MANGE AND IVERMECTIN

[smp071189]

***THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF MY PREVIOUS THREAD***

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9433

In my original thread my five week old squirrels had a skin problem. I had no idea what it was and there were two different possible problems... Mange or Squirrel Pox. The general diagnosis was mange.

Some symptoms of mange are:

1.Severe itching
2.Hair loss throughout the body, particularly ears, around eyes, legs and groin.
3. lesions on ear margins vary in degree from mild hair loss to crusty lesions
4.Swelling, particularly on the eyelids
4. Inflammation
5.Scales and thickening of the skin
6.Animal usually has a foul odor.

For mange the most common treatment is IVERMECTIN.

Well the vet next to where i work gave me some ivermectin, i asked her the percentage and she said she had already mixed it to their weight, but I haven't weighed them and neither has she... I was worried because she estimated their weight based on their age and I estimated their age from pictures on the internet.

The mixture she gave me is .4 ml and dark brown. She said put a drop on their tounge and then another in 14 days.

I wasn't satisfied so i went to another vet on my way home and he gave me 3ml of ivermectin 1% which is clear.

Does anyone have any idea what the vet that gave me the "premixed stuff" mixed up for me or if / how i should use it? Or should I use the clear ivermectin 1%?

So what do i do now? How do i go about administering the medicine? Should I wait until they are a little older or what?

I will post the pictures again so that anyone who missed them on the previous thread can have a look.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27854&d=1204616681

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27853&d=1204616681

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27852&d=1204616634

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27851&d=1204616621

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27850&d=1204616610

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27849&d=1204615782

[island rehabber]

smp/etc I am hitting the books for you right now -- back in a second!

[roto]

Those poor babys. I hope you get them fixed up soon.

Nice to know that they're in good hands.

:)

[island rehabber]

Okay.. you really need to weigh the squirrels, otherwise this could be disastrous. The .4ml the first vet gave you is the right dose for a mammal weighing between 125-250grams. These babies may weigh less than that and you would split the .4ml up accordingly.

You CANNOT use the 1% ivermectin, which the second vet gave you, on a small mammal like a squirrel without diluting it: 1 part ivermectin to 99 parts water or propylene glycol. Hold onto it for future use, but know it cannot be given 'straight' in the 1% strength.

smp/etc if you can weigh them, even in ounces, we can calculate grams and be sure of the correct dose. The sooner these poor sweeties get the ivermectin into them the better they will feel -- sometimes within 24 hours!

[Apple Corps]

Here is the scoop:

http://ratguide.com/meds/antiinfectives/ivermectin.php

[Apple Corps]

ir - please check my link - dilution at 1 to 99 or 1 to 10 ??

[island rehabber]

AC I think he logged off for the night.....
.....just want to let you know your mailbox is full. :D

[smp071189]

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou
You guys are awesome for your help. I have a scale at work and i'll weigh them as soon as i get to work tomorrow. It will be after class around 12 o'clock.

[Apple Corps]

ir - thanks - I just emptied a few messages - please check out the new link - looks like the mother lode of mange and Ivermectin info.

Now - for the dosage........

It also looks like some do use water to dilute - especially if you mix it quickly and get it in the fuzzer.

[island rehabber]

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou
You guys are awesome for your help. I have a scale at work and i'll weigh them as soon as i get to work tomorrow. It will be after class around 12 o'clock.

In the meantime, be extra clean and cautious that you don't spread the mange mites to other critters or yourself, ok? We'll be here to help you tomorrow. Sorry we are being so cautious but it is possible to overdose ivermectin and you DON'T want to do that, so let's get their weights and do this the right way. :thumbsup

[smp071189]

Hey... I just thought of something....

The second vet told me to put one drop of the 1% ivermectin on their toung for twenty one days... But according to what yall have said; that would kill them. So i guess what I am getting at is... Should I let the vet know that he could have had me killing my squirrels? Because I.R. if you didn't tell me to come back and let you and A.C. help me with the conversions, I would have followed the vet's instructions.

[island rehabber]

Hey... I just thought of something....

The second vet told me to put one drop of the 1% ivermectin on their toung for twenty one days... But according to what yall have said; that would kill them.

OMG! Yes, it would have!!! My "Bible", the book "Wild Mammal Babies, the First 48 Hours and Beyond" specifically states that "1% injectable is 10 mg/ml. When dosing small animals (squirrels, bunnies, young opossums) it MUST be further diluted." (I. Ruth/D. Gode..p225) Most regular vets don't treat wildlife or have not really studied wildlife medicine at all....you might let that second vet know how deadly his/her advice was (in a nice way, of course) :D

[Apple Corps]

In addition - you only give two or three doses - about a week apart

NOT 21 doses - only 2 or 3

[Apple Corps]

ir has been researching the dosages all last night - me too. There is some conflicting info on dosages but her experience and judgement is to go with a small drop of the diluted solution and get it in your fuzzers ASAP.

So - and anyone please dive in if you see it differently:

take the clear 1% solution that the second vet gave you and dilute 1 part of it by adding 9 parts of EITHER (propylene glycol OR vegetable oil OR water).

Mix it up well and place 1 drop of the bitter tasting solution on each of their tongues YUCK :shakehead Repeat in 7 days and we'll chat about a third dosage based on how they are looking.

You can use the syringe for precise measurement when diluting - draw up 1 unit of the clear 1% solution and then draw up 9 units of the oil or water - squirt it in a small glass and mix it up - then draw up a small amount of the newly mixed solution and get 1 drop in each of them orally - I'd probably mix it with a bit of Esbilac liquid formula.

Does this sound like a plan for everyone ???

[island rehabber]

I'm back -- sorry we had a terrible storm here and I was up all night....yes one little drop for each squirrel....then in 14 days they can be re-dosed and possibly a third time 14 days after that if needed. Good luck smp!!

[smp071189]

Ok... what is propylene glycol?

and fyi... the girl weighs 3.7 oz and the boy weighs 3.2 oz

[Buddy'sMom]

:wave123 smp! It looks like AC and IR are not presently online. In reading their last posts (#14 and 15), it looks like they are in agreement that diluting the 1% clear is the best way to go. If you don't know what propylene glycol is, you don't have any :D -- so just use water or vegetable oil.

It also looks like this method is not weight dependent. Once diluted as described by AC, each squirrel just gets one drop.

I hope they are feeling better soon!!

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Apple Corps]

That is less weight than we guessed - use vegetable oil - I'll get back to you with a modified dilution to account for their weight.

[Apple Corps]

OK - here is my two cents on this - important to get a dosage in them now. Given their very very small nature, I would dilute the 1% solution as follows:

1 unit of 1% solution and 12 units of vegetable oil or water - mix well and administer 1 drop to each fuzzer as described.

I would get the dosage in them NOW - too much more time = risk.

[smp071189]

ok... I am going to put the dose in them at about 6 when i get home. But should i get some propylene glycol? It would be no problem to stop and get some on the way home.

[Apple Corps]

The advantage of PG is that is dissolves the Ivermectin in solution - vegetable oil and water will only suspend it - requiring thorough mixing and disposal of what is not used - not a big deal when you are only going to do 2 or 3 doses.

The PG, if you can get it easily, will be a more accurate solution - but getting the dose in them ASAP is more important than the choice of PG versus vegetable oil versus water.

[smp071189]

Sorry that i am getting back to yall so late...


I gave them the medicine in the middle of feeding them about 3 hours ago. :thumbsup I think they are going to heal right up, they had no adverse responses to the ivermectin and i got the propylene glycol from a compounding store on my way home from work. Hopefully the boy's hair will grow back fast and hopefully the girl doesn't lose any.

:thankyou :thankyou

Especially to A.C. and I.R. Both of you spent so much time on this for me and my little squirrels and I don't know how to even begin to thank you two.

If there is ever anything that I could do, please let me know.

** I'll post some pics showing how fast the boy's hair grows back just for reference***

[Apple Corps]

You are more than welcome - all you need to do for us is love those lil fuzzers and take good care of them. Are they well hydrated?

[island rehabber]

Good work, smp/etc! (too many numbers for my bleary eyes, lol)
Yes as AC mentioned they should be well hydrated and a little extra warm, especially the boy with his fur loss. It is harder for him to thermoregulate right now.
The ivermectin should begin working within 24 hours and they should be a little less itchy. Here's hopin' -- and please do keep us posted!

[LynninIN]

SMP ~ Wow! I can't believe you are only 18 and still in highschool. You and a few other teenagers on this board give me hope for the future. You will make an excellent vet.

[island rehabber]

You and a few other teenagers on this board give me hope for the future.

Aint it the truth? :bowdown TSB, The Next Generation is going to be awesome! :bowdown

[smp071189]

:thankyou :bowdown :thankyou :bowdown :thankyou

Thanks for all of your compliments! Yeah these will be the 3rd and 4th litter that i have raised, I have also rehabbed a fawn and a raccoon. I have not had anything die on me yet so I feel pretty accomplished to only be 18. These are the first babies that I have had any problems with and thanks to all of you, there is no longer a problem. I am so happy that I found this board. I don't know what i would have done without all of your help. I have become very attatched to these two babies and am thinking about keeping them a little longer than usual.

And just a follow up on Jack and Jill... They are still eating well and they are staying warm and VERY active. Their itching has gone away for the most part and they are sleeping better.

[Apple Corps]

That's what we want to HEAR :alright.gif :alright.gif :alright.gif :alright.gif

NICE JOB - KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK mjs mjs mjs mjs

[Buddy'sMom]

:thumbsup :thumbsup Glad to hear they got their medicine and are already feeling better!! Great job!! :thumbsup :thumbsup

And, yes, we LOVE pictures and would love to see your sweeties!! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon Even if Jack is a little bit balding, you will find everyone here oohing and aahing over him anyway! :D

[island rehabber]

That's great news, smp/etc! Thanks for the update....so glad the kids are less itchy. :thumbsup

[vdyhogan]

just a quick add on note as to telling the vet some take it the right way but present facts to back you up. mjs A quality Vet is hard to find but they are human an would rather know than look stupid

Great advice about ivermectin it also can be used topically on the back between shoulders but for faster action internal great

Vdyhogan
tx wildlife rehabilitatod

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

:goodpost Topical only helped my kids about 20-30% Orally 100% effective.

[emjaysea]

I have a wild squirrel with mange feeding at my bird feeder. The last one l had lost most of its fur on one side, and didn't survive the Michigan winter. I'd like to help this one, what can I do?
Thanks,
mjc

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Thanks Gams,
They also sell a small bottle
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1561
6$ and change you will also need a small medicine syringe.
Heres the syringe: 35 cents
http://www.squirrelsandmore.com/product/424/5cc-oral-oring-syringe-w-and-cap.htm

[JLM27]

Hi, I tried the URl you posted to get the small bottle of ivermectin, but I can't seem to get through to them on the phone. My squirrel guys in the backyard have big bald patches and miserable itching. I want to help them asap but I can't seem to make contact. Does anyone have another source for a small bottle of 1% solution?:thinking

[JLM27]

Chris called me with tons of information and support. You are right, she is very good!:flash3

[JLM27]

HELP! Ok, I'm new here and feel pretty dumb because I can figure out how to reply to a post, but I can't figure out how to start my own thread. Can someone give me a hint? :thinking

What I want to ask is what might be the effect of giving a squirrel too many nuts? Is this poisonous to them?

[Apple Corps]

HELP! Ok, I'm new here and feel pretty dumb because I can figure out how to reply to a post, but I can't figure out how to start my own thread. Can someone give me a hint? :thinking

What I want to ask is what might be the effect of giving a squirrel too many nuts? Is this poisonous to them?

To start your own thread go to whatever Category you want to post in (like Emergency (Life Threatening) Help Needed) and click on the New Thread button in the upper left corner - you can start a new thread from within a thread.

[Secret Squirrel]

Chris called me with tons of information and support. You are right, she is very good!:flash3

1/99 ratio for oral ivermectin.....was what Chris recomends. FYI :thinking
I thought I read on another thread you dosed 1/12 orally ???? :dono

[Apple Corps]

SS - you can dilute as much as makes sense - you must simply adjust the volume to deliver the correct mg dosage. A 1:99 dilution requires 10 times more volume than a 1:10 dilution to deliver the same mg dosage.

So - a free ranging fuzzer eating nuts - I would probably do the small drop of 1% solution on the nut and call it close enough. A 1:10 dilution for a small baby would make more sense than trying to get a much larger volume of a 1:100 dilution in her.

Clear as mud :thinking :thinking :thinking


Did you check out the dosage calculator sticky in the mange specific ailment section??

AC

[Secret Squirrel]

Clear as mud :thinking :thinking :thinking


Did you check out the dosage calculator sticky in the mange specific ailment section??

AC

LOL...and yes I did. I was also talkling on the phone to Chris when I posted that. :thumbsup