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Thread: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

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    Fauna Guest

    Default "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    I am desperate for any and all help and suggestions, for my sweet little girl "Sooka Sweat P"
    My long time local wildlife vet is out of his office on a medical leave of his own for a few weeks I've been told, so I am desperately seeking advice where ever I can find it. let me tell you A little about me and "Sooka Sweet P"
    I worked for a local wildlife sanctuary 12 yrs ago when "sooka" was brought in as an injured and orphaned baby about 3 wk's old as a result of being knocked out of her nest from hurricane "Charley" along with her male sibling whom did not survive. She responded well to treatments and healed from all of her wounds: In which she had a laceration on her right shoulder, her right eye was temporarily blind her right ear was ripped and her right hand was severed in half, now this girl had the will to survive i could tell immediately she wanted to live, so her paw was stitched back together and her laceration on her shoulder was sewn up and her ear was cleaned up (which she only has half a right ear) and over time she regained her eye site in her right eye. Amazingly she thrived despite all her injuries, I hand fed her and cared and tended her wounds and dressings. i still expected to see her go back to the wild, once she healed up and was able to be introduced back into an enclosure with mates her age i did just that, she no longer came to me and was really integrating well with the others, so when it was time for her to be released I did so on my property (which was heavily wooded w/ lots of oaks and pine trees) with 5 other mates that she had become well adjusted with, sadly the next morning I discovered her in my yard injured yet again with no hair on her tail this time, which led me to believe she wasn't fearing predators the way she should to survive in the wild so i along with the wildlife vet at the time deemed her unfit to live in the wild due to her lack of fear for predators and so i asked if i could adopt her and was granted the right seeings how i cared for her originally and she seemed to have become partial to me and would allow only myself to handle her without biting me, she bit any one else who tried to handle her.

    So fast forward to now... Thurs 22nd Sept 2016 "Sooka" is now 12 yo and has been very healthy up and in till this past Thurs evening when she started displaying signs of lethargy and seeming like she is spacing out and unable to sit up with out my assistance it is truly breaking my heart to see her so sick. I've been advised by my personal vet that she could have (MBD) and from what I've been reading it can show signs abruptly as is her case or could show up slowly. Regardless she/we need help, my vet gave her sub Q fluids and a vitamin B12 shot yesterday and i started her on calcium supplements last night and have been administering every 3 hrs to her, she has shown very little progress, this morning she has eaten a little bit of a cherry tomato and a small bit of avocado with my help in holding her up. I am sick to my stomach to see her so ill and uncomfortable and i don't know what else to do, I've also put a call in to my local wildlife rescue org. and she's out of town for a conference. i feel stuck and desperate and I need some guidance "Sooka Sweet P" is my girl and she means the world to me and I am willing to do any thing needed to help her. so any and all advice is welcome at this point!

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    Shewhosweptforest (09-24-2016)

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Welcome Fauna! Wow, you sure have done a lot for her, it's obvious you love her a lot.

    Did you contact the vet about her not showing improvement? Did he check her blood sugar (spacing out/unable to sit up sound like that COULD be hypoglycemia.)

    What is her diet like? Have you changed it lately?

    Also, I'm not sure how long squirrels live in captivity, but is it possible this is old age related and not MBD?

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    Shewhosweptforest (09-24-2016)

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Wow....what an amazing love story....such a lucky girl to have survived Hurricane Charley, her injuries and then to landed in a forever home that must be phenomenal....her 12 years attest to that it sounds like you're doing well on the MBD protocol.....we have our own here you may want to read through to see if there's anything else you could be doing....the other thing you could do is give her some infant ibuprofen to help with the pain....also keeping her on heat will help with her achiness

    Welcome and thank you for saving and loving Sookie Sweet P

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...-MBD-Treatment
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    The Peace of Wild Things
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    When despair for the world grows in me
    and I wake in the night at the least sound
    in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
    I go and lie down where the wood drake
    rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
    I come into the peace of wild things
    who do not tax their lives with forethought
    of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
    And I feel above me the day-blind stars
    waiting with their light. For a time
    I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.

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    MissAmy (09-26-2016)

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    I'd keep with the calcium and try offering
    Ensure. A little extra calcium carbonate
    powder can be added.
    Lots of good healthy calories.
    A heat source for pain.
    Tramadol can be given if you have access
    to some we can dose it for you.

    Scurry Central
    living and loving squirrel

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    Shewhosweptforest (09-24-2016), TubeDriver (09-27-2016)

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Cava had a point about her age....I know squirrels have lived 20 years in captivity....but that is not the norm....Sookie has outlived any squirrels I've personally heard about...but I know 15 is doable since the vet suggested MBD I'm guessing that is what it is....I wonder if geriatric squirrels become higher risk....they're less active etc. it's a concern with humans ....bone loss

    We would love to see some pics of your girl...and advice on what you've done to have such a long lived girl...my Baby is 5 1/2 years old....I pray she lives as long as Sookie
    Make the world a better place...one animal at a time



    The Peace of Wild Things
    BY WENDELL BERRY
    When despair for the world grows in me
    and I wake in the night at the least sound
    in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
    I go and lie down where the wood drake
    rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
    I come into the peace of wild things
    who do not tax their lives with forethought
    of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
    And I feel above me the day-blind stars
    waiting with their light. For a time
    I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.

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  11. #6
    Fauna Guest

    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Quote Originally Posted by cava View Post
    Welcome Fauna! Wow, you sure have done a lot for her, it's obvious you love her a lot.

    Did you contact the vet about her not showing improvement? Did he check her blood sugar (spacing out/unable to sit up sound like that COULD be hypoglycemia.)

    What is her diet like? Have you changed it lately?

    Also, I'm not sure how long squirrels live in captivity, but is it possible this is old age related and not MBD?
    ***yes mam and he thought she could be hypoglycemic as well, so i gave her some organic sugar water, maybe i should try that again as well?
    ***as far as her diet it's been the same she eats fresh veggies and fruits, i collect acorns for her and give them to her, as well as a variety of other hard nuts, she gets rodent blocks as well.
    ***when it was decided she would not be released again 12 yrs ago back to the wild and that i would keep her i did a little research and saw they could live about 9-12 yrs in captivity, however when i have researched lately i see 9-15 yrs.

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewhosweptforest View Post
    Cava had a point about her age....I know squirrels have lived 20 years in captivity....but that is not the norm....Sookie has outlived any squirrels I've personally heard about...but I know 15 is doable since the vet suggested MBD I'm guessing that is what it is....I wonder if geriatric squirrels become higher risk....they're less active etc. it's a concern with humans ....bone loss

    We would love to see some pics of your girl...and advice on what you've done to have such a long lived girl...my Baby is 5 1/2 years old....I pray she lives as long as Sookie
    *** thank you so so much ladies!! she was very active and alert and gets the run of the house when i'm home and thursday night about 4pm i observed her sitting still and not her self and I know her characteristics well and i could tell immediately she was not feeling well.
    *** i would happily post pictures and i was trying to but i don't know how to yet.
    *** As far as advice on her longevity is that i have luv'd her most passionately and spend lots of time with her and have always given her the very best of organic fresh food's, she has the ability to run all over the house and has a patio that she can be as close to the wild as she can that has potted plants just for her to play in and hide stuff in, and a tree to climb and play in as well. when i'm not home she has a 6' high critter condo that i secure her in so she is safe from household dangers when i'm unable to watch her. every night she makes her way to my closet to her bed in the top of my closet where she sleeps, and when the sun comes up she's up and running around playing with her kitty's this has been her routine for 12 yrs. they respect her as part of the pack as does my dogs. this is why it is so hard to see her down and so sick so suddenly.

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    If she isn't eating as much as you think she should it wouldn't hurt to give her a little sugar boost (or whatever you like to use.) Also, Ensure was suggested, may be syringe feed (not cold) if she absolutely stops eating. Especially when bodies are sick it has a higher caloric need and helping out can't hurt, just like offering heat and pain management. Make things easier for her.

    I hope she does live another three years. She sounds like a great buddy!

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    Shewhosweptforest (09-24-2016)

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    How much ELEMENTAL CALCIUM are you supplementing her with per day? To treat MBD you shoot for a dose of 500mg per day, spread as you are through multiple doses.

    Believe it or not, Tums antacids are a good source for calcium. That ia what they are made of, and the fruit flavored ones help with dosing because they don't taste awful. The milligram size on the bottle is NOT the amount of calcium per pill. Flip the bottle and look in the supplement facts box on the back to see how much you have to give to equal 500mg.

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Quote Originally Posted by cava View Post
    If she isn't eating as much as you think she should it wouldn't hurt to give her a little sugar boost (or whatever you like to use.) Also, Ensure was suggested, may be syringe feed (not cold) if she absolutely stops eating. Especially when bodies are sick it has a higher caloric need and helping out can't hurt, just like offering heat and pain management. Make things easier for her.

    I hope she does live another three years. She sounds like a great buddy!
    ***Thank you Cava, Sooka is a sweet little girl hence her name... (actually spelled sucre` and is french for sugar) I really apreciate the advice I will keep that in mind about the ensure should she stop eating all together. given her circumstances she's started to eat, although not what she would normally but it's a huge step in a better direction. I give her 1cc of calcium supplement every three hrs mixed w/flavored pedialyte and offer her several favorite soft food options as I know she doesn't have the strength to eat harder stuff, and then I do some lite ROM to keep her muscles moving and from getting stiff. I think She may have suffered a stroke because as I observe her trying to walk around she is walking in a right way circle.

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Aww poor gal. It sounds like you are doing everything you can for her. Are you giving her a little baby food buffet?
    Thanks for remembering the range of motion and moving her position periodically if she isn't doing it.

    I'm rooting for you guys!

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  22. #12
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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    How much ELEMENTAL CALCIUM are you supplementing her with per day? To treat MBD you shoot for a dose of 500mg per day, spread as you are through multiple doses.

    Believe it or not, Tums antacids are a good source for calcium. That ia what they are made of, and the fruit flavored ones help with dosing because they don't taste awful. The milligram size on the bottle is NOT the amount of calcium per pill. Flip the bottle and look in the supplement facts box on the back to see how much you have to give to equal 500mg.
    *** yes mam I am using the flavored tums and mixing it w/flavored pedialyte and giving her 1cc every three hrs, as suggested by my husband (he's a Dr. and a Pharmacist) and my vet. their a great team and are so passionate about helping me with Sooka.
    Thank you so so much for all your advice i really appreciate it!

  23. #13
    Fauna Guest

    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Quote Originally Posted by cava View Post
    Aww poor gal. It sounds like you are doing everything you can for her. Are you giving her a little baby food buffet?
    Thanks for remembering the range of motion and moving her position periodically if she isn't doing it.

    I'm rooting for you guys!
    ***no i had not thought of the baby food that sounds like a great idea, and I will definitely grab some of that and start giving her that as well to help build up some strength and calorie intake.
    ***yes mam she does try to move around, but as she does she doesn't have the strength to position herself well so I am always trying to help re-position her so she doesn't get stuck in an awkward way that will hurt her.
    Thank you so much for all the suggestions it is so very helpful and truly appreciated!

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    You are a great momma!

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  26. #15
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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    Quote Originally Posted by lilidukes View Post
    I'd keep with the calcium and try offering
    Ensure. A little extra calcium carbonate
    powder can be added.
    Lots of good healthy calories.
    A heat source for pain.
    Tramadol can be given if you have access
    to some we can dose it for you.

    ***Yes thank you so much for the suggestion's, I will get some ensure and try that as well as the baby food that was suggested.
    *** Yes I can get Tramadol my husband is a Dr. and a Pharmacist with his own pharmacy and is very helpful and very willing to help me with any med's I may need for Sooka. she weighs just under a pound and help with the dosing will be super helpful and appreciated.
    Thank you so very much for your response I am really grateful to you as well as every one else who is helping! xxx

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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    You can try Meclazine.
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    Default Re: "Sooka Sweet P" 12 YO female Squirrel w/possible MBD... Rapid Decline

    I would absolutely continue with the MBD protocol. Aging probably (almost certainly) makes one more susceptible to this illness.

    Sort of a long shot but you mentioned giving her acorns? Some acorns can be carrying aflavotoxin which can be deadly.

    "Acute toxicity is caused when large doses of aflatoxin are ingested. This is common in livestock. The principal target organ for aflatoxins is the liver. After the invasion of aflatoxins into the liver, lipids infiltrate hepatocytes and leads to necrosis or liver cell death. This is mainly because aflatoxin metabolites react negatively with different cell proteins, which leads to inhibition of carbohydrate and lipid metabolism and protein synthesis. In correlation with the decrease in liver function, there is a derangement of the blood clotting mechanism, icterus (jaundice), and a decrease in essential serum proteins synthesized by the liver. Other general signs of Aflatoxicosis are edema of the lower extremities, abdominal pain, and vomiting. The most sever case of acute poisoning of aflatoxin was reported in north-west India in 1974 where 25% of the exposed population died after ingestion of the molded maize with aflatoxin levels ranging from 6250 to 15600 mg/kg."

    You could have your vet run a hepatic panel on her urine to check liver function. You may want to add small amounts of Milk Thistle to her food which will help put with liver function if this is the cause. Milk Thistle is VERY safe to don't worry too much about dose. The LD50 dose for silymarin (active ingredient in milk thistle) is 400 mg/kg in mice, 385 mg/kg in rats and 140 mg/kg in rabbits and dogs. So giving her a small dose like 10-25mg per day for a week or so should be safe.
    See my wild squirrel adventures in the thread "Squirtle's yard!":
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...quirtle-s-Yard!

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