need advice on ida the squirrel

[thundersquirrel]

ida is a female fox squirrel, over twenty weeks old. we've had her for about two months. she was raised alone by a fellow rehabber, and when she got older we wanted to place her with our squirrels.

ida is unique because of her eye injury. she was found as a young'un getting her eye pecked at by a hawk. today, the eye is still there, but it's scarred and strangely colored.

we have debated euthanizing her for a long time due to her many problems. her eye had continuously opened in captivity, and at one point became slightly infected. in our care, her eye has been ok so far.

in addition, she is terribly antisocial. we tried to place her with two boys at first, but had to remove her because she wouldn't let them near the food. she has been alone until today, when we put her with two squirrels that we're wintering over.

once again she is being very antisocial, barking at the others and sticking to her box. also, her eye got re-injured today. we're not sure what caused it.

so my question to you all is- what do you think we should do with her? she's a friendly little squirrel to humans, but we can't keep her with other squirrels. we're worried releasing would mean a slow and painful death in the wild because of her eye, though my mom and i have seen wild squirrels do well with one eye.

help!

here are pictures.
the first is horrible, but you can see her eye color is abnormal.
the next two were taken tonight; her injured eye is closed up right now, which occasionally happens, but you can see more redness than usual because of the fresh rip.

[LynninIN]

Does she have any vision from that eye such as distinguishing light and dark? Does she have any other physical issues?

If Ida can't close that eye on her own, it probably feels scratchy and irritated to her. Some type of ophthalmic ointment once or twice a day would help. A lubricating eye drop like natural tears for humans would also help but need to be applied more frequently. I'm not sure the human versions would be okay for squirrels. Another option, if she is deemed NR and staying in human care, would be to suture the eyelid closed. Can you get a better picture of Ida's eye? 4skwerlz has an NR with an eye jury, this is a link to a thread with pictures.http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8313

Have you tried putting Ida's cage next to another squirrels cage so she can adjust slowly to others?

[Gabe]

Sometimes that happens when squirrels are imprinted when they are raised alone. They never adjust to their own kind, considering them the enemy. They don't socialize and never mate. This sounds like a good candidate for a pet squirrel.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I too think she would be better off as a pet than being in the wild. She won't enjoy herself much with only one eye and no squirrely friends, even if the eye never acts up. If she likes humans, I would just keep her and give her all the attention she wants.

[Lady Squirrelly]

When my Jack got his eye gouged the vet talked about removing it and sealing the lid shut to keep out infection. She said the fluid would leak out and leave an opening for dirt whick would lead to infection and death. It never did and he has no problems except vision loss.

Might this be a solution for the infections????

Just a thought.

She is beautiful. I just love the coloring of fox squirrels.

[thundersquirrel]

unfortunately, we wouldn't be able to keep her as a pet. we would probably give her back to the original rehabber, who really loves ida. if SHE kept ida as a pet, she'd have to lie about it and be very careful to hide her from others.

we did put ida in the cage nextdoor. i was encouraged for a while because occasionally she would be parallel to the others, trying to sniff them. she has had a few weeks to get to know them through bars.

but now she's quite the little terror...i woke up because of all the barking this morning.

she has no other injuries, but sometimes we worry the hawk attack affected her brain (she's a bit loopy). we can't tell how much she can see through that eye...i think she can see light and shadows, at least a little. she's not easy to sneak up on.

i think we should give her back to the old rehabber. ida is really not our squirrel to judge, because we never loved her like this woman did. besides, we have four other squirrels her age that demand our attention.

i will suggest eye drops to the other rehabber. i do hope she can keep ida as a pet before euthanasia, but that's not my decision to make.

[thundersquirrel]

here is a better picture of her eye;

[thundersquirrel]

trust me GB, i feel the same way. :( she really is a pecan-loving sweetheart.

[thundersquirrel]

well i think this rehabber is actually her best chance- this woman LOVES ida, and we promised her we would give ida back to her instead of euthanasia, if it ever came to that. and it has come to that, so we're going to give her back.

ida was raised by her, and i think she would be happy to be back, even if the woman makes the difficult choice of putting her down. but trust me, if ida stays with us, it'll likely end sadly.

[TexanSquirrel]

Aww Poor baby!:grouphug

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I also wished I lived closer and could take her. Perhaps if my travels take me to that area, I can do so. She'd have a happy home to herself.

[scoobysnack]

Gosh I covet a fox squirrel. Wish I was closer!

[rygel1hardt]

It has been my experience that unless baby squirrels are raised from a very young age together or are littermates they dont necessarily socialize well with each other. Squirrels are loners in the wild after they leave the nest and littermates, so why should one at 20 weeks of age automatically take up with other squirrels in a forced situaution? Just because she doesnt want to be with other squirrels of your choosing right now doesnt mean that she wont act normally in the wild or ever breed! Please dont sell this squirrel short as having eyesight only in one eye doesnt necessarily make her unreleasable either. Stacey

[justmare]

Wow, to consider euthanasia for an eye problem just blows me away. This squirrel deserves to live even if the original rehabber has to find a suitable home for her. There's just NO reason for euthanasia to even enter into this discussion. I'm floored. :shakehead

[thundersquirrel]

well nobody WANTS her to die, but we have laws. as rehabilitators, our licenses would be taken away in a nano-second if we were to keep a squirrel as a pet without a permit.

the social situation for ida won't keep her from release, but her eye continuously becomes injured. ida received a fresh batch of bloody eye today, we have no idea how. this eye has become infected before, and we're worried it will happen again.

i have to go, we're moving her now. i'll come back later with more updates.

[justmare]

How about surgically removing the eye and hence the problem?

And if need be, find her a home with someone that is NOT a licensed rehabber. People have illegal pets all over the country. No healthy animal should die because of stupid laws!

[muffinsquirrel]

well nobody WANTS her to die, but we have laws. as rehabilitators, our licenses would be taken away in a nano-second if we were to keep a squirrel as a pet without a permit.




I feel like thundersquirrel is getting a bad rap on this one, and I think it is because some of us are typing before we think this through. The risk of losing your license is a very real fear, and would be devastating. People don't rehab animals for fun, or as a hobby.....it is a passion, a necessity, an uncontrollable 'must do' in life. It is who we are, and without it, something inside of us dies. There are rules that rehabbers must follow, for their own safety, and for the safety of the animals. Whether the rules make sense to us or not, whether we like them or not, they still have to be followed. I think that putting down an animal just because it can not make it in the wild is very wrong. Allowing people to hunt and kill an animal, but considering them criminals for keeping that same animal as a 'pet' is very wrong. If you get right down to it, there are probably a lot more stupid laws than there are good ones. But we still have to abide by them, or risk the consequences. If thundersquirrel kept Ida, and was found out, she would lose her license and many many animals would suffer because of the lack of care she could have given it. Sometimes you are put in a position of having to do what you don't like in order to continue doing what is right, and needs to be done. If you don't think the laws are fair, or right, then go to work to change them - write letters, make phone calls, send emails, ask questions of political candidates before you vote for them. The laws won't be changed overnight, or even in a few months or years. But eventually, if enough people think they should be changed, they will be.

Thundersquirrel, it makes no difference if I agree or disagree with your decision on Ida.....I am just glad that I don't have to be the one making the decision. As long as you do what you know is right, it will be the right decision for this time and this case and these particular circumstances.

OK - I'll just go put my soap box away now.

muffinsquirrel

[thundersquirrel]

thank you, muffinsquirrel. i'd like to add that in my case, my "license" is the license of about twenty other volunteers, and so literally hundreds of animals would be without help if the license was taken away. it truly is scary, especially when we bend the rules already in other areas.

we ended up moving ida tonight, actually (we wanted to give them one more day to make peace- it didn't happen). she's happy in her own cage now.

she's not absolutely going to die- we're still deciding. the fact that she's antisocial won't be her downfall in the wild. and her eye injuries don't seem to bother her much, and they heal quickly.

a NEW problem has emerged, and that's her affinity for humans. she lets me touch her, which is really bad. so our greatest task now is to put that wild fear in her (which will NOT be fun).

we'll only feed her at night from now on. when i pass her cage, i'm going to hiss if she comes forward. i might even chase her around the cage with my hand. :shakehead i feel bad, but she cannot be a pet. i'll do what i have to so she can go back home into the wild. it's time for tough love. :get_em

[Sissy]

I feel like thundersquirrel is getting a bad rap on this one, and I think it is because some of us are typing before we think this through. The risk of losing your license is a very real fear, and would be devastating. People don't rehab animals for fun, or as a hobby.....it is a passion, a necessity, an uncontrollable 'must do' in life. It is who we are, and without it, something inside of us dies. There are rules that rehabbers must follow, for their own safety, and for the safety of the animals. Whether the rules make sense to us or not, whether we like them or not, they still have to be followed. I think that putting down an animal just because it can not make it in the wild is very wrong. Allowing people to hunt and kill an animal, but considering them criminals for keeping that same animal as a 'pet' is very wrong. If you get right down to it, there are probably a lot more stupid laws than there are good ones. But we still have to abide by them, or risk the consequences. If thundersquirrel kept Ida, and was found out, she would lose her license and many many animals would suffer because of the lack of care she could have given it. Sometimes you are put in a position of having to do what you don't like in order to continue doing what is right, and needs to be done. If you don't think the laws are fair, or right, then go to work to change them - write letters, make phone calls, send emails, ask questions of political candidates before you vote for them. The laws won't be changed overnight, or even in a few months or years. But eventually, if enough people think they should be changed, they will be.

Thundersquirrel, it makes no difference if I agree or disagree with your decision on Ida.....I am just glad that I don't have to be the one making the decision. As long as you do what you know is right, it will be the right decision for this time and this case and these particular circumstances.

OK - I'll just go put my soap box away now.

muffinsquirrel

:goodpost Sad but true.

[justmare]

The laws won't be changed overnight, or even in a few months or years. But eventually, if enough people think they should be changed, they will be.
muffinsquirrel

I can't agree with that statement. As stupid as they are, some laws will never be changed. Just look at the fact that there are over a million pet ferrets living in the state of California, but California will not make them legal. Year after year, they keep that stupid law intact.

Ida deserves to live. She's a healthy animal. Whether or not she lives in the wild or as a pet she deserves to live. I can't feel any stronger about that than I do. If she has a natural affinity towards humans then it's not fair to TRY to make her dislike them. SOMEONE will take her in as a pet and that should be the goal for her -- find her a home! If it's bending/breaking the rehabbers law, oh well. The authorities don't have to know. Do it carefully.

Maybe I'm in the wrong place. I already avoid many thread categories because I can't hear horror stories anymore. I have way too many in my head from my years of rescuing domestic rats that will never go away. My heart hurts from all of the pain and suffering I've seen over the years. Now I'm hearing it here. :(

[Critter_Queen]

Ida deserves to live. She's a healthy animal. Whether or not she lives in the wild or as a pet she deserves to live. I can't feel any stronger about that than I do.

No one here would disagree with you on that. Unfortunately, though not all NRs can be found homes. And not all one-eyed, human-tamed squirrels can survive - even in an urban environment. Believe me, I made that mistake and hearing my neighbor tell the story of his dogs ripping "my" squirrel to bits is enough to keep me from releasing another one ever again. (one of those dogs ate antifreeze this past week - his owner's fault - and died...I hope they don't get another one!! :pissed)

I suggest if you feel that strongly about it, you find a way to get her from Michigan to California and make sure she's kept alive...

Don't make someone who has to actually make the decision and live with it feel any worse than I'm SURE she already does. Rehabbers don't rehab to euthanize. We do it out of LOVE. :Love_Icon

[Secret Squirrel]

Hey TS do you think Ida is banging her bad eye on the hardware cloth that is surrounding her nest box. Since she cant really see well from the hawk injury.... maybe her judgment is off and can't navigate the opening to her box. Try removing it and see if she gets a little better.
Just a obsevation.....:)

I have found the best way to wild up a human friendly squirrel is to give the squirrel to another rehabber to release. The cage and location changes is helpful along with having a complete stranger (aka rehabber )
in the picture seems to change the tame squirrel in a hurry.
I wish you the best in this situation....and for Ida too.:grouphug

[Lady Squirrelly]

I have a question. What kind of Fox squirrel is she???

Is she a Sherman's fox???

[justmare]

Believe me, I wish I could take her, but I already have an illegal squirrel and she's extremely territorial. All I'm saying is there HAS to be some way to find her a home with someone in that area. Euthanasia shouldn't even be a consideration for a healthy animal!

Even a rehabber shouldn't consider death for a healthy animal. I've rescued thousands of rats in the past and would not consider euthanasia as an alternative unless the animal was truly suffering. They were always given whatever they needed -- medical/surgical care and a loving home -- even if that loving home had to be my own. Even the jerks found a loving home. Fred, the current rescue rat I have is a biter. On December 26 he was neutered to (hopefully) fix his aggression problem. Never would I have considered euthanasia AND if neutering him doesn't calm him down I still won't consider euthanasia. He'll live out his life with me in comfort and with love. Every animal deserves to live!

I have a lot of respect for anyone who loves animals enough to rescue and rehabilitate, but when someone considers euthanasia for a healthy animal because of a stupid law or as a matter of convenience I believe that is just wrong.

I'm going to take myself out of this argument and avoid this thread (maybe TSB altogether). I've dealt with this stuff for too long and seriously can't have this kind of sadness in my life anymore.

[ravenlaws32]

Wow, to consider euthanasia for an eye problem just blows me away. This squirrel deserves to live even if the original rehabber has to find a suitable home for her. There's just NO reason for euthanasia to even enter into this discussion. I'm floored. :shakehead



rehabber here and fully agree , the word euthanasia should even be in this thread. give her back to original rehabber or find someone closer who love her as a pet , she is a darling , if i was not so many million miles away i would be knocking on your door to take her, do not euthanize.... do not underestimate a squirrels ability to overcome and adapt in bad situations.

do not take this the wrong way ,but im tired of hearing stories of people who take on animals but then down the road say ummmm i made mistake. you might not be one of these people but im sick and tried of people adopting dog,cats rats , whatever animal it is and then down the road looking for a bail out or a throw out along side the road. there are so many unwanted animals in this world and royally pisses me off . if you cannot give the love, attention , support, of an animal then do not get one - simple as that, i know it sounds mean but im tired of folks throwing animals away.

like i said this was a general rant not pointed to the op here. that might have been a total different situation .

i have had to report i dunno how many countless cases of dogs and cats roaming around and or being hit . i also work on board of local no kill shelter here and seeing the death ,mistreatment , and overall treatment is just so appaling.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

I gotta stick up for TS on this one. When you become a rehabber, it totally changes your life. You commit yourself to helping out those tiny little tykes that can't help themselves. It becomes who you are and you can't imagine not being able to do it. I am already going crazy waiting for the first spring pinkies to come in and it is only January! I couldn't imagine not being able to take care of them. So, you do have to weigh your decisions very carefully and ask yourself is this worth losing my license and the ability to care for all those tiny babies that wouldn't survive without me. Thundersquirrel hasn't made any decisions yet and she certainly doesn't want to have Ida euthanized, but sometimes it is a decision that has to be made. If someone weren't there for Ida when she was being attacked by the hawk, she wouldn't even be alive today, so don't be hard on the rehabbers. The last thing she is doing is abandoning Ida. If TS gives this squirrel to someone else to be kept as a pet, she could still get into trouble, probably even more trouble than if she kept her herself. If that person is caught and says that they got the squirrel from TS she could lose her license. It is a risk that she has to decide if she wants to take or not. I wouldn't want to be in her position and I sure won't make it any harder on her than it already is. I have been there and it isn't a fun place to be. I will support TS in any decision she makes. :grouphug

[4skwerlz]

I have to agree with SR&BT on this. I'm sure TS will try to either rehab/release Ida or find her a forever home, but if neither is possible, what is she supposed to do? A rehabber's job isn't to run a shelter for homeless animals--it is to save as many lives as possible, and rehab and release them. If a rehabber kept all the NRs they came across, they would soon be "full-up" and unable to save the dozens of lives that they do every year. There ARE a few people who maintain facilities to keep NR animals, like "Lovely Lita's Sheltering Tree" in Florida. I'm sure she would welcome a donation, as her work is very expensive and time-consuming.

The issue of abandoned dogs and cats has NOTHING to do with this situation, IMO.

[ravenlaws32]

:poke 4skwerlz , listen im not gonna get into a moan and pissing on the topic because it benefits no one, but you know what they say about opinions... and like everyone else i stated mine like it or not , either way i value good opinions along with bad ones. maybe you missed the point in my post about general rant not pointed at op but oh well .

the main thing here is ida , and her life being saved .period

[ravenlaws32]

I can't agree with that statement. As stupid as they are, some laws will never be changed. Just look at the fact that there are over a million pet ferrets living in the state of California, but California will not make them legal. Year after year, they keep that stupid law intact.

Ida deserves to live. She's a healthy animal. Whether or not she lives in the wild or as a pet she deserves to live. I can't feel any stronger about that than I do. If she has a natural affinity towards humans then it's not fair to TRY to make her dislike them. SOMEONE will take her in as a pet and that should be the goal for her -- find her a home! If it's bending/breaking the rehabbers law, oh well. The authorities don't have to know. Do it carefully.

Maybe I'm in the wrong place. I already avoid many thread categories because I can't hear horror stories anymore. I have way too many in my head from my years of rescuing domestic rats that will never go away. My heart hurts from all of the pain and suffering I've seen over the years. Now I'm hearing it here. :(


agreed :goodpost :goodpost

i mean if she love humans and was apet to begin with in this whole scenario then that t what should play out , as in original post stated took her in to live with other squirrels ,,but then they did not get along does not mean lets TRY to make her wild again and hate people and or release her into the unknown wild or even worse kill her, she did not make any choices leading up to this, humans did . im sorry im a licensed rehabber but my feeling on this from what i have read is --ok this is not working for like i thought now lets figure out a way of disposal. im sorry if that offends anyone but thats my opinion on the matter. sometimes responsiblities go wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out from the norm , but we do what is right.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

The squirrel wasn't Thundersquirrels to start off with. Another rehabber raised Ida and then gave her to Thundersquirrel so she could put her with other squirrels and get her ready for release. It is not like Thundersquirrel has had her the whole time, gave her too much love and attention, making her nonreleaseable and then just turned her back of Ida and is going to put her to sleep or release her knowing she won't survive. Thundersquirrel took her in trying to do a good thing for her and help her learn to be a squirrel so she could go free. It is not going according to plan and now TS is wondering if she will ever be a happy squirrel out in the wild. If TS were looking of a way to "dispose" of Ida, she would have just released her in her current condition of having an eye injury and having no fear of humans and let her die a horrible death in the wild. No, TS is not doing that, she is trying to think of what is best for Ida in this terrible scenerio.

[4skwerlz]

Ravenlaws, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. We get a bit protective of our long-time rehabber members because what they do is so valuable. We know TS well and know she wouldn't "discard" an animal, so my tail got a bit fluffed out, that's all. Sorry if I said anything I shouldn't have.

Good rehabbers like you and TS (and the TSB rehabbers are the best) need all the support they can get because the job is hard and there isn't much appreciation out there. I do appreciate your depth of feeling--that's what makes a good rehabber. :bowdown :bowdown

[thundersquirrel]

wow, there's a lot of opinions on this. and i want you all to know that i welcome other peoples' views, as you've all said them politely and with reason. :peace

rehabbing presents some very difficult decisions. sometimes, euthanasia is the kindest gift we can give to wildlife, to end their suffering. :shakehead

ida isn't suffering, i can tell she's not. she is a sweetheart, and i DO NOT want her to die. :nono i know other rehabbers who would've had her dead by now- my mother and i have a lot of voices, far more stern than the board, who believe ida should be euthanized.

at this point, my mother and i are opting to wait. the rehabber that loves ida has coyotes, and our senior rehabber thinks she would do better in a city setting with louder, less skilled predators.

so by releasing her here, we are taking a risk. one of our healthy squirrels was recently killed by the neighbor's dog. would ida stand a chance with only one eye? there are TONS of other squirrels in our yard. would she be able to stay in our yard, where it's safe, or would she be chased away? we have some very large hawks around here, and cats. is it more fair to give her a chance to survive against all these predators, or is it more fair to give her a hopefully painless death right now? :dono

ida being a pet is not an option for us, and it's not an option for several rehabbers out there. and in all honesty, if one of you were close enough to take her, i'm not sure i could convince my mother to hand her over.

but please, don't worry. euthanasia is not a decision we make lightly, and so it is not likely that ida will go that way. we see how healthy she is, and we respect that.

about her eye- i'm fairly certain it was being injured because the others were chasing her around, and she had no time to look out for the wires in the cage. now that she's alone, i expect it won't happen again.