I think my baby may need some help

[Miss Milo's Mom]

Hi,
I'm new to this board. I thought I have ready everything possible on the internet about raising a squirrel until I found this site. I have learned more from TSB than anywhere and would like to thank you all.
I got Milo out of my cat's mouth when he was about 2 weeks old. I took him to a Vet that didn't know anything about squirrels. She told me to give him puppy formula. I had already researched the internet and learned that the formula should be puppy Milk (which I used). Anyway to make a long story short he is now 4 1/2 months old. He has been very happy, loving and playful. He romes free in my house and goes to work with me. I have a 6 by 7 outdoor cage that he stays a few hours in maybe once a week .Not so much now that it is getting colder though.
I am concerned now because I have noticed him losing hair on his tail. I noticed when I hold him or rub him he grunts a lot. Sometimes when he is climbing all over me, he gets his nails stuck and can't get them out. Also I noticed that his back legs aren't moving so good sometimes. From everything I have read I think he may have early signs of MBD. I hope, if he does, it is in it's early stage. He runs and jumps and plays all the time, but these changes in him make me worry. I just put in a Full Spectrum Light today. How many hours a day does he need the FSL? I read at least one hour of sunlight or FSL, and then I read at least 8 hours of FSL. Does anyone know which one is right? The next question I have is about the Prime supplement. I just ordered it off the internet. I was told to use Avimin liquid mineral supplement for birds. I just purchased this and have added it to his water. I have also started putting Premium Multi Drops vitamins in his water. Can I put both in his water at the same time? When I get the Prime supplement will I need both a vitamin and mineral supplement or does the Prime have both vitamins and minerals in it?

I had no idea about the calcium/Phos ratio until TBS. I have been giving him to many nuts. He does eat kale, brocolli, grapes, sweet potatoes, green beans, craisins, cabbage, dried bananna chips, blueberries, blackberries, oranges, etc. But as I have so recently learned the nuts took away his calcium. I feel so bad right now you wouldn't believe it. Please help me help him. I love him with every bit of my heart and soul.

[scoobysnack]

Hi there tripleM. You are on the right track. I'm no expert but I'm sure some of the rehabbers will catch on to this thread and guide you along. Just wanted to say you sound like you're on the ball.

I leave Scooby's FSL on most of the day. Kinda sunrise to sunset like the real world. I make sure she eats her monkey biscuit and rodent block before she gets too many other treats. She gets one or two nuts at most daily. oh.. and .. here's the embarrassing part... she still takes a bit of formula at night for a bedtime snack :flash3

Hopefully someone with far more experience will be on to give you some more information. Best of luck, you have your baby's best interests at heart.

Ohhh ya know what Scooby likes?? She likes the orange flavored tums. That's pure calcium carbonate. Nothing harmful. I have heartburn most of the time, I keep a few on my headboard. She finds them and chews on them. Not a whole one but she takes a good few nibbles. Then I have prechewed tums for later that night LOL

[Miss Milo's Mom]

Thank you guys.
I have put him on a heating pad earlier today for about 2 hours where he could get on and off of it. I crushed up a calcium pill I take, but it contains vitamin D also. I spread it on an Avacado. He didnt' really like it. I gave him a tums also. He did seem to like that. He has been on the FSL just about all day too.

Milo will not eat the Zupreme monkey biscuits or the rodent block. I have tried even before he opened his eyes. I still try, but he won't eat them. I leave them in the fridge so they won't go bad.

I really appreciate being able to chat with people who love these guys as much as I do. I know Im not alone now. Thanks.

[TexanSquirrel]

:Welcome Good luck with the little guy. Be sure to keep us posted!

[island rehabber]

MMM you've gotten great advice here. I think between the Tums, the Full Spectrum Light and cutting down on the nuts your boy will be well on the road to recovery. Good for you for spotting the early signs of MBD! Just be strong when it comes to withholding those nuts from him -- they can be very persuasive and make us break down and break open the pecans :nono :D. Oh, and :Welcome to The Squirrel Board -- we're very glad you're here.

[Mars]

:wave123 :Welcome :wave123

[Miss Milo's Mom]

One article I read said to crush up a calcium suppliment containing Vitamin D. It states to give 1/8 tsp once a day for 7 days. For the 2nd week give dosage for 5 days, for the 3rd week give dosage for 4 days. It states to cut some slits in an avacodo and rub the calcium in. Can anyone tell me if this sounds right or should I just give some tums, FSL, and calcium rich veggies?

[MyBushyTail]

I do not know about the crushed calcium with the vit D so I will leave that for the experts here to answer.

Just a few things I give my lil boy for calcium.

1-He chews on the grape mineral treat that I purchased at petsmart

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...rch&keepsr= 1

2-He also will occassionally chew on Spring Valley natural calcium 600mg dietary supplement, which I bought at walmart.

3-I use 2 tiny drops of the pure liquid calcium in his 4 ounces of water, and change it daily.

The reason I am using the liquid calcium is because he is such a selective eater and barely will eat any greens and is very very picky about the other fruits and veggies. Though lately he has gotten better with eating dandelion greens.

Also I was told that too much calcium can harm them too, so be careful.

[4skwerlz]

Hi there,

I hope the information you've been given so far has helped. Below I've posted a treatment plan based on the diet info we have and also similar to a plan used recently for another squirrel with severe MBD who is now recovering:


Milo's Treatment Plan
Week One

1. Eliminate all nuts and seeds and other unhealthy foods, and feed only foods from the Diet List.

2. Provide an emergency calcium source. I usually don't like adding vitamins to water simply because you have no idea how much they are getting--not enough or too much. It is easier to control dosage with plain calcium carbonate pills (600 mg) for nibbling, and to be crushed and sprinkled on all foods. However, whatever works. The important thing is to get the calcium and other nutrients into Milo. Blackstrap molasses is another excellent source of emergency calcium. The normal calcium requirement for a squirrel is approximately 2,500 mg per week. In a squirrel with MBD, you should try to double that to 5,000 mg for the first week and see how Milo does.

3. Provide sources of Vitamin D: Time outdoors in his cage on a sunny day (but in the shade) provides by far the most beneficial light. However, at this time of year, this is only true if you live in the Southern half of the country. In addition, Milo will need full-spectrum light indoors all day long until he is well. Plus all the Vit D rich foods you can give him: mushrooms, eggs, dairy products (especially yogurt--make sure the label says the yogurt contains Vit D).

4. Provide sources of Vitamin C: Oranges are good, but red or green bell peppers are the highest.

5. The foods Milo is already eating are fine: "kale, brocolli, grapes, sweet potatoes, green beans, craisins, cabbage, dried bananna chips, blueberries, blackberries, oranges." However, for now you should try to feed Milo only foods from the Diet List (high-calcium/low phosphorus).

6. Introduce a different rodent chow: try KayTee Forti-Diet for Rats and Mice. If Milo won't eat the Forti-Diet, try the KayTee Healthy Bits for Rabbits and Guinea Pigs. It is similar to a kibbled food, but tastier, and is fortified with a lot vitamins and minerals. It might be a good "transition food" to a rodent chow.

Please keep us posted on how Milo is doing, on which foods he will or will not eat, as his treatment can be adjusted accordingly.

If you have any questions at all, feel free to PM me or anyone else! I feel sure that little can get better if he is treated immediately. You should see a difference within a few days. :grouphug

[Miss Milo's Mom]

Thank you for all of the wonderful advice.
I have eliminated all nuts and seeds. I went out and bought all the leafy green veggies My local grocery store had to offer. He really only likes the kale. He hasn't eaten much today. I think he is going into NUT withdrawls. I did get him some yogurt, but he didn't like that either. I will try a different one. He did eat a tums today. Half this morning and the rest this afternoon. I hope this is not too much. Im going to get the calcium only vitamin for him shortly. Is the mushrooms the kind you get from your local grocery store? I gave him a hard boiled egg, but he won't eat that. He does nibble a little on the orange and a red pepper. I will also try to find the KayTee Forti-Diet for rats and mice and the bits for rabbits and Guinea pigs. The diet list seems short. Can I still let him eat the leafy green veggies like Kale? He is still grunting a lot. Im not sure if this means he is sore or just grunting. Does anyone know?
Thanks again and all suggestions are very welcomed and appreciated.

[island rehabber]

Thank you for all of the wonderful advice.
I have eliminated all nuts and seeds. I went out and bought all the leafy green veggies My local grocery store had to offer. He really only likes the kale. He hasn't eaten much today. I think he is going into NUT withdrawls. I did get him some yogurt, but he didn't like that either. I will try a different one. He did eat a tums today. Half this morning and the rest this afternoon. I hope this is not too much. Im going to get the calcium only vitamin for him shortly. Is the mushrooms the kind you get from your local grocery store? I gave him a hard boiled egg, but he won't eat that. He does nibble a little on the orange and a red pepper. I will also try to find the KayTee Forti-Diet for rats and mice and the bits for rabbits and Guinea pigs. The diet list seems short. Can I still let him eat the leafy green veggies like Kale? He is still grunting a lot. Im not sure if this means he is sore or just grunting. Does anyone know?
Thanks again and all suggestions are very welcomed and appreciated.

MMM if he gets his full spectrum lighting and eats kale and orange and a bit of the Tums every day he should be doing really well in a few weeks. Besides those of course you can give him raw sweet potato, snow pea pods, green beans, blueberries, bits of apple, and of course the rodent chow. The little piggy grunt noises they make often mean urgency or frustration -- he could be saying "gimme a nut!" or "let me out of here" or "hey let's play...NOW!"

[texaspeg49]

Hi, I'm new here, how to I make a new post? thanks

[Miss Milo's Mom]

That sounds great. I just got back from the store. He didn't like any of the yogurt I bought. Didn't eat the mushrooms and didn't like the tast of Molassas. I did pick up some 600mg "Calcium" only vitamins. Would the calcium vitamin be better for him than the tums? I know he will eat the tums. Don't think i should try the calcium vitamin today since he already ate most of the tums.

I have a whole buffet spread out on my counter with all high calcium foods. He is just being a little stuburn.

[island rehabber]

To texaspeg49: A good way to start out is to go to the "Introduce Yourself" section -- you'll find it on the main Forum page if you scroll down a little. Click on that and then "New Thread"....you can name your thread whatever you choose and tell us a little about yourself, your squirrels if you have any, etc. Oh, and :Welcome to the Squirrel Board!

[4skwerlz]

That sounds great. I just got back from the store. He didn't like any of the yogurt I bought. Didn't eat the mushrooms and didn't like the tast of Molassas. I did pick up some 600mg "Calcium" only vitamins. Would the calcium vitamin be better for him than the tums? I know he will eat the tums. Don't think i should try the calcium vitamin today since he already ate most of the tums.

I have a whole buffet spread out on my counter with all high calcium foods. He is just being a little stuburn.

Yes, the mushrooms are the regular white kinds from the grocery store.

As far as the calcium, just keep track of how much you are giving him. Did you see the post I made for you earlier today? Tums are fine (the regular kind). If he will eat Tums he will probably eat the plain pill, but whatever works.

It takes time for them to learn to like new foods. Be patient. Yes he will go into "nut withdrawal" but it won't last long. For introducing new foods, try to use the foods they like to get them to try the ones they don't like. For example, if he likes peanut butter, then put a tiny bit on the food you are trying to get him to eat. Try mashing up his favorite fruit with just a little yogurt in it. Try dipping a piece of mushroom in a little water, then rolling it in some finely crushed nuts. You get the idea....

[Miss Milo's Mom]

It's been 2 days now and Milo is running around as usual, but he is not eating good and seems to sleep a bit more. I have done everything everyone has sugested. I mixed up some scramble eggs with shell, small bits of acorn, and a Calcium pill crushed up. He would not touch it. I can get him to chew a little of the calcium pill and a little of the flavored tums, but not much of it. He won't even eat his kale and he loved it before. What should I do?

[Miss Milo's Mom]

Thanks. I'll keep trying.

[Squirrelly]

How is Milo doing?:grouphug

[Miss Milo's Mom]

He has had his best day today. He is still grunting a lot especially when he is climbing around or when i pick him up. He is loving the Esibalic milk again. I have been giving him around 7 to 8 cc's every 4 hours or around that. I crush up about 1/2 of a 600 mg calcium pill and put it on his blueberries. Should I give him a whole 600 mg of calcium plus his formula a day? I don't want to over do it.
The best part was him nibbling on some rodent chow today. He would never touch it before. I hope he starts liking it. He ate better this evening. For some reason he eats better if I feed him on top of the fridge instead of on my kitchen counter. He wanted to be held and loved on all day for some reason. I didn't mind one bit! I did take him off the vitamins and minerals in his water since he is drinking Esibalic again. I'm scared he might be getting to much of the other vitamins. Do you agree?
I really appreciate you asking about him. That means a lot to me. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks

[Squirrelly]

I'm very glad to hear that Milo is doing better. Unfortunately though, I'm not a rehabber so can't answer your question about the vitamins. Alas, I'm just a squirrel-o-holic who is happy to hear that Milo is improving. Please keep us updated, OK? :thumbsup :thankyou

[4skwerlz]

...He is loving the Esibalic milk again. I have been giving him around 7 to 8 cc's every 4 hours or around that. I crush up about 1/2 of a 600 mg calcium pill and put it on his blueberries. Should I give him a whole 600 mg of calcium plus his formula a day? I don't want to over do it. .I did take him off the vitamins and minerals in his water since he is drinking Esibalic again. I'm scared he might be getting to much of the other vitamins. Do you agree?

Of course no one really knows for sure about treating MBD, but we try to use common sense plus the experience of what has worked before.

1/2 of a calcium pill per day would give him 2,100 mg of calcium in addition to what he gets in the formula and in his food. Normally we'd want to double that amount for MBD, but since he's eating a LOT of formula, that's probably okay. You could double it if you want and see how he does, but only for 1 week. Watch and see what seems to work. As long as he continues to improve rapidly, you know you're doing the right things.

So glad he's feeling better!!:thumbsup

[Miss Milo's Mom]

Thanks for all the great advice. I will keep you posted.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Yes it is possible that he can get too much calcium.

He has had his best day today. He is still grunting a lot especially when he is climbing around or when i pick him up. He is loving the Esibalic milk again. I have been giving him around 7 to 8 cc's every 4 hours or around that.
Aren't they great animals ....they know what their bodies need and they will eat what they need!! Good for you and him. If hes taking the esbillac and dark green veggies that should be good ..dont want to over do, probably can skip the other pills. Also the nice thing about the formula he's also getting the Vit d so he's good to go. Good luck he's a handsome guy.:Love_Icon

[Miss Milo's Mom]

Thank you.

[roto]

I gave my squirrel 500 mg of calcium per day for two days and he got
very, very sick. Stopped the treatment and he sprang back quickly.

Now he's just on a good diet including rodent blocks and is doing great.
He's very active, is outside most of the time and seems very happy.

I've since read that too much calcium can actually hinder the healing
process. The abstract that I read stated no more than 20mg per day.

There's alot of information out there and many different opinions. I just
wanted to share my experience and put in my two cents.

Glad your little guy is doing well. Here's to many long happy days!


:)

[wildhearthoney]

Stop the nuts and seed right away. Get calcium in him asap! Put him on a rodent block/chow diet. He can have veggies, but 65% of his nutrition should be rodent chow 25% veggies 10% fruit. Find a vet that is qualified for exotics. Keep in contact with TSB. Good luck!

[island rehabber]

Stop the nuts and seed right away. Get calcium in him asap! Put him on a rodent block/chow diet. He can have veggies, but 65% of his nutrition should be rodent chow 25% veggies 10% fruit. Find a vet that is qualified for exotics. Keep in contact with TSB. Good luck!

wildhearthoney, your response is right on and absolutely perfect. Only thing is, this thread is over two years old. :) The date of each post in a thread is in the upper left corner, over the poster's name. No problem -- happens to newbies all the time. :D