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Thread: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40

  1. #1
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    Exclamation WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40

    3 years ago, a discussion was started about pinkies not digesting Fox Valley 32/40 formula.
    Seasoned rehabbers were losing babies, from undigested formula that sat in the babies tummies
    like cement, with the milk line never disappearing.

    I won't rehash the nightmares this caused.

    Most people have since switched over to Powdered Puppy Esbilac for babies under 4 weeks
    and some have continued with just the Esbilac until the squirrel is weaned.

    This is just a reminder that Fox Valley 32/40 kills many/most pinkies, they cannot digest it.

    We've been complacent about alerting members of this, thinking that most already knew.
    I believe that after 3 years some felt the problem was rectified, (AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!!)
    because we don't bring it up.

    However, in the past 3 years we have NOT recommended it to ANY new member, and this needs to be
    mentioned again as a reminder.

    This just happened again to a seasoned rehabber. She fed Fox Valley 32/40 and it sat like cement.
    Three of the babies have died.
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ks-please-read

    Discussion from 8/2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ght=Fox+Valley

  2. 7 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Nancy in New York:

    Chickenlegs (07-16-2016), cooksa (07-16-2016), Coralreefer (07-18-2016), Elise (08-21-2016), kcassidy (07-16-2016), Skul (07-25-2016), stosh2010 (09-08-2018)

  3. #2
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Esbilac is safe now? My pinkie got terrible diarrhea 3 years ago... I switched to fox valley and she was better almost immediately. I boiled the fox valley after mixing it with water. I don't expect to ever rehab another squirrel as I'll hand it over to a licensed now that I know how to reach one, but if that ever fell through I want to know what to do. Oh my gosh! I'm so sorry you lost those poor babies!
    "For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures." - Unfinished Tales Tolkein

  4. #3
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Yup. Esbilac addressed what was wrong with their formula and it is a good thing they did, because that was the point where the FV 32/40 turned into something better used to mud over drywall joints than feed to little fragile babies...

    The 20/50 can be used in a 50/50 mixture - half 20/50 and half esbilac for older babies but the 32/40 should only be used to fill your garbage can...

  5. Serious fuzzy thank you's to CritterMom from:

    Nancy in New York (07-18-2016)

  6. #4
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Good to know. Oh my gosh!
    "For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures." - Unfinished Tales Tolkein

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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Fox Valley 32/40 and 20/50 doesn't completely dissolve until after it has been mixed with water for over 4 hours. It is better when it has been mixed for over 8 hours.

    It must be added to water that is over 180 F (hot not warm as the instructions state) to completely dissolve it.

  8. Serious fuzzy thank you's to DaSquirrelMom from:

    JoanP (05-15-2017)

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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSquirrelMom View Post
    Fox Valley 32/40 and 20/50 doesn't completely dissolve until after it has been mixed with water for over 4 hours. It is better when it has been mixed for over 8 hours.

    It must be added to water that is over 180 F (hot not warm as the instructions state) to completely dissolve it.
    Moot point with 32/40, TSB still does not recommend the use of FV32/40 for obvious reasons as stated below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    3 years ago, a discussion was started about pinkies not digesting Fox Valley 32/40 formula.
    Seasoned rehabbers were losing babies, from undigested formula that sat in the babies tummies
    like cement, with the milk line never disappearing.

    I won't rehash the nightmares this caused.

    Most people have since switched over to Powdered Puppy Esbilac for babies under 4 weeks
    and some have continued with just the Esbilac until the squirrel is weaned.

    This is just a reminder that Fox Valley 32/40 kills many/most pinkies, they cannot digest it.

    We've been complacent about alerting members of this, thinking that most already knew.
    I believe that after 3 years some felt the problem was rectified, (AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!!)
    because we don't bring it up.

    However, in the past 3 years we have NOT recommended it to ANY new member, and this needs to be
    mentioned again as a reminder.

    This just happened again to a seasoned rehabber. She fed Fox Valley 32/40 and it sat like cement.
    Three of the babies have died.
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ks-please-read

    Discussion from 8/2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ght=Fox+Valley
    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


  10. Serious fuzzy thank you's to stepnstone from:

    JoanP (05-15-2017)

  11. #7
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    I had been using 32/40 with my pinkies until last year, when I had 2 bloat up very quickly. This year I am using nothing but Esbilac until after they are 10 days old and have had absolutely no problems whatsoever!
    Squaddy to Rex - The Forever Baby boy!, Winkers , the One Eye Foxy Squirrel Princess!, Hanzel , The sweetest Maloccluded boy in the world!, and now Mr. Cuddles , the very young Old Man!


    Successes that we thought were not releasable
    -

    Blue Belle (the squirrel who got braces and is now running wild in the trees!) and Felix, the cat bit squirrel who decided to be a stay at home squirrel and then changed his mind and is now running wild in the trees too! Clifford A beautiful Foxer who is now the wild squirrel he was supposed to be.

    Mittens Who will be in the trees this fall, after being hit by a car and spending 2 year rehabbing so he could run the trees again.

    Gone to the Rainbow Bridge, but not forgotten -

    Stevie , the Blind Foxy Wonder Squirrel! - I tried, but wasn't able to save you beautiful Foxer girl.

  12. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Duckman:

    island rehabber (07-20-2016), Nancy in New York (07-20-2016)

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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    One note. I did save both of mine, when they plugged up and I would be happy to discuss how to save them when they do bloat.
    Squaddy to Rex - The Forever Baby boy!, Winkers , the One Eye Foxy Squirrel Princess!, Hanzel , The sweetest Maloccluded boy in the world!, and now Mr. Cuddles , the very young Old Man!


    Successes that we thought were not releasable
    -

    Blue Belle (the squirrel who got braces and is now running wild in the trees!) and Felix, the cat bit squirrel who decided to be a stay at home squirrel and then changed his mind and is now running wild in the trees too! Clifford A beautiful Foxer who is now the wild squirrel he was supposed to be.

    Mittens Who will be in the trees this fall, after being hit by a car and spending 2 year rehabbing so he could run the trees again.

    Gone to the Rainbow Bridge, but not forgotten -

    Stevie , the Blind Foxy Wonder Squirrel! - I tried, but wasn't able to save you beautiful Foxer girl.

  14. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Duckman:

    Nancy in New York (07-20-2016), Sara in NW MS (07-20-2016)

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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    I'd love to hear what you did, Duckman -- I tried everything and lost them all.
    Island Rehabber
    NY State Licensed
    Wildlife Rehabilitator


    "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."

    '...and the greatest of these, is Love. '

  16. #10
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    I had a lot of problems with Esbilac last year. They have now fixed the issue? Last year I ended up using FV 20/50 but it was an older bag I had stored in my freezer (made before the issues with FV arose).

  17. #11
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Quote Originally Posted by pixiepoo View Post
    I had a lot of problems with Esbilac last year. They have now fixed the issue? Last year I ended up using FV 20/50 but it was an older bag I had stored in my freezer (made before the issues with FV arose).

    I also used 20:50 last year .. I thought this had been address and thought I would do it right this year .

    Duck : would love to know how you did this ? However mine did not bloat until about an hour before their death. May have been from "death gasping" .
    Stephanie Carlson

    St. Melangell Small Mammal Sanctuary
    ODNR Permitted Cat 2 Rehabilatator
    https://www.facebook.com/StMelangellSmallMammal/

  18. #12
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    The trick for me seemed to be getting in as much water, as quickly as possible, once you see and feel the hardness in the belly. Not sugar water or Pedilyte, but plain water. I did this every hour (giving about .2-.3 ml) and ensure you stimulate after each, for 2 reasons. 1. You have to get that water out of the bladder, and it will burst if you don't. 2. You want that water to start working on the crud in the belly. After 8-10 hours, you should start seeing some movement out of the bowel (they will continue to poop, but you will start to see it more watery, which is what you want). At that time, start introducing diluted formula at the ratio of 25% Esbilac, 75% water. Feed this for the first half day. The second half day, I bumped up the ration to 50/50. I fed this for a day and then went to 75% Esbilac, 25% water and introduced full food the next day (and the blockage was gone!). So far, I am at 100% success rate. One note though. I check my pinkies after every feeding, so see if their bellies are hard or squishy. I would suggest everyone get in the habit of checking them after every feeding as habit and you can't go wrong in catching them before they bloat up. Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).
    Squaddy to Rex - The Forever Baby boy!, Winkers , the One Eye Foxy Squirrel Princess!, Hanzel , The sweetest Maloccluded boy in the world!, and now Mr. Cuddles , the very young Old Man!


    Successes that we thought were not releasable
    -

    Blue Belle (the squirrel who got braces and is now running wild in the trees!) and Felix, the cat bit squirrel who decided to be a stay at home squirrel and then changed his mind and is now running wild in the trees too! Clifford A beautiful Foxer who is now the wild squirrel he was supposed to be.

    Mittens Who will be in the trees this fall, after being hit by a car and spending 2 year rehabbing so he could run the trees again.

    Gone to the Rainbow Bridge, but not forgotten -

    Stevie , the Blind Foxy Wonder Squirrel! - I tried, but wasn't able to save you beautiful Foxer girl.

  19. 5 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Duckman:

    Nancy in New York (07-21-2016), Sara in NW MS (07-21-2016), Skul (07-25-2016), Spanky (07-21-2016), stosh2010 (10-11-2016)

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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman View Post
    Once they take on that angry red color on their bellies (this is when their system goes septic), they are gone and can't be saved, so the trick is to catch them before this happens (hence, getting in the habit to see if their tummies are hard or not).
    Do you happen to have some pictures of this? While I haven't had a pinkie in years, this is a wonderful learning experience and it's always best to be on the lookout - even if it's years more before I get a pinkie.

  21. #14
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLies212 View Post
    Do you happen to have some pictures of this? While I haven't had a pinkie in years, this is a wonderful learning experience and it's always best to be on the lookout - even if it's years more before I get a pinkie.
    I will look and see, but I don't think I do. You can't miss it though. You will see the bright white line from the crud, and it looks like an infection line (bright red) about a half inch to each side of the white belly line, then it lightens up to the pinkie color (if this makes sense).
    Squaddy to Rex - The Forever Baby boy!, Winkers , the One Eye Foxy Squirrel Princess!, Hanzel , The sweetest Maloccluded boy in the world!, and now Mr. Cuddles , the very young Old Man!


    Successes that we thought were not releasable
    -

    Blue Belle (the squirrel who got braces and is now running wild in the trees!) and Felix, the cat bit squirrel who decided to be a stay at home squirrel and then changed his mind and is now running wild in the trees too! Clifford A beautiful Foxer who is now the wild squirrel he was supposed to be.

    Mittens Who will be in the trees this fall, after being hit by a car and spending 2 year rehabbing so he could run the trees again.

    Gone to the Rainbow Bridge, but not forgotten -

    Stevie , the Blind Foxy Wonder Squirrel! - I tried, but wasn't able to save you beautiful Foxer girl.

  22. #15
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman View Post
    I will look and see, but I don't think I do. You can't miss it though. You will see the bright white line from the crud, and it looks like an infection line (bright red) about a half inch to each side of the white belly line, then it lightens up to the pinkie color (if this makes sense).
    It makes sense! Thank you for describing it!

  23. #16
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    DarkLies, I know this isn't what you asked for,
    but here is one of my little reds that was fed FV 32/40
    This was 7 hours after he ate his last feeding. I could not
    get the line to disappear, and was frantic.
    He passed an hour after this photo was taken.
    It was like SLUDGE in his poor tummy.
    AND the line appeared to get larger and larger
    even without being fed!!!!!!!!!!!



  24. 3 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Nancy in New York:

    DarkLies212 (07-22-2016), Sara in NW MS (07-21-2016), stosh2010 (10-11-2016)

  25. #17
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    All I see is a photo icon thing, not a picture...looks like a little square Polaroid

    Any pictures will help. The more I can learn now, the better I feel

  26. #18
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post

    It was like SLUDGE in his poor tummy.
    AND the line appeared to get larger and larger
    even without being fed!!!!!!!!!!!


    We did necropsies on several of ours that bloated and died, and found that the sludge is almost like packed sand in their bellies. That was the reason I decided to use the water the way I did. The best way to remove a sand bar is to use water to loosen it so it can wash away. That is exactly what happens too!
    Squaddy to Rex - The Forever Baby boy!, Winkers , the One Eye Foxy Squirrel Princess!, Hanzel , The sweetest Maloccluded boy in the world!, and now Mr. Cuddles , the very young Old Man!


    Successes that we thought were not releasable
    -

    Blue Belle (the squirrel who got braces and is now running wild in the trees!) and Felix, the cat bit squirrel who decided to be a stay at home squirrel and then changed his mind and is now running wild in the trees too! Clifford A beautiful Foxer who is now the wild squirrel he was supposed to be.

    Mittens Who will be in the trees this fall, after being hit by a car and spending 2 year rehabbing so he could run the trees again.

    Gone to the Rainbow Bridge, but not forgotten -

    Stevie , the Blind Foxy Wonder Squirrel! - I tried, but wasn't able to save you beautiful Foxer girl.

  27. 3 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Duckman:

    DarkLies212 (07-22-2016), Nancy in New York (07-21-2016), PennyCash (07-21-2016)

  28. #19
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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    Thank you SO much Duckman for letting us know your method.
    Hopefully nobody will ever buy this crap again.
    But if they do, at least we may have a way of helping now.

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    Default Re: WARNING DO NOT FEED Fox Valley 32/40 to pinkies

    I am so sorry Nancy. That must have been so awful. I want to write the company. Poor little babies
    "For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures." - Unfinished Tales Tolkein

  30. Serious fuzzy thank you's to Radagast from:

    Nancy in New York (07-30-2016)

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