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Thread: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

  1. #21
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    Smile Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    Please keep Rocky confined in a small cage for a little while. It is too easy for him to injure himself.
    Well, i have tried and he hates that! Im afraid he'll injury himself fussing to get out. He wants to play and be with me or my daughter but we're trying to be very careful and keep him from being active. Ive been worried about him playing every since we saw the vet! He usually just snuggles in a blanket beside one of us. I'll definitely try to encourage him to stay in his smaller cage as much as possible though! Thank you!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by UDoWhat View Post
    I believe he is not getting enough Esbilac to provide enough calcium to prevent MBD. I would begin the Emergency MDB treatment immediately. I wonder if he might eat more of the sweet potato and avocado then the other choices. As I tell all newbies, please take away all food other then rodent block, monkey chow If kids are offered candy and cookies they will choose that over lettuce and broccoli every time. Squirrels are a lot like kids in that way. Also increase the amount of formula 2x per day very slowly or he will get diarrhea. We usually feed 5-7% of a squirrels daily body weight. At this point your squirrel should be getting at least 15 ccs 2x per day. That would be at least 30 cc of formula. However, do not try to feed that much formula now as he will get rip roaring diarrhea from over feeding. His system is not use to it. I would try to increase the Esbilac to at least 6 cc at every feeding and see how that goes. If he gets a soft stool don't increase the next day. The only sure way to know if this is low calcium is a blood test. I would ask the Vet to do a blood test to include calcium levels. However, I think the problem is MBD. Please follow the MBD treatment very closely. If this is low calcium you will see improvement in even a few hours sometimes. But continue the treatment for the prescribed course. It takes a long time to build up calcium in the body even though the effects of calcium restoration can be seem sooner. Here is the link to MBD TREATMENT.

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-MBD-Treatment
    Thank you for the advice! I will get started with that right away! Though my question now is what if he doesn't want the formula anymore since he's been weaning? I thought the nut squares I have been giving him replaced the formula as far as nutrition. Are they the same as the rodent block? And he only gets a tiny little slice of avocado once a day. One avocado lasts him over a week. Same with the sweet potato. A tiny piece and only after eating the nut square first. I will certainly discontinue giving him those. What about the broccoli and green salad mix? And he loves the little tree sticks. Should he not be eating those? Thank you for your help! Just so confused about his diet now! Really trying to do what's right for him!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockysmom View Post
    Thank you for the advice! I will get started with that right away! Though my question now is what if he doesn't want the formula anymore since he's been weaning? I thought the nut squares I have been giving him replaced the formula as far as nutrition. Are they the same as the rodent block? And he only gets a tiny little slice of avocado once a day. One avocado lasts him over a week. Same with the sweet potato. A tiny piece and only after eating the nut square first. I will certainly discontinue giving him those. What about the broccoli and green salad mix? And he loves the little tree sticks. Should he not be eating those? Thank you for your help! Just so confused about his diet now! Really trying to do what's right for him!!
    Sorry for the confusion. If he was eating block as 75% of his diet then all the items you mentioned are perfect. You could feed him nuts and anything else if he was eating 75 % rodent block. The only way to get him to eat correctly now is to take the "good stuff" away until he will readily eating a good rodent block. I need to research this nut square. I am not familiar with it. Please give me the name and maker of it. I wish it was the magic bullet. It would be wonderful but I am afraid it may not be enough. But one can hope. The closest thing we have is HHBs. They were developed specifically for squirrels by a member of this board and has a company that sells this supplement. The name is Henry's Healthy Block. 2 of these blocks a day are designed to provide 100% of squirrel nutrition a day. You still need to add other foods to get enough calories per day. HHBs are a supplement not the only food. Google Henry's Healthy Pets. You will find the wedsite and go to the squirrel nutrition section.
    I know this is all confusing. I would go to the pet store and buy Kaytee rodent block. Put it in his cage and see if he will eat it. Take the other stuff away until he is eating the Kaytee readily. Or order the Henry's Block supplements. He must eat 2 HHBs first before he gets any other solid foods that day. The idea is eating a good Block or HHBs readily first then you give other solid foods. It is not easy to change a squirrels diet but you will never have to worry about MBD again if Block or HHB supplements are the main diet.
    UDoWhat
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  5. #24
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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by UDoWhat View Post
    Sorry for the confusion. If he was eating block as 75% of his diet then all the items you mentioned are perfect. You could feed him nuts and anything else if he was eating 75 % rodent block. The only way to get him to eat correctly now is to take the "good stuff" away until he will readily eating a good rodent block. I need to research this nut square. I am not familiar with it. Please give me the name and maker of it. I wish it was the magic bullet. It would be wonderful but I am afraid it may not be enough. But one can hope. The closest thing we have is HHBs. They were developed specifically for squirrels by a member of this board and has a company that sells this supplement. The name is Henry's Healthy Block. 2 of these blocks a day are designed to provide 100% of squirrel nutrition a day. You still need to add other foods to get enough calories per day. HHBs are a supplement not the only food. Google Henry's Healthy Pets. You will find the wedsite and go to the squirrel nutrition section.
    I know this is all confusing. I would go to the pet store and buy Kaytee rodent block. Put it in his cage and see if he will eat it. Take the other stuff away until he is eating the Kaytee readily. Or order the Henry's Block supplements. He must eat 2 HHBs first before he gets any other solid foods that day. The idea is eating a good Block or HHBs readily first then you give other solid foods. It is not easy to change a squirrels diet but you will never have to worry about MBD again if Block or HHB supplements are the main diet.

    Ok, I get it now! I looked up the HHBs and they look like the same type of square I'm using. The one I have is from Sugar Gliders USA and is provided by SquirrelNutrition.com. It claims that it is a nutritionally complete supplement for squirrels and to feed one square daily. The ingredients are rice flakes, pecans, sesame meal, brewers yeast, dolomite powder, vitamin c, alfalfa, salt, cod liver oil, coconut oil, and apples. I bought it through Amazon. He loves them and finishes them right away. But I think I'll go ahead and get some of the HHBs just to make sure!

    One other question if I may? When I was at PetCo looking for the calcium block (which they didn't have) I saw a product called Hamsteroids that says it's fruit-flavored calcium nuggets for mice, hamsters, rats, and guinea pigs. And then, another product that is called Mineral Ice Pops that claims to provide healthy minerals for rabbits, hamsters, rats, and chinchillas. Calcium is the main ingredient listed at 20%. Would either of these be ok as a supplement to try to get the extra calcium in him, secondary to the HHBs? Thank you again for all your help!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    You are getting excellent advice from UDoWhat, please follow it to a "T".

    As for the nut squares or whatever they're called. They are TRASH. Over the past 6 weeks I have been assisting on a case where the squirrel ate these as the "block".... he had chronic hyperparathyroidism (MBD) and sadly at just 3 years of age he died.

    The nutritional content of those squares is all out of whack and the amount of calcium is not even close to the daily requirement. The thing with the nutrition in block...it has to be balanced...those squares are NOT.

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    Smile Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockysmom View Post
    Ok, I get it now! I looked up the HHBs and they look like the same type of square I'm using. The one I have is from Sugar Gliders USA and is provided by SquirrelNutrition.com. It claims that it is a nutritionally complete supplement for squirrels and to feed one square daily. The ingredients are rice flakes, pecans, sesame meal, brewers yeast, dolomite powder, vitamin c, alfalfa, salt, cod liver oil, coconut oil, and apples. I bought it through Amazon. He loves them and finishes them right away. But I think I'll go ahead and get some of the HHBs just to make sure!

    One other question if I may? When I was at PetCo looking for the calcium block (which they didn't have) I saw a product called Hamsteroids that says it's fruit-flavored calcium nuggets for mice, hamsters, rats, and guinea pigs. And then, another product that is called Mineral Ice Pops that claims to provide healthy minerals for rabbits, hamsters, rats, and chinchillas. Calcium is the main ingredient listed at 20%. Would either of these be ok as a supplement to try to get the extra calcium in him, secondary to the HHBs? Thank you again for all your help!!
    Actually once we get him straightened out with the MBD protocol you really don't need a lot of other daily calcium. In fact too much calcium can lead to stones and crystals in the urine. This can lead to urine blockage which is painful and is serious. It certainly is ok to give one of those flavored calcium blocks. I have seen strawberry shapes, grape shapes and little ice crean cones and others. I give them as treats every once in a while. They like them for a couple of days. As far as the Sugar glider
    Calcium supplements I just need to see what the calcium numbers are. I don't see too much in the ingredient list that would provide enough calcium for a squirrel. Not sure. I don't know enough about them to say one way or the other yet. None of it sounds terrible just not that helpful. We are always looking for different things to keep our squirrels from not being bored with the same thing everyday. Once you get the HHBs and get solid on those we can figure out if anything else is needed to keep your baby healthy.
    UDoWhat
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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo's Mom View Post
    You are getting excellent advice from UDoWhat, please follow it to a "T".

    As for the nut squares or whatever they're called. They are TRASH. Over the past 6 weeks I have been assisting on a case where the squirrel ate these as the "block".... he had chronic hyperparathyroidism (MBD) and sadly at just 3 years of age he died.

    The nutritional content of those squares is all out of whack and the amount of calcium is not even close to the daily requirement. The thing with the nutrition in block...it has to be balanced...those squares are NOT.
    Wow!! Thanks for the info! Trusted that when it said it was "nutritionally complete" that it actually was!! And yes! I'm 100% following the advice from UDoWhat!! Wish I had found this site in the beginning!! Thank you for your help!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by UDoWhat View Post
    Actually once we get him straightened out with the MBD protocol you really don't need a lot of other daily calcium. In fact too much calcium can lead to stones and crystals in the urine. This can lead to urine blockage which is painful and is serious. It certainly is ok to give one of those flavored calcium blocks. I have seen strawberry shapes, grape shapes and little ice crean cones and others. I give them as treats every once in a while. They like them for a couple of days. As far as the Sugar glider
    Calcium supplements I just need to see what the calcium numbers are. I don't see too much in the ingredient list that would provide enough calcium for a squirrel. Not sure. I don't know enough about them to say one way or the other yet. None of it sounds terrible just not that helpful. We are always looking for different things to keep our squirrels from not being bored with the same thing everyday. Once you get the HHBs and get solid on those we can figure out if anything else is needed to keep your baby healthy.
    Unfortunately, only the ingredients are listed, not the nutritional percentages. I guess that should have been a red flag when I was looking into what to get. I am on the henryspets.com trying to order the HHBs now. Just to make sure, do I get the Healthy Blocks for Squirrels or the Hi-Protein Blocks for baby squirrels? Want to make sure I get the correct stuff this time!! Thanks so much for all your help!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I would get one of each. Maybe Milos Mom would weigh in here. She would know better about the difference between these 2 products. I have only used the adult blocks for for my adult squirrels. I usually start my rehab squirrels on Mazuri rodent blocks as they will soon leave for the trees.
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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I would go with the picky blocks on the Henry's site. I am on the phone with Henry's right now and the owner said Picky would be most readily accepted.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by UDoWhat View Post
    I would get one of each. Maybe Milos Mom would weigh in here. She would know better about the difference between these 2 products. I have only used the adult blocks for for my adult squirrels. I usually start my rehab squirrels on Mazuri rodent blocks as they will soon leave for the trees.
    I actually was thinking about doing that but just wanted to make sure before making any more mistakes!! Again, thank you so much for all the help! Truly appreciate your time and advice!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo's Mom View Post
    I would go with the picky blocks on the Henry's site. I am on the phone with Henry's right now and the owner said Picky would be most readily accepted.
    Thank you so much! Glad I checked for your response before getting off to order! Appreciate all the help and advice!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I just got some more info on those nut squares....

    Depending on which version you're using they contain 30mgs of calcium and negligible amounts of Vit. D, and who knows how much Phos. (the cod liver oil...it's a source of a variety of Vit. D)

    The Henry's blocks provide the full daily requirement and provide approximately (each variety is a bit different):
    Elemental Calcium 230mgs
    Vit D 50 I/U
    Phos 120mgs

    In order for the body to absorb and utilize the calcium it needs vit D. Too much Vit D can actually cause MBD, too much calcium and no D can cause other problems and MBD....it is a very delicate balance.

    Not that any of this matters anymore cause you're on the right track now, but figured I'd share the info cause it's pretty important.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I have nothing beneficial to add because you are getting advice from the experts (one of which I am not ) just wanted to mention that HHB's can mold. I order two bags at a time. I always put half a bag in the fridge and the rest in the freezer. Having a singleton, a bag can mold quicker than the two blocks a day will be fed.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlee413 View Post
    I have nothing beneficial to add because you are getting advice from the experts (one of which I am not ) just wanted to mention that HHB's can mold. I order two bags at a time. I always put half a bag in the fridge and the rest in the freezer. Having a singleton, a bag can mold quicker than the two blocks a day will be fed.
    Great advice ! I put mine in the freezer and take out what I need every night for the next morning. Expert advice comes from all of us when we are willing to share our thoughts and experiences. No matter if we are new at this or done it forever !!
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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo's Mom View Post
    I just got some more info on those nut squares....

    Depending on which version you're using they contain 30mgs of calcium and negligible amounts of Vit. D, and who knows how much Phos. (the cod liver oil...it's a source of a variety of Vit. D)

    The Henry's blocks provide the full daily requirement and provide approximately (each variety is a bit different):
    Elemental Calcium 230mgs
    Vit D 50 I/U
    Phos 120mgs

    In order for the body to absorb and utilize the calcium it needs vit D. Too much Vit D can actually cause MBD, too much calcium and no D can cause other problems and MBD....it is a very delicate balance.

    Not that any of this matters anymore cause you're on the right track now, but figured I'd share the info cause it's pretty important.
    Thank you for letting me know. I was feeling pretty bad that I ordered the wrong stuff. But, have both the Hi-Protein Blocks for baby squirrels and the Picky Blocks ordered now. Truly appreciate all the help!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by UDoWhat View Post
    Great advice ! I put mine in the freezer and take out what I need every night for the next morning. Expert advice comes from all of us when we are willing to share our thoughts and experiences. No matter if we are new at this or done it forever !!
    Thanks! Sure going to try not to make any more rookie mistakes!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Again, I would like to offer sincere thanks to all those that offered advice and helped to get me on the right track! I have looked at so many different sites about baby squirrels trying to figure out how to take care of him and thought I was following good advice! I think they all have good intentions and pieces of advice that seemed to work because I managed to keep him alive but just not enough to keep him healthy. Wish I had come across this place sooner and we certainly wouldn't be in this position now! But, we're here now so I know where to come and expect I'll have more questions as we navigate life with Rocky! Thanks and have a blessed day!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Hi everyone. I thought I would give you an update on Rocky. He is stubborn!!! I received the Hi-Protein Blocks, the Picky Blocks, the Fox Valley Formula, and the calcium from Henry's Healthy Pets. Many thanks to them! I was so impressed with the service from this company! The lady I spoke with was so kind and helpful. She got the order out immediately so I could get the boy started on it.

    Well, that first evening he immediately ate 3/4 of the Hi-Protein Block and I thought, "Well, that was easy"! Celebrated too soon. He wouldn't take it the next morning so I tried the Picky Blocks. No to that one, too. But I did get the calcium added to the Fox Valley, along with a little yogurt and once again he seemed to like it but it varies so much on how much he will eat it. I had pulled all other food options. Yesterday morning he took 14cc's and this morning I couldn't get him to even take a half. BUT, the little stinker all of a sudden decided he likes the Monkey Chow which up now he barely nibbled at! Glad for that as I had ordered a 50 lb. bag after I had read that was what to feed him and before I had realized exactly how much Monkey Chow that actually was! Lol! I'm still trying to offer the HHBs as first choice but right now he won't eat them at all. I expect he will eventually change his mind like he did with the Chow...........

    So then, since he wasn't reliably taking the formula, which meant he wasn't getting the calcium supplement, I smuggled the dose into tiny pieces of avocado since that is his most favorite. Well, so far that seems to be working! Fingers crossed he won't change his mind once again!! Since he is eating the Monkey Chow and the calcium supplement, I let him have some bok choy, spring mix, and a couple of pieces of white clover. Printed the healthy diet out and it's on the refrigerator now!

    And, after reading the thread on common mistakes, I think I figured out the original mistake I made which caused the MBD. I would make one day's supply of formula at a time. The first feeding it was warm and then went in the frig. Of course the next time it needed to be warmed. So I MICROWAVED IT! Ugh. Even though it was only for about 6 seconds I think it was enough to alter the nutritional content! So now I just use the water bath to warm it.

    Another problem I saw here was the sun exposure issue. Sigh. My husband was a good support and built Rocky a huge walk-in cage but it's on a covered patio that only gets bright light. Sooooo, we got the small cage ordered from Henry's Healthy Pets so he can get a little sun bathing in. Short time, shade available!

    So if there is anything here that you don't think I'm doing right or anything to be added, I would certainly appreciate it! I feel a lot more secure knowing you all are here! Thanks again for the help!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I think you are doing a great job! . Squirrels are finicky and unpredictable with what they choose to eat. But think about all the different stuff they eat in the wild. One day they may eat a flower, then not touch one for a week. I think it's the same when they're captive.

    A couple of weeks ago I listened to a talk about squirrel nutrition given by Dr. Emerson, who is one of the best squirrel vets around. Based on the squirrels she has seen in her practice, she feels very strongly that a captive squirrels diet should be 75% rodent block, like Zupreem, Harlan Teklad, Mazuri or Oxbow. The remaining 25% be veggies, with just 1-2 pieces of fruit a day. She also feels that they should be offered protein in the form of worms, bugs, eggs, etc. These are the things they would eat in the wild.

    As for sun, she recommends 30-60 minutes a day. A full spectrum UV light can be substituted. The bulbs should be replaced every 6 months because although they will still work, they do not emit enough UV rays after that time.

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