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Thread: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

  1. #1
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    Default MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    The latest information on a comparison study of milk replacers used by wildlife rehabilitators, by Shirley Casey of ewildagain.org.

    http://www.ewildagain.org/Milk%20Rep...e_may_2010.htm
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Thanks IR for posting the link for formula comparison. I find it interesting that some rehabbers report positive gains with Fox Valley, yet others don't. In the article it said that some rehabbers were mixing Fox Valley with Esbilac. In my own opinion, that just seems like an unecessary and somewhat expensive for rehabbers who might be on a tight budget. Having used Fox Vally with my latest two girls, Brenna and Tessa, I reported on this board several times about how impressed I was with their growth on the FV. I even jokingly asked just what does Nick put in that stuff that makes them gain and grow so well. These babies were quite muscular too. I DID add heavy whipping cream to compensate for what the FV might be lacking in fat content. I find it a little odd that some people have great success with FV, yet others have probs with it. Personally, I will NEVER use a PetAg product again. Has anyone ever actually reported losing babies that have been on Fox Valley? Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the subject. I am sticking with FV.

    lizharrell1

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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Quote Originally Posted by lizharrell1
    Personally, I will NEVER use a PetAg product again. Has anyone ever actually reported losing babies that have been on Fox Valley? Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the subject. I am sticking with FV.
    I'm with you, Liz. For what it's worth, I switched to Fox Valley a year before this whole Esbilac fiasco and never regretted the change. If you feel your squirrels are more lean & mean than you'd like on the FV, they have a product called Ultra Boost for that.

    Me, I'm so pissed at Pet Ag for their complete abandonment of an entire sector of customers (wildlife rescuers) without so much as a 'fare-thee-well', I wouldn't care if they went under tomorrow. JUST my opinion.
    Island Rehabber
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    Michelangelo


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    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
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    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."

    '...and the greatest of these, is Love. '

  4. #4
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    I agree. And I thought about using the Ultra Boost, but my babies were gaining SO WELL with the added cream (I also added Dannon Natural Vanilla Yogurt as well) that I didn't see the need to purchase the Ultra Boost. Not to say I wouldn't try it in the future, but I just like to try and keep my life simple!!! I am NO nutritionist by ANY means, so I don't fully understand the ramifications of too much copper/not enough copper in the formula. Can anyone help me out with that a little?

    lizharrell1

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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Thoughts....

    What strikes me right away about this study is how much more consistent FV 32/40 is across different lot numbers. This is a major indicator of quality. Such large variances between lots is either sloppy manufacturing practices, or perhaps switching from one supplier to another. Some of the variances in fat/protein content appear large enough to cause digestive problems right there; opening a new can is almost like changing to a different formula. Nick uses mostly "food grade" ingredients. You can bet the farm that none of the other formula companies do that. It's unheard of in the pet food biz. That one factor means a huge difference in quality.

    The other thing I notice is the extremely high sodium content in all the formulas....Zoologic gets a little too close to toxic levels of sodium for my comfort, especially when you consider most babies are going to be rehydrated with Pedialyte. ANOTHER reason to never, never, ever mix Pedialyte with formula.

    Happy to see that FV has the highest calcium levels, but more importantly, notice that the calcium/phosphorus levels are balanced much more precisely in FV; this is the old "calcium/phosphorus ratio" and you will see that it is OFF in most of the other formulas. The low manganese level in all the Esbilac formulas is concerning, as this is vital for bone development.

    As for the low copper in FV, copper is a trace mineral, which means it is found in very tiny amounts in most foods. The requirements for these nutrients are of course small as well: for an adult squirrel, I'd estimate around .33 mg per day. From what I can tell, the level of copper in FV 32/40 hovers around the highest level at which one begins to see problems in rats long term. As soon as a baby begins to nibble real food (esp. blocks), this problem goes away. He'll get all the copper he needs from those foods, plus animals get quite a bit of copper from chewing on anything metal! So much so that copper requirements for lab rats are often adjusted based on the type of caging.

    I do hope Nick adjusts the copper level so we don't have to worry at all, but this does not look like a major issue to me.



    Just my 2 cents (or buck-fifty )
    Last edited by 4skwerlz; 05-04-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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    The animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations… ~Henry Beston, The Outermost House, 1928

  6. #6
    Suzie Guest

    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Hello again,

    Two Squirrel-Stations had Problems with the new Esbilac (Cover with the white puppy). The powder was bad, smelled rancid.
    The cans were exchanged and the new cans were ok. But this "white puppy-Powder" has a different consistency. It dissolves very bad. (The old powder with the Golden Retriever puppy was much better!) Now, I have seen on the PetAG website, that there is a new Esbilac for rodents. With goats milk

    http://www.petag.com/features_details.asp?ItemID=1758

    Can you tell me anything about this new powder? I can see, that crude and fat is the same like the Soja-Milkpowder Esbilac.

    We can not buy here in Germany the Fox Valley Nutrition.

    Is the goatsmilk-powder-Esbilac for rodents better, than the powder for puppys?
    Is here anybody who use this goats milk powder for the Squirrels-Babys?

    If it is just as good, we will try to convince the German manufacturer that he ordered the goat milk powder by Pet AG.

    Sorry for my bad english. I hope you understand me. (google translate is not a good help)

    Greetings from germany !

    Suzie

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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Suzie your English is fine and I understand what you're saying!
    I have never used the goat's milk Esbilac but I know people who have, and say they never have problems with it. Hopefully, some other members will come here today and have more specific information for you. I am truly sorry Fox Valley is not available to you in Germany because it's a great product. But wait a little longer and hopefully someone with experience will answer your question about the Goat's Milk Esbilac.
    Island Rehabber
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    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."

    '...and the greatest of these, is Love. '

  8. #8
    Suzie Guest

    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Thank you very much for reply !

    Ok, I will wait for other answers from the members here.



    "Heinrich" first day outside

    Have a nice day!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    I can ship Fox Valley formula to Germany. Shipping cost is between $15.00 and $20.00 USD.
    Henry's Healthy Pets
    Henry's Healthy Blocks, Fox Valley Formula, Fleecies Cage Gear and more

    The animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations… ~Henry Beston, The Outermost House, 1928

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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie
    Thank you very much for reply !

    Ok, I will wait for other answers from the members here.



    "Heinrich" first day outside

    Have a nice day!

    OMG, he is GORGEOUS!! Look at those awsome ears! Or is he just very surprised at outside?

  11. #11
    Suzie Guest

    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Hi,

    I think this is only the price for shipping. But how is the complet price? (Powder and shipping = all inclusive?)
    For example:
    We can buy here in Germany the Esbilac 28 oz for EUR 48,00 = USD 61.10

    How much cost 8 pounds Vox Valley incl. shipping.

    A other rehabber would also like to change, because he had Problems with Esbilac.
    But we can't order more than 8 pounds, because we don't have enough Babys. So I think it is not good to order more, the powder will be bad.
    We can share the 8 pounds ( 4 P for one Person)
    I think that Vox Valley is much cheaper than esbilac! Is it right?
    It is so difficult to convert.

    Vox Valley = pound
    Esbilac = oz

    Here in Germany = gramm

    28 oz = 793 gramm = 48,-- Euro
    1 Pound = 453 gramm
    2 pound = 906 gramm = 16,xx Euro

    puuuuuh


  12. #12
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie
    Hi,

    I think this is only the price for shipping. But how is the complet price? (Powder and shipping = all inclusive?)
    For example:
    We can buy here in Germany the Esbilac 28 oz for EUR 48,00 = USD 61.10

    How much cost 8 pounds Vox Valley incl. shipping.

    A other rehabber would also like to change, because he had Problems with Esbilac.
    But we can't order more than 8 pounds, because we don't have enough Babys. So I think it is not good to order more, the powder will be bad.
    We can share the 8 pounds ( 4 P for one Person)
    I think that Vox Valley is much cheaper than esbilac! Is it right?
    It is so difficult to convert.

    Vox Valley = pound
    Esbilac = oz

    Here in Germany = gramm

    28 oz = 793 gramm = 48,-- Euro
    1 Pound = 453 gramm
    2 pound = 906 gramm = 16,xx Euro

    puuuuuh

    Send me your Name and complete Address in a private message and I will calculate the total cost (including shipping) for 8 pounds of Fox Valley.

    Yes, Fox Valley is cheaper than Esbilac!
    Henry's Healthy Pets
    Henry's Healthy Blocks, Fox Valley Formula, Fleecies Cage Gear and more

    The animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations… ~Henry Beston, The Outermost House, 1928

  13. #13
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Great info IR

    And thanks to Suzie for the pic of beautiful Heinrich
    Tribute to my dear Wheezer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfmpVgdwCi8
    New favorites squirrel video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu22KiUQFmY

  14. #14
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Heinrich is a beautiful fellow.

    It is ONLY Fox Valley for me.

    PegAg can go sit and spin for all I care. Bad People.

  15. #15
    Suzie Guest

    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    @ critter mom

    Heinrich was very carefully, because it was a new situation.

    For safety, he use the rope upstairs








    @ wheezer

    you wellcome

  16. #16
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    I am in LOVE with Heinrich!
    Island Rehabber
    NY State Licensed
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    "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."

    '...and the greatest of these, is Love. '

  17. #17
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Wow! What a beautiful squirrel! Such rich colors and those ears..omg!

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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Such a beautiful squirrel!!!

  19. #19
    Suzie Guest

    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    Hello again,

    The Vox Valley Powder is very good ! I am happy! I 'm fed 6 Squirrels with this powder. They are "topfit" and two of they are now in freedom.
    Thank you very much Leigh!

    Here in germany was many Cans of Esbilac bad. A other Rehabber has the powder analyzed in the laboratory. Not enough fat.... and other things are not ok. (I forgot which other.)

    Für diejenigen die Deutsch verstehen:

    Ich bin Leigh sehr dankbar für ihre Hilfe. Das Vox Valley Pulver ist wirklich sehr gut. Hier in Deutschland mussten mehrere Dosen Esbilac aus unterschiedlichen Chargen zurückgesendet werden, da das Pulver schlecht war. Eine Dose roch sogar nach Dispersionsfarbe. Die Konsistenz ist zudem sehr schlecht geworden, das Pulver klumpt, es löst sich nur sehr schlecht auf. Auch ist mir und anderen Stationen aufgefallen , dass das Esbilac Pulver jedesmal eine andere Farbe hatte.

    Eine andere Station hat das Esbilac hier in Deutschland in einem Labor analysieren lassen. Verschiedene Werte, vor allen Dingen der Fettgehalt, stimmten nicht mit den Angaben des Herstellers PetAG überein.

    Nun werde ich auf jeden Fall bei Vox Valley bleiben, denn ich habe damit nun 6 Eichhörnchen aufgezogen, ihnen geht es super gut, sie sind putzmunter und topfit, zwei bereits ausgewildert, also in Freiheit.

    Die amerikanischen Eichhörnchen Freunde hier im Forum, haben mit ihrer Information den Eichhörnchen-Babys in Deutschland sehr geholfen!

    Liebe Grüße

    Suzie

  20. #20
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    Default Re: MAY 2010 UPDATE: Milk Replacers Study

    I am so glad you were able to get and use it.

    How much will you charge to ship Heinrich to me? He is wonderful!

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