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Thread: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

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    Exclamation Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Hello everyone, I have a little eastern grey named Chip. I found him about a week ago and he just opened his eyes yesterday, so I am guessing he is 5 weeks old. He is 54 grams. I have been feeding him the suggested puppy formula Esbilac with a 3cc syringe. He is now eating between 2 and 3 cc every 2 to 3 hours.
    The day before yesterday he began making clicking noises when he was breathing and then yesterday he started sneezing so I immediately called the vet and took him in to be checked out. The vet said he has pneumonia and prescribed him an immune booster, Baytril, and also prescribed him another antibiotic that apparently had to be called in to another pharmacy to be specially made. He said they would contact me over the phone to pay for the antibiotic and then they would send it to me in a day or two. I do not know the name of the second antibiotic, I've yet to receive a call.
    My question is, Is it necessary for him to be on a second antibiotic? The vet said Bayril only kills certain types of bacteria and the other antibiotic will kill the other types, but I have been doing a lot of research and I can't find anything saying to have them on something else with Baytril. I am just concerned that having him on two antibiotics could do more harm than good to his fragile little body.
    Thank you so much for your help and I'm looking forward to hearing back from everyone.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Welcome to TSB! Thanks for saving little Chip!

    Meds are certainly not my forte, but someone who knows should be on soon! Can you post the dosage/strength of the Baytril, too? Some vets get the dosage wrong on these little ones and we always like to double check.

    PS - we love pictures!!

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    The bottle of Baytril says it is 25mg/ml and he is taking .03 ml 2 times a day. The immune booster is Red Palm Oil and he is taking .05 ml once a day. I am so so concerned about him, it breaks my heart into a million pieces knowing he is sick. Pneumonia is nothing to play around with! He is such a sweet little guy, he deserves a long happy life and I am trying to do everything in my power to give him just that!

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    The bottle of Baytril says it is 25mg/ml and he is taking .03 ml 2 times a day. The immune booster is Red Palm Oil and he is taking .05 ml once a day. I am so so concerned about him, it breaks my heart into a million pieces knowing he is sick. Pneumonia is nothing to play around with! He is such a sweet little guy, he deserves a long happy life and I am trying to do everything in my power to give him just that!
    Someone will be on to check that soon!!

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Also, I added an album to my profile with some photos of my little buddy! I'm having trouble posting them to the thread for some reason.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Here's Stosh's picture guide!!

    Quote Originally Posted by stosh2010 View Post
    TRY this---


    Click on paper clip icon-
    Click on ADD FILES ( upper right)--
    Click on BASIC UPLOADER-- ( for multiple pictures )
    Click on CHOOSE FILE ( find picture(s) you want)--
    Double click on picture--
    if you want to add another photo--Click on "+" box--
    Click on CHOOSE FILE ( no file chosen) it is directly above your first file selected--( max of 10 photos per post)
    Click on UPLOAD--
    Now you will see your selected files along the bottom.
    REMEMBER to place your cursor where you want the photos to appear in your message.
    Click on INSERT INLINE--
    Click on SUBMIT REPLY--
    ___________________________________________
    That should do it .....



    Try to post a photo here--so I know if you were able to do it....

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    The bottle of Baytril says it is 25mg/ml and he is taking .03 ml 2 times a day. The immune booster is Red Palm Oil and he is taking .05 ml once a day. I am so so concerned about him, it breaks my heart into a million pieces knowing he is sick. Pneumonia is nothing to play around with! He is such a sweet little guy, he deserves a long happy life and I am trying to do everything in my power to give him just that!
    Edit: It was brought to my attention that I overlooked that he was getting this dosage twice a day which would make that dose much higher than the guidelines we (TSB) use which comes from the Wild Mammal Babies rehabber book. I will PM you what the dose would be per WMB!


    I know little about Red Palm Oil but I found these:


    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Palm kernel oil is good. Palm seed oil is NOT. They are made from different parts of different trees. Read a little: http://www.livestrong.com/article/48...for-the-heart/

    BTW, the poisonous "palm" - the sago palm, is NOT A PALM. It is not even vaguely related to them - the leaf growth just looks kind of "palm-y." It is a cycad and is more closely related to ferns. They are prehistoric plants - the dinosaurs walked through forests of these things. This is why I HATE popular names for identifying plants - I know the Latin stuff is kind of unwieldy but it is the only way to know what you are actually dealing with...
    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/SU...tinfo/AVXSSF1/

    I use this with my parrots and have been known to put a little in his warmed gloppy food occasionally. It is red palm oil.
    Cannot advise about the 2nd antibiotic, but we typically would treat pneumonia with Baytril (preferred antibiotic)... it will be interesting to learn what the other med is when it arrives!


    Last edited by Spanky; 10-26-2016 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Okay, I just got a call from the pharmacy about his second prescription and it is called Doxycycline 10mg/ml. I've never heard of it, can anyone give me any info on if it is safe to give him? And is it safe to give him on top of the baytril?

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    Okay, I just got a call from the pharmacy about his second prescription and it is called Doxycycline 10mg/ml. I've never heard of it, can anyone give me any info on if it is safe to give him? And is it safe to give him on top of the baytril?
    Doxycycline is a very broad spectrum antibiotic and is safe to give to squirrels. We'd normally not start out with doxy on top of Baytril for aspiration pneumonia (AP) since we have seen good results with Baytril in treating AP.

    Once option may be to wait a day to two and if you do not see good improvement on the Baytril then ad the doxycycline on top of the Baytril. Or maybe double check with vet just to confirm he is treating for only AP.. is there a chance he might be treating for something else in addition to the pneumonia?

    Note: With Doxycycline it is very important to pay close attention to the expiration date. Unlike most drugs, antibiotics in particular, you do never want to use doxycycline past it's expiration date.



    Edit: I was just thinking after posting, your vet may be adding the doxycycline as "insurance".... that seems to be what he already suggested to you (when I reread the thread!).

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Okay just to update anyone that is reading the thread, he just finished with a feeding and I don't hear any more clicking! It has been just over 24 hours since his very first dose. I am going to keep listening and watching and do what spanky suggested (start him on the second antibiotic) if he does not continue to improve or if the clicking comes back.
    I was also wondering if anyone knows how active he should be at this age? He seems quite strong and he is waking up on his own for feedings. I also feel like he is a bit underweight based on other threads I have read abouy squirrels his age. I'm hoping he will start gaining some weight as he recovers from the pneumonia. Thank you sooo much for your advice!

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    Okay just to update anyone that is reading the thread, he just finished with a feeding and I don't hear any more clicking! It has been just over 24 hours since his very first dose. I am going to keep listening and watching and do what spanky suggested (start him on the second antibiotic) if he does not continue to improve or if the clicking comes back.
    I was also wondering if anyone knows how active he should be at this age? He seems quite strong and he is waking up on his own for feedings. I also feel like he is a bit underweight based on other threads I have read abouy squirrels his age. I'm hoping he will start gaining some weight as he recovers from the pneumonia. Thank you sooo much for your advice!
    They sleep a lot at this age, so not to worry.
    How long are you suppose to keep him on the Baytril?

    I just want to make sure that you are feeding the correct formula, so I'm reposting what I posted before.
    We've had members thinking they were using the Esbilac and they weren't.

    Also, below this I'm posting a weight chart fro the Wild Mammal Babies book that was posted by another member.
    Are you using a 1 cc syringe to feed, and do you have a heating pad half under his container?



    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    When buying PetAg puppy replacers make sure you are getting the correct one.
    We have had several members this week with very sick squirrels due to feeding
    the incorrect formula. (Through NO fault of their care takers, as it can be confusing)
    PetLac sits in the squirrels tummies like cement.
    They bloat, and can not defecate. This could cause death.
    You want to get the PetAg Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder

    NOT

    PetLac Puppy Milk Replacement Powder.................................................. ........................CORRECT FORMULA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody View Post
    Healthy Baby Squirrel Weight -

    Based on --Wild Mammal Babies 2nd Edition


    Birth ---: between 15 & 25 grams

    1 weeks: between 25 & 60 grams

    2 weeks: between 60 & 70 grams

    3 weeks: between 70 & 80 grams

    4 weeks: between 80 & 120 grams

    5 weeks: between 120 & 150 grams

    6 weeks: between 150 & 250 grams

    7-8 weeks: 250 grams and greater

    *weight may vary depending how long the orphan baby squirrel has been away from mom and or food.

    Another helpful link.
    Follow the link in blue.

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...-Squirrel-Care

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Thank you so much, all of that information was so helpful! I am actually feeding him the wrong formula . I will go tomorrow to get the correct formula, should I ween him off of the wrong formula or just switch over as soon as I get it? He isn't bloated or having any issues using the bathroom.
    He IS underweight for his age, that worries me alot. He also is not eating nearly as much as he should at his age. Is that just because of how underweight he is or is it because I have been feeding him the wrong formula?

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Oh, and the vet wants me to keep him on the baytril for one month. I already have another checkup scheduled for him in 3 weeks.
    Edit: He does have a heating pad and I am using a 3cc syringe with an o-ring and a small elongated nipple. Feeding him upright not on his back.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    Thank you so much, all of that information was so helpful! I am actually feeding him the wrong formula . I will go tomorrow to get the correct formula, should I ween him off of the wrong formula or just switch over as soon as I get it? He isn't bloated or having any issues using the bathroom.
    He IS underweight for his age, that worries me alot. He also is not eating nearly as much as he should at his age. Is that just because of how underweight he is or is it because I have been feeding him the wrong formula?
    We feed baby squirrels according to his weight and not his age. Just like people, weights can vary a lot from one to the next. You feed 5% to 7% of their weight, so a 100gram squirrel should get 5ml to 7ml every feeding. For a 54 gram squirrel that would be 2.7ml to 3.75ml. At his age (and being under-weight) I would feed him every 4 to 4.5 hours around the clock (I might let him go 6 hours overnight) until he starts packing on the grams!

    And yes, the wrong formula would have contributed to his being underweight. We have seen squirrel literally starve to death being fed certain "formulas" (kitten formula most notoriously). The good news is he is young and you can turn this around with diligence.

    Do you have a kitchen scale to weigh him? It is critical and they can be purchased at places like Wal Mart for $20 or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    Oh, and the vet wants me to keep him on the baytril for one month. I already have another checkup scheduled for him in 3 weeks.
    A month is a long time for treating aspiration pneumonia. We usually treat 7 - 10 days... makes me want to suggest you call the vet again to confirm the antibiotics are intended only for pneumonia?

    Speaking of antibiotics, it is a good idea and will help him a lot if you will give some pro-biotics 2 hours before or after each of his antibiotic doses. Just a small pinch from a acidophilus capsule. I just use the generic from whatever store I happen to buy them from.
    Last edited by Spanky; 10-26-2016 at 08:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    Thank you so much, all of that information was so helpful! I am actually feeding him the wrong formula . I will go tomorrow to get the correct formula, should I ween him off of the wrong formula or just switch over as soon as I get it? He isn't bloated or having any issues using the bathroom.
    He IS underweight for his age, that worries me alot. He also is not eating nearly as much as he should at his age. Is that just because of how underweight he is or is it because I have been feeding him the wrong formula?


    Many people get the formula confused, you're not alone.
    I would actually flush his system tomorrow for about 2 feedings.
    Then start him on the correct formula with a ratio of 1 part formula to 2 parts HOT water.
    We typically make this up ahead of time, and let it sit in the refrig for a few hours
    so everything dissolves correctly.
    Try to get a 1 mL syringe, it may work better for this size squirrel, being he's so small.

    We NEVER feed squirrels according to their age. I know that some do, but truth is, there is
    such a difference in weights on all these little ones we raise. We go by the 5-7% rule of thumb.
    BUT that is only a "rule of thumb"
    The bigger your little one gets, we will slowly increase his intake if he wants more.
    Another interesting link on the "Rule of Thumb"
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ule&highlight=

    I have NEVER heard of a squirrel being on Baytril for that long for pneumonia.
    We typically dose for 5-7 days.
    Are you giving probiotics?

    We're here to help, we will get through this, and your little one will thrive!
    Hang in there.

    I had 4 eyes closed babies that were over 200 grams. A member on the board
    SammysMom has a little one that was 7 weeks and 70 grams.
    I wrote this in her thread last month.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post

    7 weeks and 70 grams.
    And THIS is why we tell people NOT to
    feed according to the age of the squirrel.

    Bruiser, you couldn't get any cuter if you tried.



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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    We feed baby squirrels according to his weight and not his age. Just like people, weights can vary a lot from one to the next. You feed 5% to 7% of their weight, so a 100gram squirrel should get 5ml to 7ml every feeding. For a 54 gram squirrel that would be 2.7ml to 3.75ml. At his age (and being under-weight) I would feed him every 4 to 4.5 hours around the clock (I might let him go 6 hours overnight) until he starts packing on the grams!

    And yes, the wrong formula would have contributed to his being underweight. We have seen squirrel literally starve to death being fed certain "formulas" (kitten formula most notoriously). The good news is he is young and you can turn this around with diligence.

    Do you have a kitchen scale to weigh him? It is critical and they can be purchased at places like Wal Mart for $20 or so.



    A month is a long time for treating aspiration pneumonia. We usually treat 7 - 10 days... makes me want to suggest you call the vet again to confirm the antibiotics are intended only for pneumonia?

    Speaking of antibiotics, it is a good idea and will help him a lot if you will give some pro-biotics 2 hours before or after each of his antibiotic doses. Just a small pinch from a acidophilus capsule. I just use the generic from whatever store I happen to buy them from.
    I have a nice shopping list for tomorrow! I will be getting his Esibilac, a scale and the pro-biotics.
    I will give the vet a call tomorrow to verify that he is only treating for pneumonia, but if he is treating for something else he did not inform me about it. That's why I joined TSB, and I am so glad I did.
    As far as the time between feedings, he often has a hard time going more than 3 hours between feedings. He wakes up around 2 and a half hours after being fed and wanders all around trying to find a nipple. He refuses to rest until he eats haha. I'm sure thay will change once he is on the correct formula though.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    Many people get the formula confused, you're not alone.
    I would actually flush his system tomorrow for about 2 feedings.
    Then start him on the correct formula with a ratio of 1 part formula to 2 parts HOT water.
    We typically make this up ahead of time, and let it sit in the refrig for a few hours
    so everything dissolves correctly.
    Try to get a 1 mL syringe, it may work better for this size squirrel, being he's so small.

    We NEVER feed squirrels according to their age. I know that some do, but truth is, there is
    such a difference in weights on all these little ones we raise. We go by the 5-7% rule of thumb.
    BUT that is only a "rule of thumb"
    The bigger your little one gets, we will slowly increase his intake if he wants more.
    Another interesting link on the "Rule of Thumb"
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ule&highlight=

    I have NEVER heard of a squirrel being on Baytril for that long for pneumonia.
    We typically dose for 5-7 days.
    Are you giving probiotics?

    We're here to help, we will get through this, and your little one will thrive!
    Hang in there.

    I had 4 eyes closed babies that were over 200 grams. A member on the board
    SammysMom has a little one that was 7 weeks and 70 grams.
    I wrote this in her thread last month. [/FONT][/I][/B]
    Thank you for the support, I have been a nervous wreck the past couple days trying to figure out how to properly care for him. The pneumonia sent me over the edge with worry. It has made me feel so much better talking to everyone and getting expierenced advice. I also feel relieved that the clicking went away and still has not returned!
    I will be getting the proper formula and probiotics for him tomorrow. What do you mean by flushing his system? Is it better to wean or to flush?

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    What was the formula you have been feeding?

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
    What was the formula you have been feeding?
    The PetLac puppy milk replacement. The person in the petstore told me it was what I needed (but they don't know much). Neither did I though until now.

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    Default Re: Two different antibiotics for pneumonia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nina149 View Post
    Thank you for the support, I have been a nervous wreck the past couple days trying to figure out how to properly care for him. The pneumonia sent me over the edge with worry. It has made me feel so much better talking to everyone and getting expierenced advice. I also feel relieved that the clicking went away and still has not returned!
    I will be getting the proper formula and probiotics for him tomorrow. What do you mean by flushing his system? Is it better to wean or to flush?
    I mean I would give him only honey water for a few feedings, then start with the powdered puppy esbilac.
    You add just a tad of honey for taste to water, warm it like you do the formula and give the same amount.
    This will help get whatever you were feeding out of his system.
    Let us know what you were feeding, we may do a 50/50 switch with extra hydration in between.
    If it was PetLac, then I would say go with only honey water for a few feedings.. then start the formula.

    Sorry, I think I was typing slower, and didn't see Spanky's response above my last post.

    Edit: OK I see we were typing at the same time.
    Give him some honey water for a couple of feedings to get that ****/PetLac out of his system,
    then start the correct formula.
    Yeah, these people who work at these places really don't know what to feed squirrels.
    Last edited by Nancy in New York; 10-26-2016 at 11:10 PM.

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