don’t feed acorns at this time. Any acorns now are old. Old, moldy acorns can be deadly. Because they are moist inside they are notorious for growing fungi (mold) inside. Some of these molds produce aflatoxins which are deadly.

    I will give a few acorns in the fall when they are fresh. I CUT EVERY ACORN TO EXAMINE IT BEFORE FEEDING! The capitals are to emphasize how important this is. Even an acorn that looks perfect on the outside can be totally black inside. MOST rehabbers will not give acorns, period. It is very risky and the risk is death.

    It is a personal choice that everyone must make as far as giving acorns in the fall when they are fresh. My flyers LOVE acorns. They love them better than nuts. Because of this I will give them fresh acorns in the fall that have been split and examined. It is the only thing I can give them from their world.

    NO ONE would feed acorns now as they are mostly spoiled. I don’t store frozen acorns any longer. It was once a common practice but no one does that now.

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  23. #32
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    No, I don’t give squirrels vanilla beans.

    Please don’t feed acorns at this time. Any acorns now are old. Old, moldy acorns can be deadly. Because they are moist inside they are notorious for growing fungi (mold) inside. Some of these molds produce aflatoxins which are deadly.

    I will give a few acorns in the fall when they are fresh. I CUT EVERY ACORN TO EXAMINE IT BEFORE FEEDING! The capitals are to emphasize how important this is. Even an acorn that looks perfect on the outside can be totally black inside. MOST rehabbers will not give acorns, period. It is very risky and the risk is death.

    It is a personal choice that everyone must make as far as giving acorns in the fall when they are fresh. My flyers LOVE acorns. They love them better than nuts. Because of this I will give them fresh acorns in the fall that have been split and examined. It is the only thing I can give them from their world.

    NO ONE would feed acorns now as they are mostly spoiled. I don’t store frozen acorns any longer. It was once a common practice but no one does that now.
    Yes, I was aware of the warnings and only offered her the beginning fall buds and a few on a branch nearly ready to fall off. Is this dangerous as well? I supposed I thought it was safe if still on a branch unless there was obvious mold on it. I will just discontinue this fall practice and stick with pecan branches. Thank you.

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  25. #33
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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    [QUOTE=HRT4SQRLS;1254563]No, I don’t give squirrels vanilla beans.

    Please don’t feed acorns at this time. Any acorns now are old. Old, moldy acorns can be deadly. Because they are moist inside they are notorious for growing fungi (mold) inside. Some of these molds produce aflatoxins which are deadly.

    What about pine cones? She hasn't had one yet but she does enjoy the tips of pine branches I notice when we rotate her pine tree in here. She doesn't chew on the bark.

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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScrappyDo View Post
    I am not sure what happened to my book long reply. lol My basic question-are the vitamins in the block the most important and why can't I give her a variety of things in nature that offer the same benefit-ie., whey protein isolate...how about a variety of grubs/moths/worms, wheat flour? squash, carrot, whatever carb like food grows in the wild. I don't know why I would ever give her baking powder. I can get her a variety of wild eggs. Then I could supplement her more natural diet with a henry block and vitamin milkshake. OR does mixing the ingredients together with the vitamin pull the vitamin/mineral content together in such a way it is healthier than just a vitamin milkshake? Honest question.
    Can someone please answer these questions? If Rose is eating one Henry block a day and one vitamin milkshake, along with the healthy (pyramid) garden and wild foods, is that ok?

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    Default Re: What to feed if blocks are a no-go?

    If I give Rose 1 Henry block a day and give her a vitamin milkshake, can I replace the protein she needs with calciworms? The worms I am considering have a calcium/phosphorus ratio of 1.5/1 and the protein is 17.3 %. Roughly, how much protein does a squirrel need a day?

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