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Thread: Babies Dropping Like Flies

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    hes had 2cc 1 diluted and 1 not since we decided this is malnutrition. i was thinking of offering about 1cc every hour around the clock tonight. is this a bad idea? also i will need to continue stimulating him to urinate, right? i dont want to cause more dehydration but i dont want to pop his little bladder either.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    what do you think about petAg brand vs esbilac? are they the same manufacturer? that is what is immediately available in powder form where i am.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    what do you think about petAg brand vs esbilac? are they the same manufacturer? that is what is immediately available in powder form where i am.
    NO absolutely not, glad you checked. It sits like cement and we have seen MANY deaths from that crap.
    Petag makes Esbilac just make sure it's the right one, and NOT the PetLac



  4. #44
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    ok. thank you for the information. the local feed and grain opens at 7:30 and they carry the actual esbilac. so i will be there first thing to get some. what is the best way to aclimate him to the diet change? also should i continue to stimulate him to urinate etc? not trying to cause more dehydration

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Yes, continue to stimulate him to urinate. Make life easier for him. Especially because you are upping your feeds and hydration, he'll have to go more often. By the time urine is in the bladder, the body is done with it and it needs to be eliminated, so you're helping by stimulating.

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  7. #46
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    ok. thank you for the information. the local feed and grain opens at 7:30 and they carry the actual esbilac. so i will be there first thing to get some. what is the best way to aclimate him to the diet change? also should i continue to stimulate him to urinate etc? not trying to cause more dehydration
    I will help you through the diet change tomorrow, ok?
    BUT after you get it home, make it at 1 part powder to 3 parts HOT water.
    Let that sit for a few hours in the refrig, whisking periodically to get it all dissolved.
    Continue with the liquid as you are right now.
    I will explain the rest tomorrow, ok?

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  9. #47
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Thank you so much! i will touch base tomorrow and we can pick up from there. i will continue to stimulate him also.

  10. #48
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    Thank you so much! i will touch base tomorrow and we can pick up from there. i will continue to stimulate him also.
    Sounds like a plan.
    Kiss that little monkey for ALL of us!

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  12. #49
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    i sure will. he will be getting spoiled all night long lol lots of love and kisses for this little dude

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  14. #50
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    [QUOTE=Nancy in New York;1237980]Here's another experts take on hydration, Pedialyte, etc.
    No need to read this now, but just wanted to give another opinion. QUOTE]

    I respectfully point out that the woman that wrote this article is not a veterinarian. I have spoken to Dr. Miller personally about this article and she shook her head and said whoever wrote this is really off base. She was surprised that we were using this as a means to tell people about rehydration. I also showed my own Vet this very article. His response was mostly the same as Dr. Miller's. He also told me that too much sugar causes mucus in the stool. For me, I would take the word of the two veterinarians, especially the Wildlife Vet who wrote the protocol for our guiding organizations and the protocol written in the Rehabilitator's Bible, "Wild Baby Mammal, the first 48 hours and beyond". A book that is quoted on TSB all the time. So I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

  15. #51
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by UDoWhat View Post

    I respectfully point out that the woman that wrote this article is not a veterinarian. I have spoken to Dr. Miller personally about this article and she shook her head and said whoever wrote this is really off base. She was surprised that we were using this as a means to tell people about rehydration. I also showed my own Vet this very article. His response was mostly the same as Dr. Miller's. He also told me that too much sugar causes mucus in the stool. For me, I would take the word of the two veterinarians, especially the Wildlife Vet who wrote the protocol for our guiding organizations and the protocol written in the Rehabilitator's Bible, "Wild Baby Mammal, the first 48 hours and beyond". A book that is quoted on TSB all the time. So I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
    Yes I quote that book all of the time.
    It is the "Bible" for dosing.

    No Annette is not a vet, but if you read what she wrote, "Ive been doing this a long time and have found out some things by necropsy, and some by a brilliant DVM with a double masters in nutrition. She has always picked my methods apart, and then told me "why". Today recovering dehydrated and emaciated animals is one of my specialties

    Dr. Miller also wrote that you can use gatorade or other sports drinks for rehydraion,
    and that you can combine pedialyte and formula.

    Yes we will agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Nancy in New York; 09-30-2017 at 12:32 AM.

  16. #52
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    hes had 2cc 1 diluted and 1 not since we decided this is malnutrition. i was thinking of offering about 1cc every hour around the clock tonight. is this a bad idea? also i will need to continue stimulating him to urinate, right? i dont want to cause more dehydration but i dont want to pop his little bladder either.
    I have to agree this is most likely malnutrition and not a myco. At first my heart sank because it seemed like what many of use had experienced with the myco. But with you providing more information about their formula it seems like this could be malnourishment. You are getting good information regarding the correct formula to use. You will get this straightened out. Good luck with your little ones

  17. #53
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    hes had 2cc 1 diluted and 1 not since we decided this is malnutrition. i was thinking of offering about 1cc every hour around the clock tonight. is this a bad idea? also i will need to continue stimulating him to urinate, right? i dont want to cause more dehydration but i dont want to pop his little bladder either.
    I wouldn't do this every hour round the clock.
    Give his little tummy time to "digest" all this.
    If he is taking 2 cc's every 3 hours that's fine.
    I would NOT go above 2 cc's for now.

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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    I wouldn't do this every hour round the clock.
    Give his little tummy time to "digest" all this.
    If he is taking 2 cc's every 3 hours that's fine.
    I would NOT go above 2 cc's for now.

    Great advice . Most malnutrition cases should be fed on the lower side of what you would normally start out a healthy baby (5-7 % of body weight) and slowly increase as you see the babies are tolerating the formula. I would watch for weight gain in a few days. With the transition to full strength formula you may not see much weight gain until fully transitioned. Giving their "little tummy time to digest all this ", as suggested above, is essential advice. Thank you!

    Also, just an FYI, Dr Miller, says that "Gatorade can be used in an emergency if it is the only thing available and not long term" and that " it should be cut by 50% due to too much sugar." The authors of WMB are to be credited with the suggestion of transitioning babies by mixing formula and LRS. I shouldn't credit this to Dr. Miller, if I did. Sorry, for that confusion. I would not suggest, like others here at TSB, mixing formula and LRS or any other electrolyte solution because it will curdle the formula and it is just not necessary. IMO, I would not want to give compromised babies curdled formula ..... Just doesn't seem right to me.

    I am sorry you lost the third little baby. With the formula change you will begin to see improvements. Things will turn around now. There are many different opinions here at TSB . In the end, we usually do what works for ourselves and our babies. We respect each other's differences and opinions and "agree to disagree" at times.

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  21. #55
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Today he's doing so much better. I've been giving feedings every few hours about 1-2cc. It breaks my heart for the others however I have learned a lot from everyone over the last 24hrs to help me prevent this from happening in the future. I appreciate everyone's time and responses

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  23. #56
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    Today he's doing so much better. I've been giving feedings every few hours about 1-2cc. It breaks my heart for the others however I have learned a lot from everyone over the last 24hrs to help me prevent this from happening in the future. I appreciate everyone's time and responses

    Now this update just put a huge smile on my face.
    Yeah, don't go above the 2 cc's for now.
    Can you see a milk line on the tummy?
    Perhaps he has too much fur to view it.

    If you get the powdered puppy formula today, let
    us know and we will help with the transition.

    Keep up the great work, thanks for the update,
    and THANK YOU for taking the suggestions so gracefully.

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  25. #57
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    I'm headed to get the powder formula now. And I will be making an investment in the rehab bible. I was so worried that they weren't getting enough hydration that I've over done it. And now I'm really sad and pretty disappointed in myself. But I'll study that book front to back and will never let this happen again. I love animals and want to see them healthy happy and released. So getting the information about the malnourishment has been really unsettling for me. You have all been awesome with such fast responses. TSB has a wonderful group of advisors

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  27. #58
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    I'm headed to get the powder formula now. And I will be making an investment in the rehab bible. I was so worried that they weren't getting enough hydration that I've over done it. And now I'm really sad and pretty disappointed in myself. But I'll study that book front to back and will never let this happen again. I love animals and want to see them healthy happy and released. So getting the information about the malnourishment has been really unsettling for me. You have all been awesome with such fast responses. TSB has a wonderful group of advisors
    Your gracious spirt and love for your babies is what has made the difference. Please know we all make mistakes with our babies. Just so glad to see your update. You were doing the best you knew how to do with the information you had. That is all you could do. But now you have the best advice you can get. Following that advice will turn these babies around.

    Please share this information about the correct formula with others that you know are not using the correct formula. It will help save many babies. That is what we are trying to do here. .... Help save as many babies as we can.

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  29. #59
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    I will pass this info on to others for sure. I hope to someday be as knowledgeable as all of you. I have the powdered formula. I will mix 1 part powder to 2 parts hot water, correct?

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Babies Dropping Like Flies

    Quote Originally Posted by basnellin View Post
    I will pass this info on to others for sure. I hope to someday be as knowledgeable as all of you. I have the powdered formula. I will mix 1 part powder to 2 parts hot water, correct?
    No, for now, mix it 1 part formula to 3 parts HOT water.
    We will switch that soon.

    We were talking about this case and a member said that since he is already on Esbilac
    transitioning to straight powder can be done more quickly. The only thing it should do
    to them is make them begin to digest their food faster than with the liquid because of the whey protein
    isolate in the powder vs. the casein in the liquid, and that's a good thing.

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