9 Year old Moby HELP

[RamiS]

Hi everyone,

Moby was feeling normal, playing, eating, pacing, doing his normal crazy thing until yesterday morning at 10 am, I washed his bedding and put it back and once I did that he went to bed which is normal after I wash his bedding ( i think he likes that it smells good and fluffed up) but the strange thing is he stayed in there most the day and when he came out he ate, drank water and back in, however last night he was presenting a very weak self, he didnt want to move much and when he did it was pretty much to get back to the bed, and even then he would make it to where half his body is inside and the rest is hanging outside flat on his stomach which is never how he sleeps. Throughout the night. I put his bunker bed in my bed next to me so I can keep a closer eye and feel things out, he came out around midnight and slept rite next to me under the covers which again was not something he does. This morning he did not want to leave his bed after I transitioned him to it, I carried him out, he went to drink water, no food (I offered the henry block with some honey) didnt want it. He went to bathroom (#1 & a little 2) both looked normal, no smell with urine.

Any advice here on this situation?

[Spanky]

Any chance he ate something spoiled, got into a house plant, etc?

Is it safe to assume he has a healthy diet following the food pyramid and MBD can be ruled out? Those poos almost look as if there is extra calcium that is not being processed... this similar to what we see when treating from MBD and it's time to back down the calcium.

He does not have any stashes where something may have gotten moldy or otherwise unhealthy and ate that?

Any recent application of pesticides in the house?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi RamiS:
I am so sorry to hear about little Moby's recent change in behavior! Specific concerns certainly include all that Spanky has mentioned! Please search diligently for stashes! From what you have communicated in the past, it seems that Moby's diet has been optimal but please list the details of this anyway! If there is any question at all about the adequacy of Moby's diet to prevent the development of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD); it would be my suggestion to immediately begin the Emergency Treatment for this from Henry's Website! If this is not MBD, the treatment will be harmless yet IF it is MBD, the treatment may be life-saving! Here is a link; https://henryspets.com/emergency-treatment-for-mbd/

Another consideration is the possibility of an infection and with that in mind, it may be worth considering the use of an antibiotic. I know that the ideal use of antibiotics is to first make a diagnosis that would potentially benefit from antibiotics and then begin treatment with an appropriate antibiotic but......
Do you have any antibiotics available (or from family or friends) and if so, what antibiotics do you have and what is the strength of the tablets or capsules or powder?

Also, RamiS, I must reluctantly mention the possibility that 9 year old Moby may be approaching his allotted life-span. Yes, Squirrels certainly have lived beyond 9 years but this is still a long (and wonderful) life for a Squirrel! I hope, however, that a definitive cause for what ails Moby can be found and an appropriate treatment plan can be expeditiously devised but I felt it best to mention this as a possibility. No matter what may be going on, Moby will benefit from the love and care and direct touches that you have always given him! You are a extraordinary Squirrel-parent!

I wish the best for Moby and for you, RamiS! Please keep us updated!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[RamiS]

Hi All, Here is his diet:

1.5 - 2 henry blocks a day
Snap peas (none sugar)
3-4 small-mid slices of avocados
2-4 blueberries
1-2 henry hazelnuts (in shell)
Fresh water (which he drinks throughout the day)
baby tomatoes

As for the injuries, none to mention. He has not had any falls, he was fine up until yesterday around noon, some of the things I have notices and got my attention only because he has never been seen to do this before:

Last night: Urinated where he usually does (with the exception that this time he did so and then laid in it)
I noticed that when he tried to go up the branches and the cat tree he has to get to his buncker, it wasnt as easy as it usually is
when he got to the bunker, half his body was inside the other bottom half was outside, flat on his chest and stomach.

Lates update as of now, he has so far eaten: Half a block with a drop of honey, half a grape, 1 blueberry, water and he is curled up in his bunker

First picture is when he peed and laid in it last night:


Second picture is now:

[Diggie's Friend]

For more info on Kidney Disease, see my thread in Specific Ailments sub forum, "Other"

Sending you a PM.

[supersquirrelgirl]

Hi RamiS,

Very sorry Moby is not feeling well. Has there been any shaking/trembling like we humans get when its the chills?? Is Moby warmer than usual ?? Moby pics look painful and he's moving as little as possible..

I'm thinking along the same lines as Spanky where this is related to bad food intake. Could the food he ate before washing bedding have something spoiled ?? His strange behavior began after you put his clean bedding back in. What was Moby like while you were washing bedding ?? Could he got into something during this time ??

Mr.SSG

[CritterMom]

If he continues like this, give him some additional hydration - put about a teaspoon of sugar in a cup of water and warm it ip. Offer it to him by syringe if he isn't interested. It will help with his blood sugar - to don't want that to drop because he isn't eating.

[RamiS]

Hi RamiS:
I am so sorry to hear about little Moby's recent change in behavior! Specific concerns certainly include all that Spanky has mentioned! Please search diligently for stashes! From what you have communicated in the past, it seems that Moby's diet has been optimal but please list the details of this anyway! If there is any question at all about the adequacy of Moby's diet to prevent the development of Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD); it would be my suggestion to immediately begin the Emergency Treatment for this from Henry's Website! If this is not MBD, the treatment will be harmless yet IF it is MBD, the treatment may be life-saving! Here is a link; https://henryspets.com/emergency-treatment-for-mbd/

Another consideration is the possibility of an infection and with that in mind, it may be worth considering the use of an antibiotic. I know that the ideal use of antibiotics is to first make a diagnosis that would potentially benefit from antibiotics and then begin treatment with an appropriate antibiotic but......
Do you have any antibiotics available (or from family or friends) and if so, what antibiotics do you have and what is the strength of the tablets or capsules or powder?

Also, RamiS, I must reluctantly mention the possibility that 9 year old Moby may be approaching his allotted life-span. Yes, Squirrels certainly have lived beyond 9 years but this is still a long (and wonderful) life for a Squirrel! I hope, however, that a definitive cause for what ails Moby can be found and an appropriate treatment plan can be expeditiously devised but I felt it best to mention this as a possibility. No matter what may be going on, Moby will benefit from the love and care and direct touches that you have always given him! You are a extraordinary Squirrel-parent!

I wish the best for Moby and for you, RamiS! Please keep us updated!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Hi Sam -

Good to hear from you I wish I had some antibiotics on hand just in case, but I do not, if anyone can send me some I am happy to pay and pay for shipping.

I am attaching a video from just a few minutes ago, please let me know your thoughts, he ate, peed, and went back to bed.

https://youtu.be/Ru-ccYQ6SoI This was at noon

https://youtu.be/toejzWHry2Q This was about an hour ago

[RamiS]

If he continues like this, give him some additional hydration - put about a teaspoon of sugar in a cup of water and warm it ip. Offer it to him by syringe if he isn't interested. It will help with his blood sugar - to don't want that to drop because he isn't eating.

Hi CritterMom - nice to hear from you

He did eat, I also uploaded a few videos now.

This is what he ate today:

Half Henry block with a drop of pure honey
2 slices of Avocado
1 blueberry
half a grape
tiny bit of a natrual peanut butter with a tiny bit of tums
normal water intake

[CritterMom]

Are the poops you took a pic of pretty normal for him or do they look different?

The head down, curled over posture is usually indicative of some kind of abdominal pain, but your description of him half in and half out of his house sounded MBD-ish, hence the questions. If he is having normal poops - that is, no diarrhea and no super hard constipation poops, it might be an idea to boost his calcium and trim the nuts down a bit and see if he perks up further. He certainly is looking better now that he was in your first post or two. Just adding another Henry's would do that.

His diet isn't bad but I think that it is likely they they need more attention paid to calcium/phosphorus as they age and what a young kid can do okay with isn't quite enough for a mature guy like him.

[RamiS]

Are the poops you took a pic of pretty normal for him or do they look different?

The head down, curled over posture is usually indicative of some kind of abdominal pain, but your description of him half in and half out of his house sounded MBD-ish, hence the questions. If he is having normal poops - that is, no diarrhea and no super hard constipation poops, it might be an idea to boost his calcium and trim the nuts down a bit and see if he perks up further. He certainly is looking better now that he was in your first post or two. Just adding another Henry's would do that.

His diet isn't bad but I think that it is likely they they need more attention paid to calcium/phosphorus as they age and what a young kid can do okay with isn't quite enough for a mature guy like him.

He sleeps curled up, thats his normal sleeping posture. The half and half was abnormal for him, for sure. The poop looks normal to me, granted he didnt have much this morning, 4-5 drops but again he did not eat anything last night or late evening. I am adding more tums for him in a blueberry if thats all I can get him to eat this evening, he came out of his buncker straight to laying down flat, so his energy is low

[RamiS]

So, he got out of his buncker and went into the first posture right away:



Then he pooped and this time I am not sure that this looks normal:




what do I do?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Sam -

Good to hear from you I wish I had some antibiotics on hand just in case, but I do not, if anyone can send me some I am happy to pay and pay for shipping.

I am attaching a video from just a few minutes ago, please let me know your thoughts, he ate, peed, and went back to bed.

https://youtu.be/Ru-ccYQ6SoI This was at noon

https://youtu.be/toejzWHry2Q This was about an hour ago

Hello again Rami:
I would suggest that you go ahead and start the the Emergency Treatment protocol for MBD that I linked to in my prior post immediately. Also, please just stop any treats, nuts, fruit or anything but Henry's Blocks and supplemental Calcium (Tums until you can get a Calcium supplement withOUT Vitamin D. Henry's does sell this! Please post the label for the Tums you are using and we can tell you what the Elemental Calcium is for each tablet and how many tablets Moby should have each day. Ideally, the Tums or the additional Calcium source is to make up for the calcium losses causing MBD and consuming 2-3 Henry's Blocks each day will provide the necessary maintenance (necessary every day) Calcium.

I don't know that Moby has MBD but under the circumstances; while there may not be any reasonable means to rule this in, we cannot rule it out either and IMHO; MBD should be considered a reasonable possibility if we cannot yet define what is the cause for Moby's change in behavior! Rarely is a treatment for anything free of risk but the treatment for MBD comes very close! It should be safe to use in most cases even if MBD is not the cause of the problems that you observe. I would stick with this Emergency Diet and "encourage" Moby to drink water (use of a syringe withOUT a needle can be utilized to give some extra warm water with flavoring if desired such as using 1 teaspoon of molasses or syrup per cup of water) while on the MBD Treatment! While MBD will take months of treatment to reach a steady state or hopefully full resolution; often there is a significant improvement in or even resolution of the behavioral changes in hours to several days! If you would consider starting this treatment, I would like to ask that you give this plan at least 4 full days before possible reconsideration unless a different and definitive diagnosis presents becomes evident!

Please post Moby's weight from a digital scale preferably in Grams.

I sent a PM to you!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[RamiS]

Hi Sam - Thank you for getting back to me so quickly -

Attaching below of what I have (Tums, syrup) - The issue is I dont think he will eat a block tonight, and my concern is he would be constipated and getting more hard food makes it worse, NO?






If he wont eat tonight, whats the best route then?

Weight: 607 G

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

So, he got out of his buncker and went into the first posture right away:


Then he pooped and this time I am not sure that this looks normal:


what do I do?

Hi RamiS
I just noticed this post after I posted mine. What are your specific concerns about the poop. The photos are pretty good but nevertheless, please also describe what you are seeing since your are right there with the poop! Is the stool black as it appears or is it really dark brown. Truly black stool is suspicious for upper gastrointestinal bleeding and is this is called melena. The truly black poop of melena not dark brown and is usually soft and has a foul odor.
Regards,
StS

[RamiS]

Hi STS -

My concern was that the poop was a little harder than usual, usually its more moist, and this had some pumps to it, but no odor at all. Yeah, the camera threw the colors off a little, it was blackish and he seemed to have a harder time getting them out, Again its not like I watch him most times he does pop, but just from what I see.

[CritterMom]

Regarding the syrup you put up - don't use that in hydration fluid. It is sugar free, and in this case you WANT the sugar. It will do several things - it will make the water taste interesting and he may drink more, it will help prevent him from becoming hypoglycemic from not eating much. And drinking plenty of water will help if he is constipated as well.

Those Tums have 300mg of actual calcium in them, not 750mg. The weight of the pill is 750mg but more than half of that is stuff to stick the tablet together, coloring, flavoring, etc. So having one of those Tums will provide 300mg calcium.

[RamiS]

Ok - Should I get pure maple syrup instead?

[RamiS]

Ok - Should I get pure maple syrup instead?

or Wholesome Organic Blackstrap Molasses?

[CritterMom]

Well, molasses is often suggested because in addition to being sweet it also has calcium in it, but few people have a jar of molasses hanging around these days. As I mentioned, you can use plain old sugar - one skinny teaspoon in a cup of water. Honey will work. You just don't want artificial sweeteners because they do not act the same in the body as sugar does.