Diabetes in squirrels - anyone have experience?

[luvs squirrels]

We have a 5 yr old male that started acting different - not wanting to jump into or out of his bed, not lifting himself up and all he wanted to eat was pear and apple. He would eat very little hazelnut and pecans which I had to crack open because he wouldn't crack them himself.

How he came into our home was he fell out of our tree in the back yard 5 years ago. We took him to a vet and the x ray showed his rear left leg had fused together. He neutered him and said it was best to leave the leg alone. He's had no problems until recenlty. We thought he may be having difficulty with his leg or back - maybe arthritis.

We took him to the same vet the day before Thanksgiving and he sedated him and took a urine sample (have no idea how that was accomplished) and he said the preliminary findings was that his sugar levels were high and he had diabetes. The vet put in a couple calls to other vets with more experience in squirrels. Since the other vets were closed for the holiday, we wouldn't find out anything from them until the first of this week. All he told us was to not give him any fruit - just seeds and nuts. Still haven't heard anything from him and I've put in a call to see if the other vets called him back.

He didn't eat hardly anything for the day after we took him to the vet. I would have to take the water bottle to him in his bed to get him to drink. Saturday morning we heard him drinking from his water bottle - he'd gotten down out of his bed by himself and started drinking. He's continuing to be stronger each day. :woohoo

Does anyone know what you can feed a diabetic squirrel?

Thanks and I'm really glad I found this website today. :)

[jules]

:Welcome :wave123

If he has Diabetes, he would normally be drinking lots water and peeing more than usual?
As for the diet, the best person to answer that would be 4skwerlz. There will be other rehabbers here shortly that can also help.

Good to have you with us!:thumbsup

Jules. :Love_Icon :wave123

[luvs squirrels]

Thanks Jules, yes, I have noticed that he was drinking a little more than usual but hadn't noticed him peeing more.

:thankyou

[TexanSquirrel]

:Welcome

[4skwerlz]

Hi luvs,

Below I'm going to list some diet info for you (it was in the process of being revised--may contain typos--but I didn't want to wait to give it to you). If you haven't been following this type of diet, plus some sunshine or full-spectrum light for your squirrel, he may have MBD. This is a fatal disease, but curable in all but the last stages. Without knowing more about the symptoms and diet history of your squirrel, I will still say that it is MUCH more likely that your squirrel has MBD than diabetes.


Feeding Your Pet Squirrel (Revised 11/25/07)

The “typical” pet squirrel diet--consisting mostly of seeds and nuts--causes metabolic bone disease (MBD) a fatal disease caused by calcium deficiency. To avoid MBD, squirrels need plenty of four important elements:
--calcium
--Vitamin C
--protein
--Vitamin D ("the sunshine vitamin")

If any one of these elements is missing, then MBD eventually results—it can happen soon after weaning, or show up many years later. Symptoms are varied and can include: fur loss or thinning, lack of appetite, lethargy, tooth problems, inability to crack nuts, weakness, seizures, paralysis, and eventually death. Often the squirrel will show symptoms, then seem to get better. This can go on for weeks, months, or even years. Here at The Squirrel Board (TSB), we typically see at least one pet squirrel die of final-stage MBD every month. Squirrels as old as 7 years, and as young as 3 months died of MBD over the summer. Their owners were new members who loved their squirrels very much, but sadly found TSB too late.

The most difficult element to provide for your squirrel is Vitamin D. Vit D can only come from 4 sources:
1. The food he eats (this is difficult, as Vit D is found mostly in fish and meat products)
2. From natural sunlight (NOT through a window--glass and screens filter out the UVB rays)
3. From a full-spectrum light indoors
4. A Vit D supplement (can be risky, as Vit D is very toxic if overdosed; in fact, high-dose Vit D is used as a rat poison)

Unfortunately, even if your squirrel gets all the nutritional elements listed above, he can still get MBD. You must also AVOID giving your squirrel certain foods. This is because of something called the “Calcium:Phosphorus ratio.” Every pet squirrel owner should understand the basics of the calc/phos ratio.

The Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio

Calcium and phosphorus “compete” for absorption in the body. For every gram of phosphorus ingested in the diet, the body must match that with another gram of calcium before the phosphorus can be absorbed through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. If the required calcium is not available from the diet, the body will obtain it from wherever it can---such as from the bones.

So for every gram of phosphorus your squirrel eats, he must eat AT LEAST an equal amount of calcium (a 1:1 ratio), just to break even. Most nutritionists recommend that the ideal ratio is somewhere between 1.2-2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus; that’s a ratio of at least 1.2:1, up to 2:1.

It does no good to feed “high-calcium” foods unless they are also low phosphorus. For example, almonds contain 251 mg of calcium (per 28 grams). Sounds good, right? But it also contains 460 mg of phosphorus. This means that for every 28-gram serving of almonds, your squirrel would LOSE 209 grams of calcium! He would have to eat 209 grams of extra calcium somewhere else, just to break even. So you must feed high-calcium foods, and also avoid high-phosphorus foods.

Most Common Diet Mistakes

Below are the most common mistakes, diet-wise, made by people with pet squirrels:

--Lack of Vitamin D. Vit D is found mainly in fish and meat. This is one reason why we recommend eggs in the diet. One exception is: mushrooms! They are one of the few non-meat foods that are high in Vit D. In the wild, squirrels eat a lot of them. Another (man-made) exception is milk products. In the U.S., nearly all milk is fortified with Vit D, so cheese, yogurt, etc., contain Vit D.
--Too many nuts. Every nut has an inverted calcium/phosphorus ratio. Some are worse than others; acorns are the best, but still have more phos than calc, resulting in calcium loss.
--Feeding sunflower seeds, corn, and pine nuts. Terrible calc/phos ratios; much worse even than nuts.
--Not feeding a balanced rodent chow/monkey chow as at least 50% of the diet.
--Lack of protein and fat. In the wild, squirrels eat bugs, maggots, carrion, and birds eggs. We encourage pet squirrel owners to include eggs (scrambled or hard-boiled) as well as yogurt, cheese, and other high-fat, high-protein foods.


Below is the recommended diet for pet squirrels. Remember, if you have questions, we are always here to help you:

Basic Diet for Pet Squirrels (Revised 11/21/07)

-Rodent block, monkey biscuit, or another complete rodent chow should be at least 50% of your squirrel’s diet (Zupreme Monkey Biscuit, Harlan Teklad 8640 Rat Diet, Mazuri Rodent Block, and LabDiet 5001 are some good ones.) These are not the “seed mixes” you can buy at the store! You can buy them at PetSmart, some feed stores, or order them online.
-Eggs (hard-boiled or scrambled, WITH the shell) provides protein and calcium, plus one of the very few dietary sources of Vit. D. At least one egg/week.
-A slice of citrus or bell pepper (green, red, or yellow) will aid calcium absorption (high in Vit C). One slice daily.
-Natural foods: acorns, magnolia cones, pine cones, branch tips, mushrooms, and dandelion greens can be gathered and given as part of the diet.
-Antlers, tree branches, and cuttlebones provide vitamins, minerals, and keep teeth from overgrowing. All squirrels need to gnaw!

-Most important!: Natural sunlight (1 hour per day in an outdoor cage) or a full-spectrum light indoors (8 hrs per day) is essential for calcium absorption to prevent MBD, which can be fatal.

In addition to the items listed above, feed a variety of foods listed below—Don’t feed too much of any one food

Healthiest Foods (high-calcium/low-phosphorus)—Your squirrel must eat at least one of these foods every day.
Collard greens, mustard spinach, papaya, turnip greens, tofu (w/calcium sulfate or Nigiri), fresh parsley, beet greens, dandelion greens, Chinese cabbage (bok choy), looseleaf lettuce, figs, kale, chicory

Other Healthy Foods—These provide more essential nutrition.
Mushrooms (very high in Vit. D), yogurt (low-fat, plain or fruit flavored; no artificial sweeteners), green cabbage, watercress, endive, grapes (cut in half), celery, green beans, red cabbage, crabapple, radish, swiss chard, pear, persimmons (native), apple with skin, pineapple, winter squash, watermelon, honeydew melon, broccoli, cauliflower

Healthy Treats
Avocado, cucumber, cherries, romaine lettuce, strawberry, broccoli, apricot, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, carrots, cantaloupe, summer squash, seedless raisins, pumpkin, zucchini, alfalfa sprouts, peach, asparagus, banana, sweet potatoes, unsweetened cereals (All-Bran, Cheerios, Total)

Nuts—One per day, preferably in the shell.
Ripe brown acorns*, whole roasted pumpkin seeds, and almonds are the healthiest nuts. Hazelnuts, macadamia nuts, English walnuts, pecans, pistachios, and peanuts are next.

Foods to Avoid
Cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seed kernals, and pine nuts (very high in phosphorus and will cause calcium loss); corn, seed mixes, granola.

*Can be gathered green; they will ripen inside.

[luvs squirrels]

His diet has been pecans, hazelnuts, sunflower seeds, lettuce, broccoli, grapes, apples, pears, uncooked spagetti, a little avacado, melba toast, a few mushrooms, bing cherries when in season, breakfast trail mix bars and some acorns.

In the past couple weeks, he has had a loss of appetite, drinking more water, didn't want to jump into or out of his bed, and stopped cracking nuts on his own. After we took away his fruit as of Wednesday afternoon, he has been much better. The vet said his sugar level in his urine was high - that was the reason he said it was diabetes. He is now getting in and out of his bed, drinking water on his own and has more appetite. He's been more alert and cleaning himself more.

Is there any test the vet can do to determine it is MBD and not diabetes?

I really appreciate your response.

[4skwerlz]

His diet has been pecans, hazelnuts, sunflower seeds, lettuce, broccoli, grapes, apples, pears, uncooked spagetti, a little avacado, melba toast, a few mushrooms, bing cherries when in season, breakfast trail mix bars and some acorns.

In the past couple weeks, he has had a loss of appetite, drinking more water, didn't want to jump into or out of his bed, and stopped cracking nuts on his own. After we took away his fruit as of Wednesday afternoon, he has been much better. The vet said his sugar level in his urine was high - that was the reason he said it was diabetes. He is now getting in and out of his bed, drinking water on his own and has more appetite. He's been more alert and cleaning himself more.

Is there any test the vet can do to determine it is MBD and not diabetes?

I really appreciate your response.

There is no reliable test for MBD. But the incidence of MBD in pet squirrels is probably (sadly) around 50%. It may be higher. The incidence of diabetes in pet squirrels??? Unknown, as no one has been able to find even one case so far. The diet you mentioned does contain some high-calcium foods, but also contains a lot of high-phosphorus foods. Too many nuts (especially sunflower seeds--very bad!) will cancel out the good stuff he was eating. Plus no full-spectrum light or sunlight..... The likely diagnosis is MBD for now.

The easiest way to find out is to treat him for MBD (which won't hurt him) and see if he improves. They usually improve very quickly!

Can you go to Chat? I will explain the treatment for MBD. It's easier there because I have to ask you some questions as well....

[luvs squirrels]

I can go to chat. Is there a specific room I need to be in? This is the first time I've been here, so not sure what I'm doing.

Thanks!

[jules]

Hi Luvs!

How is your little fella today?
Did you get things sorted with 4skwerlz, about his diet?

Also, what type of squirrel have you got? Is he a grey tree squirrel or ground squirrel, etc?
It's just that there has been cases of ground squirrels being diagnosed with Diabetes, but not tree squirrels!

Hope he is much better!:thumbsup

Jules. :Love_Icon

[luvs squirrels]

Good morning, Jules

He's a fox squirrel. 4skwerlz is thinking is MBD. We're going to talk this morning. Just can't figure out why his sugar level was so high if not diabetes.

:)

[pamela lee]

:Welcome :wave123 I once had a cat that was diabetic. Our vet did alot of tests before concluding it was diabetes. My poor cat had to fast several times to see what his levels were with out any food then with different kinds of food. It was quite a process, so I wouldn't think your squirrel could be diagnosed with just one test. I'd just treat for MBD like all the very smart folks on here have suggested. GOOD LUCK to you and your little man.

[4skwerlz]

UPDATE:

I just spent about an hour in Chat with Luvs Squirrels, and I just wanted everyone to know what's going on. Also I am summarizing the info here in case Luvs needs to refer to it or print it out.

Diabetes in a tree squirrel seems so unlikely, and Sammy's symptoms and diet sound so much like MBD, that we are treating for MBD. However, just in case, Luvs will continue to avoid sweet foods and fruits for a bit longer. This makes it even more of a challenge to treat him and get him on a healthy diet long-term, but I'm sure it can be done.

Sammy has been eating a lot of healthy foods like broccoli, lettuce, and mushrooms. The problem is, he was also eating a lot of very unhealthy foods like sunflower seeds and nuts. The high phosphorus in the sunflower seeds and nuts was undoubtedly canceling out whatever calcium he was eating. Also no rodent block or monkey chow type food, and no vitamin/mineral supplement. In addition, Sammy had minimal time outdoors and no full-spectrum light (FSL).

Treatment for MBD really has 3 phases:

1. Emergency calcium and Vit D (1-2 weeks, depending on severity)
2. Diet adjustment (length of time will depend on how picky the squirrel is)
3. Maintenance--keeping the squirrel on a healthy diet to prevent recurrence of MBD



Sammy's Treatment Plan

Phase 1 (2 weeks)

1. Introduce a balanced rodent chow: KayTee Forti-Diet for Rats and Mice*

2. Eliminate all unhealthy foods, and feed only foods from the first two groups in the Diet List: "Healthiest Foods" and "Other Healthy Foods." **

3. Provide an emergency calcium source: plain calcium carbonate pills for nibbling, and to be crushed and sprinkled on all foods for 3 days; a pineapple or grape calcium/mineral block to be provided for 2 weeks***

4. Provide sources of Vitamin D: Time outdoors in his cage, an FSL light indoors, plus the calcium/mineral block

5. Provide sources of Vitamin C: Red or green bell peppers****

6. Begin to introduce any other nutritional elements that might have been missing from the diet: In this case, eggs and dairy products.

Notes:
*I recommended the KayTee Fort-Diet simply because it is easily available and seems well liked. We can sort out which chow to feed Sammy long-term, later on.

**Fortunately, Sammy already likes lettuce, broccoli, mushrooms, grapes, and avocado.

***Since Sammy's MBD is relatively early-stage, this will be done for only 3 days and see how he does. The pineapple calcium/mineral block seems to be the tastiest so I recommended that one. That will be provided long-term if necessary.

****Since Sammy can't have fruit right now, the bell peppers seem a good choice. Also, bell peppers have more Vit C than any other fruit or vegetable, including citrus!


Sammy's New Diet

Phase 1 (2 weeks)

KayTee Forti-Diet for Rats and Mice
Bell peppers
Mushrooms
Broccoli
Looseleaf lettuce
Mushrooms
Eggs
Dairy products
Other high-calcium/low-phosphorus foods from the Diet List
Calcium carbonate pills crushed and sprinkled on all foods for 3 days
Pineapple calcium/mineral block to be provided for 2 weeks

PLUS the sunlight and FSL of course!


Comments and suggestions more than welcome, as always!!

Gammas, maybe you can help Luvs with getting the proper FSL, as most people seem to have trouble finding the right one!

[philomycus]

:Welcome :wave123 I once had a cat that was diabetic. Our vet did alot of tests before concluding it was diabetes. My poor cat had to fast several times to see what his levels were with out any food then with different kinds of food. It was quite a process, so I wouldn't think your squirrel could be diagnosed with just one test. I'd just treat for MBD like all the very smart folks on here have suggested. GOOD LUCK to you and your little man.

Yep. You'll havw to have him tested several times to see if he's diabetic. Squirrels are like any other mammal- even though it maybe very rare, he could actually have diabetes. Carbs make up a bigger part of their diet for indoor/pet squirrels. If he's genetically prone and was a wild squirrel, he probably would enver see the symptoms of it or even live that long for it to develop.

But ya might as well treat for MBD....like everyone else said it definielty will NOT hurt and could even help. Your vet will have to do several tests over a period of time to determine if he has diaebetes. If it is, you'll probably be able to manage with insulin....if the injection doesn't ben the needle :) Squirrels do have tough skin! :) Please keep us updated and follow 4skewlerz advice until you know if it is diabetes. Dirinking a lot more water is a CLASSIC symtpom of diabetes or kidney problems.

[luvs squirrels]

He's not doing as well today as he has the past few days. I have tried the hard boiled egg, cottage cheese and broccoli and he won't eat any of it. He seems to be having touble keeping his balance this morning. My husband is going to the store to pick up the things 4skwerlz has said to do and will get the full spectrum light.

Thanks to all of you. Your support means the world to me.:thankyou

[philomycus]

We're rooting for your baby. The great news is if it's MBD, then it's sooooo fixable!!!

:grouphug

[Pam]

Yep. You'll havw to have him tested several times to see if he's diabetic. Squirrels are like any other mammal- even though it maybe very rare, he could actually have diabetes. Carbs make up a bigger part of their diet for indoor/pet squirrels. If he's genetically prone and was a wild squirrel, he probably would enver see the symptoms of it or even live that long for it to develop.

But ya might as well treat for MBD....like everyone else said it definielty will NOT hurt and could even help. Your vet will have to do several tests over a period of time to determine if he has diaebetes. If it is, you'll probably be able to manage with insulin....if the injection doesn't ben the needle :) Squirrels do have tough skin! :) Please keep us updated and follow 4skewlerz advice until you know if it is diabetes. Dirinking a lot more water is a CLASSIC symtpom of diabetes or kidney problems.
:wave123Luvs and :Welcome!

It will not hurt to treat for MBD, but do not rule out diabetes until more test are done. Any mammal can become diabetic. Really the blood should be tested for sugar to get an accurate diagnosis instead of relying only on a urine test. Stress can cause the blood sugar to spill over into the urine. (This is common with cats.) I would think that your squirrel's trip to the vet was stressful...plus sedation would cause stress.

I'm sorry to hear your squirrel is not doing well today. I hope you hear from your squirrel's vet soon.

[philomycus]

I understand why theu are doing urine though. It's almost impossible to get a good vein to draw enough blood from for the sugar test. We are pulling for you!!

[jules]

Hi Luvs!

Im sorry to hear that Sammy is not doing so well today!
You are getting the very best of help from people such as 4skwerlz....:bowdown

I agree, that to make a definate diagnosis of Diabetes, the vet will need to do several blood fasting tests. This involves starving Sammy for so many hours and then taking a blood test early in the morning.
It's possible that because he was eating lots of sweet fruits, his blood glucose would be high. Hopefully if that was the cause, now he is going on to a varing diet, his glucose levels should come down.
It would be a good idea to get him tested again once he has been on his new diet for a while. That way you should get a true reading of his levels.

My thoughts and prayers are with you both!:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

Jules. :Love_Icon

[4skwerlz]

Here is a picture of the package the pineapple calcium/mineral block comes in. It also comes in grape. But any kind of calc/min supplement made for rats, hamsters, or birds is fine.

18684

[4skwerlz]

UPDATE:

Spent some time in Chat again with Luvs Squirrels last night. Unfortunately Sammy was worse on Tuesday and had stopped eating again, so he of course wouldn't touch any of the healthy foods Luvs had bought.

To get the emergency calcium into him, Luvs crushed a couple of pills to a powder. He got some calcium/water paste into his mouth and Sammy swallowed it. Also mixed some calcium powder with a little yogurt and he ate that. Also is eating a little Total cereal and mushrooms.

For now, Luvs will keep encouraging Sammy to eat to keep his strength up, adding calcium powder to everything he eats or drinks until his appetite improves. Also will give Sammy some time outside on his lap in the sun (they are pretty far South so there should be some good UVB rays even in November). Luvs reported that yesterday, Sammy groomed himself after his sunbath, so we know he got some good Vitamin D. They are still trying to locate an FSL. Continuing to minimize sugars, and to follow-up with the vet on the diabetes possibility. Mars also stopped in to help. There is a homeopathic remedy on the way to Luvs as well.

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

UPDATE:

Spent some time in Chat again with Luvs Squirrels last night. Unfortunately Sammy was worse on Tuesday and had stopped eating again, so he of course wouldn't touch any of the healthy foods Luvs had bought.

To get the emergency calcium into him, Luvs crushed a couple of pills to a powder. He got some calcium/water paste into his mouth and Sammy swallowed it. Also mixed some calcium powder with a little yogurt and he ate that. Also is eating a little Total cereal and mushrooms.

For now, Luvs will keep encouraging Sammy to eat to keep his strength up, adding calcium powder to everything he eats or drinks until his appetite improves. Also will give Sammy some time outside on his lap in the sun (they are pretty far South so there should be some good UVB rays even in November). Luvs reported that yesterday, Sammy groomed himself after his sunbath, so we know he got some good Vitamin D. They are still trying to locate an FSL. Continuing to minimize sugars, and to follow-up with the vet on the diabetes possibility. Mars also stopped in to help. There is a homeopathic remedy on the way to Luvs as well.
:grouphug :grouphug Thats some good news..::well ::wishes::and thoughts::
I hope he'll be getting better soon!!!:grouphug :Love_Icon

[luvs squirrels]

Update on Sammy :crazy

After we got off chat last night, I was able to get Sammy to eat more yogurt, mushroom, romaine lettuce and he actually ate some red bell pepper! All had the calcium on it and I put some in his water and he drank that also. He had a good night's sleep and ate some more of the above again this morning. He actually was licking the calcium off the veggies! He still seems a little wobbley-not like yesterday, but I'm sure that's due to not having that much food in him. He is laying on my lap right now with a heating pad under a blanket and is enjoying that. He has been grooming himself this morning and seems more alert today. We'll have a sunny day today and we'll be back outside - we both enjoyed it yesterday. We're going to try to get the pineapple calcium/mineral block today - thanks 4skwerlz for the picture of it - that helps.

Can't thank everyone enough for their assistance, support and concern for my precious little man! Everyone's concern and instructions as to what to do has kept me going!

I have noticed he's been grinding his teeth yesterday and today - does that mean anything?

Will keep you updated. Luv to all!
:Love_Icon

[Mars]

:thumbsup :Love_Icon :thumbsup

[4skwerlz]

Wonderful news, Luvs!! :thumbsup

You've done a fantastic job with Sammy's care. I know it isn't easy to go through this.

Please keep us updated as often as possible, as everyone here on TSB is very concerned about little Sammy. :grouphug

[jules]

Your doing a GREAT job caring for Sammy. Im so happy that he has been eating a little more....well done!:thumbsup

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[philomycus]

:grouphug Glad to hear Sammy is doing better! 4skelwerz, thx for helping her out. I hope it's only MBD and it was caught in time! Please keep us posted!!

[luvs squirrels]

Sammy update...

The vet finally called me. He still hasn't heard from the vet at a vet college he's trying to get in touch with. I faxed him some of the -I guess you call them threads- about Sammy's situation and it being MBD. He didn't have a problem with the diet from 4skwerlz - just still says it is also diabetes. He said if he would have drawn blood and the glucose would have been high it could have been from stress, but with the urine sugar level being high it had been elevated for a long period. He has been drinking a bunch more water for the past few months. He said he's seen MBD in reptiles and when Sammy was under, he felt him and didn't feel anything that would lead him to believe there were signs of MBD because the bones are usually larger. He said that treating for diabetes and MBD is no problem. He's still waiting to hear back from the other vet and will call me with a diet they recommend - which I will pass on.

Ordered the FSL from the place Gammas Baby recommended. Talked to Chris the owner and she was very nice and helpful. She recommended getting the primate biscuit instead of using the KayTee and pineapple calcium/mineral block since the primate biscuit is specifically for squirrels and to be careful of the amount of yogurt he's given because it can take good bacteria out of them unless they're taking an antibiotic. She also said if he won't eat the biscuit, I could give him Glucerna for diabetics instead of Ensure to watch the sugar content.

This afternoon Sammy and I had a picnic out on our deck for an hour and 10 minutes until the sun started setting. He ate more mushrooms (loves them - can he eat too many?), red bell pepper and romaine lettuce. I'm a little leary of the yogurt with what Chris said and the doctor saying no sugar. What does everyone think????? Sammy also drank more water with the calcium in it several times today. Before he goes to bed, I'll get him out again and feed him more. Everything he's been fed has had the calcium on it.

It was so funny when we had our picnic. There was a squirrel on our roof looking down at us on our deck and he was really telling me off!:nono Guess he was trying to figure out why there was a squirrel laying on my lap!

I do have a question about what everyone's squirrels sleep in. Sammy has always slept in a cloth made hammock that is tied in one side of his cage. Chris did mention with MBD you have to be careful with them jumping which makes me wonder if I need to do something different for his bed.

I'm attaching two pictures I took this afternoon because 4skwerlz wants to see his fur.

Guess that's it for now. Today was a much better day :wahoo
Everyone's comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

:Love_Icon

[Pam]

Sammy is a handsome boy! :Love_Icon I have a 5 year old female grey named Roxy.

I'm glad that Sammy had a better day. :grouphug

[luvs squirrels]

Thanks, Pam. He's the love of my life...but don't tell my husband. Have you been following the correct diet for all of Roxy's life? Any problems with her? Sure wish I would have found this place in the beginning so I would have known the proper things to do.

Seems like you have to go day by day. It's scary when they get older. I would have a squirrel as a pet any day over the 4 dogs I've had in my life. Much easier to take care of!

Have a great evening.

[Pam]

Don't feel bad, Luv...Roxy wasn't on a proper diet until last January when she became sick. :shakehead I hate to admit it, but she didn't have a full spectrum light until then. :shakehead I thought she had developed MBD. A couple of months later, she developed an abscess between her eye and ear. When the vet lanced the abscess, he cultured it. The culture grew a bacteria that is found on a hog farm. I had given her some potting soil from a ponsettia back in December. :shakehead We assume that the infection that Roxy developed came from the potting soil.

I love having a pet squirrel. Roxy is the love of my life, too... well... except for the 16 week old female grey, Rosie, that I have been raising. I love her, too!! :Love_Icon

[philomycus]

LOL ...my husband knows that my squirrel is the love of my life :D
When I thought I was going to lose him this summer I was just beside myself. They definitely give us something that dogs and cats can't and it seems that only other squirrel people understand our serious "infatuation" with our fuzzers.

He's a pic of what Rocky sleeps in. I bought three that way I can always replace one that's dirty while I wash the other. I get them from the pet stroe or either online ( a little cheaper).

[4skwerlz]

How is Sammy today?

[luvs squirrels]

He's about the same. Still doesn't want to get out of his bed on his own. I've had him outside in the sun for the last three days. Got my order from Chris with the FSL and the mix. She gave me a recipie for the biscuit since I can't get him to touch the KayTee stuff. My husband is going to the store today to get some glucerna to put in the biscuit recipie since he souldn't have ensure. He's eathing mushrooms - absolutely loves them - and some red bell pepper and romaine lettuce. If I give him a piece of avocade or a little hazelnut, he will actually raise up and goes crazy with those two things. He's drinking water, which is good, but still weak.

He likes the FSL. We're also going to get some green beans, kale, squash, spinach, sweet potato so he'll have some kind of variety. He's got to be tired the the same old three things he'll eat. The vet didn't have any problem with any of these items - trying to cover both issues!!!!!

Our vet still hasn't heard back from the specialist at the vet college and has put in a call to them every day!

I'ts very hard not to be down. I just feel so sorry for him. I'm hoping that it will just take a while for him to build up his strength. When we initially went to the vet before Thanksgiving, he said we should know something in a couple weeks, so I'm trying to keep my chin up. Found a new way to loose weight...I've lost 5 pounds in the past week just worrying about my baby.

Let me know if you have any more suggestions. And thanks again for your continued support and caring.

:thankyou

[luvs squirrels]

That's the only thing that gives me hope - knowing that it should take time. I just don't want him to suffer. It's one day at a time. Thanks for your caring.

[philomycus]

:grouphug I've been thinking about Sammy and you. We understand about you worrying about him so much. When I thought my baby wouldn't make it, I would get so nervous about it, it would flare up my insides all the time and nothing could shut it off. At least you're doing everything you can for him now, that's what matters.

[luvs squirrels]

Thanks for the thoughts. His being sick has just taken over my entire being! It's all I can think about from the second I wake up until the second I go to sleep. If it weren't for my husband, I don't think I would even cook supper. Can't wait until he gets back from the store to see if Sammy will like any of the new healthy food.

I'm just glad I'm retired and can spend all the time I need to at home. I can't imagine how I'd be if I had to go to work...probably be fired! Ha ha.

I've just got to keep reminding myself that it will take time for him to get better. As long as he's eating the healthy stuff and drinking water and has his full spectrum light that's good news!

I've been reading all over this site and it really helps me to see so many others in the same position and to read that their squirrels get better. Mine in 5 1/2 years old, so just the age scares me too.

Thanks everyone!
:thankyou :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[4skwerlz]

He's about the same. Still doesn't want to get out of his bed on his own. I've had him outside in the sun for the last three days. Poor lil guy! My heart just aches for both of you.


Got my order from Chris with the FSL and the mix. She gave me a recipie for the biscuit since I can't get him to touch the KayTee stuff. My husband is going to the store today to get some glucerna to put in the biscuit recipie since he souldn't have ensure.
It will take time to get Sammy to eat the biscuit, or like Gammas' squirrel Baby, he might never learn to like it. Have you tried dipping the biscuit in something yummy?


He's eathing mushrooms - absolutely loves them - and some red bell pepper and romaine lettuce. If I give him a piece of avocade or a little hazelnut, he will actually raise up and goes crazy with those two things. He's drinking water, which is good, but still weak. That's great he's eating mushrooms--lots of Vitamin D, which is so important right now. Are you still giving him extra calcium as well? Make sure Sammy doesn't get dehydrated.


He likes the FSL. We're also going to get some green beans, kale, squash, spinach, sweet potato so he'll have some kind of variety. He's got to be tired the the same old three things he'll eat. The vet didn't have any problem with any of these items - trying to cover both issues!!!!! Sounds great! You have certainly done everything a caring squirrel owner could possibly do. :grouphug

[luvs squirrels]

He's more alert tonight. I just had him out and he was cleaning himself bigtime. He ate a tiny bit of squash, a bite of green bean and some spinach. That's all of the new stuff he'd even try. I will keep trying to give him the same things because you never know when he'll decide he likes it. It took over five years for him to be picky so it won't happen overnight to change him. If I'd let him, I think he'd eat an entire mushroom and avocado at once. I'm trying to limit them because I don't know if he can get too much of one thing.

I haven't tried to dip the biscuit into anything yummy yet. We got some weight watchers yogurt since it's lower in sugar and maybe will try that. He doesn't like the glucerna, but will keep trying that also.

I just keep putting things in front of him and every now and then he'll suprise me and take a nibble of something. He actually ate some of the cuttle bone I've been trying to give him for a week!!!!!

He is still getting calcium and hasn't had any problems with drinking water. Thanks goodness I haven't had that problem.

If he starts chewing on the cuttle bone, will I still need to put the extra calcium on everything?

I'll get him out of his bed again in a few hours and try to get him to eat some more. He does love the romaine lettuce - is that ok? I'm kind of glad that he isn't trying to get out of bed with the different threads I've read today about MBD. Sounds like it's best he kind of stays still for right now.

He seems more alert after he's had the FSL on him. He really seems to enjoy it.

Thanks again to all for your support and prayers. We're going to hang in there!

:thankyou :thumbsup :Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

You're doing beautifully with him -- keep up the good work!! :thumbsup:)

[4skwerlz]

He's more alert tonight. I just had him out and he was cleaning himself bigtime. He ate a tiny bit of squash, a bite of green bean and some spinach. That's all of the new stuff he'd even try. I will keep trying to give him the same things because you never know when he'll decide he likes it. It took over five years for him to be picky so it won't happen overnight to change him. If I'd let him, I think he'd eat an entire mushroom and avocado at once. I'm trying to limit them because I don't know if he can get too much of one thing.
It's wonderful that he will even take a bite out of unfamiliar foods--it's a good start! You are right that a variety is best.


I haven't tried to dip the biscuit into anything yummy yet. We got some weight watchers yogurt since it's lower in sugar and maybe will try that. He doesn't like the glucerna, but will keep trying that also.
No artificial sweeteners!!!! (aspartame or nutra-sweet)



If he starts chewing on the cuttle bone, will I still need to put the extra calcium on everything?
For the next few days, yes.


I'll get him out of his bed again in a few hours and try to get him to eat some more. He does love the romaine lettuce - is that ok? I'm kind of glad that he isn't trying to get out of bed with the different threads I've read today about MBD. Sounds like it's best he kind of stays still for right now.
Lettuce is good.


He seems more alert after he's had the FSL on him. He really seems to enjoy it.
We have another squirrel on TSB with possible MBD who is actually sleeping ON the FSL. They seem to know what they need.
:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Hi Luvs Squirrels - I have been going through a similar thing with my sweet 9 year old red tree squirrel, Leeloo - I think you even gave us well wishes on our thread. And boy, do I know what you mean about your world narrowing down to a pinpoint of a focus on caring for and worrying about your baby when they are sick!

Leeloo is 9, so your little Sammy is much younger, and it sounds like you caught it lots earlier, assuming our babies have MBD. So I would think odds are hugely in Sammy's favor for a total recovery! That's wonderful he is eating so well, even while not feeling so good. And grooming, even - great, great news!

The emergency vet I took Leeloo to checked her urine because I initially thought it might be diabetes - but she told me that the glucose level was probably high due to stress (from the vet visit and from whatever was going on in her system). The other 2 vets I took her to also confirmed that diabetes in squirrels was very rare and not likely. Just fyi, what I was told about that issue. But they all also were positive it's not MBD too, which certainly seems like the most likely thing to me, after learning from everyone here. Looking back, Leeloo seems to have started drinking more water for several weeks prior to this happening too. It seems like they are having a similar health issue, for sure.

Sammy is getting such TLC and you are doing everything available to get him well - he is a lucky little boy!

Sending our positive thoughts, may he improve every day and get back to his total healthy self really soon!
:grouphug

p.s. - having to leave to go to work is every bit as awful as you imagined, but luckily I'm not fired yet...

[MyBushyTail]

I know its way too early for you and Sammy to be awake, but I was just wondering how he is doing this morning?

I am glad to see he was more alert last night, grooming himself and still eating. YEAHHH!!! That is great!!!

Hang in there I know its tough, as you know I've been there, unfortunaltely my second one did not make it.

Wishing for Sammy to have a full recovery.

Keep us updated when you have a chance.

[luvs squirrels]

Thanks again for everyone's support! It is so fantastic to be able to talk with other squirrel lovers. I never knew there are so many of us out there. I never planned to have a pet squirrel, but I wouldn't trade this joy for anything in the world! Just seeing his sweet little face brings so much happiness.

He's doing good today. Got him to eat the same few things and he is chewing on the cuttle bone. It takes a couple hours with him on my lap putting all his food in front of him one by one over and over and he'll turn his head away and then finally one time he'll eat something. I can't get him to eat any of the rodent blocks no matter what or how many times I try, but I'm not giving up. He comes to life when I put mushrooms and avocado in front of him. He'll actually grab them out of my hand and raise himself up to eat them. I thought I'd be smart and ground up the rodent block and mashed a little piece of avocado onto it :nono he wouldn't have anything to do with it!!!!! He can be so stubborn!

pelohojo, my vet still insists that it's diabetes. He said the high sugar in the urine could not come from stress - that would only happen in a blood sample. So, I don't know what to believe. Just not giving him any fruit in case it is. He didn't reject the possibility of it being MBD at least.

He finally heard back from the vet college and they said ALL that a squirrel should have is roden block and timothy hay. Well, that's not going to work for Sammy! He would starve to death. They said to be very careful with supplements because they can do as much harm as good. I'm still putting the calcium carbonate on his food. I put it on his favorites that I know he'll gobble up so he gets it in him. I also put some in his water.

That's all for now. He does love his FSL and still seems more alert than the first of the week.

Love to you all

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[luvs squirrels]

No, he doesn't...that's why were going to keep on with what we're doing right now, but still not letting him have the fruit and anything sweet just in case he does have diabetes. He ate some yellow squash just a little bit ago.
:wahoo :alright.gif

He gets so aggrivated with me, I know, but I'm not giving up! And HE'S GONNA EAT THAT RODENT STUFF!!!!!!!!

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[pamela lee]

When my cat had diabetes I had to test her urine with a test strip several times a day to see how much insulin to give her. I'm not sure if the strip tested her glucose levels or her insulin levels but I wonder if you could use those to see if Sammy's levels are still high. Just a thought.

[Pam]

:wave123 Luvs. I agree... listen to your vet. He went to school for many years...probably eight. My husband is a vet and says any mammal can have diabetes. I'm sure if your vet consulted with a vet school, he probably did so at a school that deals with wildlife. I would treat for diabetes and MBD until you know otherwise.

Good luck with the rodent block...if you have any luck getting Sammy to eat it, please pass the tips on to me. My 5 year old squirrel will not eat it. :shakehead

[LynninIN]

I have a couple questions about Sammy. 1. Was he eating more before he became really sick? 2. Was he losing weight? Do you know if the vet tested the urine for ketones?

Urine stripes can be purchased over the counter in many pharmacies or online. If you can catch Sammy's urine then you can test for sugar and see if it's still there.

If you have problems getting the urine, put on your best, most expensive shirt and sit him on your shoulder with the urine stick under him. :)

[luvs squirrels]

pamela lee - That's a great idea about the strips. I'll have to check into that...thanks!

Pam - I am definitely listening to the vet - diabetes is to serious to not take that into consideration. And if I get him to eat the block, I'll let you know my secret! My problem is I can't dip it into anything yummy because of the sugar content in everything yummy. I'm just going to keep stuffing it in his face and maybe, like the cuttle bone, he'll just start eating it!

LynninIN - No, I didn't notice him eating any more. The only thing I noticed was he started drinking a lot more water and then he didn't want to crack open his hazelnut and all he ended up wanting to eat was pears, apple, and hazelnut that I'd cracked open. He did start losing weight, and then didn't want to hop in or out of his bed. I don't know if the vet tested the ketones. All he said was the sugar level was high.

Now for an update.....

Last night he ate a little yellow squash and sweet potato - hadn't done either of those before today. He was grooming himself bigtime - spending time on his tail more that he'd been and was even holding his front legs up a little. He's still weak and not able to walk around. We always had this ritual in the mornings - he'd eat his breakfast on his condo then when he was ready to come onto my lap, he come over to the edge of it and look at me. I'd put him on my lap and when he was ready to get off, he'd hop up in my hand and wanted me to hold him. When he wanted to go back into his room, he'd nibble lightly on my finger. WELL...he hopped into my hand three times last night and nibbled on my finger!!!!!!:wahoo :alright.gif Needless to say, I was SOOOOOOOO excited. I'm trying to keep my head knowing that there could be set backs. And 4skwerlz - when I put the calcium pill in front of him, he actually ate some of it and when I tried to take it away, he grabbed my hand and brought it back to his mouth!!!!! He had a much better appetite last night. I couldn't get him to eat that much this morning, but I'll get him out in a few hours and try again.

Love to all

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[4skwerlz]

What great news! Sounds like Sammy is definitely feeling better. Is he still wobbly?

[luvs squirrels]

He doesn't seem as wobbly, but still doesn't seem like he can lift his back part all that great. Last night was the most active he's been.

[4skwerlz]

He doesn't seem as wobbly, but still doesn't seem like he can lift his back part all that great. Last night was the most active he's been.

As long as he's improving, that's just so great. MBD often affects the back legs the most.

Since it's been a week, I guess it's time to reassess Sammy's diet. Keeping in mind the possibility of diabetes, plus the need for extra calcium in case it is MBD, below is a suggestion for Sammy's diet for the next week, subject to your vet's approval, of course:


Sammy's Diet - Week 2

-Keep trying with rodent block (try Harlan Teklad 2018 Vegetarian Rat Diet)
-Bell peppers, watercress, parsley, broccoli, Chinese cabbage, looseleaf lettuce, and kale for Vit C and calcium.
-Mushrooms for Vit D (as many as he wants).
-Avocado for fat (just a little bit), or any other healthy fats he will eat.
-See if Sammy will eat some freeze-dried mealworms or crickets for fat and protein (order them online).
-Two nuts per day for fat/protein.
-A little cereal (Puffed Rice, Fiber-One, and shredded wheat contain no sugar). Sick squirrels also enjoy a little warm Baby Rice Cereal.
-Other high-calcium/low-phosphorus/no sugar foods from the Diet List.
-Calcium carbonate pills or cuttlebone, and/or calcium powder to be sprinkled on foods. For week 2, you should start keeping track of how much Sammy is getting: no more than 2,000 mg of calcium supplement per week.

-PLUS the sunlight and FSL of course!

[luvs squirrels]

Will do.

Since he hasn't wanted to eat much so far today, I ended up grinding a block of the primate biscuit and mixing about half of it with a little of the glucerna and kind of did the same as I did with the calcuim paste - rubbed it on his gums. He doesn't even want mushrooms so far today. Definitely being stubborn! He has been very alert though and we spent an hour in the sun.

On the 2 nuts per day, should I stick with filberts/hazelnuts (have read they're the best of all nuts) or would maybe half a pecan be ok since they're so much bigger than hazelnuts as one of the two nuts per day?

:thankyou

[LynninIN]

The symptoms Sammy had/has is suggestive of diabetes. There just aren't any long term studies available on the longer living pet squirrels. In all other mammals and rodents studied, diabetes is an illness they can develop as they get older.

For sugar to show up in urine, the blood sugar needs to be fairly high for a longer period of time. Higher than what would normally be seen with the usual mild to moderate elevation due to stress. That is why the vet told you that if he had draw blood the sugar levels may have been high from stress but it should not have shown in the urine.

When glucose (sugar) is eaten and the body is not making insulin, the cells in the body can't use the glucose for energy so it stays in the bloodstream. Since the body can't use the glucose for energy, it sends a signal to the brain that it's starving and wants more food but it can't use the food because there is little insulin. The body then starts to break down muscle to use for energy, the liver breaks down the muscle proteins into glucose. This cycle continues and weight loss occurs. When there is too much glucose in the blood it spills over into the urine. The sugar in the urine attracts water like a sponge so the volume of urine produced goes up. This causes dehydration and therefore they are thirsty.

There are 4 four classic symptoms of diabetes: increased appetite, thirst, increased urination and weight loss. Sammy had at least 3 or the 4 therefore, it certainly could be diabetes.

It would be a good idea to continue to treat both diabetes and MBD. Has your vet suggested a treatment plan of any type?

One of the tools diabetics use is the glycemic index. This assigns a value to foods based on carbohydrates and their effect on the blood glucose levels. The lower the number the better. Here are links to two sites to look up the glycemic value of veggies and fruit. Low glycemic foods are less than 55, intermediate are 55 to 70 and high more than 70.

http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/glycemic-index-food-list.php

http://www.lowglycemicdiet.com/gifoodlist.html

[luvs squirrels]

What great info LynninIN. The vet we've gone to does not specialize in squirrels and he put in a call to a vet school to find out what diet to give Sammy. They said the ONLY thing a squirrel should eat is a rodent block and timothy hay. I can tell you right now he would starve if that's all I would give him. He's being picky today so I've had to resort to grinding up the primate bisquit and adding the glucerna and basically putting it in his mouth! I will get him out again later tonight and if he won't eat what he's been eating the last few days, I will have to do it again. He's got to get nutrition. He's been much more alert today and jumped in my hand again this afternoon.

I had found a site nutritiondata.com that has this information and I've been putting in the different foods for the last several days. I'll check the sites you gave me too.

Originally, when I checked with the vet and faxed him the info 4skwerlz had given as his diet, he didn't have any problem with any of it except the fruit.

:thankyou

[4skwerlz]

Luvs Squirrels was asking about which nuts were healthier, so I thought I would post some info here for everyone to see.


Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio of Nuts/Seeds

For every mg of calcium contained in the food, the number shows how many mgs of phosphorus it contains. For example, for every 1 mg of calcium in an acorn, there are 1.83 mgs of phosphorus, an “inverted ratio” since you want a ratio of at least 1 mg of calcium for every mg of phosphorus. However, acorns aren’t nearly as bad as pine nuts, which contain 32 mgs of phosphorus for every mg of calcium! On the other hand, Chinese cabbage contains only .352 mgs of phosphorus for every mg of calcium. See the veggies below for comparison. Nuts in moderation are good for squirrels, but need to be balanced with high-calcium foods to avoid MBD.

Pumpkin seeds (whole roasted).1.67
Acorns…………………………......………1.83
Almonds………………………….....…….1.85
Pumpkin seeds (whole raw)..……2.25
Hazelnuts……………………………....…2.51
Soy nuts (roasted) ……………………2.63
Macadamia…………………………....…2.8
Walnuts, English………………..…..…3.5
Pecans…………………………..…......…4.15
Pistachio…………………………….....…4.41
Peanuts (roasted) …………….………6.7
Cashews………………………….....…10.69
Sunflower seeds……………….……16.35
Pine nuts………………………….....…32

Chinese cabbage (brassica chinensis)...0.352
Mustard greens (brassica juncea)…..…..0.417
Chicory (chichorium intybus)………...……0.470
Spinach (spinacia oleracea)…………....….0.495
Broccoli (brassica oleracea v. italica)….1.404

[luvs squirrels]

Sammy update

What a great 24 hours!!!!! :crazy :thumbsup

I was concerned with him yesterday morning not wanting to eat much at all, so Mom was mean to Sammy and forced him to eat the mixture of ground up primate biscuit with glucerna in the afternoon.

When I was fixing his supper, I cracked a hazelnut and he heard it and got out of his bed and came to his door. When I put him on my lap, he was soooo excited because he knew he was getting a nut! I haven't seen that much action out of him in weeks. I made him eat the biscuit mixture first though and he did so without any force on my part. He also ate the avocado, mushrooms, a little romaine and zucchini. Lately, he'll usually lay in my lap until I put him in his bed, but last night he jumped into my hand saying he wanted to go to his room. He got into his bed by himself and was so much more alert. He was drinking from his water bottle by himself and loves the calcium tablet (still can't believe that).

He ate more of his biscuit mixture this morning on his own. I got all the stuff ready to go outside for our sunbath and he knew what I was doing. I went to his room and said come on, let's go outside and he got out of his bed and hopped in my hand. He ate more of the biscuit mixture and hopped back into his bed by himself.:wahoo :wott :jump

Does anyone have experience on the freeze-dried mealworms or crickets with their older squirrels wanting to eat them?

Nedless to say, I am a very happy Mom today!

:Love_Icon

[Mars]

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[4skwerlz]

Fantastic news!! I'm so happy for you. :wott

You are doing a wonderful job caring for Sammy.:thumbsup

[anneke]

Sammy update
I was concerned with him yesterday morning not wanting to eat much at all, so Mom was mean to Sammy and forced him to eat the mixture of ground up primate biscuit with glucerna in the afternoon. :Love_Icon


Good Mommys push hard to be sure that those in their care eat what's best for them :thumbsup
And you are a super, good Mommy :thumbsup :thumbsup

Sammy is one lucky critter. :grouphug

[LynninIN]

Great news! :thumbsup

[luvs squirrels]

Thanks for all the :thumbsup

I'm attaching two pictures of Sammy eating his primate biscuit mixture. He has continued to do good. We gave him an uncracked hazelnut last night to see what he'd do. He would chew on it...rest...chew...rest and finally we felt sorry for him and cracked it for him! At least he's wanting to try. Will keep giving it to him that way until he gets it open.

I can't thank everyone enough for their support and prayers. You are all a blessing to me!
:thankyou :thankyou :Love_Icon

[pelohojo]

Awww, Sammy looks so much like my Leeloo! And YAY!! That's such great news! Hooray for Sammy, I know it is doing your heart good to see such improvements!:wahoo

[luvs squirrels]

Sammy update:

He cracked open a hazelnut ALL BY HIMSELF yesterday for the first time in 8 or 9 weeks. He doesn't much like the food on the list either, like pelohojo says of leeloo. He loves the romaine lettuce, avocado and every now and then he'll eat some zucchini and broccoli. He also loves pieces of Total cereal. His appetite has greatly improved yesterday and today. He'll look around for more food, but isn't happy with what mean Mom is providing!!!!! I would love to be able to give him some fruit, but that's a no no. I'll have to try the snap peas to see if he likes them.

4skwerlz, I guess I'm still to give him 2000 of calcium per week? He doesn't want to eat the tablet by itself anymore, so I have to put it in his primate biscuit/glucerna mixture, in his water and on his food. It's hard to put it on his food because I never know from day to day what he'll eat!

Love to you all

:Love_Icon :wott

[Mars]

:thumbsup :jump :thumbsup :jump :thumbsup

:grouphug :bowdown :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Congrats, Sammy, for your hazlenut crackin'!! Yep, I shudder to think what Sammy & Leeloo would concoct together for getting us to pull out our hair over their eating issues, hehe. Actually, the full name is sugar snap peas, so I don't know if they'd be good to introduce - I thought they'd be good (started way back) since they were veggies, but apparently they are one of the *sweetest* vegetables (of course, that's why they love them)...but my babies love them so much and don't really eat other veggies yet, so they are still on the menu here...

[pelohojo]

Hi Luvs! SOOO glad to hear Sammy is doing great too! Hooray!! I did give Leeloo a hazlenut the other day but she didn't even come close to cracking it, I felt like such a meanie....I gave her a 1/2 piece of the nutmeat and she loved it! Yes, I'll drink to your toast....a happy & healthy 2008 for all! :thumbsup :D

[4skwerlz]

Sammy update:
4skwerlz, I guess I'm still to give him 2000 of calcium per week? He doesn't want to eat the tablet by itself anymore, so I have to put it in his primate biscuit/glucerna mixture, in his water and on his food. It's hard to put it on his food because I never know from day to day what he'll eat!
:Love_Icon :wott

How is Sammy doing with his diet? The below was posted a couple of weeks ago. Is he eating any of it?


Sammy's Diet - Week 2

-Keep trying with rodent block (try Harlan Teklad 2018 Vegetarian Rat Diet)
-Bell peppers, watercress, parsley, broccoli, Chinese cabbage, looseleaf lettuce, and kale for Vit C and calcium.
-Mushrooms for Vit D (as many as he wants).
-Avocado for fat (just a little bit), or any other healthy fats he will eat.
-See if Sammy will eat some freeze-dried mealworms or crickets for fat and protein (order them online).
-Two nuts per day for fat/protein.
-A little cereal (Puffed Rice, Fiber-One, and shredded wheat contain no sugar). Sick squirrels also enjoy a little warm Baby Rice Cereal.
-Other high-calcium/low-phosphorus/no sugar foods from the Diet List.
-Calcium carbonate pills or cuttlebone, and/or calcium powder to be sprinkled on foods. For week 2, you should start keeping track of how much Sammy is getting: no more than 2,000 mg of calcium supplement per week.

-PLUS the sunlight and FSL of course!

A couple of comments: Total does contain sugar. Will he eat any of the sugarless cereals I listed above? My squirrels enjoy the KayTee Forti-Diet chow. It contains no fish meal so it doesn't smell fishy like the rodent block. It does contain molasses, so I don't know if it would be okay for Sammy. Maybe you should check with your vet.

Here are the ingredients:

Forti-Diet Mouse & Rat

Kaytee Forti-Diet Mouse & Rat Food (pet block) offers fortified, palatable pellets that small animals love! This wholesome formula provides the essential nutrients to ensure better appearance while enhancing the health of small pets.

Ingredients
Ground Yellow Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Wheat, Ground Oats, Ground Peanuts, sun-cured Alfalfa Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Cane Molasses, Lignin Sulfonate, Corn Sugar, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vegetable Oil, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Beet Pulp, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Ferrous Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), L-Lysine, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Natural Flavoring.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.)...........21.0%
Crude Fat (min.)..................4.5%
Crude Fiber (max.)...............7.0%
Moisture (max.)..................12.0%

You could also try the KayTee Healthy Bits. It is a treat that is similar to a rodent chow, but much tastier. It is fortified with vitamins and minerals. It might get him used to the idea of a kibbled food. Again, it does contain sugar and fruits, so ask your vet. Here are the ingredients:

Hamster & Gerbil Healthy Bits

Kaytee Healthy Bits provide the crunchy, nutritious morsels small animals crave, combined with the essential nutrients they need, into a fun-to-eat crunchy treat. Wholesome ingredients such as, honey, molasses, papaya, carrot, apple, sunflower, and unique seeds, combined with essential nutrients will delight your small animal and promote good health.

Ingredients
Cracked Corn, Peanuts, Wheat, Hulled Millet, Oat Groats, Milo, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Corn, Gelatin, Corn Gluten Meal, Honey, Corn Sugar, Dried Papaya, Dehydrated Carrots, Safflower, Ground Oats, Ground Wheat, Wheat Middlings, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Whole Egg, Dehydrated Apples, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Salt, Corn Oil, Wheat Germ Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, L-Lysine, Cane Molasses, DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin A Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Carbonate, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement, Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Copper Oxide, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Folic Acid, Dried A. oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Artificial Color.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.) 17.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 10.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 5.0%
Moisture (max.) 12.0%

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

:thumbsup :grouphug :alright.gif :alright.gif :Love_Icon :Love_Icon
Looks like things are..going great now!!:alright.gif :jump :wahoo :wott

[luvs squirrels]

Sammy is doing so great! :thumbsup

I'm still grinding up the bisquit and putting in his calcium and the glucerna. He eats some of that three times a day. I've also found out that he likes malt-o-meal (cooked with nothing added). I will put a little of that in his mixture in the morning for his breakfast feeding and he loves it. He's been eating some broccoli, zuchinni, sweet potato, plain mini shredded wheat, romaine, carrot and avocado. I'm doing the 1200 calcium per week as you instructed. He doesn't want to eat it by itself right now, so it goes into his mixture. He only has about 2 flakes of Total a day. I alternate between an acorn and half a pecan every other day for variety and he always has his hazelnut in the morning so he can keep those teeth trimmed.

He'll now get in and out of his bed to drink water when he's thirsty.

Here are a couple pictures of him - one peeking out of his bed and the other on Christmas day eating his hazelnut...notice his stocking was hung and was full of nuts...he must have been a very good boy.

:wott

[Mars]

:jump :thumbsup :jump

[island rehabber]

What a gorgeous boy.....what a happy story!!! :thumbsup :) :thumbsup

[LynninIN]

Sammy looks great. :thumbsup He's such a cute foxer boy!!

[4skwerlz]

I'm so so glad Sammy continues to improve! He definitely has a sparkle in his eye now. Sounds like he's doing great eating his healthy new foods like a good boy. You guys have done a fantastic job nursing him back to health. :thumbsup
:wott :wott :wott

[luvs squirrels]

When my cat had diabetes I had to test her urine with a test strip several times a day to see how much insulin to give her. I'm not sure if the strip tested her glucose levels or her insulin levels but I wonder if you could use those to see if Sammy's levels are still high. Just a thought.


I purchased a box of ReliOn Ketone test strips yesterday at Wal-Mart. I tested Sammy's urine last night before his last feeding and this morning before his breakfast and they both came back negative. I'm just not sure if a squirrel's urine would be the same or not. Anyone have any info on that????

Thanks, and I'm happy to say Sammy is doing great!

:thumbsup :crazy :wahoo

[foxsquirrels]

This is a great thread that everyone should read. I was not on this board when this was written so I enjoyed reading it very much. This seems to be a common problem.

[luvs squirrels]

This is a great thread that everyone should read. I was not on this board when this was written so I enjoyed reading it very much. This seems to be a common problem.

Boy, what a surprise to see this thread back up. It does seem to be a common problem. Sammy T's vet had also seen it before in another squirrel he'd treated. 4skwerlz changed up the recommended diet for squirrels partly because of my sweet little man.

Unfortunately, his diabetes came back full force and he went to wait for me at Rainbow Bridge on January 21st of this year.

Hopefully, one day there will be research done on this subject.

:Love_Icon

[foxsquirrels]

I am so sorry Luvs. Diabetes is something that I have studied in humans and animals. It has become so prevalent in our human population. Unfortunately, it looks like it is also becoming something to really look at with our squirrels. There is also evidence in foundered horses that diabetes may be a factor. I've had 4 cats and 2 dogs over the last 20 years with diabetes. All were on insulin and all were treated differently. I speak to a vet at UC Davis University quite often when I have something come up that I can't explain and have no clue about. I'll have to ask him if they study wildlife also.

[luvs squirrels]

That would be great. Seems, like you said, to be a common problem. It really does need to be studied.

I know there was another thread that was started by Tomo about one of her squirrels having diabetes. They treated the squirrel with natural herbs, etc and the last I had heard it was no longer having the high sugar levels. :crazy

Here's the thread. I'm sure you will find this very interesting.

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10812

:wave123

[foxsquirrels]

Thanks, I'll go read it right now.

[sadiesmom]

This was my first time reading this thread as well, and it has totally given me more insight and ideas on how to help Sadie out with her possible MBD. Although she is continuing to improve each and every day, I don't think it would hurt to purchase mineral block for her just to have.

I really am sorry that so many of our fuzz-loves develop MBD (as well as other ailments), but experiencing and posting about these tragic events is the only way some of us can learn. I cannot tell you how many times I have needed advice about something squirrel related and have ran to the board for help. I'm so thankful that this board exists, or else some of our babies wouldn't...