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Thread: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

  1. #21
    PBluejay2 Guest

    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    Quote Originally Posted by lizharrell1
    Just a thought......is there a possibility that it ISN'T the formula, but maybe the water used to mix it? I don't know what everyone uses to mix their formula (I use tap water), but maybe for some reason, water from certain areas has a high number of bacteria in it? Bacteria would certainly cause runny poops. Still, I will take my can back to vets office in A.M. and exchange it....just to be safe!!!tinfoil
    This is my concern that I posted earlier. Is there some good evidence that it's the formula? How many people have used these lot numbers and filed complaints somewhere? Sometimes things can snowball.What exactly were the symptoms again--"sticky" poop? Did X number of people report the exact same symptoms independently/without influence from each other and in different places? Or did perhaps one person have issues with babies, determined (righlty or wrongly) it was the formula, and others who had issues with babies jumped on the bandwagon? Have people used lot numbers other than those two and chimed in that their babies are doing okay? How many people SPECIFIED those two lot numbers and not just Esbilac?

    Another concern is that, if the problem is legitimate, and as the company reportedly said there's been no change in the formula, only the way it's processed, I would imagine ANY powdered Esbilac purchased that was produced after those lot numbers would have the same problems with it.

    This is all very frustrating to me. Every time I try to find "the best" formula to use, I get equally adamant arguments on all sides. Anne, why not Esbilac? What problems? SR&BT I thought was going to call the ASPCA on me for using Fox Valley (by the way, clean out your mailbox SR&BT). I've all but switched from FV to Esbilac for the littlest ones, and now I'm wondering if I did the right thiing---aaarrrrrggghhh!

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I switched to Fox Valley last year. I have had zero problems with it.
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  3. #23
    PBluejay2 Guest

    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber
    I switched to Fox Valley last year. I have had zero problems with it.

    Watch out, IR. SR&BT will hunt you down!

    Seriously, I have no allegiance to either product. I just want what's best for my babies. I was using FV earlier this summer for everybody, but I had sooo many issues. Can I definitely say the issues were the result of the formula? No. Still, I am almost (emphasis on almost) persuaded that Esbilac is better for pinkies, but to be honest I have only one that I've raised since 12 grams that has had Esbilac exclusively. But I do call him "Little Mr. Perfect"--gained every day since I got him (now 44 grams), no poop issues, eats like a miniature Grizzly Bear--chubby little guy!. My FV babies all lost their baby "chubs" and grew slowly. Maybe he's just an "easy baby," and the rest weren't/aren't. I have no scientific evidence to prove one way or the other, and I really don't want to "experiment," any more than I've had to already,
    with babies in the future (take two sibling pinkies, feed one only Esbilac, the other FV, and see how it goes. But even doing that there would be a plethora of other factors to consider).

    Basically, I just don't know whether or not to believe this "scare" is legit. I know Esbilac changed its fat source a while back wiothout informing anyone (we lost bats because of it), but I've heard tales about omitted nutrients in FV). I guess until someone comes up with a milk replacer for squirrels that causes their poop to be mucousy and greenish brown/black like Momma's milk, and keeps them plump and juicy like Momma's milk, I'll just keep hoping.

  4. #24
    PBluejay2 Guest

    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber
    I switched to Fox Valley last year. I have had zero problems with it.

    Watch out, IR. SR&BT will hunt you down!

    Seriously, I have no allegiance to either product. I just want what's best for my babies. I was using FV earlier this summer for everybody, but I had sooo many issues. Can I definitely say the issues were the result of the formula? No. Still, I am almost (emphasis on almost) persuaded that Esbilac is better for pinkies, but to be honest I have only one that I've raised since 12 grams that has had Esbilac exclusively. But I do call him "Little Mr. Perfect"--gained every day since I got him (now 44 grams), no poop issues, eats like a miniature Grizzly Bear--chubby little guy!. My FV babies all lost their baby "chubs" and grew slowly. Maybe he's just an "easy baby," and the rest weren't/aren't. I have no scientific evidence to prove one way or the other, and I really don't want to "experiment," any more than I've had to already,
    with babies in the future (take two sibling pinkies, feed one only Esbilac, the other FV, and see how it goes. But even doing that there would be a plethora of other factors to consider).

    Basically, I just don't know whether or not to believe this "scare" is legit. I know Esbilac changed its fat source a while back wiothout informing anyone (we lost bats because of it), but I've heard tales about omitted nutrients in FV). I guess until someone comes up with a milk replacer for squirrels that causes their poop to be mucousy and greenish brown/black like Momma's milk, and keeps them plump and juicy like Momma's milk, I'll just keep hoping.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I cleared my mailbox, sorry PBluejay.

    IR already knows how I feel about Fox Valley . How she uses it with no issues is beyond me. I used that junk for 3 years and had the same problems you had PBluejay and then after switching to Esbilac, no issues. Well, actually I switched to Zoologic 33/40 which is great, but gives them slimy poop unless you add mixed cereal baby food to it (works great for bunnies with nothing added though). After 3 years of constant issues and no issues after switching, I am SURE that Fox Valley is not the milk for my creatures and pretty sure it causes issues in all babies.

    There were only a couple rehabbers reporting issues, so I wouldn't make too big a deal about it. I am still using it and ordered a new can. I hope I don't have issues, but I am not too worried.
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    Since my new cans of liquid (lol with puppies its CANS) (crazy expensive when you use so much) both my Puppies and my Squirrels have light brown gooey slimy mucous like poop that when I wipe it is like sticky slime.

    Puppies have slimy glossy piles of light brown.

    Nutters Babies poopies were formed brown-green loggers well they were nursing Nutter.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I ordered more Esbilac last night and Chris called me this morning to warn me that several people have called complaining about diarrhea with the formula. She called PetAg and they are processing differently and it has made the formula more concentrated, which they believe is causing the issues. They aren't sure how to mix the formula to the right concentration though. So, the over concentration would explain the diarrhea, now just how to fix it? If you dillute it too much they won't gain weight, but if you don't dillute enough then they will get the diarrhea. Chris is recommending the Goats milk Esbilac and said there has been no reported issues with that. She isn't even sending out the Zoologic 33/40 because it was off color . She is sending me a small can of the GME and one of the regular Esbilac. I hope the regular is fine because I hate switching. As PBluejay knows, I am super fussy about what formula I use . I hope they get the Zoologic problems sorted out before spring because that is the ONLY thing I use for bunnies, I won't switch!
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I hope you guys get this figured out.....Pet Ag should be ashamed of themselves and give every single customer a $100 credit toward replacement product -- once they figure out what the hell they did to f*ck it up in the first place.
    I follow a squirrels-only rehabber List and also the WLREHAB/ LSTSRV ...this Esbilac problem is churning up on both boards even as we speak -- a LOT of people are having problems.
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  9. #29
    PBluejay2 Guest

    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    Goddammit

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    UPDATE: Irene Ruth posted this on the WLREHAB list with permission to cross-post. She heard from Chris Clark, who spoke with Pet Ag:

    I just got this post from Chris at Squirrels and more about formulas...

    Hi Irene, I talked to Debbie Ward today and on Friday
    they found out exactly what happened with the formula. The only change
    (which is what we knew already) Is that they changed the way the formula is
    processed into a powder form. There are no new ingredients, but it is more
    concentrated than before. The problem is at this time they do not know the
    ratio at what the formula should be diluted yet. Feel free to pass this on
    to any of the listservs discussing this issue. In the meantime I am asking
    people to use Powdered GME* until we can figure this out. If they do stay
    with the Esbilac than they do need to start diluted more. As soon as we know
    the ration for squirrels it will be posted on my website and I'll probably
    send out a bulk email about this also. Thanks again, Chris

    * Powdered GME is Goat's Milk Esbilac

    I hope this helps all our Esbilac people! Now I'm wondering if this is even why rippie had such terrible problems with diarrhea, etc., with her spring babies.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    That's what Chris told me too . She is using an old can right now like I am so I am not sure what all issues there are. I am getting a small can of Esbilac the new batch and will try it out.

    Has anyone tried adding mixed cereal baby food to their formula they are having issues with? I had issues with my babies getting slimy poop on Zoologic 33/40 but the baby cereal cleared it right up. I just added 5 ccs of the baby food to their formula for the day. Maybe the same fix would work for the Esbilac if dilluting doesn't help?
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I went back to the vets where I just purchased a new can of Esbilac on Friday (it is still unopened), to exchange it, but ALL of the cans they have, have that same lot number on it. What to do, what to do? I wonder if the yogurt I already add to their formula will counteract any issues with the powder? It would be helpful if PetAg or SOMEONE would come up with the proper dilution for us? And why did they change it anyway? Haven't they ever heard, that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" My guess is that it was a cost cutting measure, but if that is the case, I haven't seen a decrease in the price of the powder/

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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I called PetAG and they told me the same for the liquid that I need to dilute it more. though they dont know how much.

    I may go ahead and order Goat esbilac I couldnt stand to loose my babies.

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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I'm going to try to post this on all the Esbilac-related threads, but Shirley Casey (ewildagain.org) is coming out with an extensive article today or tomorrow on this problem. In the meantime, she states that at her facility they have been having the best luck with a 1: 2.25 or 1: 2.5 ratio of powder to water.
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number


    Ack - I wonder if this was a problem with my pinkies and/or why they deteriorated and even why I lost them?

    I ordered a new can and I am currently feeding a 5 week old stunningly beautiful boy with it... its lot number is P2848E

    I'm scared now, but will reduce the concentration as informed to 1: 2.25 or 1: 2.5 ratio of powder to water.

    Thanks all.

  16. #36
    whopoopwrasse Guest

    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I just ended up with a can of 0929 and had no choice but to keep it since it's my only supplier and it was the last can, so I called and spoke with the Esbilac people and she said to dilute more because it's finer powder but I told her that I don't use the same method. The can says it makes 60oz. and since the can weighs 340g I use a gram scale and use 34 grams to 6oz (3/4 cup) water, when I told her this she said to keep doing it that way because that is much more acurate than scoops.

    She also said that anyone interested can go here for updates:

    http://www.ewildagain.org/Nutrition/...te%20Alert.htm

    hope this helps, I used a can of 0919 and she said it was basically the same stuff as it was made one day earlier with the same process....

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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    WELL HERE IS MY STORY, NEED opinions please....I HAD A CAN WITH THE 919 AND HAD PROBLEMS ON AND OFF, I started using the premixed cans yesterday, I ordered more powder from chris, but until I get it I'm using the liquid. Tink has had mushy poo for a few days, and I was adding rice cereal to it for about the last 4 weeks as well. Well it was starting to get better but thought I'd add some mashed banana also last nite, this morning I got the equivelent of what looks like slimy overipe mashed banana.....She is also on some veggies, apples, mustard greens and sweet potato...am i overdoing??? I fed her her cereal/formula /banana this morning and took veggies away, also gave them a block to nibble on. Wendy is just fine, no Diahrreah Should I flush for the next few feeding with Pedialyte and then try formula again. Tink is about 7-8 weeks old now. Wendy about 8-9 weeks. and they are down to 2 esbilac feedings a day, sometimes 3, but usually only 2x is what i can get them to take.
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  18. #38
    squirrelsrule&bunniestoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    With the Zoologic 33/40 I always have issues with my squirrels having slimy poop, UNLESS I add a little baby food cereal to it, then that clears it right up. Maybe the same thing is working for you. I would give solid foods to your squirrel and formula, don't mash stuff up and all, he should be chewing it. Then add the baby cereal to the formula and start her on that and see how that works for you.
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    Esbilac users may want to check out Shirley Casey's article that she published this morning:

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18687
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    '...and the greatest of these, is Love. '

  20. #40
    whopoopwrasse Guest

    Default Re: Check your Esbilac Lot Number

    I already posted the link this morning! Geez I'm on the ball!

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