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Thread: New baby stopped feces

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    Unhappy New baby stopped feces

    Hi All, been a while after some sad attacks post rerelease. Have what could be an ousted sickly orphan. Not eating well, stopped decal output past 4 meals. She was brought to me at midnight Sun/Mon and very young. Likely newborn within 24. Her hydration was good but gavecinphsnt protocol 50/50 pedialyte and Esbilac. She also had first 1 of 4 Bene-bac. It had to be in form as she is not a suckler. By 3rd feeding at normal formula. She was having great bowel and urine output until 4:45 pm Monday the next day. It's been 4 feedings and has had no fecal output since.. 6 hours. Tried the disk, light tummy massage. She has been UBER cranky and fussy, getting worse seeming uncomfortable, whining. Terrible rating, no real latching even w/miracle nipple nor and reg 1ml oral syringe, can't stop her fussing, pulls away from food all through feedings. With the nipple she tries a little but with anything she'll pull away, syringe etc. I'm thinking maybe she was booted from the nest as an unwell baby. Please help.
    Last edited by SquirrelSense; 08-08-2017 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Spell correct

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSquirrelyGirl View Post
    Hi All, been a while after some sad attacks post rerelease. Have what could be an ousted sickly orphan. Not eating well, stopped decal output past 4 meals. She was brought to me at midnight Sun/Mon and very young. Likely newborn within 24. Her hydration was good but gavecinphsnt protocol 50/50 pedialyte and Esbilac. She also had first 1 of 4 Bene-bac. It had to be in form as she is not a suckler. By 3rd feeding at normal formula. She was having great bowel and urine output until 4:45 pm Monday the next day. It's been 4 feedings and has had no fecal output since.. 6 hours. Tried the disk, light tummy massage. She has been UBER cranky and fussy, getting worse seeming uncomfortable, whining. Terrible rating, no real latching even w/miracle nipple nor and reg 1ml oral syringe, can't stop her fussing, pulls away from food all through feedings. With the nipple she tries a little but with anything she'll pull away, syringe etc. I'm thinking maybe she was booted from the nest as an unwell baby. Please help.

    What is the weight and how much per feeding has she actually taken and how often?

    Is this baby bloated? Stomach soft or firm? If so do not feed until bloat is resolved.
    You could try a warm water soak. Hold her upright submerged up to her chest while
    stroking down both sides close to stomach. Do not let baby get chilled.

    There have been issues reported among members with Pinkys and esbilac, they do not
    seem to be able to process it at that stage and it just sits in their gut like sludge.
    Many members have gone to and been successful using Goat's milk to start and later
    down the road transitioning to 50-50 goat's milk and esbilac.

    Please post a picture, it can really help being able to visualize the subject being discussed
    and help to assess it's overall condition.
    Come "morning" hopefully other members raising pinks can share experience and offer advice.

    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Smile Re: New baby stopped feces

    Hi Step'N Stone, she finally gave my a fecal bounty! She's 29g, (gained 2 g since arriving) there is a pic of her on my 'photos' too tired to read if or how I can attach here. Not bloated, nor dehydrated. I think her fussyness and unable to knead as well as on mom has her unused to being 'fed'. She probable only nursed with mom. BTW I had done what you suggested first, I see hundreds of babies a wk percent season at the wildlife rehab babies per season and use all the classic proven techniques (and created a few of my own) 'soaks' massage.
    Would you clear up the posts for me re formula? A while back on the board people complained Fox Valley was a killer.. then it was reported fine/reformulated. We use it at the wildlife center by the 50 lb buckets, both < & > 5 week form, ultraboost. Of coarse diarrhea protocol is different. Each rehab seems to have slightly diff mixture with hundreds of orphans and see most people don't follow directions (by making up well mixed batches 24 hrs in advance for 1 days wirth in fridge, then over most scald or reheat making a terrible thick lumpy skinned, unmixed globby muck.) Now I'm hearing Esbilac is to heavy. I have heard both reformulated, esp FV! What's the story? Ive only seen issues from poor formula care but agree, FV is tougher to get smooth and occasionally creates odd look.I've been a bet confused I come back and see the same stuff. We do have loses in wildlife rehab but never the pinky loss I read about from lead gut, usually upon necropsy we find injuries OT aspirations by inexperienced or untrained. Thoughts about these brands as of 2017?

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    PS I tried to post from pic image here into body of a trebly and it failed. Maybe it's too big but I have to be used in another ther hour after cleaning up and sending email just glad baby Nina finally gave you vet the poopy pie!


    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post

    What is the weight and how much per feeding has she actually taken and how often?

    Is this baby bloated? Stomach soft or firm? If so do not feed until bloat is resolved.
    You could try a warm water soak. Hold her upright submerged up to her chest while
    stroking down both sides close to stomach. Do not let baby get chilled.

    There have been issues reported among members with Pinkys and esbilac, they do not
    seem to be able to process it at that stage and it just sits in their gut like sludge.
    Many members have gone to and been successful using Goat's milk to start and later
    down the road transitioning to 50-50 goat's milk and esbilac.

    Please post a picture, it can really help being able to visualize the subject being discussed
    and help to assess it's overall condition.
    Come "morning" hopefully other members raising pinks can share experience and offer advice.


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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSquirrelyGirl View Post
    PS I tried to post from pic image here into body of a trebly and it failed. Maybe it's too big but I have to be used in another ther hour after cleaning up and sending email just glad baby Nina finally gave you vet the poopy pie!
    aplolgies I did not catch spell error. She was not bloated and feedings are 6% her body weight as close to 2 or 2.5 hours since she came at midnight Sunday. She was 27, then 29 g. So form 1.5 & 1.7 ml. Her tummy only looked slightly off when she did not go #2. She did not have as much poop this past feeding as 6:30 but still went some. I think she will need some cultures from yoghurt to help her. She's also needs a mini nipple. I'm down to regular. I really would love to get to the bottom of the various complaints of Esbilac and FB even after formulating has been reported. If you can share your thoughts Tubedriver. Also I'm guessing this tastes nothing like her mothers milk or she's got another unknown health issue. She really cranky cries. more than nursing pulling away too much. Her inability to suckle more than cry through most of any feeding is not too good.
    Last edited by SquirrelSense; 08-08-2017 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Errors

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    Default Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    I posted late am re newborn to few days female having difficulty with fecal output. I had answered most of the questions asked but responded with them again plus the numerical values. (Apologies I responded to Tubedriver instead of Step'N stone).
    Now baby Nina appears to have moderate bloating. She finally had a lot of good bowel mov. feeding after the post. (Yes I give all soaks and massage, did nothing), Monday she's had 1st Bene-Bac of 4 QOD), but then less next bowel and none again feeding at 10:30 am. Her first 10 feeds she were totally regular.
    Now constipation appears a chronic issue. She now does look bloated but not severely and rather not get there.

    I asked to please clarify all this conflicting info on both Esbilac and FV form now that I've read reformulated replacer 'fixed' the issues. We usually use organic yogurt (I use goat) more for chinic diarrhea esp in raccoons with distemper or diarrhea protocol for squirrels an a few others. I've used both Rsb and Fox Valley formulas successfully and would like to hear if you have suggestions for her costpitation & worsening bloat. NOTE:there were small bits of feces on her bed.. a few flea sized feces. She's 30g 10 hours later.
    If I missed a spell mangle please forgive.
    -BSG

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    Default Re: Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    Please clarify what formula are you using and how are you mixing it.
    I will look at your other thread later.

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Here is a discussion (below) on the board going on now that should be of interest to you;
    I did not find any recent pictures of the baby in question only that scary one back in 015
    where you were feeding baby with a bottle with nip pointed down. Sure hope that's a practice
    that has stopped.
    If you want you can send a picture to my email and I will post it on this forum for you.
    stepnstone08@hotmail.com


    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?57956-Which-formula-for-fall-2017

    Last edited by stepnstone; 08-08-2017 at 03:52 PM.
    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    Going off board for a while.
    If the baby is not digesting the formula well,
    or if you see the milk line long after feeding,
    do what Duckman suggested below.
    This has been a lifesaver!


    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman View Post
    The trick for me seemed to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedilyte, but plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly. After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day. The second half day, I bumped up the ration to 50/50. I fed this for a day and then went to 75% Esbilac, 25% water and introduced full food the next day (and the blockage was gone!). So far, I am at 100% success rate. One note though. I check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. I would suggest everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    I just merged both of your threads to keep them in one place
    for easier assessment.
    When all the facts are in one place,
    it helps the people trying to help you.

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Appreciate the help and actual practical advise from Duckman. The chronic referencing of a pic taken as an outake not actual feeding is a purposeful distraction while my husband snapped an image before going to stimulate the orphan (who was reunited with the mother 5 hours later), has been more than annoying as I've described this 5 times.

    i have rehabbbed hundreds of every wild animal from gavages to syringes, head injuries to broken bones, shells and wings and fur, never lost one. To be codistantly called on for a bad 'outtake' posed picture is really unpleasant.

    I only come for second opinions, new or different techniques to share and would like my albums taken down.
    will post per case

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    Default Re: Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    Please clarify what formula are you using and how are you mixing it.
    I will look at your other thread later.
    Nancy although they use FV.. depending on age which formula, I find Esbilac less difficult to properly mix.. mini whisk and but in shocker desperate for very fine food decor. It insures lump catch! I always warm in water bath, never scald or directs heat. I am using Esbilac. I mix a batch for next day night before in fridge. Feedings are 6% of body weight. She's 30 g today. Bloat is not hard. Her max amount of form is 6%. She's tough to photograph pulling her legs in. I'll try to post the last 3 but it's taking precious time to reduce and resize with all the issues on the photo section.

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    Default Re: Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSquirrelyGirl View Post
    Nancy although they use FV.. depending on age which formula, I find Esbilac less difficult to properly mix.. mini whisk and but in shocker desperate for very fine food decor. It insures lump catch! I always warm in water bath, never scald or directs heat. I am using Esbilac. I mix a batch for next day night before in fridge. Feedings are 6% of body weight. She's 30 g today. Bloat is not hard. Her max amount of form is 6%. She's tough to photograph pulling her legs in. I'll try to post the last 3 but it's taking precious time to reduce and resize with all the issues on the photo section.
    Just throwing this out there.
    When I make Esbilac I make large quantities with VERY HOT water.
    Probably at least 4 cups of mixed formula at a time.
    I freeze them in little containers.
    BUT what I've notice is that when I mix the larger
    quantities, I seem to be able to get it pretty well dissolved,
    by using a large whisk in a large bowl.
    I let it sit on the counter, for ~ an hour whisking every 10 minutes
    or so, then I put it in the regrig. for 6-8 hours, whisking occassionally.
    Right before putting it into little containers with lids, I whisk it again, and then
    freeze.
    I wonder if by me mixing larger quantities I'm able to dissolve it better?

    Oh yes, Fox Valley 20/50 IS easier to mix for sure.

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    Default Re: Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    Going off board for a while.
    If the baby is not digesting the formula well,
    or if you see the milk line long after feeding,
    do what Duckman suggested below.
    This has been a lifesaver!
    Got a bit of feces! Hoping for mir. Her urine output has been 98% consistent, but will continue with your protocol and grab some org goat milk in case, we always have goat yoghurt), but if the milk might be useful as we go I'll have it. I think when her mini miracle come tomorrow she'll be able to position better then the regs. Again, we never know why mom ousted an infant or what they went through to end up found with no nest/mom/. She may have a congenital issue or injury, abnormality or other that we simply can not detect. Will keep you posted.

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSquirrelyGirl View Post
    Appreciate the help and actual practical advise from Duckman. The chronic referencing of a pic taken as an outake not actual feeding is a purposeful distraction while my husband snapped an image before going to stimulate the orphan (who was reunited with the mother 5 hours later), has been more than annoying as I've described this 5 times.

    i have rehabbbed hundreds of every wild animal from gavages to syringes, head injuries to broken bones, shells and wings and fur, never lost one. To be codistantly called on for a bad 'outtake' posed picture is really unpleasant.

    I only come for second opinions, new or different techniques to share and would like my albums taken down.
    will post per case
    I take it this is in reference to my comment, I will not apologize for an observation of what appeared to be an improper feeding technique and although I can understand your explanation I personally have not seen / read any "chronic referencing" to have set you off. Since you have "rehabbbed hundreds of every wild animal from gavages to syringes" I would think you could understand how that picture could send the wrong message especially to one that does not know any better. If I made any mistake in my posting, assuming that understanding was it.
    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    She seems to need a bit of time out. clearly hurting after 1 ml fluid and almost to no bowel every few feedings. I can't say she can handle 2-3 ml water every hour in good conciousmres. I just tried again and she's may have more congenital issues than 'digestion' I'll do what I can and check in late tonight. Appreciating the helpbut I am as concearned the history of no attempt, no nest as and no obvious prolonged time (0 parasites or wounds). Patience and maybe slow and steady with the dilution is better since this method is bloating her more. Must feel this out further

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Fine. Let's drop this ok.. too much drama and I have 4 adults who need help asap. Ok? Whatever was on long gone including the commented from a couple of people who liked to swing out on the board I happily left with an old device & private email I did not keep. Please remove the album since most are sideways or poor images as is.
    I'd like to focus on this baby and the adult soon to come If she can be found

    thank you


    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    I take it this is in reference to my comment, I will not apologize for an observation of what appeared to be an improper feeding technique and although I can understand your explanation I personally have not seen / read any "chronic referencing" to have set you off. Since you have "rehabbbed hundreds of every wild animal from gavages to syringes" I would think you could understand how that picture could send the wrong message especially to one that does not know any better. If I made any mistake in my posting, assuming that understanding was it.

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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSquirrelyGirl View Post
    She seems to need a bit of time out. clearly hurting after 1 ml fluid and almost to no bowel every few feedings. I can't say she can handle 2-3 ml water every hour in good conciousmres.
    BSG,
    Duckman said to give about 0.2-0.3 ml every hour. Not 2-3 mLs.
    Yeah if she is bloating, have you tried putting her in warm water, up to her armpits,
    and massaging her belly in a downward motion?
    Sometimes that will help with bloat.
    Make sure to dry her off completely when done.
    You can also give simethicone drops.

    Go to this page and go about 2/3 of a way down.
    It tells how to do the warm water soak.
    https://www.squirrelsandmore.com/pag...-baby-squirrel


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    Default Re: New baby stopped feces

    Oh oh yes thank you the soak/massage.. fid say I've tried the soak, know the method well from the very start! 😞 Complete drying and risking hypothermia is an issue I pound into volunteers as well supposed seasoned care-takers as well as NOT 'cooking', or barely mixing formula with syringe plungers, swapping supplies between cages! I'm diligent about hygiene and fragile, delicate immune sys orphans while training on these issues.
    She's making herself clearly heard..'discomfort' and I'm I hope the water will eventually help more the next few hours. As of now I might get a lil pin head poo every few feedings. There is a lot info to read, but I went for the obvious first ! I.E. (massagstroking in warm bath to shoulders. I've done it many times. With her she only seems a bit sleepy and less stressed not to be fed and stimulated with nothing coming.
    I do take my time feeding and stimulating, just in case you were worried I wasn't giving her ample time to void. She writhes for a good five min until put in her box with 'toy ' stuffed mommy. She'll try at first to rest upright to take pressure off her belly and stretch/get comfy, but quickly with go to them end up beside the stuffy momma on the warm bottom of her nest.
    If you do scan the begging posts, I discuss I have done everything I do in the rehab center's and also what's worked over the years. I am of the opinion we can never be so closed minded we can't learn other methods. I have fought things vets miss and seen poor but 'poor rehabbers' dole out advise that was discredited long ago. That's is my concearned on the mixed info about good/bad/reformulated replacement mothers milk. There seems to be a revolving door of conflicting info. There are so many reasons formula can seem the culprit when it's the prep, rate of feeding time, etc. That's why I came in the board. Unfortunately not everyone has the time to read the entire thread and much time repeating myself or misread. We are all busy and usually tired with sicker ones. I also stated early in urine had not been an issue if you missed that.
    Thanks for the clarification on amt! I'm not on a reg laptop and these threads fonts can be tiny and easy to misspell, misread etc.

    thank you!!!

    R
    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    BSG,
    Duckman said to give about 0.2-0.3 ml every hour. Not 2-3 mLs.
    Yeah if she is bloating, have you tried putting her in warm water, up to her armpits,
    and massaging her belly in a downwards motion?
    Sometimes that will help with bloat.
    Make sure to dry her off completely when done.
    You can also give simethicone drops.

    Go to this page and go about 2/3 of a way down.
    It tells how to do the warm water soak.
    https://www.squirrelsandmore.com/pag...-baby-squirrel


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    Default Re: Baby still intermittent feces, but now more clear bloat

    We are doing similar prep. I dint have the many tikes, I usually have more but yes.. lag qty, mix with hot, not boiling water. Whisk mult times as is cools. Transfer to fridge in this case if a singlet for a 24 hour batch. Before warming each feeding I mix again and the misspelled above.. the bottle for a days servings has a great top that strains as you squeeze out filtering any lumps. With approx 1.5-2 ml for her weight it's easiest to put in a very small glass jar and warm in hot water bath. If it begins to he to cool, I refill needed remainder with earm
    solution. Her body position is crucial as she has trouble reaching . Mint miracle nipple arriving by Thurs.
    this is really a digestion prob. I am thinking this is her gut/says not the formula
    Nany thanks. 🙏🏼
    Always please forgive spell on mini screen

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    Just throwing this out there.
    When I make Esbilac I make large quantities with VERY HOT water.
    Probably at least 4 cups of mixed formula at a time.
    I freeze them in little containers.
    BUT what I've notice is that when I mix the larger
    quantities, I seem to be able to get it pretty well dissolved,
    by using a large whisk in a large bowl.
    I let it sit on the counter, for ~ an hour whisking every 10 minutes
    or so, then I put it in the regrig. for 6-8 hours, whisking occassionally.
    Right before putting it into little containers with lids, I whisk it again, and then
    freeze.
    I wonder if by me mixing larger quantities I'm able to dissolve it better?

    Oh yes, Fox Valley 20/50 IS easier to mix for sure.

  25. Serious fuzzy thank you's to SquirrelSense from:

    Nancy in New York (08-08-2017)

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