Alternitive Phosphorus / Calcium balance than squirrel blocks

[niapet]

Our little Imp has never been willing to eat squirrel blocks. We have TRIED BELIEVE you me! Anyway, we try to vary his diet but his teeth are getting brittle or wearing too fast? This might be due to the fact he chews a LOT, or that he is getting old. I'm not really sure. Anyway I have started to supplement him on calcium to be safe.

The best way to give him calcium is in his water, he drinks a lot of water. The problem is, most calcium supplements are calcium carbonate, or calcium citrate. Neither of these compounds have a good solubility in room temperature water. So, being a chemist, I decided to try calcium acetate, since it is highly soluble in water. Its fairly expensive compared to other calcium salts so I just make it myself from calcium carbonate.

There are two major bonuses with this supplementation regimen. Firstly, CaAc is not only highly water soluble, it is pretty tasteless in as well. Secondly, it turns out CaAc is a cheating agent for Phosphate. People with kidney problems are given CaAc as a supplement to lower the amount of Phosphate that enters the blood, and to protect their bones! This is GREAT. This means, not only will CaAc supplement calcium, it will reduce Phosphates in squirrels diets. This should be a great solution for preventing, and treating MBD.

What do you all think? My background is in Biochemistry so, while I know a lot about dietary chemistry, thoughts from a medical professional would be welcome.

[Nancy in New York]

You will find this post interesting.
#9 in this thread below.
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...hlight=Calcium

[Milo's Mom]

I am far far far from a medical professional, but I do find this all very interesting, as I have a girl that has kidney issues and is currently taking an phosphate binder. (aluminum hydroxide)

[HRT4SQRLS]

Thanks for the info niapet. I'm looking forward to studying this interesting idea. It sounds like a total WIN WIN. I think your auto-correct changed a very important word in the third paragraph. I think it changed 'chelating' to 'cheating'.

If you can deliver more calcium and bind (chelate) the phosphate at the same time I can't see a down side. I will be looking into this for myself as I have thinning bones.

[niapet]

Yeah it did, but chelating is technically wrong anyway, since phosphorus isn't a metal, and even if it were, its a complex ion =P. I should have said, "phosphate ion sequestering agent". =D

edit: I should probably point out that sequestering ALL phosphates would not be good. Even squirrels need some of it, since it is essential for DNA and RNA synthesis.

[HRT4SQRLS]

How would you find a balance on this? Would the sequestering properties be short lived?

[niapet]

I would imagine it would only sequester the phosphate when the CaAc was actually in the stomach/blood. It is also very water soluble so it will be absorbed fast. It might be a good idea to put a little CaAc powder on any high phosphorus treats, like tree nuts, avocado etc..

I would guess it would be hard to have so little phosphorus that it would become a problem. Literally ALL food has it, since all food comes from living things that have DNA. However I am not 100% sure about that. If one flooded the squirrel's diet with waaaaay too much CaAc it may be bad. But it seems like too much phosphorus is far more of an issue for squirrels than too little; so I would guess it is safe to use as a supplement, as long as you don't go crazy and give them grams of it every day.

"Symptoms of phosphorus deficiency include loss of appetite, anxiety, bone pain, fragile bones, stiff joints, fatigue, irregular breathing, irritability, numbness, weakness, and weight change. In children, decreased growth and poor bone and tooth development may occur."
-umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/phosphorus

I would definitely notice if our squirrel's appetite went away =D

[Gardentoes11]

How do you dose this? I'm interested, as I have other species of pets in addition to my precious squirrel & rehabs whose calcium intake is a concern.

Also, do you also supplement vitamin D to ensure calcium absorption? I'm no chemist by any stretch of the imagination, so I'm open to advice on this most important of issues!

[SlowcarIX]

How about just throw one of these into the cage, provides Ca and also trace elements...

[niapet]

For dosing, there are a couple options. If you have a sensitive scale, you can use that. If your scale is not very sensitive, you could mix a up a solution, like 100 grams in a liter and you would know you had 100 mg/ml for adding to their water.

For the vitamin D, Imp eats a lot of mushrooms, which are pretty high in vitamin D. I would guess dietary intake of vitamin D would be a better choice than supplements?

On that picture in the next post, I don't know what that is. The major advantage of something like calcium acetate is that it provides calcium with no phosphorus, while sequestering dietary phosphorus. This is useful to me because I'm trying to raise the ration for him since he is 9 this year and quite set in his ways. He is going to eat "junk food" or starve.. he really is that stubborn about it...

[Nancy in New York]

For dosing, there are a couple options. If you have a sensitive scale, you can use that. If your scale is not very sensitive, you could mix a up a solution, like 100 grams in a liter and you would know you had 100 mg/ml for adding to their water.

For the vitamin D, Imp eats a lot of mushrooms, which are pretty high in vitamin D. I would guess dietary intake of vitamin D would be a better choice than supplements?

On that picture in the next post, I don't know what that is. The major advantage of something like calcium acetate is that it provides calcium with no phosphorus, while sequestering dietary phosphorus. This is useful to me because I'm trying to raise the ration for him since he is 9 this year and quite set in his ways. He is going to eat "junk food" or starve.. he really is that stubborn about it...

Thanks for the info.
I believe that picture above is a bird cuttlebone.

[SlowcarIX]

Nancys right, cuttlebone.

https://www.petcha.com/cuttlebone-what-is-it/

The squirrel will eat as much Ca as its body feel is required...

My 3 squirrels are fed mazuri blocks, eats a lot of veg and hazelnut...they go thru one piece every 2 weeks

[niapet]

The squirrel will eat as much Ca as its body feel is required...

This is not right. It is a popular myth that food cravings are tied to nutritional requirements but there is no supporting evidence for this. Animals crave what they have evolved to crave. If we could just trust our squirrels to eat what they need, then it would seem Imp needs hazel nuts, all day, every day =P

Edit: I should probably expand on this a bit, because it seems like evolution would drive us to crave vitamins and minerals we need. But nature is lazy, and takes the easiest path. In our evolutionary history, all the vitamins and minerals we need can be had from fruits and vegetables. What our ancestors developed a craving for was the simple sugars in theses food items, and since there was no coca-cola, or candy, to satiate these cravings, we would seek out the foods that had sugar, and got other things we needed at the same time. Because of this there was no need to crave the nutrients directly at the same time; we were already eating them because we liked the sugar.

How does this apply to squirrels? I have no idea. Maybe they do crave bone for Ca supplementation, but maybe they dont. That could be dangerous. I have tried to give Imp bones and antlers and he has no interest in them. It is possible that SlowcarIX's little fluff balls will eat enough calcium in bones, but i would be careful about assuming all squirrels will do the same.

[SlowcarIX]

here in China, pretty much ALL pet squirrels are fed a diet of sunflower seeds, apples and more sunflower seeds. I am on a chinese squirrel forum and many of them when they let the squirrels out of the cage, they go straight to the wall and chew the plaster off it, which consist mainly of CaSO4 and some even chew up the grout between floor tiles.

Is there a possibility a "softer" form of Ca like cuttlebone my be palatable to your squirrel? Maybe the antlets and bones is hard for it to chew as it already has weak and painful teeth?

I feel for your squirrels...for being a part of your mad chemistry experiment

[niapet]

Well Imp chews the walls too... and cabinets... and cell phones.. and shoes... and guitars... and mumble on on on everything that exits. =P