FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: Discussion Thread

[island rehabber]

As a wildlife rehabilitator and admin here, I can't live in denial anymore.
There IS a problem with FV and very young pinkies....LESS THAN 5 days old.

For whatever reason, rehabbers all over the country are having difficulty with FV 32/40, even when combined with Ultra Boost, not being digested by very young pinky squirrels. The stuff stays in their gut for hours and hours....the milk line never moves. I saw it in my little Robbie, who died. Nancy in NY had the same experience with a pinky red, who died. UDoWhat had a similar experience and reported to me that others in her area were baffled by the same syndrome in their neonates on FV.

First off: if you are NOT rehabbing squirrels younger than 5 days old please do not panic about this. In fact, all of my six came in at about a week old or older, except Robbie, and they have been on FV and Ultra Boost and are doing GREAT. This is strictly a neonate issue, which most of you will not encounter.

I haven't spoken to Nick at FV yet, but I will. In the meantime, should you get in a very young pinky, it would be wise to start him on the Goat's milk formula and transition to FV at around 10 days old, to be on the safe side. (10 days is when the umbilical stump typically falls off. )

I welcome comments, corrections and suggestions to this thread; this is an ongoing discussion about an extremely serious issue and we need everyone's input.


IR

[SammysMom]

Thank-you for posting this Maura! I have been watching and wondering if there was an issue.

[island rehabber]

Thank-you for posting this Maura! I have been watching and wondering if there was an issue.

It's happened too many times now for it to be a coincidence, or bad water, or rehabber error. SOMETHING is wrong....

[stepnstone]

I do know there is a difference between wild animals and human animal
so please don't beat me up over this, just throwing it out there...

I'm wondering if what's happening with the pinkies is on the same lines as what happens with a
"premature" infant in that the immature lining of the intestines makes it hard for them to digest fat?
Many premature (human) babies have to start out on specialized formulas due to this issue.
My younger brother and son both were put on a goat's milk formula until their digestive systems matured
due to this very issue.

[Skul]

Experienced the same thing with Moses.
We had to keep him on goat's milk for some time, then slowly transition to FV.
He has no issue with FV at this time. (7 weeks or so)

[Anne]

OMG, I thought that it was just me and/or the pinkies. I stabilized three pinkies of about 12 grams each. I past one on to Lady Squirrelly that was doing great at first, then found dead. One I kept here for 4 days died, the third I past on to another one of my volunteers, it was dead in 3 days. All of us are experienced not anyone's first rodeo. All the pinkies I got this year past away in just a few days!

[Jackie in Tampa]

I see this as a BIG issue. If I don't like the way it is digesting in a sq, then I don't.
It is not going to be used here. Bigs or littles... it looks like cement to me.
I had this issue last year as well...lost two that I will always question.


... glad this is no longer in the closet....
the goats milk is working well..

If it's questionable about how well does GM do full term... my Banana is one that I raised solely on GM formula...
she's big bad smart and thrives for 7 years in the wild, litter after litter... she is perfect.

diluting the FV more lessens the nutrition...not an option.

[pappy1264]

What I have been doing is gm/yogurt until they are a couple weeks old, then I slowly start adding in fv, diluted at first, keep them on that until 5 weeks/eyes are open. I have been doing this not only in squirrels, but other critters as well (George has been raised strictly on the gm recipe and he has done AMAZING!) GM is so easily digestible, and although it doesn't have enough fat on its own, that can be added in (although I choose to only do the gm/yogurt with the little ones, as I think the heavy cream can cause potty issues.) I have found this works amazingly. They digest it, but still get the extra vitamins and such in the fv, which by being mixed with the gm/yogurt, it is always 'diluted'. Not had one issue since I started doing this. And so everyone knows, I did discuss this in great detail with Nick. He said if that is working, to keep doing that. He was not sure what was causing the issues, but I have seen it across the board and I believe with everything in my soul, that is why Frank, Furter and Bean had the issues they did. God surely was watching over them for them to have pulled through. I will now only feed ALL babies this way.

[Jackie in Tampa]

I am happy it will be something you all can work around... not me... ONE PITCHER a day of tolerated nutritional source...
I am not able to have kids with peanut allergies or milk issues... I do 40+ sqs alone each season., every season.
there will not be chocolate milk for this one and skim for that one...

one for all and all for one!
can you see me at 3am reading milk jugs...no......
thank goodness pickle juice is green...

[cordie]

I have been using half fv and half canine replacer, works great, good growth etc.

As a wildlife rehabilitator and admin here, I can't live in denial anymore.
There IS a problem with FV and very young pinkies....LESS THAN 5 days old.

For whatever reason, rehabbers all over the country are having difficulty with FV 32/40, even when combined with Ultra Boost, not being digested by very young pinky squirrels. The stuff stays in their gut for hours and hours....the milk line never moves. I saw it in my little Robbie, who died. Nancy in NY had the same experience with a pinky red, who died. UDoWhat had a similar experience and reported to me that others in her area were baffled by the same syndrome in their neonates on FV.

First off: if you are NOT rehabbing squirrels younger than 5 days old please do not panic about this. In fact, all of my six came in at about a week old or older, except Robbie, and they have been on FV and Ultra Boost and are doing GREAT. This is strictly a neonate issue, which most of you will not encounter.

I haven't spoken to Nick at FV yet, but I will. In the meantime, should you get in a very young pinky, it would be wise to start him on the Goat's milk formula and transition to FV at around 10 days old, to be on the safe side. (10 days is when the umbilical stump typically falls off. )

I welcome comments, corrections and suggestions to this thread; this is an ongoing discussion about an extremely serious issue and we need everyone's input.


IR

[Irishgal59]

As a wildlife rehabilitator and admin here, I can't live in denial anymore.
There IS a problem with FV and very young pinkies....LESS THAN 5 days old.

For whatever reason, rehabbers all over the country are having difficulty with FV 32/40, even when combined with Ultra Boost, not being digested by very young pinky squirrels. The stuff stays in their gut for hours and hours....the milk line never moves. I saw it in my little Robbie, who died. Nancy in NY had the same experience with a pinky red, who died. UDoWhat had a similar experience and reported to me that others in her area were baffled by the same syndrome in their neonates on FV.

First off: if you are NOT rehabbing squirrels younger than 5 days old please do not panic about this. In fact, all of my six came in at about a week old or older, except Robbie, and they have been on FV and Ultra Boost and are doing GREAT. This is strictly a neonate issue, which most of you will not encounter.

I haven't spoken to Nick at FV yet, but I will. In the meantime, should you get in a very young pinky, it would be wise to start him on the Goat's milk formula and transition to FV at around 10 days old, to be on the safe side. (10 days is when the umbilical stump typically falls off. )

I welcome comments, corrections and suggestions to this thread; this is an ongoing discussion about an extremely serious issue and we need everyone's input.


IR

I just got 5 babies on 7/30/2014. (3 Females, 2 Males).
Been feeding them goats milk formula with heavy whipping cream & yogurt.
And they are eating well.
My FV just came today, haven't opened it yet. Attached is a photo of the size of my babies.
(Check my new photo album for their names and other photos of all of them).
My Vet contacted me in regards to these babies. Someone dropped them off.
Mama is dead.
I'm not sure how old they are. Hope someone can tell me by the photo.

They have no umbilical stump now at all. So should I use the FV or send it back?
I don't want to take a chance since they all are healthy little ones.

[SammysMom]

These babies look like my 3 week old babies and I am using Esbilac powder with probiotics because when I was using 50/50 Esbilac/FV 32/40, they were getting constipated. I will be using Esbilac and when they are 4 - 5 weeks old, I will go to half FV 20/50 and half Esbilac for the rest of their time on formula.

I just got 5 babies on 7/30/2014. (3 Females, 2 Males).
Been feeding them goats milk formula with heavy whipping cream & yogurt.
And they are eating well.
My FV just came today, haven't opened it yet. Attached is a photo of the size of my babies.
(Check my new photo album for their names and other photos of all of them).
My Vet contacted me in regards to these babies. Someone dropped them off.
Mama is dead.
I'm not sure how old they are. Hope someone can tell me by the photo.

They have no umbilical stump now at all. So should I use the FV or send it back?
I don't want to take a chance since they all are healthy little ones.

[Milo's Mom]

My 2.5 - 3 week olds are doing just fine on the 50/50 of Esbilac and FV 32/40 and they've been on that mixture since July 16 when they were maybe 4-6 days old.


EDIT: That is Esbilac with probiotics!

[Nancy in New York]

I just got 5 babies on 7/30/2014. (3 Females, 2 Males).
Been feeding them goats milk formula with heavy whipping cream & yogurt.
And they are eating well.
My FV just came today, haven't opened it yet. Attached is a photo of the size of my babies.
(Check my new photo album for their names and other photos of all of them).
My Vet contacted me in regards to these babies. Someone dropped them off.
Mama is dead.
I'm not sure how old they are. Hope someone can tell me by the photo.

They have no umbilical stump now at all. So should I use the FV or send it back?
I don't want to take a chance since they all are healthy little ones.

I am guessing that your little ones are 2+ weeks old.
Do you have weights on them?
You know to feed the 5-7% of their body weight, right?
If your FV is 20/50 I would keep it. For now I would get the
powdered Esbilac with probiotics and start them on that at a 1 part Esbilac to 3 parts water
for about 3-4 feedings, then increase to 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts water.
When they are a little older ~4-5 weeks if you want you can do a combination of FV 20/50 AND Esbilac.
Good luck with your babies, you are doing an excellent job!

[Monipenny]

After having struggles with my baby with constipation and bloating which I managed so far to keep under control, this thread has been brought to my attention, I just finished reading every single post. I currently have a thread on these concerns here http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ondition/page2

This thread has me concerned so I am heading out now to pick up Esbilac, should I start out diluting it and mixing it 50/50 with the 32/40 FV that she had been eating? Or do I make a complete switch in one feeding diluted or full strength.

I do have some left over 20/50 FV that has been in my freezer for about 1 3/4 years stored in a sealed container, would that still be good to use at her 4-5 weeks of age which is very soon approaching. I can and will order a new bag of 20/50 so that I have it after I get home from vacation on Aug. 15 If I am going to mix 50/50 FV and Esbilac. Is straight Esbilac without FV recommended? Thank you for helping.

[Nancy in New York]

After having struggles with my baby with constipation and bloating which I managed so far to keep under control, this thread has been brought to my attention, I just finished reading every single post. I currently have a thread on these concerns here http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ondition/page2

This thread has me concerned so I am heading out now to pick up Esbilac, should I start out diluting it and mixing it 50/50 with the 32/40 FV that she had been eating? Or do I make a complete switch in one feeding diluted or full strength.

I do have some left over 20/50 FV that has been in my freezer for about 1 3/4 years stored in a sealed container, would that still be good to use at her 4-5 weeks of age which is very soon approaching. I can and will order a new bag of 20/50 so that I have it after I get home from vacation on Aug. 15 If I am going to mix 50/50 FV and Esbilac. Is straight Esbilac without FV recommended? Thank you for helping.

Make sure that you get the Esbilac (powdered) with probiotics it will say this on the front label near the top.
I would get her off of the 32/40. For now I would do a slow switch of 50/50 Esbilac with the 32/40 (only because I'm not sure if your 20/50 is still good). You have to transiition or they will get diarrhea, and we don't want that. Do the 50/50 for 3-4 feedings, then go to 1/4 FV and 3/4 Esbilac with probiotics. Order the 20/50 and she will be perfect. Many do keep them on the Esbilac and they have done wonderfully. I still like the 50/50 ONLY with the 20/50 though.

[Shewhosweptforest]

I would mix your FV and Esbilac ....just for the first few feedings 75/25 for several feedings then 50/50 for several more then maybe to straight Esbilac with probiotics or try another feeding at 25/75 ....you should be able to transition in a day...day and a half, depending on how many times you're feeding a day.....I don't think it's recommended to jump from one to the other unless you're having severe issues with the FV....I just reread your other thread....and since she's not doing too bad now on FV ...I don't see why you couldn't do the gradual switch over....you could even continue to use the diluted FV during the switch...I was taking care of a pinkie this week who was trying to bloat...I had her on 50/50 GM and Esbilac. I finally diluted her Esbilac....she's doing fine now I don't know if that's what helped.

Good luck...you're doing great! Lots of people (me included) still use FV ...but only for older babies ....not for pinkies your baby is heading into that older category so she may be fine with the FV now....or perhaps a 50/50 FV/Esbilac. I know there is so much info out there....let your baby tell you what she needs...judge by her responses

[Monipenny]

Thanks everyone, Just got home with Esbilac and read up here, have to go mix the milk, and feed her, it's time. I will not start her on the esbilac until her NEXT feeding to give it time to set.