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Thread: Dehydrated with MBD?

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    Default Dehydrated with MBD?

    Giving unsweetened cranberry apple juice with calcium water and clover honey. She seems dehydrated with poop the color of beige and crumbly. She is lethargic and not hungry. She is fighting the water but I do get her calcium in her. Hasn't peed in 3 days. It's Miss Suzy.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Poor Miss Suzy
    She definitely is dehydrated. Are you giving her plain water, pedialyte or homemade pedialyte for hydration? Since she likes honey, maybe you could flavor her water with a little bit of honey?
    I have treated MBD a couple of times, but my patients luckily didn't give me problems with hydration.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by lukaslolamaus View Post
    Poor Miss Suzy
    She definitely is dehydrated. Are you giving her plain water, pedialyte or homemade pedialyte for hydration? Since she likes honey, maybe you could flavor her water with a little bit of honey?
    I have treated MBD a couple of times, but my patients luckily didn't give me problems with hydration.
    Thank you for responding. Okay so I just looked on the Squirrel Board and it says that she should be getting 2-3 Tbsp of water per day and she is getting 2 tsp. with the entire calcium, clover honey, cranberry apple juice water combined!! I don't know how to do pedialyte homemade or what to get at the store. Are there different types? Could you guide me on a schedule for her through the night as she acts like she is just fading and wants to sleep? I got plain water 1.0 mL in her an hour ago. She is done with her calcium for the day so I could hydrate with water or whatever you tell me all night.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Homemade rehydration recipe
    1quart of warm water
    1 teaspoon salt
    3 tablespoons sugar
    Mix it really well

    I'm not sure how much or how often would be correct, but probably small amounts often so her body can absorb it.
    Be careful not to aspirate her while hydrating

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Cranberry juice is high in potassium, which if you add the water to the cranberryjuice , instead of the cranberry juice (smaller portion) to the water with the calcium, you could be lowering sodium absorption, resulting in dehydration.

    To support hydration add a bit of the cranberry juice to the hydration solution as noted above, not the other way around.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by lukaslolamaus View Post
    Homemade rehydration recipe
    1quart of warm water
    1 teaspoon salt
    3 tablespoons sugar
    Mix it really well

    I'm not sure how much or how often would be correct, but probably small amounts often so her body can absorb it.
    Be careful not to aspirate her while hydrating
    I've made it and got 1mL in her. I will keep doing this every 2 hours so she can sleep too. Thank you SO much!! Hydration here we come!

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Oh and I forgot!
    The hydration fluid needs to be refrigerated and replaced after 24 hours.
    Sending prayers your way, I hope Miss Suzy will feel better in the morning.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Do not use the cranberry as the base; use the mixture as noted, and only add a no more than a few drops of the cranberry to it.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    She seems dehydrated with poop the color of beige and crumbly.
    The Homemade rehydration recipe is complete with what's needed, no additives need or should be added as long as you can get her to take it.
    She will also need nourishment! Hydrate her for a couple feedings, get her back on formula 1-2 powder to water and give hydration in between feedings.
    Do not add calcium into her hydration also. The beige and crumbly bowels are suggesting you are feeding too much calcium.
    Have you been going by the per week, per day calcium milligrams spread out through the day as recommended by the mbd protocol?
    If you have been winging it, too much. If you have been going by the protocol, cut back.
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    The Homemade rehydration recipe is complete with what's needed, no additives need or should be added as long as you can get her to take it.
    She will also need nourishment! Hydrate her for a couple feedings, get her back on formula 1-2 powder to water and give hydration in between feedings.
    Do not add calcium into her hydration also. The beige and crumbly bowels are suggesting you are feeding too much calcium.
    Have you been going by the per week, per day calcium milligrams spread out through the day as recommended by the mbd protocol?
    If you have been winging it, too much. If you have been going by the protocol, cut back.
    Hey Stepnstone! Okay so I was using the quarter tsp as told to me by Lee at Henry's. I do it through out the day from 7a-11p. I was mixing it in filtered water, with a touch of clover honey and a a bit of cranberry apple juice, unsweetened. This was all rec. by Lee at Henry's. I started that Tuesday, 8/6. She was eating water melon and that's about it, also rec. by Lee. She peed ALOT twice on Thursday, 8/8. By Sat., 8/10 things went awry. She didn't want to eat good or bad stuff, will not eat the blocks, no matter what I do to them. I kept this calcium water up. Poop became beige and dry.

    Here's what I realized. I found an article on The Squirrel board that squirrels drink 2-3 Tbsp water a day. She was getting teaspoons a day and only as calcium water. She refuses to drink from her bowl. She is strong but seems depressed.

    I started the recipe last night at midnight. She has now gotten 1 teaspoon in her since midnight and it is just the recipe, no calcium. That takes 1 mL each time x 3. I need 3 more of those type feedings to get her to 1 Tbsp and hope to do that by 11:30 this morning. I am trying to pace it out perfectly.

    Let's talk nutrition. You said above Formula 1-2 powder to water. I haven't done formula. Are you talking about Esbalac. Please advise. I agree she needs nutrition but she has stopped eating as of now, not even water melon. She syringe feeds well!

    Thank you!

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    Hey Stepnstone! Okay so I was using the quarter tsp as told to me by Lee at Henry's. I do it through out the day from 7a-11p. I was mixing it in filtered water, with a touch of clover honey and a a bit of cranberry apple juice, unsweetened. This was all rec. by Lee at Henry's. I started that Tuesday, 8/6. She was eating water melon and that's about it, also rec. by Lee. She peed ALOT twice on Thursday, 8/8. By Sat., 8/10 things went awry. She didn't want to eat good or bad stuff, will not eat the blocks, no matter what I do to them. I kept this calcium water up. Poop became beige and dry.

    Here's what I realized. I found an article on The Squirrel board that squirrels drink 2-3 Tbsp water a day. She was getting teaspoons a day and only as calcium water. She refuses to drink from her bowl. She is strong but seems depressed.

    I started the recipe last night at midnight. She has now gotten 1 teaspoon in her since midnight and it is just the recipe, no calcium. That takes 1 mL each time x 3. I need 3 more of those type feedings to get her to 1 Tbsp and hope to do that by 11:30 this morning. I am trying to pace it out perfectly.

    Let's talk nutrition. You said above Formula 1-2 powder to water. I haven't done formula. Are you talking about Esbalac. Please advise. I agree she needs nutrition but she has stopped eating as of now, not even water melon. She syringe feeds well!
    Thank you!
    I was speaking about Esbilac formula, just forgot the age of your girl but if she will still take formula it's at least getting some nutrition in her.
    As long as she syringe feeds well try blending block with formula or different foods with the block and see if she'll take to it.
    All directives are based on average, all squirrels are not created equal. Regardless of how much calcium you have been giving, what reads how
    or who said what you need to cut it back. Her bowels are dictating that.
    Step-N-Stone
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    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    Hey Stepnstone! Okay so I was using the quarter tsp as told to me by Lee at Henry's. I do it through out the day from 7a-11p. I was mixing it in filtered water, with a touch of clover honey and a a bit of cranberry apple juice, unsweetened. This was all rec. by Lee at Henry's. I started that Tuesday, 8/6. She was eating water melon and that's about it, also rec. by Lee. She peed ALOT twice on Thursday, 8/8. By Sat., 8/10 things went awry. She didn't want to eat good or bad stuff, will not eat the blocks, no matter what I do to them. I kept this calcium water up. Poop became beige and dry.

    Here's what I realized. I found an article on The Squirrel board that squirrels drink 2-3 Tbsp water a day. She was getting teaspoons a day and only as calcium water. She refuses to drink from her bowl. She is strong but seems depressed.

    I started the recipe last night at midnight. She has now gotten 1 teaspoon in her since midnight and it is just the recipe, no calcium. That takes 1 mL each time x 3. I need 3 more of those type feedings to get her to 1 Tbsp and hope to do that by 11:30 this morning. I am trying to pace it out perfectly.

    Let's talk nutrition. You said above Formula 1-2 powder to water. I haven't done formula. Are you talking about Esbalac. Please advise. I agree she needs nutrition but she has stopped eating as of now, not even water melon. She syringe feeds well!

    Thank you!
    I tested her with food to see if it is what I am trying to feed her or if she is truly not wanting to eat. She would not eat avocado. She would eat the tip of a nutter butter cookie. Perked right up! Even licking her paws to get every bit. She knows how to take my heart, stomp on it, play me, laugh at me and give me my heart back. Ten years we have been together. She knows me better than I know me. SOOO it is not an issue of being unable to eat. SHE IS NOT PEEING THOUGH!! Please advise me.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    I was speaking about Esbilac formula, just forgot the age of your girl but if she will still take formula it's at least getting some nutrition in her.
    As long as she syringe feeds well try blending block with formula or different foods with the block and see if she'll take to it.
    All directives are based on average, all squirrels are not created equal. Regardless of how much calcium you have been giving, what reads how
    or who said what you need to cut it back. Her bowels are dictating that.
    Yes, got it. Okay so I am doing the hydration with no calcium and she is perking up and likes it. I think??? she is a bit damp at back end but no real pee. Could it be UTI? Antibiotics? I don't how to weight her? I have to go searching for my food weight.

    Second, I will go at 2pm as soon as I am off work and get her Esbilac. It's been 10 years so remind me. Is there different flavors or beginner, advances? Is it for puppies? I seriously don't remember what I gave her but I am leaning toward it was kitten formula 10 years ago. Educate me on the details of Esbilac so I don't get to the store and buy the wrong thing.

    Talk to me about calcium. Tell me what to do today? No calcium, just Esbilac? How much? This is going to be a day by day thing I can tell.

    I appreciate your help.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Plain unflavored pedialyte is available at market generally found in the baby food section.

    This one is formulated using organic white grape juice as the sugar source.

    https://www.naturesone.com/pediavanc...=92490C-config

    https://www.naturesone.com/pediavanc...e/?sku=91480-0

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    Yes, got it. Okay so I am doing the hydration with no calcium and she is perking up and likes it. I think??? she is a bit damp at back end but no real pee. Could it be UTI? Antibiotics? I don't how to weight her? I have to go searching for my food weight.

    Second, I will go at 2pm as soon as I am off work and get her Esbilac. It's been 10 years so remind me. Is there different flavors or beginner, advances? Is it for puppies? I seriously don't remember what I gave her but I am leaning toward it was kitten formula 10 years ago. Educate me on the details of Esbilac so I don't get to the store and buy the wrong thing.

    Talk to me about calcium. Tell me what to do today? No calcium, just Esbilac? How much? This is going to be a day by day thing I can tell. I appreciate your help.
    As long as she's taking the home made hydration keep it up, no need to change.
    Very possibly she has a uti, being wet could mean the bladder is full and leaking.
    Here is a video on how to express the bladder, if you can manage I would suggest
    checking to see if full and express if you can.

    How to express bladder video....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=8Cf0CwuDvlM

    Here is picture of correct Esbilac puppy formula:

    Name:  formula sm.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  32.4 KB

    Not saying stop the calcium, just saying cut back. Whatever you've been giving
    as a whole throughout the day cut it back to 2/3 of whatever that was.
    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Complete hydration before recommencing feeding.

    The stool should return to normal when this occurs.

    When rehydrated she should feel better, more like eating.


    Increase the whole diet Calcium to Phosphorus ratio:

    https://www.2ndchance.info/test.php?page=ratkidney

    Two studies in female rats found that diets with a higher Ca:P , (2:1 & 3:1) respectively, resulted in good bone density, vs. diets with a (1:1) Ca:P ratio, which poorly supported bone density in the rats.

    For reason of what is research article and these studies in rats have found, in order to support both the kidneys and bones of tree squirrels of advanced age, it is needful to lower phosphorus and raise calcium in the diet. On this account, I don't recommend feeding more than about 1 rodent block per day of the HHB picky eaters, but adding other sources lower in protein and phosphorus to the diet instead, as this is what has been found in rats to prolong the function of failing kidneys.


    Reasons to include Calcium citrate:

    Calcium citrate stays in the bloodstream longer.

    By equal calcium elemental measure, it fortifies the bones better than calcium carbonate due to the organic citrate compound it contains, that results in less loss of calcium into the urine.

    Calcium citrate inhibits oxalate stone forming in the kidneys, that more commonly occurs in (mammal) pets of advanced age.


    Calcium citrate (NOW) supplement measures:

    https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Cal...6&s=hpc&sr=1-5

    To bring the diet Ca:P ratio up using this source of Calcium citrate powder, noted to provide 630 mg. an elemental calcium per 1 1/2 tablespoon:

    Add (1/8 + 1/16) Tsp. of the Calcium citrate powder (NOW), and split it to feed AM and PM; add each half portion of Calcium citrate powder (1/16 + 1/32) level teaspoon measures, to low fat plain organic yogurt (1/2 Tsp.) each meal.

    My research diet for gray squirrels, that has been used by another member for a number of years, for their now 10 year old squirrel that is doing very well, has a similar higher ratio of Ca:P for their whole diet.

    Using powdered Calcium citrate, the Ca:P ratio can be easily raised up if needed to (3:1) in support of prolonging the function of the kidneys of squirrels of advanced age.

    Note: (Should the bottle note a higher or elemental measure, which some I have seen offered of this source, from this same company have, then please contact me by PM and I will adjust the dosage for you by Teaspoon fraction measures.)

    Should your squirrel won't eat it on their own, add water to dilute the yogurt and calcium enough so that it can be given using a feeding syringe.

    This yogurt has a positive calcium to phosphorus ratio, and is lower in protein that works for older squirrels.

    https://greenvalleylactosefree.com/p...e-plain-yogurt

    Do not feed Greek yogurt, it's too high in protein content for kidneys of squirrels of advanced age to handle.


    Feeding the block:

    For the HHB block you got, since squirrels are known to like coconut oil, try grinding up the HHB block you got and adding just enough organic virgin coconut oil to coat the grindings, not so much as to make it gloppy. (organic extra virgin coconut oil is recommended)

    You may want to try adding (1/4 Tsp.) of naturally sweetened applesauce (organic recommended) should this still not appeal to your squirrel.

    The company also offers a apple-peach blend in convenient small tubs. https://www.amazon.com/Santa-Cruz-Or.../dp/B003D4O9QQ


    Adding Healthy seed oils:

    Healthy seed oils are a real benefit to the health of older squirrels on a lower protein diet, as healthy plant fats provide a good source of calories for them.

    High in Omega 6 fatty acid, a good antioxidant source, organic pumpkin seed oil, has been found in rats to protect the liver from toxins.

    https://www.amazon.com/Pumpkin-Seed-...07CRPJBYF?th=1

    Chia oil (food grade) contains a high level of Omega 3 fatty (a-linolenic acid), which provides a healthy ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fatty acids to the diet. Add 2 drops daily; one drop with each meal. This also could be added to the rodent block mixture, or to put one drop on a portion of rodent block twice daily.

    See smaller 4 oz. bottle on page: https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Alive-A.../dp/B007788AZA

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Compared to using the flavored and fruit sweetened formulas of Pedialyte, and like type electrolyte sources, that are also used for the same purpose of rehydration, adding, 'a few drops' of the unsweetened cranberry juice to the plain hydration recipe noted here, not using the cranberry juice as a base for the formula, isn't going to make a drop in the bucket's worth of difference in supporting the well hydration of your squirrel than the plain alone.

    Since bladder stones can also impede the urine flow, you may want to check to see if you can feel any by gently palpating her lower abdomen with your fingertips for notably hard spot. Should you feel a hard lump, or there be unusual pain response while checking, then organic unsweetened cranberry juice, which dissolves the form of bladder stones that develop as a result of repeated UTIs, is one of the better sources that can be used to address this issue also. Since it takes time to dissolve alkaline bladder stones, you would need continue to include this juice daily, adding a few drops to her meals. The benefit of doing so even without these issues works to balance the mean urine pH of the diet, which is key to preventing UTI and the stones that they promote.

    As long as the drops of cranberry juice continues work so that she can void her bladder during hydration, and then afterwards without the hydration formula, there should be no need to expel her bladder manually.
    If not, then short of veterinary intervention, that is stressful on a squirrel but at times necessary, you would need to express her bladder for her.

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Were you able to scroll back to post #15 to see correct formula picture posted and link
    to see how to check fullness of bladder? I will post it again below.
    I've written out and sent the information we discussed to your private messages,
    let me know if you need the picture or have any questions....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=8Cf0CwuDvlM
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    As long as she's taking the home made hydration keep it up, no need to change.
    Very possibly she has a uti, being wet could mean the bladder is full and leaking.
    Here is a video on how to express the bladder, if you can manage I would suggest
    checking to see if full and express if you can.

    How to express bladder video....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=8Cf0CwuDvlM

    Here is picture of correct Esbilac puppy formula:

    Name:  formula sm.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  32.4 KB

    Not saying stop the calcium, just saying cut back. Whatever you've been giving
    as a whole throughout the day cut it back to 2/3 of whatever that was.
    I thought I was giving her Augmentin antibiotic and you were going to tell me how much based on the amounts I gave you. I'm sorry I don't see it. I see the expressing the bladder but would like to try the antibiotic first. Thank you!
    \

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    Default Re: Dehydrated with MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Suzy Joy Button View Post
    I thought I was giving her Augmentin antibiotic and you were going to tell me how much based on the amounts I gave you. I'm sorry I don't see it. I see the expressing the bladder but would like to try the antibiotic first. Thank you!
    \
    Go to the top of your page, left hand side under "what's new"
    2nd one over "private messages" click on that. It takes you
    to your private message folder.
    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
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