diarrhea, dehydrated, losing weight, nothing helping

[Critter_Queen]

Can anyone here help me?? I vented about my vet on another thread ("Not Good") not being much help with the two remaining squirrels in the litter of four I picked up Thursday night.

The male is doing well...gaining weight, eating well...having mostly solid poops...

But the female is just in terrible shape! I mean, she looks good, gets grumpy at appropriate times, but she's LOSING weight despite the four-hour feedings of appropriate amounts, trying to supplement her with pedialyte, but she doesn't want it...has diarrhea SO bad it's almost totally liquid consistency...but sometimes it'll start out as one normal little poop but then get runny almost instantly.

WHAT IS GOING ON!?? Could she have an infection? She's lost six grams in the last two days and she was only 100 grams to start with at six weeks old!

HELP!! What should I do!?!? I'm trying to reach my mentor but haven't been able to yet. I think I've got about another day before this little one is too far gone to save...

I'm feeding them Esbilac/water/whipping cream/rodent block formula and trying to get her to take pedialyte in between for supplemental fluids. I also mix in Bene Bac to the formula...but it's not helping her.

My mentor told me I needed to ramp them up to full strength formula as fast as I can since the other female died of seizures that she thinks may be due to a calcium deficiency... But I'm going to water her formula back down again at noon and try to start over with her...and I'm Xing the whipping cream from the recipe for now.

I hate this. I wish the could tell us what's wrong with them!!

[Critter_Queen]

One final question (for now)...

Can I use the pedialyte in her formula instead of water???

[Timber]

Critter_Queen, when we don't have hard core answers sometimes we have to imporvise and try anything to help. Here is what a rehaber/natural herbs told me to tell Sky to do for Chancie when she was having problems with her and diareah. She took a banana and smushed it to pulp and mixed assodofphius ( Sorry about the spelling. Spelled it like it sounds) and feed. Now Chancie is an adult but I bet if you mixed the banana/ assodof mixture with her formula it migth help. Or you could get the pureed babyfood banana food and mix the ass. with that and feed it to her. You can get the what ever (assodoff. stuff) at a pharmacy, natural food store or herb store. The bananas are a constapaing help and the assodof is for the stomach. Have you tried Beni-bac? Beni-bac for kittens is usuable if you can't find it for wildlife. You don't have time to order it and waite and you can probably only find the kitten ben in a four pack at a pet store. Good luck and I will keep you and baby in my thoughts and prayers.

[island rehabber]

CQ, this is definitely a problem for a wildlife vet but I did a little book-searching for you and learned that diarrhea is most often caused by:
Overfeeding
Change in diet
Soap on feeding utensils/syringes
Over rich formula (too much fat)

it is possible that your squirrel's system can't tolerate the high fats in the whipping cream...?? Parasites, including coccidia ad giardia can also cause this. Has she been given any other antibiotics which could throw her gut flora out of whack? If not, it may be that she has an internal infection and needs treatment for that. As for the Pedialyte, Lactated Ringers is recommended for diarrhea instead but you may have trouble getting your hands on that. Wish I could be more help to you...but please respond as to whether she's already gotten antibiotics or not.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

what about yogurt?
You really seem to be getting your share of bad luck I hope things straighten out soon for you & the babies!
(hugs)

[muffinsquirrel]

Yes, try the yogurt - get some Dannon LaCreme vanilla - that usually works well on mine. Feed it plain, or mix it with the Esbilac, or just however you can get her to take it. Yogurt is what the doctor gave me when I was in the hospital and had diarrhea that nothing would stop, I harassed him about being in a major medical center and all they could think to do was give me spoiled yak milk to eat! (I am not a yogurt fan!) But it worked, when nothing else would.

As soon as mine are old enough for me to start thinking about trying them on solid foods, I start leaving a small dish of yogurt mixed with some Esbilac powder in their cage at night. (Oops - at night for flyers, during the day for others!) That way they can try it out if they get hungry before the next feeding time. It doesn't take them long to figure out what it's for, and to start looking for it.

Good luck. I hope the yogurt or something works, and you are able to save the baby.

muffinsquirrel

[Critter_Queen]

Thank you all for your replies, thoughts and ideas.

She hasn't had any antibiotics. I'm using Bene Bac powder for mammals (have been since day 2) in the formula. I could try adding the type of yogurt suggested....will look for it tonight.

So, over my lunch hour I took her formula back down to 20% E-powder 80% water, Bene Bac powder, .5 cc Kaopectate...hold the whipping cream. If I recall correctly, nearly as soon as I started the whipping cream to fatten them up she started the REALLY bad diarrhea...she's had the diarrhea in one form or another since I got her feeding again...but it got REALLY bad after the whipping cream...Which would go along with almost everything IR suggested as a culprit.

Unfortunately, even if I get in to see my wildlife vet tonight, I have to take my three dogs first...to another vet. They are itching like crazy (not mange...been there done that!) but don't have fleas or any other parasite I can see...

I'm so sick...I need a break...I wish this little girl would just get better so I can too!! ~ pout, pout ~ Ahhh, but such is the life of a wildlife rehabilitator, 'eh?

Keep the suggestions coming...I'm willing to try anything...well, 'cept voodoo.

[island rehabber]

Thank you all for your replies, thoughts and ideas.

She hasn't had any antibiotics. I'm using Bene Bac powder for mammals (have been since day 2) in the formula. I could try adding the type of yogurt suggested....will look for it tonight.

So, over my lunch hour I took her formula back down to 20% E-powder 80% water, Bene Bac powder, .5 cc Kaopectate...hold the whipping cream. If I recall correctly, nearly as soon as I started the whipping cream to fatten them up she started the REALLY bad diarrhea...she's had the diarrhea in one form or another since I got her feeding again...but it got REALLY bad after the whipping cream...Which would go along with almost everything IR suggested as a culprit.

Unfortunately, even if I get in to see my wildlife vet tonight, I have to take my three dogs first...to another vet. They are itching like crazy (not mange...been there done that!) but don't have fleas or any other parasite I can see...

I'm so sick...I need a break...I wish this little girl would just get better so I can too!! ~ pout, pout ~ Ahhh, but such is the life of a wildlife rehabilitator, 'eh?

Keep the suggestions coming...I'm willing to try anything...well, 'cept voodoo.

CQ, my beloved NRBF Paul is a civil engineer and he's always telling me to "look for the SIMPLEST answer to the problem, not the most complex....look for something....ANYTHING...that was changed right before the problem manifested itself." (This is how they figure out why buildings fall down, yikes!) It is entirely possible that your little girl had a fritzy system before you started the whipped cream, but it really went on the fritz after that was added to her diet. I would stick with the yogurt, the Esbilac, and the Benebac and let's see how she does in 24-48 hrs. -- we'll all be prayin' and hopin', too.

[GhosTS]

If he is losing weight fast and has diarrhea, I only have one guess.coccidia.You need to do a feces test A.S.A.P and get her on medication.Tell your vet to check the feces for internal parasites.This has to be done quickly.

[snakegetters]

I am no squirrel expert and I don't even do much with mammals, but if this case was presented to me for emergency care I'd consider maintaining the animal in an incubator in the mid to high 80's, rehydrate with Lactated Ringer's Solution by subcutaneous injection in addition to oral fluids and initiate diagnostic testing on *all* the animals in this group ASAP. A fecal would certainly be a good start.

Some issues can also be caused by calcium deficiency, though I'm not sure if this fits the symptoms. I'd want to run a PCV and maybe a blood chemistry panel, taking a minimum volume sample after the LRS.

Diagnostics are a good thing if your budget and your patient can afford them. Sometimes there is no time for diagnostics and you have to guess with what you have on hand for there to be any chance of being effective. It's nice having an in-house zoo vet clinic where I work, but not everybody has that advantage, so you make do with what you have here and now.

[Critter_Queen]

Thank you all SO SO MUCH for all your helpful replies!!

I was finally able to reach and meet with my wildlife vet last night! HOORAY!! No really nasty bacteria or parasites found in her stools (and let me tell you how EASY collecting a sample is at this point in her diarrhea! Ugh...too easy) so we gave her a calcium injection, de-wormed both of them, got some LR with 5% dextrose to use in leu of water for her formula for the next few days until we can get up to full strength formula, digestive enzymes, a bene bac-type nutritional supplement (new, for dogs, high potency), baytril, cal-tabs...I think that's about it. Female seems better this morning. Still has diarrhea, but was more interested in eating (specially with the LR instead of water), and didn't lose any more weight since yesterday!! YAY!!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhh.....that feels SO much better. I can't stand to have an animal in my care that isn't being given the VERY BEST treatment I can find. I'm fortunate in this case that I don't have children, so I have some funds for this kind of thing. That and I have donors that regularly donate to our rehabbing...we do an adopt-a-critter kinda thing...for $10 a month (9 months a year or 12, they choose) they get weekly updates and photos of the critter their funds are currently supporting and how the funds are being spent to aid in that critter's rehabilitation. And when it's appropriate, we invite the sponsor to the release. They LOVE THAT PART.

K, so now that my little squirrel and I are feeling better...I better get some work done!!

Thank you all again for all your hopes, thoughts, vibes and prayers...they were answered!

PS- I also wanted to add that I think her main problem is a calcium deficiency. Within hours of having that injection she was feeling better and it was evident in her spunkiness... Thank God for calcium injections!!

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Wonderful News!! It's about time we need some of that around here!! This is cause for celebration!!
Thanks for taking such wonderful care and being persistant to get the little girl straigtened out!

[Momma Squirrel]

Great news Critter Queen. You are doing a terrific job, love the part about your adopt a critter program, what a great idea, lots of people want to help but just don't have the time or knowledge so they can donate a few dollars to help the cause, so great to hear those kinds of stories.

Boy those calcium injections sound like the way to go, wonder if I could get one Not that I need to eat anymore than I do but boy I could use the energy

[Critter_Queen]

Yeah, I'm pretty stoked.

Here are some pics for your entertainment. From last night after the vet visit...please excuse my clutter...it doesn't get cleaned off the table until the Saturday and is piled up again by Monday night! LOL!

ETA-Don't you just love the water-stained wall?? Compliments of a leaky AC unit this summer! Ugh!

[Momma Squirrel]

Great pictures, just puts a big smile on my face and warm feeling in my heart,

[GhosTS]

Oh goody...Glad to hear that you finally found a vet.Also those pics are great.They look so cute.

Now..Im not sure about this, but giving LR continuesly can change the electrolyte balance and can be harmfull if given always.Normally it should only be given for 24 hours constantly.Then you can give it from time to time.The dextrose will also help a great deal.But too much sugars is not good too.

snakegetters, giving sub-Q to small animals ( squirrels,rats,mice ) can make them very stressed.Its not advisable unless the squirrel is not taking any liquids orally.

[Critter_Queen]

Good thought on the LR GhosTS...I'll double-check my instructions with my mentor...I think the reason why the vet told me to do it this way is that she is SO dehydrated and continues to have diarrhea that she never really is rehydrated... I don't think I have more than enough to last me a couple of days...and that should be enough time for me to bring her up to almost full-strength formula before mixing with water instead.

I hear you about too much not being good either...I will double-check for sure...I don't want to hurt her for Pete's sake!

Thanks for the compliments on the pics. Bought me a new camera the other night just for squirrel pics! Bought a Kodak EasyShare C643...LOVE IT. WAY better than my old digital camera and only cost me $20 more! Go figure!

[snakegetters]

Now..Im not sure about this, but giving LR continuesly can change the electrolyte balance and can be harmfull if given always.Normally it should only be given for 24 hours constantly.Then you can give it from time to time.The dextrose will also help a great deal.But too much sugars is not good too.

snakegetters, giving sub-Q to small animals ( squirrels,rats,mice ) can make them very stressed.Its not advisable unless the squirrel is not taking any liquids orally.

Yes, it certainly can. That would be an emergency admission procedure for an animal that was severely dehydrated and/or had other issues to the point that oral rehydration would not be sufficient.

Any good pointers to the veterinary literature on squirrels?

[Critter_Queen]

I talked to my mentor and she agreed with the vet that LR5 is fine to use long-term in this manner. I'm going to trust them on this one as my mentor has been doing this for close to 30 years and is in the animal health field making sure standards are kept up to date.

The female is doing EXCELLENT. Eating better, more active, no more tummy gurggles...and no diarrhea so far since 6:30 a.m....no poops, but no diarrhea either... Ahhh...relief! LOL! I'm not going to worry about her not pooping until she goes until the morning w/out a bowel movement...

Snake, I get most of my technical info from NWRA online store. Don't know the site off-hand..but Google NWRA (nat'l wildlife rehabbers assoc.) and it will take you there. I think it's under marketplace on the side bar???? Just got a pharmacutical guide and quick reference...love them. VERY HELPFUL.