Help with feeding

[ACDsandAussies4me]

I have a 15 week old grey squirrel, he is a very picky eater and will not drink any water...How can I get him weaned onto water, any tricks?? Also he has started having siezures again, I can not get him to eat vegtables of any kind, nor rodent blocks...He does eat some dried fruits and nuts...I am thinking after reading all these posts that it is the calcium deficiency and I am heading out very soon to see what I can buy...I tried to talk to a vet not that long ago about him but she stopped me mid sentence and told me that if they knew I had a squirrel they would have to euthenize him immediatly, so that means no trips to the vet...I have had him since he was 5 weeks old...A young boy found him at the base of a tree...We left him there for around 5 hours, no mother, took him in over night and tried again the next day...I am seriously thinking this guy is deaf, he reacts to no noises what so ever...Any thoughts on that?? If I find the Cal-Tabs how much should I give him???
Thanks so much for your help,
Dianne
PS...This is the first I head of the Vitamin D, is the light that you use for retiles, the one that helps them digest food, a full spectrum light?? If so I have one, but never thought to use it..

[island rehabber]

I have a 15 week old grey squirrel, he is a very picky eater and will not drink any water...How can I get him weaned onto water, any tricks?? Also he has started having siezures again, I can not get him to eat vegtables of any kind, nor rodent blocks...He does eat some dried fruits and nuts...I am thinking after reading all these posts that it is the calcium deficiency and I am heading out very soon to see what I can buy...I tried to talk to a vet not that long ago about him but she stopped me mid sentence and told me that if they knew I had a squirrel they would have to euthenize him immediatly, so that means no trips to the vet...I have had him since he was 5 weeks old...A young boy found him at the base of a tree...We left him there for around 5 hours, no mother, took him in over night and tried again the next day...I am seriously thinking this guy is deaf, he reacts to no noises what so ever...Any thoughts on that?? If I find the Cal-Tabs how much should I give him???
Thanks so much for your help,
Dianne

Dianne, I see multiple problems here. First of all, what is your squirrel drinking if not water? He must be hydrated somehow or he wouldn't still be alive, so what does he drink? Secondly, you said he's starting to have seizures again...when did he have them before and what was the cause? If he only eats dried fruits and nuts, you must stop the dried fruits. Squirrels don't need much fruit anyway, and dried fruits are loaded with extra sugar and chemical preservatives, usually. If you don't give him dried fruits he may be encouraged to nibble on some sweet potato or carrot or corn on the cob. He must be given some calcium, as you've said...try to get the Prime powder at your local pet store that sells bird supplies, and sprinkle it on whatever your squirrel eats. If he's already begun to have seizures it is imperative that you begin these dietary changes or, as an alternative, we can help you find a rehabber who may be able to help him. At 15 weeks he should be releasable soon, depending on the weather in your area, but not if he is in poor health, of course. If you are holding onto him, it's even more crucial that he gets a really good diet going, quickly. There is lots of great nutritional info here on the Board.

[ACDsandAussies4me]

He is still on the puppy Esbilac....I will take away the fruits and try a sweet potato as that is one vegtable I hadn't tried...How many days can you let them refuse solids before you give in and give them back what you know they will eat???
We had him on the wrong type of formula in the beginning, that was when he had the seizures before...I had been in contact with a rehabber but she has disappeared on me, I have not recieved any return calls or e-mails..Thats how I found out about the formula and what to start feeding him..So now I come to you guys...
I have hand raised many animals in the past and it frustrates me that I can get a bunnie to take water but I can't get this squirrel to..Have hand raised very picky birds also with no probblems...Is it the wild factor possibly???
One last question you never commented on, what about hearing?? At this age shouldn't he be reacting to noises??
Thanks again.
PS...sent my mother to the store and I am reading posts now, looks like its going to be an all day job reading all the posts..lol

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

what kind of formula did you feed to start with?
If he is still drinking formula, thats probably why hes not drinking water, I wouldnt worry about that untill he isnt getting formula. Most squirrels have weaned themselfs by now.

Try kale & broccoli also for extra callcium.
What about light source is he getting sunlight everyday, 1 or 2 hours?
Or does he have a vitamin light?
The hearing I have no ideas about but yes you would think he would be responding to noises. I am not a rehabber but do know these facts. Good luck through I am sure a rehabber will be on shortly to help you.

[ACDsandAussies4me]

It was a puppy formula I got at the local feed store, some off brand I think...We could not find any esbilac within a 50 mile radius of us so we started looking on the net...He refuses broccoli, and greens...Broccoli was the first green I tried him on..I gave him fresh every day for 4 or 5 days along with other stuff ( carrots, green beans, corn)never touched it...Never tried the Primate biscuits, but tried rodent block,and dog food ( i know bad, but you hear so many different things) He ate fruit first then tried some nuts..Last couple of days I have tried broccoli again and some mustard greens...
He is laying under a full spectrum light as I type
This all started when I tried to take him off some of his formula feedings..Drooped from 2 a day to one..The siezures started...So I added the one feeding back....
I can't feed him formula for the rest of his life !! He needs to drink water and eat other stuff so he can go back to where he belongs..I am not clinging to him he is clinging to me !! lol
Thanks for the reply
Dianne

[rygel1hardt]

Hey Gal it sounds like you are trying your best with this guy so please dont think you have to be defensive. I say so what if he isnt weaned. Some squirrels take formula longer than others and I have never cut any of mine off. They all decided for themselves when they wanted to wean and none are still taking milk. I am more concerned about the seizures since you say he is still getting formula he should be fine nutritionally and so the seizures shouldnt be calcium or vitamin D deficiency caused. You also mentioned that he is possibly deaf which may also be directly related to his seizing. He may have suffered a head trauma before he came to you which could have caused both the seizures and deafness. If this squirrel is truely deaf he in my opinion is NOT releasable! My first suggestion is to keep him on the Esbilac for as long as he will take it and give him as much as he wants at least four times a day and gradually introduce new foods daily. Very few nuts at first but do start with sweet potato, avacado, mushroom, kale, bits of apple, zuccini, pumpkin with the seeds still on it, etc. When you withheld the formula he might have had a blood sugar problem which could also cause the seizures. I never withold formula and give it for as long as they want it. Good luck and please keep us posted. Now that we are involved just know that we all care about this little guy and will want to have frequent updates! Stacey

It was a puppy formula I got at the local feed store, some off brand I think...We could not find any esbilac within a 50 mile radius of us so we started looking on the net...He refuses broccoli, and greens...Broccoli was the first green I tried him on..I gave him fresh every day for 4 or 5 days along with other stuff ( carrots, green beans, corn)never touched it...Never tried the Primate biscuits, but tried rodent block,and dog food ( i know bad, but you hear so many different things) He ate fruit first then tried some nuts..Last couple of days I have tried broccoli again and some mustard greens...
He is laying under a full spectrum light as I type
This all started when I tried to take him off some of his formula feedings..Drooped from 2 a day to one..The siezures started...So I added the one feeding back....
I can't feed him formula for the rest of his life !! He needs to drink water and eat other stuff so he can go back to where he belongs..I am not clinging to him he is clinging to me !! lol
Thanks for the reply
Dianne

[Gabe]

I agree, probably not calcium deficiency, low blood sugar or head trauma is a good thought. Do you have a picture? Then we can see size of head, body mass, etc. Sometimes squirrels can have seizures from too little salt, isn't that weird? Yet we give them everything unsalted.

[ACDsandAussies4me]

I am sorry if I came across as defensive, that is not how I ment anything...I am just worried about this guy....We had some problems in the beginning because we were not well informed, then I found a rehabber to talk to and now she has disappeared on me...He hadn't had any seizures for weeks, wouldn't eat any veggies I tried to give him but was eating the dried fruits and nuts from the mix I bought from the squirrel store and was doing fine...The more I sit here and read the more I notice that is wrong with him...He has never been real active...I see that may be from a vit d defficency???? He had some natural daylight through a window but maybe not enough, I just stole the light from the lizzard and put on him...He is basking in it now...My mother found the cal-tabs but not the prime....What else besides the veggies can I give him to suppliment the vit d?? I don't think his probs have anything to do with low sugar, maybe to much sugar???
I am trying to search all possibilitys here...
I am trying to attach two pictures...The one in the cat carrier was from when he was about 7 weeks old and getting straightened out from the bad formula...The other picture is the best I can find of anything recent, this was last week..
Thanks again,
Dianne

[ACDsandAussies4me]

After I post stuff I think of more things !!! lol...Can they get to much calcium??? Cause if I keep him on the formula then I shouldn't suppliment calcium???
Whats your thoughts on the Vit D deficiency?? Could that cause the siezures?
Thanks,
Dianne

[susanw]

This may be a dumb question, but do you have a hanging water bottle in his cage?

[ACDsandAussies4me]

Yes I do have a hanging water bottle in his cage...Its been there for about three weeks now..I change the water every other day and when I do I hold it for him, he takes a drink then basically spits it out and rejects it..Thats not milk !!!! he says..lol

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

he sounds like a smart cookie..em I mean squirrel!

[Gabe]

After I post stuff I think of more things !!! lol...Can they get to much calcium??? Cause if I keep him on the formula then I shouldn't suppliment calcium???
Whats your thoughts on the Vit D deficiency?? Could that cause the siezures?
Thanks,
Dianne

Yes, they can get too much calcium, it is called hypercalcemia. With opossums, they get rear leg weakness. Not sure what the symptoms are in squirrels. What happens is they deposit all the excess calcium in their joints and have difficulty moving around. If he is getting formula regularly, don't worry about calcium additives.
Can you describe the seizure, does it happen when he is drinking formula? Or when he is playing? Does he suddenly just stop what he is doing and flop around? How often does he have them?

[rygel1hardt]

If he is still on formula then he shouldnt be vitamin D deficient!!! You are correct that he shouldnt have both a calcium supplement and formula as it isnt necessary. Also they dont get what they need from the sun through a window, windows block what they need.Why would you think he may be getting to much sugar? Stacey

After I post stuff I think of more things !!! lol...Can they get to much calcium??? Cause if I keep him on the formula then I shouldn't suppliment calcium???
Whats your thoughts on the Vit D deficiency?? Could that cause the siezures?
Thanks,
Dianne

[Gabe]

rygel1hardt, I think she's been feeding him a dry fruit mix, with a high sugar concentrate.
You say he's never been very active. What are you basing that on? Have you raised squirrels before? How is his hearing and vision? Is he average size for his age?

[ACDsandAussies4me]

His siezures....I know when he starts to have them because his eyes start twitching, he throws himself around...Sometimes he throws his head backwards and every so often they start of with him screaming....I guess I should also note that these don't happen often, but when he does have them its usually twice in one day and then maybe once the next day...I am trying to think how many times he has had these episodes since he came to us...He was fine for the first week and a half then they started, that was when we had him on the wrong puppy formula...But we got that straightened up and only went through four or five seizures then...He was okay for about 4 weeks then he had probably about 5 or 6 siezures...This is when the screaming started...He never screamed with those first ones...And now he has started again...He had one about three days ago...He had two yesterday, and today he has had two and they were within minutes of each other....the others were had at least a couple of hours between them..
This may be a stupid question, but at the same time there are never any stupid questions...But when they listen for things won't their ears move to track the sound or find it??? I know he can move his ears but when ever I get behind him and clap or snap my fingers he just keeps on doing what ever it is he is doing, no ear movement, no looking up to check out the weird sound, no reaction at all...I am no optomitrist but his sight seems okay..
As for his activity level...He only has enough balance to sit on hind legs only for just a few seconds...He can't climb without falling off....He walks on all fours without wobbling but he doesn't seem to have any balance for anything else...I seen posts talking about other squirrels playing, he doesn't, he eats and sleeps and thats about it...I have no experience with squirrels but I do have experience with hand raising birds and baby bunnies....He just doesn't seem to be developing like others on here, and he is 15 weeks old..He is growing and I will weight him when I get back, I have to take my son to his grandmothers...
By the way I did end up finding the Prime, not sure if I want to do that or increase his amounts of feedings again...What do you think??
Thanks for all the replys,
Dianne

[ACDsandAussies4me]

I just weighed him...11 weeks ago tomorrow he weighed 2.2 oz...He now weights in at 9.5 oz and he is not skinny by any means...How does this compare to other 16 week old squirrels??? I am just guessing at his age..He had his eyes open when he was found and you could just start seeing his top teeth...Am I about right on his age??? He will have been in my care for 11 weeks tomorrow ( Saturady).
I just want to appologise for the way I sound in my posts..When I re read them they sound so stiff and kinda mean natured and thats not me at all..I am just not that great with words and since y'all can't see my expresions you don't know when I am joking, I forget the lols...Like the comment about being an optomitrist(sp?) my reply sounded rude and I appologise cause it was not ment to be...So over look my short comings and help me figure out what is wrong with this guy...
Like I said earlier, I do not have experience with squirrels, its just a feeling I have that there just is something not quite right with him...I kinda of compare his developement to the puppies, kitties,bunnies, birds I have hand raised from bottles....Before any of these guys are weaned they are up more than twice a day playing, he gets up two times a day for about 15 minutes or so then back to bed, no playing, just eat a little fruit and nuts or if I have him feeding him he finishes his milk then curls up in my hand and straight back to sleep...I usually have to wake him to feed him...He does love to cuddle and get his scratchy scratchys, but no playing...
Now I am rambling, sorry...
Thanks again,
Dianne

[ACDsandAussies4me]

Whats their resperations and heart rate supossed to be???
Dianne

[island rehabber]

I haven't been able to get specific heart rate/respiration numbers for you but will try to look that up. Here is a question, and I know it sounds odd: does your squirrel have a more pushed-in type face than the other squirrels outside? (More like a pug-nose face vs. pointed?) Do his limbs look a little shorter or stubbier than the others? I can't tell by that one recent picture, but I am just curious about something.

[rygel1hardt]

Hey IR I bet you and I are thinking the same thing. From the one pic I saw I am thinking this is a down syndrome squirrel. I have only known of a few but his pic reminded me of them. They are usually very sweet and lovey. If this is the case then he wouldnt develope like other squirrels and may have many limitations and of course he would never be releaseable! If she would like I might be able to pass along her email address to someone who has had a down syndrome squirrel. Stacey

I haven't been able to get specific heart rate/respiration numbers for you but will try to look that up. Here is a question, and I know it sounds odd: does your squirrel have a more pushed-in type face than the other squirrels outside? (More like a pug-nose face vs. pointed?) Do his limbs look a little shorter or stubbier than the others? I can't tell by that one recent picture, but I am just curious about something.