Please help! Orphan baby mouse with distended tummy (full of gas I guess)

[MousePanic]

Hello,

Apologies in advance for the long post. I am brand new to any sort of rodent care, and am completely panicked...

I found 2 orphan babies (I think Deer mice, just based on location; woodshed in the Santa Cruz mountains, SF bay area, USA) on Sunday afternoon. They were very tiny, no fur at all, ears not even slightly protruding, eyes tightly closed. No idea how old when I found them. Since then I have been following advice on the fun mouse, Mouse Ranch, and AFRMA websites:

www.thefunmouse.com/info/orph...fm#handraising
www.afrma.org/orphanrm.htm
mouseranch.com/FYI/orphans.shtml

I am using a routine of 2-hour feeds of warm KRM diluted 2:1:1 with water and unflavoured Pedialyte (delivered with a tiny paintbrush), housing them in a shoe box with lots of torn tissue paper on a heat pad (85F in hottest corner, box offset on heat pad so there is a cooler spot for them to crawl to if they want. Cool spot 75F), and massaging their tummies and guts before and after each feed with a finger very lightly covered in petroleum jelly.

Late last night (i.e. end of day 3 with me) I noticed one of the babies looked very bloated, and on closer inspection it looks like her (obviously don't know the sex - both "she" for now) stomach is full of gas. It is distended, round and feels inflated, like a balloon. Based on my reading of all the websites I mentioned, plus a previous forum post on this squirrel board, which is the reason I am posting this here, I am guessing she has bad bloat, and I am sure I caused it by over-feeding her, since I was so panicked about trying to keep the babies alive initially.

thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ng-10-days-old

Since noticing the problem, I have changed her 2-hourly feedings to 1:5 KRM to Pedialyte, with alternative feedings of 1:1 white Karo syrup and water. She still seems interested in food, about the same interest as pre-swelling. I have also been giving her extended tummy and gut massages with my fingers, up to 5 mins at a time (as long as she isn't squeaking. I don't want to massage her tummy while she is squeaking as I can't tell if she is then squeaking in pain), but is not pooping very often. I would estimate every 2-3 feeds, and even then,very little (one or two tiny "pellets" that mice poop seems to consist of. The colour seems fine though (mustard yellow). I try to massage her every hour. I am worried about going for longer than 5 mins, in case she gets cold. Urination seems okay.

I can see the milk getting into her tummy during and after a feed, but it seems to make her *worse* in the sense that the extra volume just distends her tummy even more. It is so distressing to see her - after a feed she can't really lie on her stomach or even side, she just rolls onto her back, basically because she is trying to lie on a beach ball.



I am very distressed, as I am certain she is not going to pull through. I am off to the shops right now to try and find some laxatone and/or baby gas drops, as recommended by the squirrel board forum on orphan mice bloat.

Is there anything else at all that I should be doing - additionally or differently? I am pretty heartbroken, these are my first ever mice, and of course I am already very attached...

Just for completeness, the other mouse does not have a distended tummy, that I can see, feeds well every two hours (original KRM 2:1:1 with water and Pedialyte, and her milk band becomes obvious) but also isn't pooping a lot (maybe a similar amount to my little poorly one). Urination seems fine.

Any advice AT ALL on my poor bloated baby would be hugely appreciated. I thank you in advance for your time.

[stepnstone]

First off, never feed a bloated baby, anything.
You must eliminate the bloat first!

You mention massaging but are you stimulating their genitals to
pee and poop?

Yes, that baby is in serious trouble and it needs to poop!
Use something warm and stimulate his anus to try and move him.
Try a warm water soak up to it's arm pits holding with one hand
while massaging down both sides with the other from the arm pits down.
When taking him out make sure he is dried and kept warm, do not want
him to get chilled.

I will try to direct some more experienced people with mice on here.

[MyLittleMercy]

Hello,

First & foremost, try to stay calm. You are trying your very best and I thank you for caring for these orphan bubs!

For bloat:
Give 1 drop of WHITE Karo syrup (can be found in grocery & convenient stores). Wait 1 hour and if bloat has not gone down, give 1 more drop of the white Karo syrup. (Give to them from the tiny paint brush). Do not feed formula until the bloat is down. Give 3 to 4 drops of full strength pedialyte 1 hour after white karo syrup is given. What kind formula are you feeding? I remember seeing but can't remember what kind.....when mixing formula, you take 1 part of powdered formula and mix with 4 parts of water. It should be warm, but not hot. You can test on your wrist first if need be. The formula does cool down quick...especially feeding with paint brush. A feeding should take no longer than 5 min. You don't want to give too much at one time because the formula will get in their lungs. Stop feeding after 5 min but also check their milk pack. Overfeeding can cause bloat..i recommend KMR kitten formula in powder form. After bloat goes down, you can start formula again as follow:

90% Pedialyte to 10% formula (formula 1 part powder to 4 parts water always)

After first or second feeding do

80% pedialyte to 20% formula

Next feeding (as long as there is no bloat):

50% pedialyte to 50% formula.

Do not use pedialyte for more than 48 hours.

You can go back to formula as long as bloat has not returned.

Very gently, take a warm wet q tip and stimulate to pee & poop. What color is the urine? The one that is bloated, have you seen any poop from him today?

Make sure you keep them in a container that stays around 85 degrees. They will need to be fed every 2 hours and you have to do this throughout the night. Be ready for some sleepless nights, but I promise you it will be worth it.

Deep breaths, you can do this. Orphan bubs are pretty hard to care for but is so rewarding if you can get them past the 1st couple weeks. They look to be around 1 week to 1 week and a few days.

Hello,

Apologies in advance for the long post. I am brand new to any sort of rodent care, and am completely panicked...

I found 2 orphan babies (I think Deer mice, just based on location; woodshed in the Santa Cruz mountains, SF bay area, USA) on Sunday afternoon. They were very tiny, no fur at all, ears not even slightly protruding, eyes tightly closed. No idea how old when I found them. Since then I have been following advice on the fun mouse, Mouse Ranch, and AFRMA websites:

www.thefunmouse.com/info/orph...fm#handraising
www.afrma.org/orphanrm.htm
mouseranch.com/FYI/orphans.shtml

I am using a routine of 2-hour feeds of warm KRM diluted 2:1:1 with water and unflavoured Pedialyte (delivered with a tiny paintbrush), housing them in a shoe box with lots of torn tissue paper on a heat pad (85F in hottest corner, box offset on heat pad so there is a cooler spot for them to crawl to if they want. Cool spot 75F), and massaging their tummies and guts before and after each feed with a finger very lightly covered in petroleum jelly.

Late last night (i.e. end of day 3 with me) I noticed one of the babies looked very bloated, and on closer inspection it looks like her (obviously don't know the sex - both "she" for now) stomach is full of gas. It is distended, round and feels inflated, like a balloon. Based on my reading of all the websites I mentioned, plus a previous forum post on this squirrel board, which is the reason I am posting this here, I am guessing she has bad bloat, and I am sure I caused it by over-feeding her, since I was so panicked about trying to keep the babies alive initially.

thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ng-10-days-old

Since noticing the problem, I have changed her 2-hourly feedings to 1:5 KRM to Pedialyte, with alternative feedings of 1:1 white Karo syrup and water. She still seems interested in food, about the same interest as pre-swelling. I have also been giving her extended tummy and gut massages with my fingers, up to 5 mins at a time (as long as she isn't squeaking. I don't want to massage her tummy while she is squeaking as I can't tell if she is then squeaking in pain), but is not pooping very often. I would estimate every 2-3 feeds, and even then,very little (one or two tiny "pellets" that mice poop seems to consist of. The colour seems fine though (mustard yellow). I try to massage her every hour. I am worried about going for longer than 5 mins, in case she gets cold. Urination seems okay.

I can see the milk getting into her tummy during and after a feed, but it seems to make her *worse* in the sense that the extra volume just distends her tummy even more. It is so distressing to see her - after a feed she can't really lie on her stomach or even side, she just rolls onto her back, basically because she is trying to lie on a beach ball.



I am very distressed, as I am certain she is not going to pull through. I am off to the shops right now to try and find some laxatone and/or baby gas drops, as recommended by the squirrel board forum on orphan mice bloat.

Is there anything else at all that I should be doing - additionally or differently? I am pretty heartbroken, these are my first ever mice, and of course I am already very attached...

Just for completeness, the other mouse does not have a distended tummy, that I can see, feeds well every two hours (original KRM 2:1:1 with water and Pedialyte, and her milk band becomes obvious) but also isn't pooping a lot (maybe a similar amount to my little poorly one). Urination seems fine.

Any advice AT ALL on my poor bloated baby would be hugely appreciated. I thank you in advance for your time.

[MyLittleMercy]

One last thing...

Don't use petroleum jelly. This is toxic to these little ones : )

[Squarl]

Maybe they are sucking air? Feed them with a 1cc syringe and 22 gauge catheter tip (needle removed). I've never had a problem with bloat. A veterinary office will probably give them to you for free or very cheap.

[MyLittleMercy]

Feeding a 10 day old bub with a 1cc syringe is a BIG NO! Especially since this is her 1st time raising mouse bubs.

Stick with using the small thin paint brush like you have been. That is the best way to feed to prevent aspiration.

Maybe they are sucking air? Feed them with a 1cc syringe and 22 gauge catheter tip (needle removed). I've never had a problem with bloat. A veterinary office will probably give them to you for free or very cheap.

[stepnstone]

That baby was most likely overfed as she herself suspected, not being properly pottied/stimulated,
developed bloat and was continued to be fed liquids. One does not continue to feed with bloat!
That's not from sucking air!
I totally agree with not using a 1cc! This is a tiny bub we're speaking of here...