Poop Problems

[junik85]

I have a flyer. He's about 2 or 3 years old. Lately I noticed that he just wants to stay in his little gord bed. He used to run all around the cage. I also noticed that when he would go eat, he wouldn't stay on his two back legs, instead he would actually it on his butt. He also would climb on the cage some, but he would do it real slowly. I feed him corn and sunflower seeds on a regular basis. However, a couple of months ago I was giving him a pecan a day. He really liked those and wouldn't eat his other food until I gave him one. I also gave him the occasional carrot, apple, or some other fruit. Anyway, I got him last night to come out of his gord and I noticed that he had poop stuck all on his bottom. I held him and took a damp papertowel and removed all of it. He seems like he's having problems walking, but I can't tell if it's because his claws are longer and getting hung in the liner or if it's something else. I need to know if there is something I can do to help him get better. Is there some kind of food or what? I also need to know about the calcium powder stuff. I think he needs that. I've looked for it before, but I couldn't find it. Can someone please help? He looks really sad. All he does is lay around, eat, drink, and want me to pet him. Please help him.

[4skwerlz]

Sounds like Metabolic Bone Disease to me.

[junik85]

Is there anything I can do about it? What causes that?

[4skwerlz]

Here's some info about MBD in tree squirrels. I believe it is similar for flyers. I will say, right off, that if it is MBD your baby will need emergency calcium and Vit D--tonight.

Read the info below and see if you think this could be the problem:



Metabolic Bone Disease (Revised 12/01/07)

The “typical” pet squirrel diet--consisting mostly of seeds and nuts--causes metabolic bone disease (MBD) a fatal disease caused by calcium deficiency. To avoid MBD, squirrels needs a balanced diet including plenty of
-Calcium
-Vitamin D ("the sunshine vitamin")
-Vitamin C
-Protein
-Fat


If any of these elements is missing, MBD eventually results—it can happen soon after weaning, or show up many years later. Without enough calcium in the diet, the body will take calcium from the bones, causing weak, brittle bones. Because calcium is also involved in cell-to-cell communication throughout the body, neurological symptoms are also common. Symptoms are varied and can include: broken bones, fur loss or thinning, lack of appetite, lethargy, tooth problems, inability to crack nuts, weakness, seizures, paralysis, and eventually death. The very first symptom can vary. A formerly healthy squirrel can suddenly get a broken bone, have a sudden seizure, loss of appetite, become wobbly in the hind legs, or just seem tired or reluctant to climb. Probably the most common first symptoms are sudden seizures and paralysis of the lower body. Sometimes the squirrel will show symptoms, and then recover and seem perfectly normal. This can go on for weeks, months, or even years. Here at The Squirrel Board (TSB), we see far too many pet squirrels die of final-stage MBD--squirrels as old as 7 years, and as young as 3 months. Their owners were new members who loved their squirrels very much, but sadly found TSB too late.

The most difficult element to provide for your squirrel is Vitamin D. Vit D can only come from four sources:

1. The food he eats (this is difficult, as Vit D is found mostly in fish and meat products)
2. From natural sunlight (NOT through a window--glass and screens filter out the UVB rays)
3. From a full-spectrum light indoors
4. A Vit D supplement (can be risky, as Vit D is toxic if overdosed; in fact, high-dose Vit D is used as a rat poison)

Unfortunately, even if your squirrel gets all the nutritional elements listed above, he can still get MBD. You must also AVOID giving your squirrel certain foods. For example, cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seed kernals, pine nuts, corn, and seed mixes are very high in phosphorus and will cause calcium loss. This is because of something called the “Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio.” Every pet squirrel owner should understand the basics of the calc/phos ratio.

The Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio

Calcium and phosphorus “compete” for absorption in the body. When phosphorus is ingested in the diet, as the phosphorus is absorbed through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream, the same amount of calcium is pulled from the body as part of the process. In other words, for every 1 mg of phosphorus your squirrel eats, he must eat AT LEAST 1 mg of calcium (a 1:1 ratio), just to break even. If the required calcium is not available from the diet, the body will obtain it from wherever it can---such as from the bones, where calcium is stored. Most nutritionists recommend that the ideal ratio is somewhere between 1.2-2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus; that’s a ratio of at least 1.2 to 1 or as high as 2 to 1.

So it does no good to feed “high-calcium” foods unless they are also low phosphorus. For example, almonds contain 251 mg of calcium (per 28 grams). Sounds good, right? But that serving of almonds also contains 460 mg of phosphorus. This means that for every 28-gram serving of almonds, your squirrel would actually LOSE 209 mgs of calcium! He would have to eat 209 mgs of extra calcium somewhere else, just to break even. This is called an "inverted calcium/phosphorus ratio" ("inverted" meaning "upside-down"). So you must feed high-calcium foods, but you must also avoid high-phosphorus foods.

Most Common Diet Mistakes

Below are the most common diet mistakes made by people with pet squirrels:

--Lack of Vitamin D. Vit D is found mainly in fish and meat. This is one reason why we recommend eggs in the diet. One exception is: mushrooms! They are one of the few non-meat foods that are high in Vit D. In the wild, squirrels eat a lot of them. Another (man-made) exception is milk products. In the U.S., nearly all milk is fortified with Vit D, so cheese, yogurt, etc., contain Vit D.
--Too many nuts. Every nut has an inverted calcium/phosphorus ratio. Some are worse than others; acorns are the best, but still have more phos than calc, resulting in calcium loss.
--Feeding sunflower seeds, corn, and pine nuts. Terrible calc/phos ratios; much worse even than nuts.
--Not feeding a nutritionally complete rodent kibble as at least 50% (by weight) of the diet.
--Lack of protein and fat. In the wild, squirrels eat bugs, grubs, carrion, and birds eggs. We encourage pet squirrel owners to include eggs (scrambled or hard-boiled), and also insects in the diet. Freeze-dried insects can be purchased online. Although not part of a squirrel's natural diet, yogurt and cheese contain protein, fat, and vitamin D.

[Ryleigh's new mom]

What about Benebac for wet-tail?

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Just a question I don't remember reading......but....is MBD curable or at least treatable to where they can improve?

[island rehabber]

Yes, itis treatable and sometimes curable but you MUST act now, and you must keep with the regimen described in our "Specific Ailments" section on MBD. It is an extremely painful disease and if you want your little flyer to live it's imperative that you change his diet now.

[muffinsquirrel]

By all means, get started treating him immediately. Corn and sunflower seeds are OK as an occasional treat, but definately not for long term feeding. He needs veggies, some fruit, yogurt, mushrooms - a wide variety is best. Yogurt is very good, as it contains calcium. I usually use Dannon LaCreme, but other quality brands are fine. Just make sure that the yogurt has the live culture in it, and DOES NOT contain a sugar substitute (no 'diet' or 'lite'). The yogurt will also help control his messy poops.

Flyers do not need Full Spectrum Lighting as they are nocturnal animals and can manufacture Vitamin D from their diet.

Mine get yogurt 3 or 4 times a week, and I also use L&M Liquid Vitamins in their water. L&M is packaged for various animals - rabbits, ferrets, guinea pigs, etc. - but it is all the same thing - only the dosage is different. For flyers, use 1 or 2 drops per ounce of water. I also give mine a container of plain water, and they will drink from both. If you don't already have one, get him a cuttlebone (in the bird section of pet stores, at Walmart, even in some grocery stores).

He might enjoy the warmth of a heating pad set on 'low', and put under (not in) his cage. MBD makes their bones ache, so the extra heat often makes them feel better. If possible, put a small box on the floor of his cage, right above the heating pad. Put some fleece and kleenex or toilet tissue in it so he can build a nest. Then he can use it or not, as he pleases. You also might want to put him in a smaller cage, to limit his movement, as MBD makes their bones brittle and they will break very easily.

Please keep us up to date on how he's doing. The fact that he can still climb to his gourd nest is good, although, like I said, he might enjoy the warmth of a small nest on a heating pad. You'll get a lot of good information here and on NFSA. Feel free to PM or email me if you need anything.

muffinsquirrel

[junik85]

He is moving around pretty good. He's still having problems with his claws getting hung in the liner. I didn't have much quickly available, so I used what I could find. I fed him just a little bit of mozz. cheese. Not much at all and I put a powder of tums on them. He ate that right up. I put a little heating pad under the cage and he seems to like that. I also fed him some broccolli and a little carrot. He loved the broccolli. Then I went to the store and bought some yogurt, but I didn't know at the time and bought a fat free. It didn't matter though because he doesn't like it at all. I also read somewhere that a lemon would help. But, then again, he didn't like it either. He seems to keep moving around really good. I put a cuddlebone in the cage, but I don't think he likes it either. I plan to go in the morning and buy some vitamins for him to put on his food and in his water. So, what do I need to do now? Just get a better diet started for him?

[Sissy]

Yes a proper diet is the most important to start along with calcium and vitamins. Check out the NSF board and some post on here for more info on the diet. You make have caught this quick enough that it can be turned around. You have recieved alot of good info from people here and you are wise to follow it. Your baby will be in my thoughts and prayers. Keep us updated on how things progress with your baby.

[muffinsquirrel]

The yogurt is very good for them, so keep encouraging him to try it. Although it is rather expensive, all mine prefer the Dannon LaCreme Strawberry Mousse. (They don't get it all that often, because I figure it is just the regular Strawberry LaCreme that has been whipped or something.) But strawberry of any kind seems to be a favorite. The Tums is good - lots of calcium.

Put some large branches in his cage to keep his teeth and nails trimmed. You can also use a piece of sandstone to place his feed bowl on, or even very fine sandpaper. That way he'll be trimming his nails whenever he eats.

Do you know not to use towels or other loose woven fabric for his bedding? His nails can get caught in it and cause a lot of problems. I use fleece, plain white, unscented toilet tissue and kleenex, cotton balls that are 100% cotton, for bedding for mine. I go to thrift stores (GoodWill, etc.) and get fleece caps and use them for nesting pouches - nice and warm and soft and cheap! I poke a hole in the rim and hang them with old fashioned wire shower curtain hangers, or even with plastic zip ties.

It's good that he liked the broccoli. Also try Kale, spinach leaves, Cherry tomatoes cut in half or quarters, mushrooms, etc. He might enjoy a bit of cooked white meat chicken. And, of course, meal worms (Ugh!). Go ahead and give him half of a half of pecan at night as a treat - hand feed it. As he gets better, make sure he gets in-shell nuts to chew on (and to stash away!). There are plenty of lists, on here and on NFSA, telling what is good for them to eat.

Good luck with him, and remember to keep us posted. (A few pictures once in a while is always appreciated!!!)

muffinsquirrel

[kimbia]

ye, yoghurt is very good for squirrels and its a good source of calcium:thumbsup
my chippies love it:rotfl
Im keeping my fingers crosed for your baby to get beter:grouphug :D

[TexanSquirrel]

Good luck treating your little one's MBD!:grouphug

[junik85]

Little Buddy seems to be doing better. I went out yesterday and bought strawberries, an orange, strawberry yogurt, parsley, and L&M Vitamins. He likes the strawberries, I think, but it seems like he doesn't eat the whole thing. It looks like he licks it dry? Anyway, I also don't think he likes having the L&M Vitamins in his water. Does anyone know of another way I could get him to take them? Maybe in an applesauce mixture? I also bought meal worms. He really likes them. I've been giving him a mixture of these things with calcium sprinkled on them. He loved carrots with the calcium on them. How do you know when there's enough calcium in his diet? He still loves corn, so I sprinkle it on there also. I cleaned out his cage so that it would be better for me to watch him. But, apparently it upset him and he has retreated back to his gord. He does come out to eat and poop though. I'm thinking about removing the gord so that I can watch him better. Thank you all for all of your help. I think he's getting better, but I think it'll take some time for him to get used to his new diet and to get fully better.:jump

[4skwerlz]

He likes the strawberries, I think, but it seems like he doesn't eat the whole thing. It looks like he licks it dry?
Probably licking the seeds off them.:D And they don't EVER eat the whole thing, of anything, do they? (Except a nut maybe)


Anyway, I also don't think he likes having the L&M Vitamins in his water. Does anyone know of another way I could get him to take them? Maybe in an applesauce mixture?
I always prefer vitamins put in food so you can control the dosage a little better. Put his daily dose in a teaspoon of something he likes.


I also bought meal worms. He really likes them.
Those are GREAT for him. Good job.


I've been giving him a mixture of these things with calcium sprinkled on them. He loved carrots with the calcium on them. How do you know when there's enough calcium in his diet? He still loves corn, so I sprinkle it on there also.
Try to keep track of how many milligrams (mg) of calcium you are giving him. The normal requirement for a tree squirrel is 500 mg calcium per week for every 100 grams of body weight. I don't know how much your flyer weighs. With MBD we've been doubling it for one week and then see how they improve. If they get better, then start reducing the amount. Be sure to figure in the calcium in the L&M vitamins as well as the calcium sprinkled on. Do not give more of the L&M vitamins than is recommended on the package. It probably contains Vitamin D, and Vitamin D should NEVER be overdosed as it is toxic. Use the plain calcium pills to increase the calcium dosage. If you have questions about this, just PM me.

I cleaned out his cage so that it would be better for me to watch him. But, apparently it upset him and he has retreated back to his gord. He does come out to eat and poop though. I'm thinking about removing the gord so that I can watch him better.
I ended up removing the top from my squirrels' nest box so I could keep an eye on them. Maybe you could cut a hole in the top so you can peek in on him?

Thank you all for all of your help. I think he's getting better, but I think it'll take some time for him to get used to his new diet and to get fully better.:jump
It will take weeks or months for him to fully recover, but he should be noticeably better in a week.