Please. Urgent Help needed

[Maxy]

We have had max for about 5 months now.. since he was a tiny little thing with closed eyes.. and so far he has done really well.. that is, until this morning. When I woke up this morning, max was sleeping and seemed fine.. when I came back in the room about 2 hours later, he was lying lethargic at the end of our bed. I gave him some fluids and picked him up to put him near his food. WHen I set him down, he fell on his side.. listless and scared the crap out of me! He has been pretty lethargic all day and has been drinking quite a bit of fluids. He makes this weird bark every time we pick him up or move him around. All he wants to do is sleep. He also is breathing very shallow and is fairly warm to the touch. We feed him a pretty well rounded diet that consists of water, pedialyte, snow peas, broccoli, sweet potato, black berries, cherries, raspberries, spinach, cauliflower, carrots, brazil/almonds/macadamia/hazlenuts, strawberries, and other veggies and fruits. A while back before we knew what a correct diet was.. he was exhibiting similar symptoms.. and at that time I concluded that he had MBD.. so we adjusted his diet and he got a lot better. I am really worried that he is going to die. Is there some sort of flu/cold or something that he could have? What do i Do?? We really love this guy and we treat him like he is our kid... shoot.. he might as well be. Please help us!

[Tinkerbell]

Hi Maxy - I'm so sorry to hear about your baby!! Believe me I know exactly what you are going through - but someone will be here shortly to help you. These people are phenominal & will do everything in their power to get her better. So hang on help will be on it's way. :Love_Icon

[TinyPaws]

sorry to hear about your little one. someone with experience will come on soon. in the meantime may i suggest using a heating pad for him on low..:grouphug

[4skwerlz]

Hello Maxy,

I'm worried that you have been giving Maxy Pedialyte for so long. It is only meant to be given for 48 hours, without medical supervision. One reason is that it is very high in sodium. How much Pedialyte have you been giving him, and for how long? Also, how much plain water?

I would discontinue the Pedialyte at once and provide plenty of fresh plain water.

He likely did/does have MBD as well. Please go to the drugstore and buy a human Vit D3 supplement and a human calcium carbonate supplement (600 mg). You will want give Maxy 1,000-1,200 IU of Vitamin D3 PER WEEK, and 5,000 mg of calcium carbonate PER WEEK, for one week. After the first week, the amount of calcium should be gradually reduced. I am at a party, but will try to check back in. Also, Mars may be able to help you homeopathically.

[Maxy]

thank you all so much for your help! I tried to get in touch with the audubon society here and they basically told me to have him put down! I about crawled through the phone! we have talked to more than one vet and they basically refused to help us.. one of them pretended my husband wasnt standing in front of her. Ugh.. some people.

we have been giving max pedialyte and water on a regular basis. I will stop giving him pedialyte right away. We also purchased some calcium and vit-d and vitamin drops today and a walker so that we can take him outside without worrying about him running off.

He has been pooping and peeing normally and we have been giving a huge variety of different veggies on a daily basis.

Are Oasis brand vitamin drops meant for ferrets ok to give to him? What are the best brands of vitamins to administer and what forms of rodent food are ok for him? We dont have a very well stocked pet store around here so we werent able to find some of the items that were suggested in earlier posts on other threads... are there any good substitutes?

Thank you all again!

[4skwerlz]

Can you go to the Chat Room?

[Maxy]

also.... i read earlier that i should crush the vitmamins and give it to him with other food, like avocado's... how much calcium/vitamin d should I give at a time?

[4skwerlz]

also.... i read earlier that i should crush the vitmamins and give it to him with other food, like avocado's... how much calcium/vitamin d should I give at a time?

Can you go to the Chat Room?

[Maxy]

which chat room? im there now

[4skwerlz]

which chat room? im there now

The Main Lobby.

[island rehabber]

Looks like Maxy is in good hands -- 4S please PM me if there's anything I can do.....

[TexanSquirrel]

:thumbsup Good work guys!

Hope the little one feels better soon!

[Maxy]

thank you all again. I really appreciate it. I know where I will go for advice from now on!

[squirrelfriend]

My Weebles had an episode a couple of years ago. It was not MBD. SHe seemed feverish. The doctor gave her a sugary substance (might have just been sugar water) to get her glucose levels up and some liquid calcium. Her fever broke and SHe perked up within 12 hours. Never was sure what was the mater with her but her symptoms were lethargy, feverish (does yours feel extra warm? feel the ears and body).

Deffiinitly follow the MBD advice stated earlier above, give a sunlight source and increase leafy greens. I just wanted to add getting her sugar levels up until she perks back up.

[Tinkerbell]

Hi Maxy: I hope things get better soon. If you follow their advice - I just know it will work. I have just gone through something very similiar & they (the people on this board) saved my Tinkerbell and it brought me a great deal of peace & comfort to know they existed. You will find the same is true for you. You just won't believe what good hands you are in. You are amongst like/loving minds.

I had a vet tell me the same WHILE HE WAS TREATING MY LAB - it scared me into seclusion with her - so thank God you & everyone else who shares our passion found this board. Tinkerbell & I are praying for you! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Maxy]

he is actually doing a lot better. Hes sitting on our table chewing on a stick right now.. which is a far cry from earlier when I couldnt even get him out of bed.

[Apple Corps]

That is the type of news we want to hear mjs

[Maxy]

we have a small uv light in our room and we keep the windows open.. but, we could definitely use a uv lamp. We went to petco today and they didnt have anything that we needed! it was super disappointing.. but, i am glad to see that michaels and joann stores carry the lamp you recommended. We will go first thing tomorrow morning and pick one up for our baby. Thank you for all of the information you gave earlier. I visited tinkerbells thread and I saved all of the information i found on there... there was quite a bit i didnt know! thank you very much. We are feeding max small amounts of calcium in water every 30 minutes or so.. hopefully we will start to see a real improvement tomorrow and the next day. I hate seeing our baby like this! he such a funny little guy. :crazy :crazy

[Maxy]

Hi Maxy: I hope things get better soon. If you follow their advice - I just know it will work. I have just gone through something very similiar & they (the people on this board) saved my Tinkerbell and it brought me a great deal of peace & comfort to know they existed. You will find the same is true for you. You just won't believe what good hands you are in. You are amongst like/loving minds.

I had a vet tell me the same WHILE HE WAS TREATING MY LAB - it scared me into seclusion with her - so thank God you & everyone else who shares our passion found this board. Tinkerbell & I are praying for you! :Love_Icon :Love_Icon


tinkerbell, you are awesome! thank you for your prayers. I'm glad to hear your little one is doing better. I cant wait for maxzilla to start feeling better!

[Buddy'sMom]

Glad he is better tonite! :thumbsup

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[chadfromphilly]

Our prayers are with you...:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[skye]

Hope your little guy gets better best wishes to you in our prayers:)

[squiggs]

:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[4skwerlz]

Hi there Maxy's Mom.

How is Max doing now?

[zoomom]

I am glad you found the help you needed and your baby is better. I will keep you all in my prayers and hope for a full recovery! Praise to TSB!!!

[4skwerlz]

Update:

Spent some time in chat with Maxy's mom.

History: Maxy is a 6 mo-old grey who was found at probably 6 wks old. He was on Esbilac, and thriving, until around 2-3 months, when he self-weaned. Due to a lack of good info, was given a diet of mostly nuts and seeds for the next month. At 1 month after weaning (3-4 months of age) he became lethargic, sleeping all the time, achy, didn't want to be touched, weak, difficulty moving, occasionally twitching or making choking sounds in his sleep, not eating, and drinking a lot. After some research, Maxy's parents changed his diet to include more calcium, etc., and saw immediate improvement. However, the advice of another website was to not give any additional supplementation. They were also advised to give him mainly Pedialyte for hydration. He seemed fine for another couple of months, then in the last few days (at around 6 mos. age), Maxy suddenly relapsed: cries out when touched, sleeps all the time, seems to be in pain, weak, not eating, clingy, falling to the side, and feels warm to the touch, drinking a lot, peeing a lot, and having trouble breathing.

Diagnosis: Acute MBD resulting in critically low blood calcium levels, possibly complicated by an overdose of Pedialyte, resulting in potassium poisoning or sodium poisoning, causing severe dehydration.

Treatment: The treatment of choice for acute advanced MBD would be a calcium injection; however, in Oregon, this was not possible as no vet or rehabber would treat the squirrel as being "non-native." Next-best thing is a calcium solution given by mouth drop by drop on the mucous membranes and then swallowed. The treatment for the Pedialyte overdose is simply plain water to flush the sodium and potassium. Advised Maxy's mom to crush calcium pills (total of 1,000 mg) in water, and to place squirrel on lap in a towel and feed the mixture with an eye dropper, one drop at a time. Then to continue with plain water. Mom reported some improvement after just 15 minutes or so, which would confirm the diagnosis of low blood calcium, which typically responds immediately and dramatically to treatment. Also, after initial resistance to the dropper of fluid, Maxy did begin to like taking the fluid. Also advised her to not feed any other foods or supplements other than calcium for the next 24 hours, or until Maxy improves. The Pedialyte overdose stresses the kidneys and liver, so best not to overload them with food to digest or supplements. Did suggest watermelon and other watery fruits for tomorrow morning to balance electrolytes and provide some glucose and easy-to-digest energy for Maxy.

Mars is going to provide some homeopathic suggestions for Maxy's mom, which hopefully she will be able to find tomorrow.

I hope I remembered everything....this was all done in the middle of a family get-together......Anyone with ideas or suggestions, please jump in. :grouphug

[Maxy]

I really have to say, I agree! Max is doing much better. We are able to pick him up with out him fussing or barking at us. He is taking water quite frequently now.. though he seems to miss the familiar grape taste of the pedialyte! Let me tell you.. I wont make that mistake again! He has been more active as the day has gone on.. and has even been a bit playful.. hugging and rolling around with his tennis ball. It is such a relief to see him feeling better. Thank you so much for you help. I really appreciate it. He has been drinking the calcium solution all day and has been responding really well to it. thank you again! He is our little maxzilla.. and it is so nice to see that side of his personality so soon after our scare this morning! We will definitely keep up with what you recommended!

Thank you again!:thankyou :jump :multi :alright.gif

[TinyPaws]

That's wonderful news. I was waiting for an update and am so glad things are working for him and you...good job :thumbsup

[island rehabber]

Great news, Maxy :thumbsup! I am going to move your thread right below to "Non-Life-Threatening Help Needed", so each post won't trigger special messages to our rehabbers, OK? (Yes, we actually do that....for example with every Emergency post I get email notices on all three of my email accounts :thumbsup) I'm so glad your boy is feeling better! :)

[Tinkerbell]

what great news to wake up to!! I'm so glad to hear Maxy is doing better!!! That's just awesome!!! :jump

[4skwerlz]

Wonderful news!

How is Max this morning? Is he still warm? Is he still peeing a lot?

[zoomom]

This is great morning news, keep us posted. 4skwerlz you are awsome!!!!!

[Lady Squirrelly]

So glad Max if on the road to recovery.:thumbsup

It is wonderful how everyone is so willing to help and get our babies well. :grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

THIS PLACE ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maxy]

he is doing much better this morning. he woke up at his normal time (and then woke me up) and is really hungry. he is peeing normally and doesnt feel incredibly hot to the touch. he is doing much better. We are going to continue with what you advised for today and see how he does.. just to make sure he is out of the woods. Thank you again!:bowdown you guys are awesome!

[4skwerlz]

he is doing much better this morning. he woke up at his normal time (and then woke me up) and is really hungry. he is peeing normally and doesnt feel incredibly hot to the touch. he is doing much better. We are going to continue with what you advised for today and see how he does.. just to make sure he is out of the woods. Thank you again!:bowdown you guys are awesome!

Wonderful news! So does Max still feel a little warm? How is his breathing? Does he still seem weak? Is he grooming himself at all? Were you able to give him the watermelon and grapes?

Since Maxy's blood calcium levels were so dangerously low last night, I think it would be a good idea to continue with the calcium crushed in water--another 1,000 mgs today. Let's not give any Vit D3 just yet. I want to make certain, his system is flushed of all that Pedialyte first.

[Maxy]

He actually feels a normal temperture. We have been giving him grapes and will continue with a lot of water and the calcium/water mixture.. he is having more difficulty taking it today now that he isnt exhausted! We will get as much in him as possible though! :) He has loads of energy and is able to hang by his back feet.. which he couldnt do yesterday. He also has been grooming himself and playing all morning. We are going to pick up a uv lamp and some watery fruits today for him. He hasnt been peeing every 10 minutes.. like he was before. So, I think that is probably a good sign. He also doesnt seem as horribly thirsty.. Geeze.. I cant believe I ignored the signs before. I used to be a medic for goodness sake.. if I can recognize these symptoms in a human you would think i would be able to recognize them in a baby animal.. Thank goodness for you.. I dont know what I would have done if you hadnt given me such good advice. Honestly.. I tried four or five different vets and they wouldnt even give me the time of day.. Thank you so much leigh!

[Pam]

:wottGreat news! I'm so glad that Maxy is feeling better!

[4skwerlz]

Update:

Mars and I chatted with Maxy's mom again this morning. Thanks to a long night of wonderful care by his human parents, Maxy has had a complete turnaround since last night. Most of his symptoms have resolved completely. He is taking his calcium, eating his fruit, and seems active and hungry. Although he no longer feels burning hot to the touch, his temp is still a bit high (102.3 using a digital thermometer under the arm). Mom also reported he was now drinking his own urine. Otherwise, his physical exam is normal, and he even passed the dehydration test.

Diagnosis: Unchanged. MBD plus Pedialyte overdose. It is hard to say which condition(s) caused Maxy's collapse last night: the MBD, the Pedialyte overdose, or both. A vet visit is out of the question--as a non-native species no one will treat him. So we are treating for both problems.

Treatment:
With no evidence of infection, Mom will continue to check Maxy's temp, and we will wait and see.

Today Max is having watery fruits: melon, grapes, strawberries, etc., which will help balance his electrolyte levels naturally. Since he is feeling so well and is hungry, he will also be given a bland diet (easy to digest) for the next 24 hours: wheat bread, a little egg, banana, apple, a little avocado. Then Mom will start transitioning Max to a healthy diet.

Maxy will get another 1,000 mg of calcium today, then 600 mg for the next 5 days, for a total of 5,000 mg for the first week. After that, the amount will be reduced. Mom will try to find a rat/mouse vitamin supplement to start in the next few days.

They will try to let Maxy rest as much as possible. No supplemental heat due to his raised temp.

Since Max passed the dehydration test, fluids by dropper was discontinued and he is simply being given access to plain water. And because Maxy has had a lot of fluids flushed through him, and was now drinking his pee, he will be given access to something salty, like a cracker, twice a day. The idea is to get Maxy's fluid/electrolyte levels back in balance naturally by letting Maxy's instincts tell him what his body needs.

Mars has also recommended some homeopathic treatments, which Mom is going to try this week.

Prognosis: Right now, the prospects are excellent for a full recovery! Mom and dad have followed through perfectly on Maxy's care and are determined to do whatever it takes to make him well.

:wott Go Team TSB!:wott

[skye]

This is wonderful news God Bless you all for helping. Best Wishes Maxy:thumbsup :)

[susanw]

Great job 4S! Glad Maxy is doing better!:thumbsup

[Buddy'sMom]

FANTASTIC!!! :wahoo :wahoo Great job everybody!! :bowdown :bowdown

[4skwerlz]

How is Maxy tonight? :grouphug

[Maxy]

he is doing great! He's eating much better.. he LOVES watermelon, by the way! :) hes very active, rolling around all over our bed, jumping up and down like the goofy little thing he is. He's reaching up for us again, standing on his hind legs begging to be picked up. Thank you again!:thumbsup :thankyou :grouphug :multi :jump :wahoo :bowdown :wott

[4skwerlz]

I'm just thrilled to hear it! How is his temp? Also is he still trying to drink his pee? How is his appetite?

[Maxy]

he hasnt been drinking his pee! which is great. We have been giving him a couple of salty crackers every day or at least adding them to his food dish so that they are there if he wants them. I have also crushed up a calcium tablet and a vit d3 tablet for him and sprinkled it all over his food.. he doesnt seem to mind it! I also added a small amount to his drinking water so that I could make sure he was getting it. His temp is normal! He's not even hot to the touch anymore and he has been very active all day. :alright.gif

[zoomom]

Thank goodness maxey is acting like a loveable squirrel many thanks to the squirrel board. you all are awsome!!!!

[4skwerlz]

The news couldn't be better. I'm so happy to hear Maxy is doing so well.:grouphug

As you know, it will take months for Maxy to be completely cured. Maxy received emergency MBD treatment to raise his blood calcium levels. Because of probable Pedialyte overdose, he has also been on a bland diet, and a rehydration program. Now it is time to start transitioning him to a regular healthy diet, with the addition of extra calcium and vitamins until his bones are replenished. This transition will take time; and in Maxy's case, it should take time. Introduce new foods slowly. Don't be surprised if he refuses to try new foods at first.


MBD Treatment

1. Eliminate all unhealthy foods, and feed only foods from the Diet for Pet Squirrels.

2. Provide calcium supplementation. You'll need human supplements for calcium and Vit D3. You will want to dose the Vit D up to the normal RDA for Vit D for rodents, but no more than that, since Vit D CAN be toxic if overdosed. The calcium should be dosed at 5,000 mg calcium for the first week, then 4,000, then 3,000. Then 2,500 per week for several months.

3. Provide full-spectrum light indoors all day long until he is well.

4. Provide sources of Vitamin C: Oranges are good, but red or green bell peppers are the highest. Also sources of protein and fat are very important.

5. Introduce a balanced rodent chow: try KayTee Forti-Diet for Rats and Mice. I recommend this because it is widely available at Walmart and pet stores, and it is tasty. You can also try the KayTee Healthy Bits for Rabbits and Guinea Pigs. It is similar to a kibbled food, but even tastier, and is fortified with a lot vitamins and minerals. It might be a good "transition food" to a rodent chow. Once he is eating the kibbles, you can order some Harlan Teklad Vegetarian Rodent Diet online. I believe it to be the highest quality block.

6. Introduce any other elements that might be missing from his diet, especially protein and fats.

Note: If you absolutely can't get your squirrel to eat healthy foods, then additional supplementation will be needed.

For your information, below is the weekly "RDA" for a 16-oz rodent (.45 kg):
Calcium: 2,500 mg per week
Vit D: .0125 mg (1,000 IU) per week

[zoomom]

How is maxey feeling?

[Tinkerbell]

Hi Maxy - how wonderful to hear the good news!!! That just gives the warm & fuzzy all over. You have done a GREAT job & are GREAT parents!! I know this is exhausting so hang in there! PS. Tinkerbell says "Hi" to Maxy :poke