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Thread: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: Discussion Thread

  1. #21
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    This is NOT a recent issue.
    This has been discussed openly for the past couple of years.
    Pappy and Wonkawillie, (AND OTHERS) have noticed problems with some of their
    little ones and stricktly go with the GM formula until eyes open.
    When something works you stay with it, and up until now,
    I thought it was working for me.
    Looking back I lost two neonates last year that were on 32/40 and UB.
    I remember then seeing that the line had never completely gone away,
    but close enough that I felt comfortable feeding again.

    What I have done now is switched them over to the GM formula immediately,
    with NO transition.

    My three remaining neonate reds are doing fantastic. I see NO milk line when
    I go to feed again, and they are clearly taking more at each feeding.
    I will be sticking with the GM formula for a few more weeks, and then slowly
    introduce the FV back.
    If I encounter a problem then, I will get them off immediately, until eyes open. (OR NOT?)

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Uni: FEED THEM, even if it's a bit diluted, and get Nick to send 20/50 to you. I'm sure he will take back the 32/40.
    Rhapsody: I also mix only enough for that feeding I'm doing -- but it didn't matter with my little Robbie...
    I'm saying GM (ugh, can't wait for the stinkyness! ) or 20/50.
    GM folks: can you freeze it? It's not available near me so I need to find it on the mainland and hopefully stock up.....
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    I see this as a BIG issue. If I don't like the way it is digesting in a sq, then I don't.
    It is not going to be used here. Bigs or littles... it looks like cement to me.
    I had this issue last year as well...lost two that I will always question.


    ... glad this is no longer in the closet....
    the goats milk is working well..

    If it's questionable about how well does GM do full term... my Banana is one that I raised solely on GM formula...
    she's big bad smart and thrives for 7 years in the wild, litter after litter... she is perfect.

    diluting the FV more lessens the nutrition...not an option.




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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    What I have been doing is gm/yogurt until they are a couple weeks old, then I slowly start adding in fv, diluted at first, keep them on that until 5 weeks/eyes are open. I have been doing this not only in squirrels, but other critters as well (George has been raised strictly on the gm recipe and he has done AMAZING!) GM is so easily digestible, and although it doesn't have enough fat on its own, that can be added in (although I choose to only do the gm/yogurt with the little ones, as I think the heavy cream can cause potty issues.) I have found this works amazingly. They digest it, but still get the extra vitamins and such in the fv, which by being mixed with the gm/yogurt, it is always 'diluted'. Not had one issue since I started doing this. And so everyone knows, I did discuss this in great detail with Nick. He said if that is working, to keep doing that. He was not sure what was causing the issues, but I have seen it across the board and I believe with everything in my soul, that is why Frank, Furter and Bean had the issues they did. God surely was watching over them for them to have pulled through. I will now only feed ALL babies this way.
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    I am happy it will be something you all can work around... not me... ONE PITCHER a day of tolerated nutritional source...
    I am not able to have kids with peanut allergies or milk issues... I do 40+ sqs alone each season., every season.
    there will not be chocolate milk for this one and skim for that one...

    one for all and all for one!
    can you see me at 3am reading milk jugs...no......
    thank goodness pickle juice is green...

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Yes, this has been discussed for some time. I have assumed that it was more IR's extreme proficiency with pinkies and perhaps a teeny bit NYC public water high quality that was the reason she was not having the issues so many others were having.

    So the difference between the two formulas is that 32/40 has more protein and less fat than has. Can we assume that perhaps there is a problem with the protein source for this formula that isn't showing up in the 20/50 because there is less overall protein in it?

    Of course, the babies NEED that additional protein when they are in the pre-eye open stage - and what would boost that in the 20/50? It is easy to add fat; less easy to add protein.

    I am eager to hear what Nick has to say about this. I used 32/40 plus heavy cream and yogurt for Laz with no issues, but I have had that 32/40 for some time - I keep all that stuff in the freezer...mine may have pre-dated what is going on, because clearly SOMETHING is different now... That said, I mix mine with nearly boiling water and then cool it with the HC before adding yogurt and mix VERY well and then let it sit in the fridge before using...and it requires stirring before I do, which tells me that there are solids that are NOT being dissolved in it - they are just going into solution when it is stirred and then precipitating out when it sits. Since this is the basis of the problems with esbilac, it should concern all of us...

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post
    Uni: FEED THEM, even if it's a bit diluted, and get Nick to send 20/50 to you. I'm sure he will take back the 32/40.
    Rhapsody: I also mix only enough for that feeding I'm doing -- but it didn't matter with my little Robbie...
    I'm saying GM (ugh, can't wait for the stinkyness! ) or 20/50.
    GM folks: can you freeze it? It's not available near me so I need to find it on the mainland and hopefully stock up.....
    Maura, I can get the powdered goats milk at my local supermarket in the natural foods section. I would think that would be the best solution - keep the powder in the freezer like you do the FV powder and mix just what is needed for the day.
    http://www.vitacost.com/meyenberg-po...oat-milk-12-oz

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    My bag is good through Dec. 31, 2014....but maybe I should dilute it more just in case, it is just for LG but I know sometimes her poops are whitish cement like Jackie mentioned Can I use yogurt in it I know she will be 2 soon, but she still want's her ba ba
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Yes, this has been discussed for some time. I have assumed that it was more IR's extreme proficiency with pinkies and perhaps a teeny bit NYC public water high quality that was the reason she was not having the issues so many others were having.

    So the difference between the two formulas is that 32/40 has more protein and less fat than has. Can we assume that perhaps there is a problem with the protein source for this formula that isn't showing up in the 20/50 because there is less overall protein in it?

    Of course, the babies NEED that additional protein when they are in the pre-eye open stage - and what would boost that in the 20/50? It is easy to add fat; less easy to add protein.

    I am eager to hear what Nick has to say about this. I used 32/40 plus heavy cream and yogurt for Laz with no issues, but I have had that 32/40 for some time - I keep all that stuff in the freezer...mine may have pre-dated what is going on, because clearly SOMETHING is different now... That said, I mix mine with nearly boiling water and then cool it with the HC before adding yogurt and mix VERY well and then let it sit in the fridge before using...and it requires stirring before I do, which tells me that there are solids that are NOT being dissolved in it - they are just going into solution when it is stirred and then precipitating out when it sits. Since this is the basis of the problems with esbilac, it should concern all of us...
    I also premix mine and let it sit. I do it up ahead
    all of the time, at least a day before, sometimes I do larger
    batches and freeze. NEVER had problems, or perhaps I did last year.

    What I did notice, and I even wrote about it.....was that I preload my syringes.(hate to keep the little ones waiting )
    When I did large numbers of squirrels, I had up to 70 preloaded syringes at a time,
    so they wouldn't have to wait. Last year I had to stop this practice.

    I noticed that the ones that sat there for say, 30 minutes, all clogged in the
    nipple. When I squeezed the end of the nipple,
    the formula came out like cake writing decoration in a straight little line.
    Not every single one that sat, but enough so that I no longer preload that many.
    This tells me that even when premixed a day ahead, it seperates and clogs the nipples,
    if it clogs the nipples, it clogs the babies.

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Should i keep feeding Piti The 32/40 ultra boost mix?.i know he's not a pinky no more but now i'm worried. should i go get goat milk? i have two full unopened bag of the stuff. i dont want to take any chances.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    HLS, if it ain't broke don't fix it. PiTi is doing wonderfully and he's older. My guys are all on the same mex you're feeding and they're perfect. This is SPECIFICALLY an issue with neonates -- 1-7 days old.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    IR, you can freeze goat's milk! Pour it into an ice cube tray and freeze away. Both diluted canned and fresh-it doesn't matter.
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    IR, you can freeze goat's milk! Pour it into an ice cube tray and freeze away. Both diluted canned and fresh-it doesn't matter.
    I freeze mine too anne, ...and you really need to.....
    BECAUSE, GM, no matter what form, is good only 72 hours once opened... ..
    NEVER leave GM or anything for that matter in a metal can in the fridge...very bad....
    I do not add anything before freezing, I thaw and then add my yogurt and or Heavy Cream.
    Anne are you using GM or FV? for what ages? what about the flyers?

  14. #34
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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post
    Uni: FEED THEM, even if it's a bit diluted, and get Nick to send 20/50 to you. I'm sure he will take back the 32/40.
    Rhapsody: I also mix only enough for that feeding I'm doing -- but it didn't matter with my little Robbie...
    I'm saying GM (ugh, can't wait for the stinkyness! ) or 20/50.
    GM folks: can you freeze it? It's not available near me so I need to find it on the mainland and hopefully stock up.....
    Yes, you can freeze it and they usually suggest in an ice tray so that you can take small amounts out at a time.

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie in Tampa View Post
    I freeze mine too anne, ...and you really need to.....
    BECAUSE, GM, no matter what form, is good only 72 hours once opened... ..
    NEVER leave GM or anything for that matter in a metal can in the fridge...very bad....
    I do not add anything before freezing, I thaw and then add my yogurt and or Heavy Cream.
    Anne are you using GM or FV? for what ages? what about the flyers?
    I didn't know that it was only good for 72 hours once opened.
    I bought fresh and thought it was good until the expiration, which is in September.
    correction, it is the sell by date of septemeber
    Last edited by Nancy in New York; 08-14-2013 at 01:35 PM.

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Jackie this is what I bought. Is this ok?
    It says do not buy after a certain date, but nowhere
    on the carton does it say that it's only good for 72 hours.
    Should I discard?


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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    NiNY that is a sell by date. Once it has been opened it begins to grow other bacteria, etc... After opening it is only supposed to be fed for 72 hrs. Hence freezing in ice cubes.

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post
    HLS, if it ain't broke don't fix it. PiTi is doing wonderfully and he's older. My guys are all on the same mex you're feeding and they're perfect. This is SPECIFICALLY an issue with neonates -- 1-7 days old.
    Ok.I'm still omitting Ultra boost. seems his bowl movements changed as soon it was administered. I give him a little water ever 24 hours,and he REALLY loves it. About 2 cc's maybe more.

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    I have had issues with FV setting up in the little ones guts and within a day or two they pass. I personally am not a fan of FV because Nick uses HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP in squirrel milk.......this is something that I think is causing poor growth rates and diarrhea. It is NOT something that I eat and I am certainly NOT giving it to my little guys!
    Now I am going to say that I have recently (along with several other seasoned rehabbers) tried the NEW Esbilac that has probiotics and Dried Whey Protein Concentrate!!! You have to look on the label to make sure of what you are getting!!!

    Finally once again I am having the fat necked babies that are flourishing......one of my girls gained 7 grams yesterday!!!

    I know what Esbilac has been and done in the past but they have changed the formula, who knows if it is because of all the phone call and flack that they got from rehabbers.......all I can say is it has changed and changed for the better.

    I am getting fantastic weight gains, much less poo (not nearly as hard as when they are on FV) which makes me think they are absorbing/utilizing more of the nutrients.

    I have tried everything on the market.......FV, MultiMilk, Old Esbilac, Century 21, Zoologic......and every mixture in between.

    So far this is giving me the results of the Old Esbilac and the Old MulitMilk.

    In case anyone wants to try I am mixing 2:1 Water to powder and adding in 1/8 part cream once they are up to 25 grams.

    **** I have not tried this on anything under 20 grams, so I am not speaking for the pinkies but I would have to think it is better and my little ones dying from FV!!!

    Good Luck !!!
    Christy
    State Of Georgia Licensed Squirrely Rehabilitator

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    Default Re: FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: I NEVER thought I'd have to post this....

    I contacted Henry's and they gave me an instant store credit!! AWESOME customer service they have!!! Very pleased!! Already placed a new order!!

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