WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40

[island rehabber]

Kevin, there are people here on TSB who are very astute about squirrel nutrition and the composition of these products. I'm not one of them. All I can tell you is that both these products are made by Pet Ag, but they are NOT the same. Esbilac has a certain combination of probiotics and other nutrients that Pet Lac and the others do not have, and that means they are not good for wildlife. (They may be fine for puppies.)

Nearly every large pet supply store -- Petco, Petsmart, etc -- carries the right Esbilac in the can with the blue line around the top that says "with probiotics....blah blah". That's what you need.

[Thecityman]

Thank-you, Island Rehabber, for you fast and helpful response. I suspected there is a difference but part of me wonders if there is or if it is just an old label or something on the one that doesn't say Esbilac. After all, they are both the same brand, both the same nutritional numbers, both say "with probiotics and prebiotics, and show the same ingredients. I just am not sure if there is really a difference or if the one without the word Esbilac is just a different label, maybe an older photo?/ Anyway, as you said, maybe some of the experts here will chime in. Thanks again. BTW, I'm a long time lurker here and admire and appreciate the way you help so many people. Thanks

https://www.walmart.com/search/?cat_id=0&query=esbilac

[Spanky]

After all, they are both the same brand, both the same nutritional numbers, both say "with probiotics and prebiotics, and show the same ingredients. I just am not sure if there is really a difference or if the one without the word Esbilac is just a different label, maybe an older photo?

The PetLac and Esbilac formulas are significantly different and the ingredients vary virtually from the very first ingredient (keep in mind ingredients are listed in descending order as well from the ingredient that has the highest content to the lowest). While the "nutritional numbers" (fat and protein) are the same / similar, the sources used for fat and protein are very different. The Esbilac protein comes from whey, the PetLac uses soy. The Esbilac fat comes from cream, the PetLac skimmed milk.... in the words of IR... blah blah blah!

My wife is a pescatarian (does not eat meat but does eat fish) but there were a couple of times over the years since she stopped eating meat when she had a craving and ate meat 6 years or so since she changed her diet. On each occasion she became sick as hell. Her body is no longer capable of handling the meat proteins. This is the analogy I think of as to what happens to baby squirrels being fed formulas that get protein and fat from sources their vegetarian bodies simply cannot handle.

[Thecityman]

The PetLac and Esbilac formulas are significantly different and the ingredients vary virtually from the very first ingredient (keep in mind ingredients are listed in descending order as well from the ingredient that has the highest content to the lowest). While the "nutritional numbers" (fat and protein) are the same / similar, the sources used for fat and protein are very different. The Esbilac protein comes from whey, the PetLac uses soy. The Esbilac fat comes from cream, the PetLac skimmed milk.... in the words of IR... blah blah blah!

My wife is a pescatarian (does not eat meat but does eat fish) but there were a couple of times over the years since she stopped eating meat when she had a craving and ate meat 6 years or so since she changed her diet. On each occasion she became sick as hell. Her body is no longer capable of handling the meat proteins. This is the analogy I think of as to what happens to baby squirrels being fed formulas that get protein and fat from sources their vegetarian bodies simply cannot handle.

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the difference to me - both biologically and with an example I could understand. I'll try to find the Esbilac ASAP. Thank you again for taking time to try and help me.
Kevin

[Ashleyw]

3 years ago, a discussion was started about pinkies not digesting Fox Valley 32/40 formula.
Seasoned rehabbers were losing babies, from undigested formula that sat in the babies tummies
like cement, with the milk line never disappearing.

I won't rehash the nightmares this caused.

Most people have since switched over to Powdered Puppy Esbilac for babies under 4 weeks
and some have continued with just the Esbilac until the squirrel is weaned.

This is just a reminder that Fox Valley 32/40 kills many/most pinkies, they cannot digest it.

We've been complacent about alerting members of this, thinking that most already knew.
I believe that after 3 years some felt the problem was rectified, (AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!!)
because we don't bring it up.

However, in the past 3 years we have NOT recommended it to ANY new member, and this needs to be
mentioned again as a reminder.

This just happened again to a seasoned rehabber. She fed Fox Valley 32/40 and it sat like cement.
Three of the babies have died.
http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ks-please-read

Discussion from 8/2013

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ght=Fox+Valley

Is there an age where the 32/40 is ok for squirrels? A friend of mine feeds her young ones that are at least 4 weeks old this kind. Shes been buying it for about a year and a half.

[cassgrimm]

Is there an age where the 32/40 is ok for squirrels? A friend of mine feeds her young ones that are at least 4 weeks old this kind. Shes been buying it for about a year and a half.

I won't weigh in on the 32/40 issue. The fact of the matter is that I don't know. Many of us have stayed far away from it since the issues with it were confirmed. Many babies died and I don't know of anyone personally who uses it, nor do I know of anyone who wants to try it out again at the potential expense of a little one.

I recommend that you suggest FV 20/50 to your friend who has the 4 week+ babies. Regardless of whether or not 32/40 is safe to feed, it is lower in fat than the 20/50 and the older babies do much better with the higher fat content.

[CritterMom]

Is there an age where the 32/40 is ok for squirrels? A friend of mine feeds her young ones that are at least 4 weeks old this kind. Shes been buying it for about a year and a half.

Furthermore, the 32/40 is made and marketed for babies 0-4 weeks, at which time the switch to 20/50, which is for 4 weeks + is supposed to be made. The problem with 32/40 was that if used AS DIRECTED, for the wee babies, it sat in the gut and did not digest, then the babies bloated and died. I suppose is THEORETICALLY possible that once they are older, as your friend is using it, that their more mature digestive systems could handle it. However, as cassgrim pointed out, the 4+ week babies will do much better and get the nutrition they need at that age, from the 20/50, which is made specifically for them.

Unfortunately, the only way for us to check and see if the 32/40 has been changed is to try it and see if the babies still bloat and die, and needless to say, nobody here wants to do that!

[LakenCPht]

One note. I did save both of mine, when they plugged up and I would be happy to discuss how to save them when they do bloat.

Could you please tell me how to do this?

[cassgrimm]

Could you please tell me how to do this?

Info can be found here: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...X-VALLEY-32-40