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Thread: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

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    Exclamation Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Hello all. I'm desperate for info on how to treat my little guy! I've had Rocky since he was only a couple of days old. We found him on the school playground after bad storms tore the nest apart. He is 10 1/2 weeks old now and I have been diligent in providing what I thought was a healthy diet. He has been raised on the esbilac formula with added heavy whipping cream, and now, as he is weaning, he gets a nut square a day, along with sweet potato, avocado, green beans, a spring mix lettuce, broccoli, and very small amounts of fruits. I've tried to get him to eat the zupreem monkey chow but he doesn't really like it.
    About a week ago he started limping and favoring his back leg. He was a little grumbly for a couple of days but still ate and played. I took him to a vet today and he suspected a break high on the femur so he did an xray. The vet said his bones are so bad and deteriorating. He could see several breaks but said they were trying to heal. He gave us some liquid ibuprofen and said he'd call around for advice on how to treat. I was just shocked that he could be in this condition. Despite his favoring his back leg, he races around like a nascar driver and still wants to play. His appetite is good and the back leg seems to be getting better. I don't know what to do to build his bones up and stop the deterioration! This is my first experience with raising a baby squirrel and I've been trying to do everything right for him. Just so frustrated and worried right now that he's not as healthy as I thought! I keep reading that you should give calcium supplements but I need to know the exact kind! Please forgive the length of the post but I thought the more background info the better! Thank you for your time. Please advise!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Wow!


    This is a stunner. It should not be. Can you tell me how you figured how much to feed and how often. What is his wt?

    By the way, I am near college park. The formula should have been good to provide good bones.

    At this age and stage of growth, the most important thing now is diet and diet. How long has he been weaned?

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    What is a nut square? His diet now seems to be lacking in some type of rodent chow

    There is a syrup called neocalcagon that is a good source of calcium.i will get more info on it in morning.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    Wow!
    This is a stunner. It should not be. Can you tell me how you figured how much to feed and how often. What is his wt?
    By the way, I am near college park. The formula should have been good to provide good bones.
    At this age and stage of growth, the most important thing now is diet and diet. How long has he been weaned?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockysmom View Post
    He has been raised on the esbilac formula with added heavy whipping cream,
    Which Esbilac formula, brand and type?
    Step-N-Stone
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    Unhappy Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    Wow!


    This is a stunner. It should not be. Can you tell me how you figured how much to feed and how often. What is his wt?

    By the way, I am near college park. The formula should have been good to provide good bones.

    At this age and stage of growth, the most important thing now is diet and diet. How long has he been weaned?
    I'm not sure if is where I respond or not but.......He's not completely weaned. He still gets the esbilac formula twice a day. He's getting about 3 or 4 of the 1.0ml syringes twice a day but sometimes he wants a couple of more and sometimes he only takes 2 or 3. But he always gets the one nut square and veggies that are always available. I thought the formula would have given him all the nutrition he needed until weaned but apparently not! Thanks for responding!!! I'm still trying to figure this web site out!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    Which Esbilac formula, brand and type?
    I've been using the Esbilac dry puppy milk replacer and adding the heavy whipping cream. 2 parts water to 1 part Esbilac to 1/4 part whipping cream. Thanks for responding!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    What is a nut square? His diet now seems to be lacking in some type of rodent chow

    There is a syrup called neocalcagon that is a good source of calcium.i will get more info on it in morning.
    The nut square I've been giving him is from Sugar Gliders USA. It is the Squirrel Nut Squares and is provided from SquirrelNutrition.com. I will look into the neocalcagon syrup! Thank you for responding!!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockysmom View Post
    I've been using the Esbilac dry puppy milk replacer and adding the heavy whipping cream. 2 parts water to 1 part Esbilac to 1/4 part whipping cream. Thanks for responding!!
    Is it Pet Ag as pictured below or Pet Lac?

    Name:  i-fbcDH6c-S.jpg
Views: 225
Size:  65.8 KB
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    Is it Pet Ag as pictured below or Pet Lac?

    Name:  i-fbcDH6c-S.jpg
Views: 225
Size:  65.8 KB
    Yes, this is the one I have been using!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I ordered calcium bicarbonate by a company called NOW. (Does not contain Vit D). I just mix in a little with Sandy's formula and I read on TSB that it can be "dusted" onto their food as well. Sandy is about 8.5 weeks old. The big bottle was only about $9 on Amazon and will last A LONG time.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    This almost sounds like brittle bone in humans. Never heard of it in squirrels.

    What is your guys weight? Formula is good. Feeding him 2x now as he is getting close to weaning is good. Is your vet an exotic vet? Surprised you could get him seen. Maryland is not especially squirrel friendly. We have an excellent vet in Laurel if you have any concerns about yours. Please don't take offense at questioning your vet. I find there is a large range of expertise concerning squirrels. Did you get blood work done? That would tell a lot concerning ability of your boy being able to absorb nutrition that he is getting.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    I ordered calcium bicarbonate by a company called NOW. (Does not contain Vit D). I just mix in a little with Sandy's formula and I read on TSB that it can be "dusted" onto their food as well. Sandy is about 8.5 weeks old. The big bottle was only about $9 on Amazon and will last A LONG time.
    Thank you! I will look into that!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    This almost sounds like brittle bone in humans. Never heard of it in squirrels.

    What is your guys weight? Formula is good. Feeding him 2x now as he is getting close to weaning is good. Is your vet an exotic vet? Surprised you could get him seen. Maryland is not especially squirrel friendly. We have an excellent vet in Laurel if you have any concerns about yours. Please don't take offense at questioning your vet. I find there is a large range of expertise concerning squirrels. Did you get blood work done? That would tell a lot concerning ability of your boy being able to absorb nutrition that he is getting.
    He's 299 grams. I'm not sure if that's a good weight for him or not. He looks healthy and eats well. I did have trouble finding someone to look at him but the vet I found was an exotic pets person. He didn't do any blood work, just the xray to check out his bones. He seemed be knowledgeable but was stumped on why his bones were in that condition. He said the diet I have been giving him is good and he's used that before himself. He said he was going to call around for advice and call me back today. I'm going to go get a calcium block and am upping the squirrel blocks to 3 a day. Opinion on this course of treatment is welcome and any additional advice is appreciated!! Thank you!!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockysmom View Post
    Hello all. I'm desperate for info on how to treat my little guy! I've had Rocky since he was only a couple of days old. We found him on the school playground after bad storms tore the nest apart. He is 10 1/2 weeks old now and I have been diligent in providing what I thought was a healthy diet. He has been raised on the esbilac formula with added heavy whipping cream, and now, as he is weaning, he gets a nut square a day, along with sweet potato, avocado, green beans, a spring mix lettuce, broccoli, and very small amounts of fruits. I've tried to get him to eat the zupreem monkey chow but he doesn't really like it.
    About a week ago he started limping and favoring his back leg. He was a little grumbly for a couple of days but still ate and played. I took him to a vet today and he suspected a break high on the femur so he did an xray. The vet said his bones are so bad and deteriorating. He could see several breaks but said they were trying to heal. He gave us some liquid ibuprofen and said he'd call around for advice on how to treat. I was just shocked that he could be in this condition. Despite his favoring his back leg, he races around like a nascar driver and still wants to play. His appetite is good and the back leg seems to be getting better. I don't know what to do to build his bones up and stop the deterioration! This is my first experience with raising a baby squirrel and I've been trying to do everything right for him. Just so frustrated and worried right now that he's not as healthy as I thought! I keep reading that you should give calcium supplements but I need to know the exact kind! Please forgive the length of the post but I thought the more background info the better! Thank you for your time. Please advise!
    I too am so afraid of my single boy developing MBT. He still just pulls apart the Henry's blocks and I fear this awful bone disease. My boy is only 7weeks old, and not yet on other foods from his formula and the Henry's blocks....which he doesn't really eat more than a speck of.
    I put a call in to the company that makes Esbilac puppy, asking how much calcium do they get per kg of body weight in the formula I am feeding. They phoned back to say that they have one of their nutritionists working this out, and will get back to me with the info.
    This will help only so long as the squirrel has not self weaned from the formula.
    I will post any further info that I can find, and hope that this knowledgeable membership will let all know which info is correct and which not completely.
    Senior members, your help with getting sufficient calcium into these baby squirrels, will be so very appreciated.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockysmom View Post
    I'm not sure if is where I respond or not but.......He's not completely weaned. He still gets the esbilac formula twice a day. He's getting about 3 or 4 of the 1.0ml syringes twice a day but sometimes he wants a couple of more and sometimes he only takes 2 or 3. But he always gets the one nut square and veggies that are always available. I thought the formula would have given him all the nutrition he needed until weaned but apparently not! Thanks for responding!!! I'm still trying to figure this web site out!!
    Sorry I missed where you said that you are giving him 6 to 8 cc of formula. This might be where we can look a bit deeper for this brittle bone dilemma. Please tell me how you figured out how many times a day and how much to feed him every day. How old do you think he was when you found him?

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanP View Post
    I too am so afraid of my single boy developing MBT. He still just pulls apart the Henry's blocks and I fear this awful bone disease. My boy is only 7weeks old, and not yet on other foods from his formula and the Henry's blocks....which he doesn't really eat more than a speck of.
    I put a call in to the company that makes Esbilac puppy, asking how much calcium do they get per kg of body weight in the formula I am feeding. They phoned back to say that they have one of their nutritionists working this out, and will get back to me with the info.
    This will help only so long as the squirrel has not self weaned from the formula.
    I will post any further info that I can find, and hope that this knowledgeable membership will let all know which info is correct and which not completely.
    Senior members, your help with getting sufficient calcium into these baby squirrels, will be so very appreciated.
    Thanks for responding! I'd be interested in hearing what answer you get about the formula. From everything I've read that's supposed to be the preferred one to use. Good luck with your little guy, too!

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanP View Post
    I too am so afraid of my single boy developing MBT. He still just pulls apart the Henry's blocks and I fear this awful bone disease. My boy is only 7weeks old, and not yet on other foods from his formula and the Henry's blocks....which he doesn't really eat more than a speck of.
    I put a call in to the company that makes Esbilac puppy, asking how much calcium do they get per kg of body weight in the formula I am feeding. They phoned back to say that they have one of their nutritionists working this out, and will get back to me with the info.
    This will help only so long as the squirrel has not self weaned from the formula.
    I will post any further info that I can find, and hope that this knowledgeable membership will let all know which info is correct and which not completely.
    Senior members, your help with getting sufficient calcium into these baby squirrels, will be so very appreciated.
    Please direct me to your boys thread so we can give you specific help for your lad. If you don't have a thread, I would love it if you would start one so we can learn about you and your boy. We also love pictures!

    Trysh

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    I believe he is not getting enough Esbilac to provide enough calcium to prevent MBD. I would begin the Emergency MDB treatment immediately. I wonder if he might eat more of the sweet potato and avocado then the other choices. As I tell all newbies, please take away all food other then rodent block, monkey chow If kids are offered candy and cookies they will choose that over lettuce and broccoli every time. Squirrels are a lot like kids in that way. Also increase the amount of formula 2x per day very slowly or he will get diarrhea. We usually feed 5-7% of a squirrels daily body weight. At this point your squirrel should be getting at least 15 ccs 2x per day. That would be at least 30 cc of formula. However, do not try to feed that much formula now as he will get rip roaring diarrhea from over feeding. His system is not use to it. I would try to increase the Esbilac to at least 6 cc at every feeding and see how that goes. If he gets a soft stool don't increase the next day. The only sure way to know if this is low calcium is a blood test. I would ask the Vet to do a blood test to include calcium levels. However, I think the problem is MBD. Please follow the MBD treatment very closely. If this is low calcium you will see improvement in even a few hours sometimes. But continue the treatment for the prescribed course. It takes a long time to build up calcium in the body even though the effects of calcium restoration can be seem sooner. Here is the link to MBD TREATMENT.

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-MBD-Treatment

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Please keep Rocky confined in a small cage for a little while. It is too easy for him to injure himself.

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    Default Re: Please advise! Need help with mbd!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    Sorry I missed where you said that you are giving him 6 to 8 cc of formula. This might be where we can look a bit deeper for this brittle bone dilemma. Please tell me how you figured out how many times a day and how much to feed him every day. How old do you think he was when you found him?
    He was only a day or two old when I found him, very tiny, totally pink and no hair. I followed the feeding schedule found on the squirreltales.org website. For the first 3 weeks, it was every 2 hours, and then gradually went to 3 hours, 4 hours, etc., over the next few weeks. I tried to be pretty diligent about following the recommended schedule because I've never done this before. Once he was crawling I fed him as much as he wanted which was usually 7 to 10 of the 1ml syringes but sometimes more, depending if he still wanted to eat. The first solid I introduced was the monkey chow bisquits but he barely nibbled at them. Next came the sweet potatoes and avocados which he loves. Since he wouldn't eat the monkey chow, I ordered the squirrel nut squares. He seems to have a healthy appetite and ONLY gets veggies and a very small amount of fruit, like one blueberry or a ltitle piece of strawberry. I haven't given him nuts or corn yet. I think he's close to being weaned from the formula because he only will take a couple of syringes when offered two or three times a day. He has started drinking a little water so I think he's staying hydrated and definitely no issues with the pooping! Im just so confused about where I went wrong with his diet and why his bones are so bad!! Any thoughts?? Thanks for answering!

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