Ryleigh maybe MBD????

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Thanks again to all for your help. Unfortunately, Ryleigh is no better. Last night she had an episode of diarrhea. Only one, but really nasty odor!! She's been pretty listless. She did get up enough to drink, and it seemed like she couldn't get enough (water). I'm afraid that I may have found out too late about the full-spectrum light. I did know that they needed a certain amount of sunlight for proper growth, but until I found this site I thought that the light from the window and skylight was sufficient. How quickly does MBD develop and what are the symptoms? I plan on getting a full-spectrum light immediately, but what are they exactly? Are they the "grow lights" for plants, or something else? She'll get up for a short period now, but you can tell that she only wants to sleep. Poor baby. As for her bedding, it's not actually cedar chips but alpine shavings. They seem pretty soft and totally unscented. It's snowing pretty hard here today, so I can't bring her out into the sunlight, and not sure what the roads will be like for me to go and get a full spectrum light. Hmm.

[Critter_Queen]

It doesn't take long for a squirrel to get sick without proper diet and sunlight.

Try enticing her with a LITTLE mollasses, it's high in calcium and may help her appetite and help her feel better.

What do you feed her? Be specific and please give amounts given daily, in what order, etc. Diet is SO IMPORTANT.

A full-spectrum light is just that. FULL SPECTRUM. It MUST say that on the package or it's not the right thing. There are lots out there that say "natural" and "daylight" but they aren't the right one unless it says full-spectrum. Can be found at home-improvement stores in the efficiency bulb section or in the bird section of some pet stores. They run about $4-8.

give her a supplemental heat source (one she can't grab and chew on if electrical)...when squirrels don't feel well they need heat to help them get better.

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

Thanks again to all for your help. Unfortunately, Ryleigh is no better. Last night she had an episode of diarrhea. Only one, but really nasty odor!! She's been pretty listless. She did get up enough to drink, and it seemed like she couldn't get enough (water). I'm afraid that I may have found out too late about the full-spectrum light. I did know that they needed a certain amount of sunlight for proper growth, but until I found this site I thought that the light from the window and skylight was sufficient. How quickly does MBD develop and what are the symptoms? I plan on getting a full-spectrum light immediately, but what are they exactly? Are they the "grow lights" for plants, or something else? She'll get up for a short period now, but you can tell that she only wants to sleep. Poor baby. As for her bedding, it's not actually cedar chips but alpine shavings. They seem pretty soft and totally unscented. It's snowing pretty hard here today, so I can't bring her out into the sunlight, and not sure what the roads will be like for me to go and get a full spectrum light. Hmm.
I do remember..CEDAR..chips..are not good for their LUNGS..especially..when they are young pups..I 'd imagine it cant be good for them as adults...
as for your other questionsI'll let others answer them...(FOR now.....I'd log..off..and GO,GET THE FULL SPECTRUM LIGHT BULB..right away..NOW...go to any pet store..and ask for a full spect light bulb..AND get it on your sweety..asap....!!:grouphug :alright.gif :grouphug

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Thanks! I was looking at a site for MBD, and they recommend one for reptiles(?) I don't know if it will be too strong or not. Can it be? Also, do you know if a store like PetSmart or Petco would have any calcium supplements or vitamins? They don't even have "regular" squirrel food, or monkey chow, so she's pretty much been eating ferret food in her bowl, as well as being fed small pieces of (unsugared) dried fruit, raw broccoli, grapes, plain cheerios, yogurt, acorns, cashews, almonds, peanuts, raw baby carrots, all throughout the day. I was trying to mimic her natural eating habits by feeding her very small amounts throughout the day and keeping the ferret food full in her bowl b/c it's fortified. From reading here, I know the ferret food was probably a no-no. I looked at the ingredients though, and it seemed like it would be okay since it only has vegetables and vitamins, and until last night she seemed to be incredibly healthy (bright eyes, very playful, formed stools, shiny-sleek fur, muscular, etc...). I'm not sure what could have happened. I've been racking my brain. There was some potpourri sitting out that she tries to eat, so maybe she ate some when I wasn't looking. :dono

[pamela lee]

I would think ferret food would be too high in protein. Try one of the rodent blocks like they sell for rats. You can get the Full Spectrum light from pet stores in the reptile department.

[squiggs]

:grouphug :grouphug Good Luck

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Thanks! I've already printed out the "menu" that you sent earlier! I will absolutely go immediately and get all of these things for her. I'm so heartsick to think that she's suffering b/c I didn't do right by her. I have 3 children, and it feels the same to me as if one of them were sick. I've had other animals before, but none of them had ever completely stolen my heart so quickly as she did. I hope that whatever is wrong with her will just pass through her system, and that I can start her under the light w/ the improved diet before any harm's been done. She's only been cooped up inside for a couple of weeks without direct sunlight. Before that, I took her outside daily. Does MBD cause diarrhea and vomiting? From what I've been reading, it only (as if it wasn't enough), causes fatigue, pain, and poor bone development and even as late as 6 pm last night her favorite thing to do was to hang upside down by her toes on her cat tree. She was very active until all of a sudden................she wasn't. I'm thinking that if it was something she ate then she probably wouldn't have diarrhea(??). Is there a virus or something that we could have brought home that could be causing this?

[Critter_Queen]

She may have eaten some of the potpurri...especially if she is lacking something in her diet. Squirrels will lick and chew odd things to try to gain what their bodies are telling them they need.

PRIME is an EXCELLENT supplement and will even provide D3 until her own body gets to making it from the FS Light. You can find it in the bird section at Petsmart...Petco doesn't carry it.

Good luck!!!

[TexanSquirrel]

Good luck with the little one!

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Great news! She seems to be 100% recovered!!! Playing, running, climbing, pouncing, etc... I am SO HAPPY!!!! I'm still running out to Petco or Petsmart for the food, supplements, cuttlebone, full-spectrum light, the "works." I don't want this to ever happen again, and if she does get sick I hope it won't be because I haven't provided and cared well for her. She just jumped full on my chest!!!! My "delicate" little girl is back to her feisty self. Any other suggestions on what I should get for her to prepare for an emergency? We are having heavy snow now, and I want to get stocked for the winter. :wahoo

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Oh yeah!!! You hear all the time about protecting yourself from the sun, and how you can get dangerous rays even driving in your car, that you forget that it's actually very beneficial. I am so glad I found this board. I still haven't determined what she could have eaten (if that was the case), but I'm going to at least prevent the things that I can. :thumbsup

[My Little Trouble]

I'm so relieved to read that Ryleigh is feeling so much better. :D I'm very happy for you,
I know you must have been extremely frightened.

It really does sound as though she may have ingested something that made her ill,
starting with the vomiting and working it's way through her system
to cause the diarrhea before she finally started to feel better.

I'm sure you have already gotten rid of the porpourri . . . :tilt and maybe a few other things?
Gosh, it only takes one episode to scare the be-jeebers outta ya!!

I just recently found TSB too, and I'm currently trying to improve my little fellow's diet -
we haven't had any problems yet, but thanks to all of the wonderful folks and information here,
I am much more aware of what can happen, and just how quickly,
I sure don't want to take any risks. :shakehead

[squiggs]

I am so happy for you and your baby, you are gonna be a great squirrel mommie:thumbsup

[4skwerlz]

Hi Ryleigh's Mom,

Sorry your little girl is sick. Below is some information on MBD specifically. Also the latest version of the Pet Squirrel Diet (this is a more updated version than the one Gammas posted for you, and it is still a "draft" so may contain typos). Any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.



Metabolic Bone Disease (Revised 12/01/07)

The “typical” pet squirrel diet--consisting mostly of seeds and nuts--causes metabolic bone disease (MBD) a fatal disease caused by calcium deficiency. To avoid MBD, squirrels needs a balanced diet including plenty of
-Calcium
-Vitamin D ("the sunshine vitamin")
-Vitamin C
-Protein
-Fat


If any of these elements is missing, MBD eventually results—it can happen soon after weaning, or show up many years later. Without enough calcium in the diet, the body will take calcium from the bones, causing weak, brittle bones. Because calcium is also involved in cell-to-cell communication throughout the body, neurological symptoms are also common. Symptoms are varied and can include: broken bones, fur loss or thinning, lack of appetite, lethargy, tooth problems, inability to crack nuts, weakness, seizures, paralysis, and eventually death. The very first symptom can vary. A formerly healthy squirrel can suddenly get a broken bone, have a sudden seizure, loss of appetite, or just seem tired or reluctant to climb. Often the squirrel will show symptoms, and then recover and seem perfectly normal. This can go on for weeks, months, or even years. Here at The Squirrel Board (TSB), we see far too many pet squirrels die of final-stage MBD--squirrels as old as 7 years, and as young as 3 months. Their owners were new members who loved their squirrels very much, but sadly found TSB too late.

The most difficult element to provide for your squirrel is Vitamin D. Vit D can only come from four sources:

1. The food he eats (this is difficult, as Vit D is found mostly in fish and meat products)
2. From natural sunlight (NOT through a window--glass and screens filter out the UVB rays)
3. From a full-spectrum light indoors
4. A Vit D supplement (can be risky, as Vit D is toxic if overdosed; in fact, high-dose Vit D is used as a rat poison)

Unfortunately, even if your squirrel gets all the nutritional elements listed above, he can still get MBD. You must also AVOID giving your squirrel certain foods. For example, cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seed kernals, pine nuts, corn, and seed mixes are very high in phosphorus and will cause calcium loss. This is because of something called the “Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio.” Every pet squirrel owner should understand the basics of the calc/phos ratio.

The Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio

Calcium and phosphorus “compete” for absorption in the body. When phosphorus is ingested in the diet, as the phosphorus is absorbed through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream, the same amount of calcium is pulled from the body as part of the process. In other words, for every 1 mg of phosphorus your squirrel eats, he must eat AT LEAST 1 mg of calcium (a 1:1 ratio), just to break even. If the required calcium is not available from the diet, the body will obtain it from wherever it can---such as from the bones, where calcium is stored. Most nutritionists recommend that the ideal ratio is somewhere between 1.2-2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus; that’s a ratio of at least 1.2 to 1 or as high as 2 to 1.

So it does no good to feed “high-calcium” foods unless they are also low phosphorus. For example, almonds contain 251 mg of calcium (per 28 grams). Sounds good, right? But that serving of almonds also contains 460 mg of phosphorus. This means that for every 28-gram serving of almonds, your squirrel would actually LOSE 209 grams of calcium! He would have to eat 209 grams of extra calcium somewhere else, just to break even. This is called an "inverted calcium/phosphorus ratio" ("inverted" meaning "upside-down"). So you must feed high-calcium foods, but you must also avoid high-phosphorus foods.

Most Common Diet Mistakes

Below are the most common diet mistakes made by people with pet squirrels:

--Lack of Vitamin D. Vit D is found mainly in fish and meat. This is one reason why we recommend eggs in the diet. One exception is: mushrooms! They are one of the few non-meat foods that are high in Vit D. In the wild, squirrels eat a lot of them. Another (man-made) exception is milk products. In the U.S., nearly all milk is fortified with Vit D, so cheese, yogurt, etc., contain Vit D.
--Too many nuts. Every nut has an inverted calcium/phosphorus ratio. Some are worse than others; acorns are the best, but still have more phos than calc, resulting in calcium loss.
--Feeding sunflower seeds, corn, and pine nuts. Terrible calc/phos ratios; much worse even than nuts.
--Not feeding a nutritionally complete rodent kibble as at least 50% (by weight) of the diet.
--Lack of protein and fat. In the wild, squirrels eat bugs, grubs, carrion, and birds eggs. We encourage pet squirrel owners to include eggs (scrambled or hard-boiled), and also insects in the diet. Freeze-dried insects can be purchased online. Although not part of a squirrel's natural diet, yogurt and cheese contain protein, fat, and vitamin D.



Basic Diet for Pet Squirrels (Revised 11/21/07)

--Rodent Chow. Some type of nutritionally complete kibbled rodent chow should be at least 50% (by weight) of your squirrel’s diet: Harlan Teklab 2018 Vegetarian Rodent Diet, Harlan Teklad 8640 Rodent Diet, KayTee Forti-Diet, Zupreme monkey biscuit, and Mazuri rodent block are some good ones. (These are not the “seed mixes” you can buy at the store!) You can buy them at PetSmart, some feed stores, or order them online.

In addition to the rodent chow, feed a variety of foods from each group below—Don’t feed too much of any one food.

-Protein. Sources of protein include live or dried crickets, worms, etc.. Available from http://www.exoticnutrition.com/Treat-Department.htm. Some squirrels also enjoy killing and eating live moths. Eggs (hard-boiled or scrambled, WITH the shell) provide protein and calcium, plus one of the very few dietary sources of Vit. D.

-Healthy Fruits and Veggies. High-calcium, low-phosphorus foods include: Collard greens, mustard spinach, papaya, turnip greens, tofu (w/calcium sulfate or Nigiri), fresh parsley, beet greens, dandelion greens, Chinese cabbage (bok choy), looseleaf lettuce, figs, kale, chicory, green cabbage, watercress, endive, grapes (cut in half), celery, green beans, red cabbage, crabapple, radish, swiss chard, pear, persimmons (native), apple with skin, pineapple, winter squash, watermelon, honeydew melon, broccoli, cauliflower

-Fats. Eggs, cheese, dairy products, insects, avocado, and nuts provide fat.

-Vitamin C. A slice of citrus or bell pepper (green, red, or yellow) will aid calcium absorption (high in Vit C). One slice daily.

-Vitamin D. Eggs, dairy products, insects, and mushrooms are sources of Vitamin D.

Healthy Treats. Avocado, cucumber, cherries, romaine lettuce, strawberry, broccoli, apricot, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, carrots, cantaloupe, summer squash, seedless raisins, pumpkin, zucchini, alfalfa sprouts, peach, asparagus, banana, sweet potatoes, unsweetened cereals (All-Bran, Cheerios, Total)

Natural foods. Acorns, magnolia cones, pine cones, branch tips, mushrooms, and dandelion greens can be gathered and given as part of the diet.

Nuts—One per day, preferably in the shell.
Ripe brown acorns*, whole roasted pumpkin seeds, and almonds are the healthiest nuts. Hazelnuts, macadamia nuts, English walnuts, pecans, pistachios, and peanuts are next.

Something to Chew On. Antlers, tree branches, and cuttlebones provide vitamins, minerals, and keep teeth from overgrowing. All squirrels need to gnaw!

-Most important!: Natural sunlight (1 hour per day in an outdoor cage) or a full-spectrum light indoors (8 hrs per day) is essential for calcium absorption to prevent MBD, which can be fatal.

Foods to Avoid
Cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seed kernals, and pine nuts (very high in phosphorus and will cause calcium loss); corn, seed mixes, granola. Chocolate, artificial sweeteners like Nutra-Sweet or aspartame.

*All yogurt should be low-fat, plain or fruit flavored; no artificial sweeteners (Nutra-Sweet or aspartame)
**Can be gathered green; they will ripen inside.

[Ryleigh's new mom]

I just came back from PetSmart, and tried to get everything, but unfortunately I again had to "best guess" it. They didn't have any rodent block, calcium block, or a full-spectrum light except for an aquarium. I got the light (it says it's full spectrum) at least for now, a much larger/taller cage, wooden parrot toys, banana flavored cuttlebone, sugar glider formula for her base diet, vita-drops for hamsters, mice, rats, gerbils. It says it has 1350 IU of vitamin D3. The sugar glider formula has 2.75% of calcium, so hopefully this along with the varied fruits and veggies on the list will give her what she needs. Nobody at the store had a clue as to what she needed. Does anyone know if there's anything in these things that could potentially cause a problem?

[4skwerlz]

I just came back from PetSmart, and tried to get everything, but unfortunately I again had to "best guess" it. They didn't have any rodent block, calcium block, or a full-spectrum light except for an aquarium. I got the light (it says it's full spectrum) at least for now, a much larger/taller cage, wooden parrot toys, banana flavored cuttlebone, sugar glider formula for her base diet, vita-drops for hamsters, mice, rats, gerbils. It says it has 1350 IU of vitamin D3. The sugar glider formula has 2.75% of calcium, so hopefully this along with the varied fruits and veggies on the list will give her what she needs. Nobody at the store had a clue as to what she needed. Does anyone know if there's anything in these things that could potentially cause a problem?

Anything formulated for rats and mice is usually okay. Did you have a chance to read all that info I posted for you? I know it's long....sorry. The light is probably fine. Cuttlebone is good. Dose the vitamins according to directions. Sugar glider formula--I don't know. I doubt it would hurt, but long-term, better find one of the kibbles listed in the Basic Diet for Pet Squirrels. You've got a good start there!! Let us know how it goes.

[pelohojo]

Hi Ryleigh's new mom! That's such a beautiful name! I just read through your thread, I'm so happy to hear that she is feeling better!! I think you'll find many here who feel just like you do, that our squirrels have created a special place in our hearts where we love them so much, as a part of our family. They are indeed our little babies, they mean that much to us!

Good luck with your squirrel supplies, you have excellent guidance here with such wonderful folks...

Looking forward to hearing more about little Ryleigh as time goes on! :)

[muffinsquirrel]

Most sugar glider diets are way too high in sugar to give to squirrels. You are better off avoiding them.

muffinsquirrel

[Ryleigh's new mom]

New pics of my baby! I just took these a few minutes ago. I'm soooo glad she's better!!! :rotfl :jump

[island rehabber]

She looks WONDERFUL! :thumbsup

[pelohojo]

Aawww, what a cutie-pie, and looks so HEALTHY!! Hooray for Ryleigh & mom! :jump

[Ryleigh's new mom]

:thankyou :thankyou :thankyou :multi :jump

[4skwerlz]

Hi Ryleigh's Mom,

First of all, thanks for joining us in the Chat Room. You were a big help and clearly have a knack for squirrel-doctoring. Ever think of becoming a rehabber?

Whether Ryleigh's illness was MBD-related or not, it's a great time to reassess her diet, and prevent MBD from ever happening. If you have any questions about the info I posted for you today, don't hesitate to ask. MBD is a silent killer, and it's my personal mission to help prevent this deadly disease whenever possible. I'm so glad you found TSB! Ryleigh's a darling.:grouphug

[Ryleigh's new mom]

Hi Ryleigh's Mom,

First of all, thanks for joining us in the Chat Room. You were a big help and clearly have a knack for squirrel-doctoring. Ever think of becoming a rehabber?

Whether Ryleigh's illness was MBD-related or not, it's a great time to reassess her diet, and prevent MBD from ever happening. If you have any questions about the info I posted for you today, don't hesitate to ask. MBD is a silent killer, and it's my personal mission to help prevent this deadly disease whenever possible. I'm so glad you found TSB! Ryleigh's a darling.:grouphug

I'm glad I could be of any kind of help! I LOVE animals!!! All kinds (well, some more than others..............I kinda hate hippos!). As far as being a rehabber, there's nothing I would love more in the world. I've found myself "rehabbing" animals since I was about 6 years old and found a baby bird that fell out of the nest and fed it with an eye-dropper until it grew feathers and flew away. Unfortunately, I'm a single mom who's currently living in a condo and has a full-time job. I wouldn't have the time or resources to give them what they would need and deserve although I would do kill myself trying! Ryleigh was given to me and my kids (I believe from a higher power) at a time when we really needed her. My landlord doesn't allow pets except for hamsters, fish, birds, etc...and I know I'm bending rules by allowing Ryleigh, but "technically" she is a "cage" animal (even though she has free run of the apartment and more toys than my kids!) My children have loved and had pets since they were babies, and really missed them when my husband and I divorced and we moved from Louisiana. They are absolutely as smitten with her as I am!!!

[anneke]

She is precious. I'm so glad she is on the mend.

[aurora42245]

Hi, I wasnt sure if you got a full-spectrum light. I just wanted to let you know I did get mine from Petco. It was in the bird section. Ive had it for a little while now any my three guys are doing great. It was $40-45 bucks. Good luck with your little one!
:thumbsup mjs