THE ESBILAC ISSUE

[island rehabber]

There should always be healthy competition between manufacturers, because it keeps everyone on their best behavior and best quality control practices. Thank goodness we have two good options for feeding our baby critters!

[exoticanimalrescue]

I have heard years back of many using it with success? We have a 4 week oldish baby and am thinking of the FV as we just found him trapped... My daughter has a huge fox squirrel that she raised from a hairless baby that fell 40 feet out of a tree. She will be 2 in August... I think she used Esbilac. I'm just curious about almond milk? We are vegetarians and curious if a little will hurt them.
We are on an island and thats all we had so am giving the little guy that tonight and going to order tomorrow..or to petstore.. Thanks Kim

[exoticanimalrescue]

She said they had to add alot to KMR. She used Esbilac on her squirrel she has now. Is NC andSC a legal state if you've dropped your license?thanks

[island rehabber]

Neither NC nor SC are legal states without a license...BE CAREFUL.

I would order the Fox Valley as soon as possible. Nick is wonderful to work with -- he's the owner but he answers the phone 90% of the time. He will rush the order to you, if necessary.
If you want to try the Esbilac, be very careful to strictly follow the Shirley Casey/Chris Clark instructions about using the "new" formula....

I have the same problem as you do -- I live on an island, even though I'm 15 miles from NY City! We have no Petco, no Walmart, and no veterinary clinic of any kind. Everything closes at 8:30pm. It's a challenge .

[exoticanimalrescue]

When did SC change? I rehabbed years back under a permit in another state but used to anyone could have a squirrelin SC...when we went to my Moms I was shocked at how many had them and how many didn'tknow about mbd I would love a copy of the law and will call them Monday as I gave my daughter the wrong info if it's changed Read this.. http://www.wfjlaw.net/nutkin-squirre...y-pennsylvania

[squirrel2010]

I joined this forum because I have been looking all over the internet for DAYS to find out what I SHOULD feed my baby squirrel. I found him Friday, and I called a vet that said, and strongly supported when I suggest Esbilac (reading google results), to feed him KMR Liquid, so i have been. The squirrel is 1 to 2 weeks old, I looked up squirrel charts. When i got him he was completely pink and tiny with whiskers, now he has dark shadow all down his head and back. Anyway, I initially fed him Pedialyte, heated, and gradually mixed in the KMR. Now, 6 days later, I am still feeding him KMR out of the can, mixing in a tiny bit of Pedialyte, and whipped cream for fat. He takes it and drink, I get him to pee and poop, and he goes right back to sleep. His stool isn't loose, its golden yellow, some brown, and is soft, i cant explain it really, but i do not think its diarreah. My question is, WILL HE DIE IF I KEEP FEEDING HIM KMR?? When I look at all the google results, its like a civil war between KMR and Esbilac, each side has its reasons of why the other is bad, or why KMR or Esbilac is poison, blah blah blah. I'm not interesting in ordering FOX Valley crap. I just need an honest answer, if I can raise him successfully on KMR, i fear switching to esbilac, even gradually, will kill him. To me, hes doing fine on KMR and passes all the dehydration test I can find to do. I dont care to know all the differences on why esbilac is better than KMR, and why fox valley is better than esbilac, I just would ver, very much appreciate if you could tell me if I am ok with the KMR. And if you would mind emailing me at tango1865@yahoo.com so I can get you advice quicker because that email i often check. Thank you

[island rehabber]

You have been sent my response. I would not feed another baby squirrel Esbilac, ever, and I would CERTAINLY not feed KMR.

[Runestonez]

I am almost afraid to ask...
Here in Ontario the rehabbers feed pretty much everything Esbilac.
They alright on Esbilac until around the time they started teething their bottom teeth. Then they all started to develop soft stools and finally diarrhea. I was on the phone to the rehabbers and our vet every other day for a week. The only thing they could advise me was to drop back to pedialyte and then slowly work my way back up to the full strength formula.
That made no sense to me since I had already tried adjusting the formula, added rice pablum powder, neomycin sulphate, etc...
I finally out of frustration decided to treat the bloating and gas...since that is something I recognize and can treat easily.
I started giving them .25cc Ovol before each meal and in about 4 feedings their stools had returned to normal.
I removed the Ovol and their stools started to soften after about 2 feedings...so I returned to Ovol and again back to normal.
I have to call the vet and check to see what I can do about this.
(I am NOT a rehabber...there are none in this area willing to take our little guys and the one place that will...the Humane Society...the Ministry of Natural Resources advised me that they will euthanize them because they are too much work at this age!)
So I am being very careful to try to follow the recommendations given to me so my babies aren't taken away!
But how long can I dose with Ovol safely?
I know with rabbits it isn't an issue...but what about squirrels?
I am going to try to scale back the Ovol to the lowest possible effective dose...they are approx. 29 days old today...<worried>

Danielle

[gs1]

runestone.... one word ...fox valley ...but we've no idea how long it will take to get here...

give them a call tomorrow ...

maybe we can find you some earlier .....

all the best....

[europe]

Just wanted to put in a word about a succesful experience with red squirrels. We raised 3 from about 2 weeks old and will release them in a couple more weeks. We live in Europe and no-one had ever heard of Esbilac so finally after rehydrating solution and one unsuccesful formula for puppies settled on the puppy milk made by Royal Canine. Since then the squirrels have thrived. They are alert, healthy, shiny coats (especially since I started adding whipping cream and full cream yoghourt) and extremely active. It was easy to introduce fruit and veg, as well as some rodents pellets, and especially love the pine cones and bark, drinking water well as soon as we started to wean them. Will be very sad to see them go but hope to see them around in the garden.

Extremely resilient little things too as we had no choice but to take them on holiday with us in the car. ( I do not recommend this unless they are still very small and not yet moving about, one also has to be extremely organized and have a very patient husband! ) We set ourselves up on the beach with a tent, warming bottles and devised a way of heating up their milk which worked very well. There was really no-one I could leave them with and so were able to continue their 3 and 4 hour feeds without disrupting our holiday.
We arrived back home just as they started exploring their environment and made them a bigger cage which they love.

What a great experience and would be happy to take on any orphans in the future. We have no official rehabbers here. Will try and post some pics later

[Rhapsody]

I have always been told NEVER to feed kitten formula (or milk) to a baby squirrel... these two liquids are said to be a big no no as they can make a squirrel very ill and/or even kill them..... thats all I know on the subject of KMR. Now as far a Esbilac goes, I personally have never had any problems with feeding it to my squirrels. I generally only have one squirrel at a time and mix each feeding as needed (the powder is never premixed).

[Rhapsody]

What Fox Valley formula should I use as she grows into adulthood?

You need to purchase FV 20/50 for Squirrels that are 4 weeks and older..... http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com/pr...cts.asp?PLID=1
... is your Squirrel still drinking formula? - I ask as most Squirrels will wean themselves around 3 to 4 months old.

You can use Squirrel Blocks / Rodents Blocks when there is NO More Formula
HHB @ http://www.henryspets.com/
HT #2018 @ http://www.thecraftyrat.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=VP

[Rhapsody]

I have always been told NEVER to feed kitten formula (or milk) to a baby squirrel...
these two liquids are said to be a big no no as they can make a squirrel very ill and/or even kill them.....
thats all I know on the subject of KMR.
Now as far a Esbilac goes, I personally have never had any problems with feeding it to my squirrels.
I generally only have one squirrel at a time and mix each feeding as needed (the powder is never premixed).
dated Nov 2010

I would like to go on RECORD as STATING.......
I NO LONGER USE or RECOMMENDED THE USE of ESBILAC for SQUIRRELS!!

Since I made the post above I lost a sweet 6 week old female squirrel
"Sandy" to the exact problem Esbilac was having with their New Formula
Mixture..... and have now changed over to FOX VALLEY.

I NEVER want to watch another baby die to such a DEATH.....

__________________________


Background - Unexplained problems emerge during 2009
http://www.ewildagain.com/Nutrition/...%20Changes.htm
Young animals that eat an inadequately dissolved formula are consuming less
nutrition and can develop diarrhea and grow more slowly. The inadequately
dissolved and undigested milk products in an animal’s GI tract are a great
place for bacteria to grow – and infections to develop.

___

[virgo062]

noted.....

[rygel1hardt]

With Esbilac loose bowels is not always the problem. I just got one last week that had been fed Esbilac and she hadnt pooped for the finders even once the whole five days they had her. She was so impacted with stool that her belly appeared bruised. It was another two days before I got her going well and was able to get all the impacted stool from her digestive tract. She is now fine on Fox valley 32/40 and eating well. She is gaining weight quickly and pees and poops normal pellets at every meal. I have noticed several new posters on this board and many have seemingly had constipated babies. I think this may be a new issue with pet ag products. If you are having success with it more power to you but I will NEVER use any of their products again. Stacey

[Nancy in New York]

With Esbilac loose bowels is not always the problem. I just got one last week that had been fed Esbilac and she hadnt pooped for the finders even once the whole five days they had her. She was so impacted with stool that her belly appeared bruised. It was another two days before I got her going well and was able to get all the impacted stool from her digestive tract. She is now fine on Fox valley 32/40 and eating well. She is gaining weight quickly and pees and poops normal pellets at every meal. I have noticed several new posters on this board and many have seemingly had constipated babies. I think this may be a new issue with pet ag products. If you are having success with it more power to you but I will NEVER use any of their products again. Stacey

Sounds very similar to what I had last year. I was given a baby that was fed Esbilac and he came to me bloated and impacted. I never posted the photos, but it seems this is the right time.
I wasn't 100% sure at the time that this was from the Esbilac, but now I am. I transitioned him to FV and he did beautifully.
When I removed the "impacted stuff" it was like concrete, and had the same color...whitish/grey. He would get impacted as soon as I removed what was already there, and I would start again, until it was out of his system.
And the bloat was terrible as you can imagine.....

The day I got him.


This was about a half hour after getting all of that crap out of his system.
I would start the procedure again, and then again until it all finally came out.


This is what came out the first time....poor baby!
It was like cement.

[island rehabber]

This truly does open up a whole new can of worms regarding the use of Esbilac for squirrels. I say it's just one big, unequivocal NO NO...DO NOT USE IT.

(note to large wildlife "centers" that get BIG discounts from Pet Ag for using Esbilac: you're killing wildlife. How much is THAT worth to you? )

[HHRP]

When my Fox Valley shipment arrives how do I go about switching over from Esbilac?

[gs1]

susan ...it's always better to do a separate thread for any questions....



i'm not a rehabber, i can't answer for you ... so do a separate thread and you'll be answered there....(the short unnofficial answer is you mix both formulas as normal and then give 3 parts of old and 1 part of new.. then 2:2
then 1 old : 3 new etc....

not mixing them together in the same syringe... just drawing up the amounts you need....




you can use...different forums...the baby area or nutrition but if it's semi-urgent or you're not sure then use the non-life threatning one...threads can always be moved and better safe than sorrry....

[Rescue04]

i have used esbilac in the past with no really bad experiences.