need some help and advice

[squirbymomma]

I have 2 sqs about 3 mo old. They are doin ok buti was wondering why the girl is so much different from the boy. She has always been half his size but eats aabout the same and hasn't caught up. He is fluffy she isn't he crawls all ovwr the 4 foot cage and she eather stays on the heat pad or once in a while she will get off it to munch some nuts or avacado. She isn't fast alert and well squirrelly. She is slow and she has a maybe drunken look to her. Is it possable she was injured when her nest was cut from the tree"trimming company" idk I hope she catches up because I want to release them together and at this rate he will have to wait for her or be released by himself...4please help

[farrelli]

Could have been injured, but it could be diet. Please specify what they eat each day.

[squirbymomma]

They eat same he eats a little more of each... avacado nuts cashewe almonds walnut peanut and about 2x a day 3 cc pedialite & 8-9 cc of formula each. Only 2x because they have started to reject. Neither will drink water although they have had waterbottle in cage for 3 mo and iv tried to show them. I offer raisins grapes banana carrot sunflower seed apples and they snub all of them I have seen one small nibble from a banana. The switch to 2x a day was less than a week ago and they always have a variety to eat but choose not to except nuts n avacado. She seems to climb more when she hasn't had formula for a long while. Maybe she's just too fat to move arowlund.she was bloated and I did warm baths baby gas drops massages gerber prunes and lots o pedialite for 3 days and she is not bloated. I just don't understand y they r so different. Could they been born onat different times?

[squirbymomma]

Also I'm ha in problems learning how n where to post my questions on tsb so bear with me and ty for moving my post to a better spot. Also can I post video ?

[SammysMom]

Oh dear...that diet is not good at all! Stop the nuts and take a look at our nutrition forum here. They need a better diet or neither of them is going to do well in the long run. Here is a link to the healthy diet thread. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=39275

[SammysMom]

Yes you can post video. What kind of formula were they on and when did they wean from it? Stop the pedialyte immediately!! It has way too much salt for more than a 24 hour emergency hydration period.

[squirbymomma]

Keep in mind before scolding me that this is my first exp. With squirels and there is a lot odbad n good info out there but they had enfimil asoy baby powered formula their whole life and it was okayed by a vet I noticed the contraversy after 3 mo of feeding. They are not off totally they still take 8-9cc 2x a day. So should I switch the pedialite to water frim surringe. They won't drink from their water bottle. And ill look at the diet thank you. How about monkey biscuits I hear they r good for them? I'm attaching a pic of them I took today

[SammysMom]

These are littermates? Wow... we have to help you with their diet. This is a squirrel who looks really ill.
You won't get scolded, just helped. You have no way of knowing the right thing until someone tells you.

[SammysMom]

Okay, that formula is probably a good deal of the reason they are not thriving. It is great that they are still taking it because now you can get them into a good one. Start by changing to the temporary goats milk formula here:
Homemade Goats Milk Recipe -

1 cup Goats Milk * (if can - dilute)
1/3 cup Full Fat Vanilla Yogurt
1/3 cup Heavy Cream (frig section)

(lasts 72 hours in frig)

Then order Fox Valley which is for squirrels so is what is best for them. You can get it at henryspets.com
While you are ordering from Henry's order some Henry's Healthy Blocks Growth formula. They need nutrition desperately! These items will help them dramatically. Where in IL are you? Maybe we can find you some fast help.

[farrelli]

Yes, please change their diet immediately. If they won't drink plain water from the syringe, add a bit of sugar.

Please go out and get the ingredients for the goat milk formula right now and order the Fox Valley right after they've eaten. I think these guys, especially the smaller one, are in bad shape.

The vet may not know what he's talking about. There are very few vets with squirrel experience and often give bad advice.

[squirbymomma]

Trust me people told me everything I'm doing and now I'm feeling pretty bad for listening. I never saw a peramid like that and trust me I looked for 3 mo old sq diet. All soooo many opinions I'm glad I found this site. So I asked my local pet store about sq blocks. I got carrot shaped wood for grinding teeth. Is it the same as gunea pig block things. I only saw the big ping pong ball sized pellets for gunea pigs and rabbits or is that not what I need? They were a main food source for gunea pig and rats. And how do I get walnuts? Gather them? I can score most of the veggies at the grocery store and ill start cleaning out their nut stashes. My big boy seems to be doin great I compared pics and thought I was doin good. By the way they both had phenemonia about amonth ago and I got the antibotic and its gone

[farrelli]

Btw, monkey biscuits are OK, but rodent blocks (Harlan Teklad, Mazuri, Kaytee Forti Diet, etc.) are better and found in many pet stores, and Henry's Blocks are best. They should stay on formula for as long as possible (far past this age) and then transition to rodent blocks, and then add in veggies with a little bit of fruit and nut.

[cnmnnaturalist]

Switching them onto the Goat milk formula (and then Fox Valley and the Squirrel Blocks) and removing all of the previous diet items is their best option. They may need extra care for their digestive systems, since they have been fed foods that they should not have for at least another 8 months.

Along with the proper diet, you may also need to spend a lot more time caring for the little girl so she can catch up. She may need more mental stimulation and comfort to help her develop properly.

I'm sorry you got bad information. It really does help to get a look at a variety of information sources. I was lucky enough to find this board after being referred by a wildlife rehab site.

Be aware that because of the growth problems of the female, she may need longer care than the male. You may want to consider finding a rehabilitator if you feel you can't provide the care required. Hopefully with the new GOOD advice you'll get, we'll be able to turn this situation around and get her up to speed.

[SammysMom]

Forget the nuts completely for now. Clean out their stashes and go to Henryspets.com and place an order for Fox Valley Formula and Healthy Blocks. You are NOT going to get this quality from a local pet store. You may be able to find rat blocks but they are not going to be the quality of Henry's. I just can't stress the importance of this enough. You will lose the little one very soon if you do not make immediate changes. At this point it is touch and go at best even with the changes. Please do this asap!!!

[farrelli]

Forget about the walnuts for now, forget about any nuts. Nuts and fruit are treats only, not a real food source. Right now they need formula and blocks.

[SammysMom]

Where in IL are you? We may be able to find help more quickly for you.

[cnmnnaturalist]

Oh, and up until 9 months they need to be sticking to the Fox Valley 20/50 and Growth Squirrel Blocks (or equivalent nutritional supplement) as their PRIMARY diet. Mine are at 6 months and I won't be introducing them to other foods for another month or so (except an occasional safe treat, such as sunflower seed sprout or a little bit of vanilla yogurt after they eat their healthy foods).

[squirbymomma]

it sucks to think im hurting them. not helping them. do you think that a rehabber will take the lil girl? i hate to seperate them but they dont play or spend much time together any ways. the occasional nibble back and forth. mostly twiggs the big boy picks on her a little. i just thought since they were found looking this much different from eachother that it was normal for them to stay looking so much different. i really dont think the dif is because of diet although i completly agree diet needs an overhaul. how long will the ten dollar pack of fox valley last me and should i order the wean formula? is is crutail that i get the blocks u reccomend henrys or can i get the kaytees. i will if it is a must but the price dif was big
only because i worry about the girl i would be willing to concider a rehabber but i am attached and have been down a long hard road with them for 3 mo so i really want to watch them thrive in the yard and enjoy that part too. i am not selfish enough to take the chance if you think she is doin bad but i want to continue to try with my boy. he dont seem weak he seems like a squirrel. a big puffy jumping squirrelly monster boy and i feel like he is doing great the diet isnt holding him back too much because you cant tell anything is wrong with him
thanks for the help ev one

[SammysMom]

I am going to be gentle, but firm...
The boy may look healthy, but with the diet issues he is NOT. MBD is a disease that leaches the calcium from a squirrels body. It makes their bones very brittle and break easily. To separate them at this point seems really awful. They will both do better if they live together. I know you feel attached, but please put their well-being first and consider them going together if they can go.
You can get other blocks, but they do NOT provide the nutrition in the concentration that Henry's do. HHBs are fed only 2 per day to attain optimum nutrition. Others require many times that. Also, they only work if they eat them and after eating nuts etc. the change to block will not be easy. Without eating properly asap they will not make it.
Where are you in IL? We may be able to find help for you that is close to you that does not require you giving them up.

[squirbymomma]

another question when i recieve this formula im hoping it is powder and can i stick with the same ammt. i m switching from pedialite to water so i ive them 3 cc 2x a day and with the goat milk or fox valley can i continue to give them 7-9 cc 2x per day or should i up or down the ammount increase or decrease the x/day i feed them? give me a guideline as to the ammounts please and keep in mind twigs gets mad about it and grunts at me i have to force anything past 3-4 cc of liquid he coopreates most of the time but i can tell he dont like it the girl still takes formula but they both hate any other liquid!

on my way to the store