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Thread: Blood in Urine

  1. #1
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    Question Blood in Urine

    Resilie has recurring blood in urine confirmed by two UA's two weeks apart.
    She had a full round of SMZ for 14 days.
    The blood wasn't as high in the second UA. No crystals, no bacteria, and no full blood cells in the second UA.
    She acts fairly normal for the most part other than the bloody urine, eating, drinking formula twice daily and I've witnessed her drinking water.
    When it first started she was crying out a bit when urinating but that hasn't happened since she started antibiotics.
    Urine clears up here and there but then the blood returns.
    At this time we are holding off giving anymore antibiotics since she had a full round and the blood seems to appear on and off.
    My vet and myself are perplexed, she has posted on the vet board to see if anyone has an idea of what could be causing this, I'm posting here.
    We have tried looking for outside factors but I haven't changed detergent, I haven't shampooed the carpet. Her diet is approximately the same healthy veg, FV am and pm, block and since this started she gets 3 cranberries a day which she usually eats. The only two things that are different is that before the first UA I started giving her pine cones (1-2 a week) and I put two Live Oak trees in her room planted in sterilized compost with lettuces (1 head of butter and several young chinese cabbages and one cauliflower plant), she's eated from the lettuces, the dirt and the trees. Since the UA I have bought a water bottle and add vitamin C to that but she doesn't drink out of the water bottle.
    She is 4 months old as of the 12/10/12 could it be estrus? Has anyone had a squirrel enter estrus early?
    Has anyone experienced anything like this?

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    This is the only thing I really pull up - the animal in question is a cassowary - a large bird, but it is a veterinary paper:

    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21101490970671

    Might send that to your vet. Regular oaks like they have here in the north (red oaks, etc) have significant poisoning issues for HORSES. Needless to say, the squirrels collect and eat the acorns from them, and live oak is a completely different species. I don't know if it is significant, but wanted to throw it out there.

    As a human, I have gotten UTIs for years. When I was younger, the treatment was sulfa meds which worked...slowly. It would be days before the really unpleasant symptoms went away. Nowadays when I get one they prescribe Cipro and it knocks the bad symptoms out with a single dose - just amazingly effective. The animal equal to that is Baytril. They may want to think about a round of that - it may be that the bacteria has become resistant to the sulfa meds, which SMZ is...

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Just got finished talking with my vet. She received two responses to her question on vet board both said to check for bladder stone. Xray scheduled for Mon. When my vet performs a UA they use dip sticks, and review under the microscope. They are looking for blood, bacteria, white blood cells, crystals, phosphates and at least two other things that I cannot remember. Out of all of those tests the only thing present in BOTH UA was blood. She was treated for a UTI because it w as the most likely culprit but she had a full 14 day run and no bacteria. Which is why we are trying to find another possible cause.
    I will forward the article to my vet and we will keep trying to figure this out. The live oaks are a FAVORED tree of the local squirrel population in our area which is why I felt safe putting them in her room. Is it possible for this to be an odd allergic reaction?

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Resilie had her xrays today and no stones. She also had blood drawn for a Lepto test.
    Here are pictures of her urine
    one is on a white background and one is on a pink background to show that it's more red than orange.
    I included a picture of her xrays and a picture of her teeth just to show that they are chipping on the top.
    Again there is no bacteria, no crystals, no anything except for blood in her urine.
    Vet and I are trying to figure this out so if anyone knows anything please feel free to share.




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    Jackie in Tampa is offline Left TSB to start her own Board
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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    bump...

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    Jackie in Tampa is offline Left TSB to start her own Board
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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    is she rubbing thsoe teeth on the cage bars/hardware cloth? if not she has an odd bite...
    gotta be the bars...
    what is her cage material? what type cage are you using ? galvanized? painted metal?
    If it were me.. I would opt for new cage today... just to be safe...
    I have no idea why there is blood in urine..
    however I would be concerned...
    please keep us in the loop..
    do you have follow up appt?

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    Jackie in Tampa is offline Left TSB to start her own Board
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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    .nancy will you ck chi chi's thread while I try to get them from here... Ty

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Was ph checked? Not sure if this works the same in squirrels, but in gliders, if ph gets off, it will actually cause irritation in the lining of the urethral tubes and cause blood in urine. Also, are you giving any extra calcium, in the form of a powder? I am asking because again, even though it is ground down to a powder, there can be sharp edges, that again in gliders can cause little cuts inside the walls of the tubes. Idk if this would apply but something to at least look into.
    President--Meemor Anonymous,
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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie in Tampa
    .nancy will you ck chi chi's thread while I try to get them from here... Ty
    Is this what we were looking for?



    Then we have the blood results of Chi Chi along with the reference range.


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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    JIT, her cage is Critter Nation, metal, painted bars spaced 1/2 inch apart. I've never caught her chewing on the bar only the plastic liner's and have pulled all but one out until she starts going after that one at least.
    She had one chip in her upper left tooth the other day after a hickory nut that she couldn't open. Then on Sun I gave her a Brazil nut and didn't check her teeth before I took her to the vet for Xray on Mon. I was shocked by how much more damage there was, I wanted a picture of the chip from the hickory nut only to see her upper's looking like that....
    I know the first chip was from the Hickory nut so I'm guessing that maybe the rest is from the brazil nut and nuts shouldn't be doing that to her teeth right?
    Pappy, yes phosorous was checked and negative, with both UA she had every test preformed and the only positive has been for blood.
    No I do not give her any extra calcium in powder form or otherwise. The only extra supplement that I have tried to give her is Vitamin C drops in her water but she won't drink it so I stopped that as soon as we were sure she didn't have any bacteria.
    She still drinks her FV in the morning and evening about 2 tablespoons a day which equates to aproximately 10cc per tablespoon.
    NINY, the only blood work that is being done to date is a test for Leptosporosis which was pulled yesterday to be sent off and my wonderful friend Claudia (Vet) knows how much I love this girl and was very concerned about the amount needed for the test from such a small creature. She adores Resilie as well and is just as concerned as I am about this unknown cause of blood in urine.
    Should we be performing a blood test? Should we be looking for something in particular?
    As it stands now she is pretty much behaving as her normal self. She eats, she drinks her FV, I've caught her drinking water several times, she plays, she runs, she cuddles. I keep checking her every morning since this has all started to make sure she's not getting dehydrated at night and she has always felt, looked great.
    She just has had this blood in her urine at different concentrations for going on 3 weeks at least.

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Not phosphorus, I meant ph as in alkaline or acidic. It can be checked by the urine itself. Is she dehydrated at all? With BUN and Creatinine elevated. Also liver enzymes are on the lower side, if I am reading this correctly.
    President--Meemor Anonymous,
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    PEANUT...YOU CHANGED ME FOREVER..AND TOOK MY HEART WHEN YOU LEFT.
    I WILL MISS YOU FOREVER AND A DAY.

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Pappy,
    for your response but.....
    I think your reading Chi Chi results.
    I never posted written results for Resilie. She was negative for everything in her urine analysis EXCEPT for blood. The first UA was a +4 blood and the second there were no full blood cells but it still tested positive with dip stick. My vet has even mentioned that she's surprised by the lack of much sediment which should indicate a clean urine sample.
    I also wanted to mention that my Vet is personally posting about Resilie on a Vet board similar to TSB where Vets can gather and share information, post questions etc.
    She posted last week and two vets recommended checking for stones even though she was only 4 months old which was why we did the xray.
    Claudia is right beside me learning with me as we go. Yes, she might keep calling Resilie "Nimble" the name of the paralyzed (back injury) squirrel she had for quite some time that we believe Raccoons took from her cage during the day even. But... she is willing to learn and trying everything in her power to figure this out.

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Oops, sorry! (Been sick with stomach thing for days, getting a little dilarious I think...lol)

    I hope they can find answers, but very good no stones!!
    President--Meemor Anonymous,
    Mary...
    MISS YOU NUT, LOVE YOU FOREVER.
    BEAN, NOW IN HEAVEN BUT FOREVER IN MY HEART,
    I AM A BETTER PERSON FOR HAVING LOVED YOU.
    BUDDY...YOU WERE MY BEST FRIEND AND I WILL MISS YOU FOREVER.
    PEANUT...YOU CHANGED ME FOREVER..AND TOOK MY HEART WHEN YOU LEFT.
    I WILL MISS YOU FOREVER AND A DAY.

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    This is probably way off base, but it's interesting that you brought up Brazil nuts. Do you feed her many? When I first saw this I was thinking of selenium poisoning because I had just gotten done discussing which nuts were bad for squirrels on another thread and Brazil nuts were fresh on my mind, so I totally disregarded it. Brazil nuts are super, super high in selenium and even adult humans shouldn't eat more than about five a day. I've never heard it cause blood in urine, but it can cause hair, nails and tooth problems, and I think that in squirrels their teeth are coated with a keratinous substance which would react the same as hair and nails in humans and become brittle and chippy. I know it's almost surely not the case, but she doesn't get a lot of Brazil nuts does she?

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/36...ium-poisoning/

    http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2007/...w-dangerous-i/

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Pappy no worries. I hope you feel better soon.
    Far, interesting but it was just something introduced this past weekend. She has always gotten walnuts, pecans, and the occasional acorn. This weekend I had found a whole shell on nut mix and thought she might enjoy the variety. She has had a hazelnut, an almond and a Brazil nut (which will be discontinued now). I think we will just stick with walnuts, pecans and the occasional hickory nut or acorn as they are located.

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    Jackie in Tampa is offline Left TSB to start her own Board
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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    I also have access to the vet web... big words..
    my vet and I use it when we are searching... not alot on there about sqs...
    Critter nation would not be an issue...
    keep writing and we will keep thinking and researching... someone will hit paydirt... got to...
    Sweet Resilie

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    JIT, Might have found what she was chewing if she was chewing on metal. Chain attached to hold UV lamp. Have moved it and I will continue to watch the teeth, they have bothered me for some time but haven't been able to get a picture by myself. I cannot put my finger on what bother's me exactly other than uppers are always sooo much shorter than lowers and something seems off.
    Everyone,
    Tomorrow I will get a copy of the UA reports and post them on here as soon as I can.
    I have gone over her diet over and over again and simply cannot figure out what if anything that she has not had regularly or just since this started three weeks ago that could be causing such an issue.
    My vet continues to wonder if it's possible that she is in early estrus since bladder seems so good otherwise. She even palpatated on Mon just to check and while she had a full bladder it was soft and squishy as it should be. Lets say she is in early estrus, unseasonably warm for her in her room, well fed, in captivity how long does that last?
    Meanwhile blood still present by the looks of things and I will continue to catch a sample when I can, not an easy task in a fleece covered open bar cage. But gives me something to work on while we await the lepto results.
    Thanks for the support, it's so wonderful to know that years of combined experience are putting their heads together on this issue.

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    Jackie in Tampa is offline Left TSB to start her own Board
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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    teeth LENGTH look good/normal.
    the odd WEAR is what bothers me... and it is not from a nut.
    Maybe that chain... good observation mom!
    waiting with you.

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Ms. Jackie, I simply went through her whole cage looking for any metal that had maybe been chewed and one half of the link that was inside of the cage had some possible teething marks.
    OK so here are all of Resilie's UA results. I hope you know what they all stand for since I only know some

    11/27/12

    SQ 1020
    PH 6
    Leuko +
    Prot +
    Gluc -
    Ketones -
    UBG -
    BE? could be Bie or BC -
    Blood ++++

    Sed. RBC +++
    WBC +

    12/12/12

    SQ 1015
    PH 7
    Leuko +
    Prot -
    Gluc -
    Ket -
    UBG -
    BE/BIE/BC -
    Blood ++++

    Sed. Neg for RBC, Neg for WBC, Neg for any cells of any kind

    12/19/12

    SQ 1017
    PH 7
    Leuko -
    Prot +
    Gluc -
    Ket -
    UBG -
    BE/BIE/BC -
    Blood ++++

    Sed. Neg for any cells of any kind

    Claudia my vet keeps asking me if any of you have any ideas or if any of your vets do. We have reached the point of instead of "How is your day" it's "Any news"
    I hope that this is helpful. As it stands now to us it seems like she started with a possible UTI. She had a full 14 day course of SMZ (11/28/12-12/12/12) and she still has visible blood in her urine but no known cause at this point.
    Thank you for all of your help and good thoughts

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    Default Re: Blood in Urine

    Great news is that Resilie doesn't have Lepto That came back as negative.
    I talked to my vet once again about bacteria and she said that to get a sterile sample Resilie will have to be gassed again and urine syringed out. She is hesitant to do that.... Is she convinced that it simply cannot be so or is it something else like the emotional attachment or the small size. I think it would be emotional since she works on rats, sugar glider's, guinea pigs, bunnies etc.
    Then she was asking me about porphyrins in Resilie's diet. I've been researching that like crazy. Rats have an illness that effects their skin and can cause blood in urine, usually also have red tears when they have too much porphyrins or aren't able to utilize the mineral?
    I will research this some more but to me it seems more logical that it could be bacterial since I know that ASG had a similar experience. I'm going to print out that thread for Claudia and see what she thinks then.

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