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Thread: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

  1. #1
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    Default Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Okay...which one would y'all recommend as the block basis for Boo Balls or anything else? The 2016 is for general use, and it looks like the 2018 is for lactating support/early growth?!

    Muggsy the grey squirrel has tried (and we currently own) HHB, Picky Eaters, Bill Sells' nut squares, Oxbow, Oxbow Garden Select, Mazuri, Kaytee.

    We will, of course, continue to offer HHB and the Sells' squares. As for the "all-you-can-eat" block, I've read on TSB that Harlan Teklad is the way to go...according to some, that is. I'm ready to take the plunge and buy the freaking 15kg.

    So...please tell me which formula you would use.
    Muggsy has OCD and seizing issues.

    Thanks, TSB!!!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    I bought the 2018 when I had babies but I don't think adults need that.
    I would buy the 2016.

    I WOULD NOT buy 33 pounds of this. You would never use that much before it goes bad. There are reseller on Amazon and eBay that buy the large bags and resell it in small quantities. I bought a 5 pound bag when I had a house full of babies.

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    I use the 2018. It has additional protein, but that’s only the real difference that I can tell. It was the 2018 that helped my dwarf to regrow his hair. Concerned about the extra protein, when I reordered I got the 2016. It was either a coincidence or something related to diet, but while feeding the 2016 my dwarf lost the hair on the last inch of his tail. It hasn’t regrow yet, in spite of using the 2018 again.

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    I couldn't even find the 2016 but I guess someone has it. I found 2014.
    This was the product I ordered.
    Mugs is still pretty young so I'm sure the 2018 is fine.

    https://www.amazon.com/Envigo-Former...ro+Teklad+2018

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Maybe I'll buy direct from Envigo...and offer the rest for sale in the "for sale" section of TSB?

    I could use flat rate shipping usps boxes, and everyone on here would know it was super duper fresh?

    At six months old, Muggsy should be okay with the 2018...but I'll still wait to hear from some others before I order. I seem to remember reading something about one of the formulas being loved by a picky eater. No modifications necessary.

    If I could only recall who it was and which formula!

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Admittedly not a rehabber, yet an obvious difference in the 2018 and 2016, as the latter doesn't contain soy. Soy is one source of protein, yet it has drawbacks that are even noted right on the Envigo page. This is for reason of research studies wanting to support findings that have bearing upon human health as far as hormones. I really don't like it for this reason, as these animals don't need to have their hormones messed with as this is not being used for the purpose of gathering data for human health studies.
    There are none too few protein sources that can be included if you want to include 2% more protein in the diet, goat whey protein for one. Also Low Fat plain yogurt; Green Valley Lactose free is a good one, as is their lowfat kefir. Leaving a bit of room for other sources expands on nutrient variety in the diet. Peas provide protein, as does squash. English walnuts are high in protein; a small measure of 1/2 Tsp chopped E. Walnut a day split fed AM and PM is a good daily support nutritionally, not a snack, as theses nuts aren't bad foods, just too much of them in a diet can create an imbalance, which this small measure doesn't represent.

    For support of hair growth, Jarrow makes an Opti-Zinc L Monomethionine. This source, unlike most others, doesn't built up in the body. It is also highly absorbable, and comes with copper in to support balance in the body of these with these key trace minerals.

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    I used the 2018 for the first time this year with my rehab babies and was pleasantly surprised that at least 75% of them liked it, and continued to eat it right up to release time. This after having disappointing experiences with Mazuri, Zupreem and Oxbow blocks where one or two kids would like them and the rest would pee on them.

    One note of caution because your girl is seizure prone: if you note ANY increase in seizure activity after she starts the blocks, STOP. My Owena is my only experience with this, but she can't have any blocks yet known to man -- she gets increased seizure activity if she eats them. It could be the glycemic level, too much sugar -- I don't know. Luckily she is a very good eater and gets no nuts except a few almonds daily, so no issues with her health as of yet.
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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    The 2016 is what I use. Jake will eat them plain. Ruby will eat them with chia oil rubbed on them. Boo balls made with it both of them scarf down.... this company carries smaller amounts and is where I have ordered from.

    http://weecompanions.org/healthy-food

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post


    One note of caution because your girl is seizure prone: if you note ANY increase in seizure activity after she starts the blocks, STOP. My Owena is my only experience with this, but she can't have any blocks yet known to man -- she gets increased seizure activity if she eats them. It could be the glycemic level, too much sugar -- I don't know. Luckily she is a very good eater and gets no nuts except a few almonds daily, so no issues with her health as of yet.
    Crazy! I had no idea that your Owena was that way with block. You make your own, then? I've seen recipes...

    I'll maybe stick with my current regimen, then. The sales dept at Envigo should be contacting me for payment info tomorrow. I may place that order on hold.

    Thanks for the info!!! Is your recipe (if you have one for Owena) in one of the older threads?

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Quote Originally Posted by LynnRobbins View Post
    The 2016 is what I use. Jake will eat them plain. Ruby will eat them with chia oil rubbed on them. Boo balls made with it both of them scarf down.... this company carries smaller amounts and is where I have ordered from.

    http://weecompanions.org/healthy-food

    Okay. This is good news. I'll use the link and get a much smaller amt...then experiment.
    *update* just ordered 1 lb of 2016 and 1 lb of 2018.

    Muggsy seems to like the chia seed oil. So many ideas!
    Last edited by muggsy'sgm; 01-07-2018 at 09:03 AM. Reason: bought stuff and wanted to share

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    I also use 2016 when I can get it but mainly Mazuri b/c my local distributor has it. My little ones prefer the H-T block over the Mazuri. I also supplement with 2 Henry's adult block / day. Unfortunately H-T is not designed for the retail buyer.

    Our retail chain pet stores are flooded with inferior food products, toxic dyed chew toys, and cheap plastic junk from China. Finding healthy products for sqrls or any other animal for that matter is a real scavenger hunt. Thank goodness for Henry's, Squirrels and More, and Brisky (for my Prairie Dog).

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    On amazon.com offers a number of the Envigo rat pellet diets including 2016 global rat diet.
    (see listed options, not just the one initally shown in the diet box.

    http://weecompanions.org/healthy-food

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Quote Originally Posted by muggsy'sgm View Post

    Thanks for the info!!! Is your recipe (if you have one for Owena) in one of the older threads?

    I don't make them. I am so not a baker; my oven is for storage LOL.
    Owena loves leafy dark green veggies, endive, all the good high-calcium foods. She has little interest in nuts, just the few calcium-coated almonds she gets daily which REALLY cut down her seizure activity big time. So far, so good and she's four and a half. I do buy Zupreem primate biscuits as a starter food for my rehab babies each season, and then later get them on the Teklad 2018. I also feed HHB Growth Formula and Picky Blocks, if necessary, later on.
    Last edited by island rehabber; 01-08-2018 at 08:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    I've been using the HT2018 blocks. My two little ones will eat them as is. Sammy will sometimes but it's a rarity. I use them to make booballs which they all scarf down like little piggies! I'm thinking now I should switch to the 2016 once this bag is gone. I will say that Sammy's tail was really puny looking before starting this block and it is now full and bushy. It almost looked like a flyer tail where it was mainly furred on the sides. The only difference in his diet was adding in the HT block booballs (he was already on HHB's).

    “You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.” ― John Bunyan .



    Sammy's TSB Thread Marvin and Charlie's TSB Thread Sadie's TSB Thread

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jen413 View Post
    I've been using the HT2018 blocks. My two little ones will eat them as is. Sammy will sometimes but it's a rarity. I use them to make booballs which they all scarf down like little piggies! I'm thinking now I should switch to the 2016 once this bag is gone. I will say that Sammy's tail was really puny looking before starting this block and it is now full and bushy. It almost looked like a flyer tail where it was mainly furred on the sides. The only difference in his diet was adding in the HT block booballs (he was already on HHB's).
    The HT2018 is what helped my dwarf regrow his hair. Unless there’s a health reason to switch to the 2016 I wouldn’t do it

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Muggsy definitely likes the HT/Envigo 2018 blocks!!! He eats a few at breakfast, and a couple more throughout the day. I don't leave them "free feed," by the strictest definition of the word. This way, I can keep better track of what he's eating...and there aren't caches all over his room!

    I've mixed up the ingredients on his Boo Balls, per y'all's recommendations. I may put the new recipe in the appropriate forum later today!

    I was using rodent block (Mazuri, Kaytee, Oxbow, whatever Muggsy wouldn't eat, really!) with baby food and applesauce.

    Per some suggestions, I eliminated the baby food (though organic, it was pretty high in carbs). Instead, I used frozen kale, frozen fresh cranberries, a couple of baked banana chips, and two ice-cube-tray-size portions of baked and frozen butternut squash. I used fewer pecans, less FV, more block.

    Also, per some recipes on TSB...I reserved a quarter of my batch of Boo Balls, and made a cookie with it! I lightly greased my pan with coconut oil, baked for 7 minutes in the middle of the oven, 350 degrees F--though my oven temp dangly thingie says 325.

    After letting it cool for a bit, and putting the fresh balls in our super-cold beer fridge to firm up...I cut the cooked cookie into a 10 mini-segments.

    Cautiously, I approached my test subject, Master Muggsy Boobasan. The consistency was like a soft-baked oatmeal cookie. The little flecks of red from the cranberry and green from the kale were tantalizing. Muggsy gave me "side eye," and took a tiny nibble from the cookie.
    I began to pull my hand away, as the blood was draining from it rapidly and I was losing feeling--such is the amount of time Muggsy makes me wait before he gives me a much-coveted "thumbs up," or a par-for-the-course "thumbs down."

    Little man stopped chewing and faced me eye-to-eye...no side glances this time. He used both of his eyes to let me know: GIRL, YOU BETTER PUT THAT COOKIE DOWN.

    I watched with glee as he ate every single bit...then started licking his hands. He has no idea it's all healthy!!! Bwahaaahaaa!

    As for the HT 2018, I'll order more for his regular block. I'll continue to use the still-good other blocks for Boo Balls...months of Boo Balls.

    Does anyone need any HT 2016? I can send it to you if you need it.
    Or should I just start making Boo Balls with it?

    Is it okay to mix all of these nutritional sources? Muggsy still gets a HHB, a nut square from Sells' kit, and fresh veggies and 2 slivers of fruit a day. AND usually a partially shelled pecan or a couple of raw almonds.

    What do y'all think? As always, I'm open to suggestions or critiques!!! It's just so freaking exciting to see Muggsy eating something he enjoys. I'm a Southern mama, after all. It's hard to rest unless I know the entire household's bellies are full!!! And this squirrel...well, this one is the pickiest of all.

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Just saw this thread; we were recommended this HT brand for our Flyers. But when we saw they were “autoclave” for laboratory rats , I held off. Is this the right kind ? Is there a formula that would work well for the Flyers and the Greys? All of them are going though a season of Henry’s boredom. But we are going to continue to order Henry’s .... just thought I could add something different for variety , and Boo Ball /baking recipes. I want to try just a small bag if possible.

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Snicker Bar this is a link to where I get mine . You can order as little as one pound up to however much you want.

    http://weecompanions.org/healthy-food

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    snickerbar

    If you order directly from the envigo website (H T manufacturer), there are a bunch of different types of the 2016 and 2018...from autoclave to irradiated.

    I'm pretty sure the weecompanions website (where I purchased mine) carries the "regular" version.

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    Default Re: Harlan Teklad/Envigo 2016 or 2018?!

    Great! They are fairly high aren’t they?? And my luck mine won’t eat them. But we’ve got to find some healthy alternatives for variety. The description of the blocks being being “autoclaved “ kind of confused me; we just want the basic pet food version. Not planning on conducting any laboratory experiments on the girls! So just look for “Regular” then....

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