Want help obtaining rehab license/permit in Virginia.

[DubShack]

No hun, you haven't killed yourself. If you'd have said "I all ready have a squirrel," then yes, you'd probably be in trouble. Honestly, I'd say its about an 80/20 bet they're going to look at that letter and throw it in the trash.

I'll post a more detailed response later because I'm at work right now, but I just seen you're obviously feeling bad about this and I thought I'd perk in real quick.

[sadiesmom]

I appreciate that. That you care enough to put in a few comforting words, that is. I really am kind of down right now. I wish I'd have waited to read responses on this board before I sent the letter.

I just... I really love Sadie. She's more than a pet. She always was. She's a member of my family. I'll do anything for her.

[island rehabber]

I appreciate that. That you care enough to put in a few comforting words, that is. I really am kind of down right now. I wish I'd have waited to read responses on this board before I sent the letter.

I just... I really love Sadie. She's more than a pet. She always was. She's a member of my family. I'll do anything for her.

Sadiesmom, I am in complete empathy with you because this is exactly how I became a rehabber....found Squirli, raised him (sort of, not the right way all the time), released him, then he came back to me with a broken leg! That's when I found out I wasn't supposed to have him, when no vet would treat him and I was frantic on New Year's Day in 2003....I finally reached the rehabber who would become my friend and mentor and she took him to her vet. I was told I could never see him again.....but I persisted and the vet gave him back, and talked me into becoming a rehabber. I'll never forget the sick feeling in my stomach when they told me I couldn't have my beloved little squirrel back...ever! So, I really do understand you. What made it easier for me is that New York's requirements for a rehab license are much less strict than yours: we don't have to really 'apprentice' with a rehabber, just pass a test and produce three recommendation letters. I wish you every bit of luck in the world at charming those DNR-type folks into letting you get a license via telephone or internet contact with rehabbers.

[sadiesmom]

Just hearing other peoples' stories is a big help when it comes to getting through this. I need to know that there are others out there like me. I need to know that even though it's technically against the law, there are people out there who support what I'm trying to do for the life of one squirrel, and eventually for the lives of others.

I know what I'm doing is right-- maybe not in the eyes of the government, but it's right in my heart.

[DubShack]

Ok, I'm home now.

The last thing I want to do is hurt your feelings or discourage you from doing this. I really want to do this too, but I'm kind of in a similar situation. I don't actually have a squirrel in my house, but I've got about five of them that are now scratching at my door morning noon and before night, probably because I'm giving them the good stuff and everyone else is throwing peanuts. Some of these guys have built nests that are way too high up and I don't think are structurally sound enough. We've had wind storms all week and these things sway like crazy, between that and the cats if we had any babies, we'd be looking at an awful lot of orphans right now. I've read tons on how to take care of them, and while I probably have an acceptable enough knowledge to accomplish the task, (definately more than anyone else I know around Spokane) I work full time and I'm renting. So I neither have the time, nor the space to actually do it.

So while I worry about these guys, I kind of have to take a breath and take a step back. It's kind of something you eventually have to learn, I mean while you love and care for these animals and no one here questions that, but eventually you have to take a step back and take care of you. It may sound heartless, but no squirrel is worth loosing you, and trust me, worrying too much is a killer. In the last year I've been diagnosed with three more debilitating diseases and have had to learn to live with them very quickly. And that's not counting the bipolar disorder and essential tremor (a mild form of parkinsons) that I was all ready dealing with. My point in bringing this up is not to say "hey, I got it harder than you," just that when faced with adversity sometimes you just don't see how far you have to go to overcome, and really what you ARE capable of. I mean crap, after the celiac disease diagnosis I came out of the hospital wondering just what the heck I COULD do in this world. Well, a heck of a lot it turns out.

I guess what I'm saying is, if your world isn't working for you, change your world. And understand two things: 1, that you are perfectly capable of doing so, and 2, the cost of success is effort and time.

If this helps, I'll make a little confession myself. I graduated from ITT Tech to get my degree, which got me the job that I have now. But when I went to school, I was at the top of my class in a very challenging program, mostly because for many years before this I had all ready learned these programs by downloading them over the internet and just pouring over free online tutorials. By the time I got to school I had such a massive knowledge of these programs they were teaching, I actually ended up consulting with instructors on the capabilities of these programs that they didn't even understand.

So I kind of know where your coming from. All though I admit my employers know about this and are more than happy to have someone on their staff they can turn to for just about anything, even if I don't know a thing about civil engineering. Just don't tell anyone else.

As for a possible solution to your situation with Sadie, I can really only think of one thing. You obviously have thought out how you are going to house Sadie where you currently reside. So you must have some capability of fashioning up some kind of halfway decent facility that you can "say" is for rehabing squirrels. If we can just find one from that state, one that is careing and compassionate and we can explain and they will understand your situation, then it would have to work something like this. My understanding from what these guys have said is that during your two year mentoring program, you are allowed to rehab squirrels. While Sadie technically can't be rehabbed, we COULD say that this rehabber that is going to become your bosom friend asked you to take care of Sadie because they didn't have room with their current work load.

That's about the only way I'm thinking that is going to work for you.

The only other thing I can think to say, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but obviously you are an exceptional person. And a fairly unique person. The laws in your state weren't made to prevent you from taking care of Sadie. They were made because you are exceptional, and there are a lot of people out there that would do more hurt than good. And I think you would agree that it would be far better that it be made as difficult as possible for these types of people to be given custody of a squirrel. Here in Washington, the number of animal cruelty cases is atrocious. And I'm not just talking about wild animals. With the meth problem over here, druggies have learned the easiest way to make money for their drugs is to breed "guard dogs," like pit bulls, rotweilers, bull dogs... It's sickening. So while yes, it really sucks that its this hard to get a license to become a rehabber, I think once we get to that point we'll be glad we've earned it, and glad the government is at least unwilling to give legitimacy to these horrible people.

So while I'm not saying "yeah, go break the law!" no one is gonna beat you over the head yelling "bad!" because obviously you've got a good heart, you've done this with good intentions, and at least had the guts to step up to the plate and do what others where unwilling or unable to do. And I hesitate to say what you've done is illegal anyway, if you've done it under the blessings of a local game warden then I don't see the problem. (I do if you're keeping her and moving her to the city, but thats symantics and we can deal with them later) Point being, you're not a bad person, we just need to work on making you legit. We just need a good plan to get you there.

And I obviously need to work on my post length.

[sadiesmom]

I look forward to hearing from you every day, DubShack, as well as anyone else who is willing to put in their two cents' worth.

The house I'm living in at the moment is large, but so is the family within it. My aunt and uncle had four kids of their own, and while two of them are grown and have families of their own, most of the time there are several grandkids staying here as well. That said, I'd still have plenty of room to keep Sadie. I have the attic-turned-bedroom all to myself, plus there's a full basement with four partitioned rooms. Sadie's wellbeing is my first and foremost concern at this point, and how I’d house her has been the least of my worries for a long time.

While on one hand I agree with you in that it is probably a very good thing that it’s hard to get a rehab license here in Virginia, on the other hand I can see how even that does more harm than good. People are going to try to do it anyway, you know? People like me. People with even less knowledge than myself. In this case, ignorance isn't bliss. It's dangerous.

I think it is ridiculous that there has to be a two year training period before a license can be obtained, when it would be so much more convenient to be able to mentor over the phone or internet, seeing as how few rehabilitators in this area we do have. It’s hard to find someone to train with! Personally, I think it would be perfectly fine to do some long-distance learning with someone else AS LONG AS the trainee is willing to subject themselves and their facility to frequent and random visits from qualified individuals who have the authority to terminate all activity if there is evidence of abuse or neglect on the caregiver’s part. I mean, I don’t see someone getting involved in rehabilitating wildlife with bad intentions, but lack of knowledge can do just as much harm.

I also can’t see someone breeding squirrels in place of dogs for drug money. Haha. Then again, you never know…

All of that aside, while I do eventually want my rehabilitation license when I am capable of dedicating myself wholly to the cause, right now all I want is to dedicate myself to Sadie. I can handle that much.

In all honesty, I see myself getting in over my head if I tried rigging up some cages to impress the VDGIF just so I can train and get my license. First off, wouldn’t the rehabber I train with expect me to take on some wildlife to care for? I don’t have time for that. I don’t have time to “rehabilitate” right now. I don’t have time to care for orphans. I don’t have time to care for the critically injured. (At least I’d know that if Sadie ever got hurt, and I were legally allowed to care for an unreleasable squirrel, I’d be able to take her to a veterinarian and be able to pick her up again afterwards.) Second off, wouldn’t I be put on some sort of active list that would give the public my contact information so that they could surrender needy wildlife to my services? I could never turn away a needy animal, and that could get me in a huge mess, considering a) my rigged up facility probably wouldn’t suffice, and b) I sincerely don’t have the time.

I don’t know. I don’t even know if I’m making any sense right now. I hope I’m making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. Who knows? Maybe I’ll be told there is a way to home an unreleasable without having to obtain a rehabilitation license that takes two years to earn. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.

But please, keep this thread active. If any of you have any other ideas or resources that might be of help to me, I’m begging for it. If any of you have been in this type of situation before, I’d love to hear about it. I’m starting to feel like I’m running out of options, only because my knowledge is limited as to whom I need to speak to about this. I know there’s a way around it. I just have to find it.

And DubShack, I'm not trying to intrude in your personal life, but I know a good lot on what you're going through with some of the things you have mentioned, and I honestly applaud you. You're obviously an extremely strong person with a huge heart. No wonder those squirrels love you.

[DubShack]

Again, I'm at work, but thank you for the kind words.

And I think yeah, you might be getting more worked up then you need to be. In the words of Dave Ramsey, breathe girl.

My suggestion was alluding to us taking the time to get to know a rehabber in your area, and when I mean in your area, I mean anyone in your state who is a caring person and has an email address. Once we're all buddy buddy and understand that for now you aren't in a position to rehab, just looking to legitimately take care of Sadie, then what we say to the government is the other thing, that she's having you take care of her because this other rehabber doesn't have the room. As for finding someone in your area, they gotta have some ways of getting people licensed in remote areas. I really don't see them having a problem with the email thing. This is the 21st century, online education has become almost a cornerstone of our society.

That said, I think we may be overanalyzing the problem. You said you originally took care of Sadie with the blessing of a game warden. That answers a few questions and raises more I think. It answers whether you can legally keep Sadie- Yes. Very simple. I'm assuming he has the authority to actually do this, but it at least answers the semi-non-knowledgable who come over and say "You have a squirrel, isn't that illegal?" You tell them it's illegal without permission, and you have permission from the game warden. As for getting vet care for her, that may or may not work the same way. I wouldn't so much go begging and pleading for help at the last minute when you desperately need it. I'd perhaps call around, and say "Hi, I'm new to the area and I have a squirrel that was legally placed under my care by a game warden who is a friend of the family, and I am wondering if you would be interested in serving as emergency vet for her if ever there should be a problem." Don't give them your name or anything. If they throw a big fuss about having to be a licensed rehabber, tell them you are sorry for wasting their time and hang up. If they say they don't have experience in wild animals, thank them and hang up. But I'd seriously call every vet in your city, and maybe even the outskirts until I got a yes. But key thing is here, don't exactly volunteer your name until you've walked into the door and met the people. (I'd also maybe call around and get recomendations on that particular vet before agreeing to meet with them, to make sure you're not getting some meth-head working out of his closet) And talk to the game warden first as well, because backup is always good. But these vets aren't going to go into a fit and trace your call and go after you. They ought to have better things to do. I mean really, if they start yelling in your ear let them talk to a dial tone. Obviously they're in the wrong field.

But thats another idea, and I could be crazy, but I dunno, there it is.

And as for the breeding thing, that is kind of funny but wouldn't surprise me. But no, they are harsh about animal cruelty because of all the cases involving the dogs. They have "harsh laws" about squirrels because of the Western Gray going extinct. They basically blanket the law over all breeds because to most people they all look the same. They just aren't very good at enforcing the law. After warning the local lumber companies about the problem, the lumberjacks specifically targeted trees with Western gray nests in them. Washington basically didn't do anything about it. But they left these rediculous policies in place, like mandatory euthanasia of eastern grays and making it difficult to rehab... It's just sad.

[muffinsquirrel]

If it's any consolation to you, I did a lot of rehabbing before I was legal! I started out by buying a flying squirrel as a pet.(They are legal in Texas.) Turned out the one I bought was an adult, and to describe her as 'not tame' would be a vast understatement! I got a lot of flyers that year, because there was a man trapping them and selling them as pets. When the new owners found out that they couldn't even touch their squirrels without being attacked, they didn't want them any more. I put an ad in our local on-line classifieds saying that I would take in unwanted or orphaned squirrels. I ended up with flyers, greys and foxers, and lots of them. I did this for 2 or 3 years and never had any trouble. When I finally did get questioned on it, it was by a licensed rehabber that saw my ad. (She sent me an email saying "Who are you and are you licensed?" and I sent her one back saying "Who are you and why do you want to know?") She invited me to work under their rehab group, and I've been here ever since. I still run my ad, too. So you see, where there's a will, there's a way - just keep looking. Find a rehabber somewhere that you can work under, and learn all you can. All you need is to be able to say "I work under so-and-so as a rehab trainee", and you should be home free. I would definately talk to the game warden that already knows you. He sounds like your best bet, and if there is a way you can get 'temporairly' approved he will be the one that will know.

Good luck to you from friendly folks and squirrels in Texas

muffinsquirrel and zoo - 13 greys, 1 foxer, one broken winged dove, assorted pets, both furred and feathered, and about 20 flying squirrels; some pets, some rescues, some in release. All of which is subject to change at the ring of a phone!

[sadiesmom]

First off, I'll have to apoligize for my absence for the past few days. One of my two beloved pet rats has passed away. I am extremely heartbroken and the wound inside me is still very fresh.

Please give me a few days to be able to gather myself together.

Thank you--each and every one--for keeping the advice coming. And thanks for caring.

-Brandi

[la dame à l'écureuil]

I'm so sorry to hear about your rat, Brandi. I hope the other one is okay. It's just awful when you lose an animal you've cared for.

[sadiesmom]

Again, I apologize for not keeping up with this thread for the past few days.

On a different note, I have not yet heard back from anyone I sent the letter out to. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm still unsure what my next step should be. I'm heavily considering calling up the VDGIF myself and talking to someone personally about how I could go about housing an unreleasable squirrel legally. I'm not going to get off their backs until I find a solution to this mess and know I won't have Sadie taken away from me.

I get to visit her next week, by the way. I'm planning on going home for Thanksgiving, and while I know she'll probably be a little leery of me for a while--as I've been gone for a few months--I know she'll warm right back up to me. She always does.

[sadiesmom]

Heres the email I recieved from VDGIF:



Please reference your request to keep a squirrel in captivity. There is no provision in the Code of Virginia or in Game Department Regulations that allows citizens to keep wildlife in captivity for personal enjoyment. Wildlife Rehabilitators are only permitted to keep injured or orphaned wildlife until they are healthy enough to be released into the wild. Animals that cannot be released must be euthanized. In some instances, animals that cannot be released may be offered to a museum, university, zoo, or other institution for educational purposes. These circumstances require written approval from the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. Wildlife rehabilitators have a Code of Ethics they must adhere to, and they agree to abide by these mandates when they sign their applications. The goal of wildlife rehabilitators is to return injured or orphaned native animals to their natural habitat, as quickly as possible, providing them with a reasonable chance to function and behave normally within its population and ecosystem.

Your request to keep an unreleasable squirrel must be denied. The only legal way to work with wildlife is to become a licensed caregiver or rehabilitator. We encourage you to become a caregiver, working under the supervision of a permitted rehabilitator.

Thank you.

Permits Section
Department of Game & Inland Fisheries"

[Somebody's Mother]

meet me in charlotte,nc and i will be the one with a rose in my lapel and we can switch pet carriers so no one notices. i will bring the little critter back into south carolina where he has rights!! j/k well sort of. i hate that stuff about it being euthanised because it can't be returned to the wild. that is shear ignorance. there is nothing inside my living room that can throw off the balance of the ecosystem.

[sadiesmom]

There's absolutely nothing I can do about it now. Nothing. Even if I hand her over to someone who is licensed, she'll be euthanized. Someone please give me a miracle answer.

[sadiesmom]

Okay, the last post was a bit psychotic, but I guess I just really got my hopes up that somehow I'd get permission to keep an unreleasable. And I know I shouldn't have. Deep down, I knew I'd be denied.

Am I really going to have to keep her under wraps for the rest of her life? That pretty much rules out ever renting a place when I do move out. I seriously even threw up the idea of moving to South Carolina to my boyfriend, who knows how desperate I am to keep my little girl. His reaction, however, was a quick "no".

I had no idea that Virginia euthanized its unreleasables. It's incredibly unfair. We don't euthanize people with afflictions such as lost limbs and etcetera. Isn't it basically the same? As long as the animal is spayed/neutered and vaccinated (to prevent disease and the possibility of illegal breeding, obviously), what does it matter if its life is spared and lives the rest of its days happily with someone who can care and provide for it? I don't mean to turn this into a rant, but this whole deal has totally just rubbed me the wrong way. To think that someone would rip Sadie from my care and take her life, all because I saved it...

[sadiesmom]

Besides, how could I have ever turned this away last February:

[sadiesmom]

Someone suggested that I consider writing the governor of Virginia for a pardon. Is this rational? How would I go about doing it?

[Gabe]

I think I would just stop drawing attention to myself. If you continue with the letter writing you are going to make someone suspicious.

[island rehabber]

I think I would just stop drawing attention to myself. If you continue with the letter writing you are going to make someone suspicious.

I agree with Gabe -- don't draw any more attention to yourself! There have been horrible accounts -- granted, with raccoons and not squirrels -- of people's homes being stormed by the DNR troopers and animals being terrorized, seized and killed. One woman with a rehab facility in the midwest had 65 of her healthy, pre-release babies seized and killed last year. Ssssshhhh!!!! But keep trying to find a rehabber you can apprentice under....it would be wonderful if you could get your license. We need you!

[Gabe]

I agree with Gabe -- don't draw any more attention to yourself! There have been horrible accounts -- granted, with raccoons and not squirrels -- of people's homes being stormed by the DNR troopers and animals being terrorized, seized and killed. One woman with a rehab facility in the midwest had 65 of her healthy, pre-release babies seized and killed last year. Ssssshhhh!!!! But keep trying to find a rehabber you can apprentice under....it would be wonderful if you could get your license. We need you!

I remember that story, they brought 3 or 4 vets with them, her husband called her at work and by the time she had made the drive home from work,
( took her an hour), it was too late.