FOX VALLEY & PINKIES: Discussion Thread

[Nancy in New York]

So very sorry to read about little Susi.

It really is so heartbreaking to KNOW that a product that we loved
and trusted so completely is now taking the lives of our babies.

I start them all off on the Esbilac with Probiotics and then gradually switch to
50/50. Even my 4 month olds who still take formula, aren't on full Fox Valley, they
still get the combo.

I'm so sorry Maura.

Susi

[Chickenlegs]

Last spring I used one third goats milk formula, one third Esbilac with probiotics and one third Fox Valley 20/50. Everybody grew up big and strong including a teeny pinky name of Fella. This summer I'm scared to death to put Fox Valley into any formula. A tiny 11 gram pinkie stopped up on straight Esbilac so I REALLY believe that the eency babies need straight goats milk with full fat yogurt for the first week or so, then add the cream and THEN get em slowly onto Esbilac. I lost a tiny possum last spring and in hind sight I think it was the Fox Valley. Little guy stoppered up and I couldn't get him moving with a grenade launcher.

[Nancy in New York]

Last spring I used one third goats milk formula, one third Esbilac with probiotics and one third Fox Valley 20/50. Everybody grew up big and strong including a teeny pinky name of Fella. This summer I'm scared to death to put Fox Valley into any formula. A tiny 11 gram pinkie stopped up on straight Esbilac so I REALLY believe that the eency babies need straight goats milk with full fat yogurt for the first week or so, then add the cream and THEN get em slowly onto Esbilac. I lost a tiny possum last spring and in hind sight I think it was the Fox Valley. Little guy stoppered up and I couldn't get him moving with a grenade launcher.

When you did the straight Esbilac, did you do 2 parts water to 1 part Esbilac.
You may be right about starting them on the Goat's Milk formula when they are that tiny!

I just wanted to edit this post after the fact.
What I wrote above is a mistake.
I meant to say 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts water.
I just needed to clarify this here in case someone doesn't read down further.

[Mommaluvy]

Did FV change the way they make it ?

[Mountain Mama]

[kcassidy]

When you did the straight Esbilac, did you do 1 part water to 2 parts Esbilac or 3 parts?
You may be right about starting them on the Goat's Milk formula when they are that tiny!

Nancy,

I thought it was the other way around, 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts water, am I confused?

I asked on FB, but will ask here too, what should I feed baby bunnies and Opie's if I don't feed the FV? (up to 4weeks)

[Nancy in New York]

Nancy,

I thought it was the other way around, 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts water, am I confused?

I asked on FB, but will ask here too, what should I feed baby bunnies and Opie's if I don't feed the FV? (up to 4weeks)

OMG DID I REALLY WRITE THAT??????
Kim you are RIGHT! Geez, I think I need another vacation.
Good Catch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Irishgal59]

As a wildlife rehabilitator and admin here, I can't live in denial anymore.
There IS a problem with FV and very young pinkies....LESS THAN 5 days old.

For whatever reason, rehabbers all over the country are having difficulty with FV 32/40, even when combined with Ultra Boost, not being digested by very young pinky squirrels. The stuff stays in their gut for hours and hours....the milk line never moves. I saw it in my little Robbie, who died. Nancy in NY had the same experience with a pinky red, who died. UDoWhat had a similar experience and reported to me that others in her area were baffled by the same syndrome in their neonates on FV.

First off: if you are NOT rehabbing squirrels younger than 5 days old please do not panic about this. In fact, all of my six came in at about a week old or older, except Robbie, and they have been on FV and Ultra Boost and are doing GREAT. This is strictly a neonate issue, which most of you will not encounter.

I haven't spoken to Nick at FV yet, but I will. In the meantime, should you get in a very young pinky, it would be wise to start him on the Goat's milk formula and transition to FV at around 10 days old, to be on the safe side. (10 days is when the umbilical stump typically falls off. )

I welcome comments, corrections and suggestions to this thread; this is an ongoing discussion about an extremely serious issue and we need everyone's input.


IR

I just got 5 babies on 7/30/2014. (3 Females, 2 Males).
Been feeding them goats milk formula with heavy whipping cream & yogurt.
And they are eating well.
My FV just came today, haven't opened it yet. Attached is a photo of the size of my babies.
(Check my new photo album for their names and other photos of all of them).
My Vet contacted me in regards to these babies. Someone dropped them off.
Mama is dead.
I'm not sure how old they are. Hope someone can tell me by the photo.

They have no umbilical stump now at all. So should I use the FV or send it back?
I don't want to take a chance since they all are healthy little ones.

[Chickenlegs]

When you did the straight Esbilac, did you do 1 part water to 2 parts Esbilac or 3 parts?
You may be right about starting them on the Goat's Milk formula when they are that tiny!

I did 2 parts water to 1 part Esbilac (with probiotics) powder. Bea--like Miracle was 11grams. Julie is giving her half Goatsmilk with yogurt only and half Esbilac formula. That right Julie?

[SammysMom]

These babies look like my 3 week old babies and I am using Esbilac powder with probiotics because when I was using 50/50 Esbilac/FV 32/40, they were getting constipated. I will be using Esbilac and when they are 4 - 5 weeks old, I will go to half FV 20/50 and half Esbilac for the rest of their time on formula.

I just got 5 babies on 7/30/2014. (3 Females, 2 Males).
Been feeding them goats milk formula with heavy whipping cream & yogurt.
And they are eating well.
My FV just came today, haven't opened it yet. Attached is a photo of the size of my babies.
(Check my new photo album for their names and other photos of all of them).
My Vet contacted me in regards to these babies. Someone dropped them off.
Mama is dead.
I'm not sure how old they are. Hope someone can tell me by the photo.

They have no umbilical stump now at all. So should I use the FV or send it back?
I don't want to take a chance since they all are healthy little ones.

[Milo's Mom]

My 2.5 - 3 week olds are doing just fine on the 50/50 of Esbilac and FV 32/40 and they've been on that mixture since July 16 when they were maybe 4-6 days old.


EDIT: That is Esbilac with probiotics!

[Nancy in New York]

I STUPIDLY, STUPIDLY STUPIDLY started Little Susi, a 10-day old pinky, on half FV/half Esbilac two days ago because that's what her older brother 'Berto is on. She is completely constipated and started to bloat last night but I was able to keep it under control with constant massaging and warm water soaks.....she is now in danger of either starving or dehydrating to death because if I give her more than half a cc of anything she bloats again. I KNOW it is the FV 32/40, because this is what happened to so many of our pinkies last year.


I WAS STUPID. DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!! I will not give FV 32/40 to ANYTHING under three weeks old ever again.

Pray for my little Susi........

Too many problems yet again/still with the 32/40 Fox Valley to take chances. I feel like
it's playing Russian Roulette with your babies life.
I know that I will no longer be recommending it to anyone.

[kcassidy]

OMG DID I REALLY WRITE THAT??????
Kim you are RIGHT! Geez, I think I need another vacation.
Good Catch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahahaha no worries, I just thought I'm an idiot and have been doing something wrong all this time

[kcassidy]

So I need to place another order, do I get 32/40 or not? Sounds like you are saying only for neonates, which I too get, but I have 3 cans of unopened Esbilac, so I'm not worried about that.

Still want to know what to do with neonate bunnies? I guess any Opie's I get will be older than 5 days and should be fine too.

Thanks for sharing IR and I'm so sorry that the lessons learned in this job is so d@mn expensive!!

[Nancy in New York]

So I need to place another order, do I get 32/40 or not? Sounds like you are saying only for neonates, which I too get, but I have 3 cans of unopened Esbilac, so I'm not worried about that.

Still want to know what to do with neonate bunnies? I guess any Opie's I get will be older than 5 days and should be fine too.

Thanks for sharing IR and I'm so sorry that the lessons learned in this job is so d@mn expensive!!

I wouldn't get the 32/40.
Maura almost lost her little Berto the other day because she opened a new bag of FV
and he started bloating. Berto is 2 1/2 weeks old.
This is the same bag of formula that Susi had.
If you are feeding older squirrels, I would use the Esbilac with probiotics and possibly do a 50/50 mix with FV 20/50.
For younger squirrels, I would just go with the Esbilac with probiotics.


I'm just reposting in case some of you didn't see Maura's post.

I lost little Susi this evening after 24 hours of desperately trying to save her.
As I mentioned in another thread, I stupidly gave Susi the same FV 32/40 & Esbilac Probiotics formula I was giving 'Berto with great success. 'Berto, however, is at least a week older. Susi wasn't ready, and I should have kept her on the Esbilac alone.

She did not do any poop for the first three feedings yesterday. I noticed at the 4th feeding that her milk line wasn't moving, and I became extremely concerned. We all found out LAST year what that could mean. So I gave her only hydration for one feeding and hoped for the best. She bloated.

From 7 last night to 7 tonight I tried everything. Warm water soaks....massage.....no more food until the bloat subsides....well it never did. I hydrated her drop by drop and only .5cc because nothing was going anywhere. Late last night she began to leak clear fluid from her anus. She was still strong, and so cooperative. I desperately wanted to save this brave tiny girl. It wasn't to be. Every drop I gave her caused more bloat. NOTHING was coming out of that body. She died in my hand.

Susi came in strong and perfect, and my stupidity killed her. Learn from my mistake.
Rest in the arms of the angels in the special place where pinkies go in Heaven, my precious little one.

Thanks everyone for your kind words and sympathies, and always intelligent comments, too
It is pretty much certain that Susi died of an ileus - an impassable blockage in her intestines. The fact that I thought I was losing 'Berto yesterday due to extreme constipation -- similar to how Susi started -- leads me to believe that Fox Valley 32/40 is a very bad formula for baby squirrels under 4 wks old, and caused the ileus in Susi. I switched 'Berto off it yesterday and went with pure Esbilac and he finally pooped two tiny poops after 16 hours of NOTHING. Thank God he did not bloat; two of them like that would have sent me out of rehabbing and into an institution forever.

It has now come to light that problems with 32/40 are not just with neonates and not just here on TSB. We will post more about that later, as Admins are discussing how to best communicate the information at hand.
In the meantime, 'Berto says thanks, and he's feeling much better!

[Milo's Mom]

So I need to place another order, do I get 32/40 or not? Sounds like you are saying only for neonates, which I too get, but I have 3 cans of unopened Esbilac, so I'm not worried about that.

Still want to know what to do with neonate bunnies? I guess any Opie's I get will be older than 5 days and should be fine too.

Thanks for sharing IR and I'm so sorry that the lessons learned in this job is so d@mn expensive!!

I'd contact someone that does bunnies and opies regularly and successfully, like maybe Squirrelsrule&bunniestoo. I think Chickenlegs does Opies often and Squirelgirl does bunnies all the time. Rhapsody also does opies quite often.

[Anne]

Magna also does a lot of bunnies. Send him a PM.

[Nancy in New York]

I just got 5 babies on 7/30/2014. (3 Females, 2 Males).
Been feeding them goats milk formula with heavy whipping cream & yogurt.
And they are eating well.
My FV just came today, haven't opened it yet. Attached is a photo of the size of my babies.
(Check my new photo album for their names and other photos of all of them).
My Vet contacted me in regards to these babies. Someone dropped them off.
Mama is dead.
I'm not sure how old they are. Hope someone can tell me by the photo.

They have no umbilical stump now at all. So should I use the FV or send it back?
I don't want to take a chance since they all are healthy little ones.

I am guessing that your little ones are 2+ weeks old.
Do you have weights on them?
You know to feed the 5-7% of their body weight, right?
If your FV is 20/50 I would keep it. For now I would get the
powdered Esbilac with probiotics and start them on that at a 1 part Esbilac to 3 parts water
for about 3-4 feedings, then increase to 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts water.
When they are a little older ~4-5 weeks if you want you can do a combination of FV 20/50 AND Esbilac.
Good luck with your babies, you are doing an excellent job!

[Monipenny]

After having struggles with my baby with constipation and bloating which I managed so far to keep under control, this thread has been brought to my attention, I just finished reading every single post. I currently have a thread on these concerns here http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ondition/page2

This thread has me concerned so I am heading out now to pick up Esbilac, should I start out diluting it and mixing it 50/50 with the 32/40 FV that she had been eating? Or do I make a complete switch in one feeding diluted or full strength.

I do have some left over 20/50 FV that has been in my freezer for about 1 3/4 years stored in a sealed container, would that still be good to use at her 4-5 weeks of age which is very soon approaching. I can and will order a new bag of 20/50 so that I have it after I get home from vacation on Aug. 15 If I am going to mix 50/50 FV and Esbilac. Is straight Esbilac without FV recommended? Thank you for helping.

[Nancy in New York]

After having struggles with my baby with constipation and bloating which I managed so far to keep under control, this thread has been brought to my attention, I just finished reading every single post. I currently have a thread on these concerns here http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ondition/page2

This thread has me concerned so I am heading out now to pick up Esbilac, should I start out diluting it and mixing it 50/50 with the 32/40 FV that she had been eating? Or do I make a complete switch in one feeding diluted or full strength.

I do have some left over 20/50 FV that has been in my freezer for about 1 3/4 years stored in a sealed container, would that still be good to use at her 4-5 weeks of age which is very soon approaching. I can and will order a new bag of 20/50 so that I have it after I get home from vacation on Aug. 15 If I am going to mix 50/50 FV and Esbilac. Is straight Esbilac without FV recommended? Thank you for helping.

Make sure that you get the Esbilac (powdered) with probiotics it will say this on the front label near the top.
I would get her off of the 32/40. For now I would do a slow switch of 50/50 Esbilac with the 32/40 (only because I'm not sure if your 20/50 is still good). You have to transiition or they will get diarrhea, and we don't want that. Do the 50/50 for 3-4 feedings, then go to 1/4 FV and 3/4 Esbilac with probiotics. Order the 20/50 and she will be perfect. Many do keep them on the Esbilac and they have done wonderfully. I still like the 50/50 ONLY with the 20/50 though.