Multi-Milk Troubles!

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I have been adding LA-200 (made by fox valley ) to their formula. It is a probiotic. I LOVE that product made by fox valley, it is the only probiotic I have found that works well with bunnies. The rest don't seem to do anything for them.

IR, I have no idea how you can mix it 2:1 and still have squirrels that are digesting. Just look up Zippy's thread and you will see all the issues I had with her on the fox valley. She was the worst with it, but all the other squirrels I had would be digesting OK at 3:1 then when I switched to 2:1, they stopped peeing and pooping and their bellies got REALLY big and they wouldn't eat. They didn't completely stop peeing, but it was enough to scare the living daylights out of me.

[Nancy in New York]

Have you also tried the Acidophilus Forte along with the l-glucamine? I have a large bottle here that I can ship to you...

I also have 3 CANS of the GME from the spring...still good, never opened if you would like to try that. I know your feeling on the GME, but this is canned and it may be different from what you had been using...

[4skwerlz]

It looks like multi-milk is the best for amino acids, though, perhaps that is why bunnies thrive on it . If they are weakened, I have found that adding Prozyme really helps too, perhaps it fills in the gaps that are missing in the formula?

We won't drag you into the formula war, don't worry. It really isn't a war anyways, actually we all may soon be in agreement that FV is the best thing available at the moment.

Thanks, SR&BT! I know it's not really a war....just reminding folks that I don't have any skin in the game, so to speak.

Some of this is way above my pay grade, but based on my limited reading about buns, it may likely be the fatty acids that make a difference with buns (and who knows...maybe squirrels too?). Remember that article about adding caprylic acid to formula, which greatly reduced baby bun mortality. I'm gonna add those to the chart today and see what we see.

Nutrient analysis aside, I do think it's puzzling that people report such different results with the same formulas. Could it be simply an issue of "bad batches"? Could there be a sanitation issue? I mean, I know everyone follows good practices of cleanliness, but could a bad bug have started to grow under the lip of a syringe, or be lingering in the kitchen sink?

It must be terrifying to have a product you relied upon suddenly start killing your babies.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

It must be terrifying to have a product you relied upon suddenly start killing your babies.

It sure is! I had 100% confidence in that multi-milk and boom, diarrhea and the bunny was gone. I don't think I will ever completely trust formula again. You just never know what you will get when you open the next can.

I went up to the wildlife center and got fluids, albon, and FV formula today. I NEVER thought I would use that stuff again. I am shocked. Nick must be loving this PetAG disaster. I just feel bad for all the PetAG babies and Chris from squirrelsandmore. I wish I had stockpiled more formula in the spring!

[PBluejay2]

I posted this elsewhere but am repeating here:

I just today put in an order for eight pounds of Fox Valley three week and under and another twenty-pound bucket of 20/50. I have 4-5 pounds of GME in the freezer (less than a month old) and a brand new 4-pound bucket of Multi-Milk (two tablespoons missing) that I'll let go cheap. Until I hear that PetAg has "fessed up" to changing something in its products (be it even a supplier of one or more ingredients) and recognizes a real problem, I think I'm done with that company.

[4skwerlz]

Anyone have a nutrient analysis for Fox Valley?

[PBluejay2]

Anyone have a nutrient analysis for Fox Valley?

I suppose Nick does if you can get him to give it up. I don't mean to confuse issues, but a couple exist here that I'd really like to see resolved. If we're talking simply making up a formula, then I hope FV will help out (even though it might not be to its benefit) and we can get comparison data.

The second issue for me is WTF went wrong with PetAG?! People have used it for years. First Esbilac, then Multi-Milk (and I had the same issues with GME). Again, I'm not buying a simple processing change in how they dry the milk protein. Also, a nutrient analysis won't help much IMO because the company claims that the ingredients haven't changed, just the processing. I'm willing to wager something else has changed, something that is common to all varieties of their products--perhaps some "non-nutritional" additive such as a preservative, the source and quality of one of its "nutritional" components--something that won't show up on the label or any data sheet.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I hope it is OK to copy this over. It was posted on the Wildlife forum by a good rehabber. Same rehabber posted about terrible troubles with KMR. I am not waiting around to see if my guys gain on the new can of multi-milk, I got a whole bunch of fox valley and I am switching them over now. I think the lower levels of both protein and fat than it says on the can is the cause of the lack of weight gain and growth. Not sure what the high levels of copper will do? Here is the post:

Petag's Esbilac puppy milk contains heavy metal copper
Independent lab tests of Petag's Esbilac puppy milk have revealed it contains twice the maximum allowed of heavy metal copper as per government standards. Results also revealed that the contents are 17.6% fiber while the label states it has "0% crude fiber." A report was filed against Petag with the U.S. Food & Drug Administration on 9/11/2009.
9/10/2009 Animal Advocates sent a sterile sample of Esbilac straight from the Petag factory to an independent lab in California. September 24 they received the results which showed the contaminant=2 0heavy metal copper and large amounts of fiber. These results were forwarded to the FDA.

The significant lab results are as follows:

Protein 24.8%
Fat 31.5%
Fiber 17.6%
Heavy metal copper 2x Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL)

Petag's label states a "guaranteed analysis" as follows:

Crude Protein min 33.0%
Crude Fat min 40.0%
Crude Fiber max 0.0%

The actual protein and fat in Esbilac is less than the minimum guaranteed by the Petag label. The fiber is far greater than the maximum guaranteed. The lab has stated that even though the product contains 17.6% fiber, there is no fiber source listed in any of the ingredients on the label.

The FDA regulates pet foods and treats. The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) requires that pet foods, like human foods, be safe to eat, produced under sanitary conditions, contain no harmful substances, and be truthfully labeled.
The Melamine test is not finished. I will post the results when I get them.

[4skwerlz]

OMG! Thanks for finding this, SR&BT! This makes me furious.

So I guess the recommendation of TSB is going to officially change now? To FV?

One caveat: We should probably verify that this info is correct and not a rumor and not coming from a competitor?

[island rehabber]

I"m cross-posting from another rehab list about problems with KMR, in case any of our members are feeding kittens or baby raccoons:

The below was posted 9/11 about KMR and kittens. Someone here stated they had some bad KMR that smelled burned. Maybe it's the same batch?
"This is from a Rescue and Volunteer Coordinator from DuPage County Animal Care and Control:
“We just found out (the hard way) that a good amount of KMR has apparently been exposed to too hot of temperatures and has gone bad. The formula does not expire until 2011 but is not safe to feed to kittens. The company is not planning on a recall as far as I know and the only way to tell which formula has gone bad is by smelling it. It has a very distinctive “chemically” smell. The company will replace any bad cans with a new one if you encounter this. Please let any other organizations, foster homes, etc… that may be bottle feeding kittens know about this. We have had four kittens die from the formula and don’t want to see the number increase!”
Mary Cummins
www.AnimalAdvocates.us

[PBluejay2]

If this is all true, isn't there a lawsuit somewhere? I'm sick to death of this s*** and the "maximize profits"/consumer be damned mentality of corporate America.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I'm with you PBlueJay, I am so sick of this! As you know, I was the biggest supporter of PetAG there could ever be. Now, I don't think I will ever trust their products again. There is really no alternative for me though. I am so upset.

There have been more posts on the other forum that salmonella was found in both the powder esbilac and babies sent in for necropsies. Something else too, but I don't remember.

[island rehabber]

That salmonella link certainly points toward CHINA again......

[4skwerlz]

There have been more posts on the other forum that salmonella was found in both the powder esbilac and babies sent in for necropsies. Something else too, but I don't remember.

Bingo. Back to my initial post in this thread:

Earlier this summer there was an FDA recall of products from a major producer of commercial milk products, Plainview Milk Products Cooperative. The problem was Salmonella contamination.

http://www.qualityassurancemag.com/n...ws.asp?ID=3198

Since they are a big provider of these products to many food companies, the list of affected products was long. So I'm thinking that some of the makers of pet formulas used the contaminated milk products and chose not to do any kind of recall. I mean, nothing else makes sense in view of the widespread problems you guys are having with formula this summer.

Finding Salmonella in those babies is a "smoking gun" IMO.

And who knows what other crap is in these formulas. Mineral supplements, for example, can be a major source of heavy metal contamination depending on the SOURCE. And if they use fish liver oil as a source of Vit D and A, those can be very contaminated. Do makers of animal formulas use USP supplements? I seriously doubt it. Like I said, a lot of these highly refined dairy products are made by the mega-ton in China, and I don't trust them.

I personally would like to see a Country of Origin for every ingredient, and also the sources for all the mineral and vitamin supplements. But that's just me.

[PBluejay2]

I would think that if salmonella poison were a factor, enough puppies (what the product is made for) would have been affected to cause a stir.