Adult squirrel in crisis!!

[pelohojo]

I am so scared that I have found your site too late. Our beautiful 9 year old red tree squirrel Leeloo seems to have had some kind of "episode" on Wednesday night. She was hunched over, and had intermittent "hiccup" type movements, listing to the side, but with no sound to them. And seemed weak, lethargic. I didn't know what to do but keep her warm and hope it would pass. I stayed with her pretty much all night. And of course the next day was Thanksgiving. My regular vet is out of town & unreachable until Monday morning. Took her to the substitute vet, he gave her 50 ml of lactated ringers, he doesn't know anything about squirrels, never treated except injured wild ones. At first she seemed to perk up from the fluids, even ate a little, but then was worse than before. Took her to a highly recommended exotic vet a few cities away & she took an x-ray, saw nothing but gas in stomach. Gave her a shot of Baytril & steroid. Gave me liquid of the 2, plus anti-gas to give her. Substitute vet had given me some critical care powder food & she said to give her that too. Neither she or the substitute vet have any idea what is wrong. Too weak to draw blood. So hard to give her the doses & liquid food, she doesn't want to eat. But did drink quite a bit today. But she now is so weak, she is like a noodle in my hands. And this evening she has started a wet sounding hairball-type cough, like she is trying to clear her airway or lungs. There has started some milky discharge on one of her eyes too.

We've had her since she was weeks old, a rescue & rehabilitation, but became a member of our family. She lives indoors with her brother (who is not exhibiting anything), we feed her mainly rodent blocks, snap peas, grapes, sometimes we try and get them to eat other veggies, and the occasional peanut. They have a window, but I'm reading that even single pane glass filters beneficial UV? Could this be MBD? Having the local expert say there is no way to know what it can be, and her getting progressively worse, this is so, so horrible and breaking our hearts.

I have found scary things on the net, trying to figure it out myself, and now found you....have you heard of these symptoms like this? I asked if it could be diabetes, but apparently that is too rare to consider, and would need blood to confirm. She has gone from appearing totally healthy on Wednesday afternoon, to looking like she will die any second on my lap right now.

Any experienced insight and suggestions/recommendations would surely be appreciated. I of course can't take her to the emergency clinic, even if I could, if the local expert has no idea what is wrong, they sure won't.

Thanks so much,
Colleen

[LynninIN]

Has Leeloo been around any dogs or cats?

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Does your squirrel get direct sunshine, not through a window or screen?
If not you need to get a full spectrum light as quickly as possible!! Can you get Esbillac tonight? Its a puppy formula carried by pet stores and vets? If so get as much into the squirrel as possible by syringe, or put a dab of heavy whipping cream in with it and he may drink it willingly. Also if Esbillac isnt available try Vanilla Ensure with extra calcium. The light is imperative, keep him confined to a small area/cage squirrels with MBD are prone to breaks. (If this is MBD) Also get him on a heating pad, the warmth would feel wonderful. Goodluck others will be along with more suggestions. Did he have any injuries when he was a baby as in a fall from tree? I would treat this as MBD untill you find out otherwise.

[thundersquirrel]

i'm sorry, but i doubt this is MBD. you've had her for nine years- clearly she's gotten the nutrients she needed her whole life. unless you made any major changes in her diet or sun/FSL exposure in the past six months.

it sounds like a respiratory problem. if she was too weak to sit up when you gave her the baytril, it's possible the baytril is hurting her organs right now. antibiotics can be rough on the insides if the animal is very very weak.

if i were you, i'd PM our member named Mars- she may have a homeopathic remedy that would help to clear up leeloo's lungs. homeopathic remedies aren't rough on the body, even a weak one.

also, be careful how you handle her- she's small, and if she's weak, she needs extra caution in handling. make sure she's always warm to the touch, but don't heat her too much in case she can't get off the heat.

finally, keep in mind- nine years is a long, long time. she is getting old, and her immunity may not be as strong as it used to be. don't give up on her, but remember that she's not as young as she once was.

hope this helps. :Love_Icon

[TexanSquirrel]

Poor baby! I hope everthing turns out alright!

[pelohojo]

Thank you for your replies -

She gets sunshine but mostly thru a window. On nice days we open up the window & they get sunshine thru the screen. I'm reading this is not enough, but would MBD manifest at 9 years old?? I did go to the 24 hour grocery store & got a Reveal light that said "full spectrum" on it but I have my doubts it really is?

Her nest was cut down by landscapers & she fell in a pool & was rescued by homeowner but almost drowned. Nursed back to health, but that was 9 years ago! She has been nothing but 100% healthy appearing all 9 years....

Yes, we have 2 cats, and Leeloo has been around them all her life. They are 100% indoor cats.

Do you think Esiblac or Ensure would be better than the Critical Care from the vet? I have some calcium reptile powder, would that be safe? I don't know if she would swallow any liquids...but she did drink a lot earlier today, so maybe, but want to make sure I am giving the best most potent, I don't feel we have much time. She is on my lap & I am keeping her warm.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Esbillac would be good untill you get a proper light, they need vitamin D from sun or Full spectrum lighting to process the calcium that their bodies require.
I dont think MBD has an age limit, I would treat like it has MBD just in case.
Esbillac is for babies but it has vit. D in it so he will absorb it right away.
MBD takes a few weeks to see a difference with proper care, some say they see changes in a few days.
Sunlight through a window or screen isnt good enough unfortunately. Maybe others will have more thoughts.

[pelohojo]

Thanks, Thundersquirrel - I don't know how to PM?

Yes, I am holding her, as she can't move much at all. Warmth from my hand, too worried to use heat pad. This didn't seem to be respiratory at all to start, only now starting this evening. I'm afraid I let her drink too much water? From a small animal water bottle she had to lick to drink from. But she drank a lot. These coughs/hairball heaves seem to be hard on her being so weak. I was told to administer Baytril 2x day, and did this evening. The respiratory seemed to happen after all the dosing (Baytril, steroid, anti-gas, Critical Care food and water)

I know 9 isn't a youngster anymore, but SOMETHING happened to her, and if only we can find out what it was and how to fix it!! Her brother seems to be totally fine, just worried about his sister....

[muffinsquirrel]

By all means, PM Mars and see if she has any suggestions. I hope you are able to find something that works.

muffinsquirrel

[LynninIN]

Critical Care is fine.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein min 16.00%
Crude fat min 3.20%
Crude fiber min 21.00%
Crude fiber max 25.00%
Calcium min 0.40%
Calcium max 0.60%
Phosphorus min 0.25%
Iron ppm 184
Copper ppm 5
Zinc ppm 64
Niacin mg/kg 42
Vitamin A IU/kg 12,000
Vitamin B12 mg/kg 50
Vitamin D IU/kg 660
Vitamin E mg/kg 110
Vitamin C mg/g 10
Digestible Energy kcal/g 2.69

[pelohojo]

Thanks, rippie-n-lilgirlsmom, my husband is on his way to get some Esbillac now. The prescription stuff didn't work, and now I'm worried may have made things worse. She is such a sweet and gentle squirrel, it breaks our heart to see her like this and feel so helpless.

The breathing issue has me very worried. If she is not swallowing, can I aspirate her with the Esbillac if I try and give it to her?

Thanks everyone, it is so hard to not have anywhere to go to get help for our little one...

[pelohojo]

Thanks, Lynn. She didn't eat much of the Critical Care. We had been hoping the medication and her drinking the water would perk her up and she would eat more. If it is MBD, would Esbillac be better? And if it is something else, could it harm her to give it to her? We have considered everything...MBD, diabetes, brain tumor, stroke, bite by a poison spider or she ate one, toxiplasmosis, encephilitis, on & on.....she is just so weak....

[Mars]

If she is not swallowing , yes you can aspirate her. You must go very slowly - at her pace.

[Mars]

Would you ladies like to join me in chat? Let's see if we can sort this out. :)

[island rehabber]

I was off line last night and just reading this now -- how is Leeloo this morning?

[Buddy'sMom]

pelohojo, you are in good hands with the people who have responded. I hope that Leeloo is doing better this morning! :Love_Icon

And .... :Welcome

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Beene]

Hi pelohojo. Our wild squirrel Schnuffel had similar symptoms some months ago, the hunched attitude, 'hiccup' movements etc, at first without any sound. Soon after she developed severe respiratory problems with wheezing/sneezing/coughing and she became very weak, we thought we might lose her. Then she disappeared for about 10 days and when she returned she had no symptoms at all!!! She had apparently cured herself by retreating to her drey and, guessing from her thin appearance, by fasting a good deal. Unfortunately, I don't have any advice for you as I'm not a vet/rehabber, I just want to say GOOD LUCK to you and your little friend!!! :grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

Hows Leeloo..doing this morning??
Im keeping my fingers crossed for you!!:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Hi all, thank you everyone again for all your support and advice. We took Leeloo to the emergency vet last night, but they had no familiarity with squirrels. I asked for the calcium shot, and the vet called her network of vets and talked to one experienced with squirrels and consulted veterinary manuals. And decided Leeloo definitely didn't have MBD. She said her xray showed healthy bones, that if she was deficient in calcium she would have a lowered heart rate. She took her glucose level and compared to normal for a cat, hers was normal. E. Vet thought squirrels would be closer in markers to cats than dogs and they had no database for squirrels. She said she wouldn't know what a normal calcium level was for squirrels, or what dose to give her. She said if Leeloo wasn't calcium deficient, giving her an injection of calcium would cause a heart attack. So we had to bring Leeloo home, no help there.

This morning I talked with the exotic vet who saw her Friday. She confirmed she didn't believe it was MBD. Again, healthy bones in xray, plus she said MBD is diet related and would have shown up way before 9 years, and not sudden onset, typ. in young squirrels and would be bone issues.

She also ruled out parapoxvirus. The E. vet thought this was possible but again, she has no experience & was reading symptoms out of a book. Leeloo has been indoors all her life since we got her at weeks old.

I forgot to mention, there has been some unusual eye movement. Exotic vet thinks it is a neurological problem, a kind of encephilitis or cancer in her brain. That she is a geriatric squirrel, and cancers do happen to squirrels just like people. Exotic vet said she doesn't think it is bacterial, thus the antibiotics won't show improvement. She gave them to me just as a try since no idea what's wrong. She had hoped the steroid would show some improvement at least by now.

Leeloo is about the same this morning. but not hacking/cough any more. breathing seems totally normal now. And she did drink some pedialyte. We don't know if we should continue to force the medicine in her? continue to keep her warm and try to feed her the Critical Care and pedialyte? She does not appear to be in any pain, or feeling upset or stressed. But she is completely limp and not moving. Thanks for the encouraging story, Beene, what I wouldn't give for this to be like that for Leeloo. My husband and I are talking about, how if we are knocked off our feet by the flu or something, it can take a week before we even are halfway able to sit up. We're thinking about maybe she just needs more time, supportive care and rest? But then if it's cancer...again, not knowing what it is & how to help her is so hard!

Just giving you all the latest, you were so good to us last night. and in case anyone has found any revelations since i was here.

thanks again all...

Colleen & Sol & Leeloo

[4skwerlz]

Good morning Pelo,

I'm so sorry LeeLoo is still so sick....:grouphug You have certainly done EVERYTHING a loving owner could possibly do for your squirrel. Supportive care and continuing the antibiotics sounds good for now. If we have anymore ideas we will let you know. Meanwhile, prayers and hugs for all of you. :grouphug

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Do you want to try to find an exotic vet to take her to, or refer your vet to talk to?

[pelohojo]

Hi AtlantaSquirrelGirl, I did take Leeloo to Dr. Mimi Shepherd, the local exotics expert - she's the one who took her xray and gave her the steroids & antibiotics. Do you have a different exotic vet who may know more about squirrels?
Thanks, Colleen

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Here is another list of exotic vets, and you can search Georgia specifically.

http://aemv.org/vetlist.cfm

PM me and tell me the part of GA you are in and I'll make some calls. It may be tonight before I can reach anybody.

[pelohojo]

Thanks, Gammas Baby for posting the diet information. We feed them Kaytee Forti-Diet (for mouse, rat & hamster) as per our original vet. Do you think one of the other rodent blocks you listed would be better?

Also, thank you for the pm info - my husband is more savvy than me & actually showed me how last night.

Thanks for the link, Atlantasquirrelgirl.

I have put a large full spectrum light over Leeloo now, covering her eyes. Will she absorb through all her thick fur? She has a much lusher, thicker coat than grey squirrels.

Mars is helping me with a homeopathic remedy of calcarea carbonica, thank you Mars!

Scared to hope, but still hoping big time anyway....thanks so much, you guys have really been there for us. We love our "furbabies" as much as our human family members (and in some cases, more, haha) and really appreciate all your advice and compassion.

[Lady Squirrelly]

I have been following this thread.

Sending love and prayers for your precious furbaby.

:grouphug :Love_Icon

[thundersquirrel]

so sorry things are so confusing and scary. we will keep our thoughts and prayers with you and leeloo. :grouphug

a motto i think you should follow right now is do no harm. since we aren't sure what's causing these problems, it may be best to only do what you know won't hurt her. we know that warmth, fluids, rest, and homeopathic remedies are generally harmless. as far as antibiotics and other things go....i'm not sure if you should continue until you know more about her condition.

if it is cancer, there's not much you can do unless you can feel a tumor on a part of her body that isn't vital to her survival (i had a rat with cancer, once, and her tumor was on her lower stomach- we were able to surgically remove it).

perhaps it's time to rely on her natural immunity. if she has made it to adulthood, she has faced a lot of tough bacteria in her time, and was evolutionarily capable of fighting it. hopefully she can do the same with whatever is affecting her. :Love_Icon

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I've passed along another contact via PM, which has a squirrel vet in the area. Please keep us updated.

[pelohojo]

Thank you for the contact, Atlantasquirrelgirl.

Thank you Lady Squirrelly for your positivity and prayers.

I know, I agree thundersquirrel, but that is so hard! Some advise keeping up the antibiotics & steroid as prescribed, others are worried it may do her harm. She is drinking some pedialyte on her own now so hopefully keeping hydrated. The vets - all 3 - are against me giving her calcium, but I did it all last night and am giving her the calcarea carbonica homeopathic remedy, trusting you guys here.

I am borrowing the full spectrum light from my bird for Leeloo right now, and will get 2 more ASAP so everyone has one. I'm assuming cats don't need it? but at this point I feel I should ask, cuz I should have known about the squirrels needing it. :( Can she absorb through her fur or does it absorb through her eyes? Is there any particular full spectrum lighting system you all recommend? (bulb brand, size, strength, distance from baby, etc.)

Thank you Gammas Baby - you list rodent blocks as composing 50% of squirrel diet, but you don't feed Baby them? (is your icon a picture of Baby? So adorable....) Lots of cute squirrel pics you guys have...

Many, many thanks -

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

I am pm'ing you a vet you may want to contact in Fla, maybe if you could even talk to him over the phone...he was a vet of a TSB member he is very knowledgable in squirrels and who knows its a long shot ...may be able to give you some info. I am keeping your red boy in my prayers!:Love_Icon

[Buddy'sMom]

"KayTee Forti-Diet" is one of the brands of "rodent block" that has been recommended by our rehabbers. (Not all squirrels will actually eat the stuff :D but it's recommended, anyway)

About the fur and the full spectrum light -- that question has been raised by others as well and is a good question -- one that we don't have a very good answer to. :thinking EXCEPT that squirrels in the wild manage to get the UV light they need, even through their fur. So we have to assume that they will get it even if it comes from a light bulb. There has been some discussion that they might actually convert it through their eyes, rather than their skin as humans would.

You are doing great!! :thumbsup Many crossed fingers and healing thoughts for Leeloo.

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[My Little Trouble]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/ozonetraveler/snugglesquirrel.gif Adding my very best wishes for Leeloo and her loving family,
keeping all of you in my heart.

[Pam]

:Welcomepelohojo!

I'm thinking of you and praying for Leeloo. :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Wow, I am so bummed I didn't know about you guys a long time ago! Sometimes the no-brainer "duh" things in life end up getting missed. I should have searched for a squirrel-lover group years ago. So glad I found you now!

Thank you for the contact, rippie-n-lilgirlsmom.

And thank you Pam and My Little Trouble for your loving energy and prayers.

Thank you, Buddy's Mom - I have one of those long tube fluorescent type full spectrum lights right on top of Leeloo's box right now. I think I will get one of those tall lamps with a downward facing bulb that can be higher/farther away from her. She has her eyes covered (they love to sleep snuggled up to each other, under their mini-blankets) so I am concerned that the light is not doing good this way. And yes, finicky babies seem to be all I have *smile* Thank you for your kind wishes for us..

Gamma's Baby, okay, that makes sense, thank you for clarifying! It is funny how like little children they are, fussy eaters especially when we are trying to feed them what is good for them. Oh my gosh, Baby is adorable! How in the world did you ever "Baby-proof" your house?

I just found Leeloo biting on the towel in her cage, for the 2nd time. Like she wants to chew. She is probably starving! We just put some of the vanilla ensure in her lick-bottle and she drank pretty enthusiastically. I am having a very hard time force feeding her the Critical Care, she won't swallow it. Is it safe to feed her the ensure for awhile to get her some nutrients in her?

Also, a dear friend of mine just helped me remember - we had used cedar shavings at the bottom of their enclosure all their lives. Until a couple of months ago, when we changed to aspen shavings because I read that cedar can be harmful. She has recommended Carefree Pet Bedding which is paper based, and I feel we need to do this. Have any of you heard of bad reactions to the aspen shavings? And although the cedar is supposed to be bad, they seemed fine with us using it for the 8+ years until our switch. Boy that would be ironic.

She also mentioned Baylisascaris, which she tells me has symptoms like what Leeloo has. So I'm going to try and get a fecal sample to our vet, though they dry out real quickly, I wonder if they have to be fresh?

I was able to take the day off from work today, but won't be able to tomorrow... :(

[4skwerlz]

Hi Pelo,

I was one of folks trying help last night....

I am thrilled that Leeloo is still hanging in there. To answer your questions, animals with fur or feathers make the Vit D in their fur/feathers in response to sunlight. Then when they groom or preen, they actually ingest the Vit D.

As far as the KayTee diet, it seems to be okay, but what else was Leeloo eating? Even though that food seems to be balanced, if a squirrel eats a lot of other unbalanced foods, they could still get MBD. Another big factor with Leeloo would also be the lack of natural sunlight/FSL. BTW, sunlight is MUCH more powerful than any FSL, so if you could take her outside, in the shade, and sit with her in your lap for as long as possible, she will get a much bigger dose of UVB rays. On the other hand, it sounds like she may be too weak to groom herself right now.

I know we don't really know what's wrong with Leeloo, but in case it IS MBD, it is curable in all but the final stages, and most importantly, the "cure" won't hurt her. I heard what the vet said, but well, we just find that even the best vets know so little about the common health problems of pet squirrels, like MBD....

Below is a bit more info on the calcium issue in squirrels, and also some more info on diet:

The Calcium:Phosphorus Ratio

Calcium and phosphorus “compete” for absorption in the body. For every gram of phosphorus ingested in the diet, the body must match that with another gram of calcium before the phosphorus can be absorbed through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream. If the required calcium is not available from the diet, the body will obtain it from wherever it can---such as from the storage depots in the bones.

This is where the whole idea of calcium-phosphorus ratios comes in. The purpose of calculating such a ratio is to make sure that for every gram of phosphorus you're feeding, you're feeding AT LEAST an equal amount of calcium (a 1:1 ratio or better), so that calcium isn't being continually mobilized from bones. Most nutritionists recommend that the ideal levels are somewhere between 1.2-2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus.

This is why it does little good to feed “high-calcium” foods unless they are also low phosphorus. For example, almonds contain 251 mg of calcium per 28 grams; however, they contain 460 mg of phosphorus! For every 28 gram serving of almonds, your squirrel would LOSE 209 grams of calcium! The squirrel would have to eat 209 grams of extra calcium somewhere else, just to break even.

Common Mistakes
Here are the most common mistakes, diet-wise, made by people with pet squirrels:

--Lack of Vitamin D. There are only two ways to get Vitamin D: 1) Sunshine (or FSL), and 2) from the foods eaten. Unfortunately, only meats and fish typically contain Vitamin D. This is one reason why we recommend eggs in the diet. One exception is: mushrooms! They are one of the few non-meat foods that are high in Vit D. In the wild, squirrels eat a lot of them. Another (man-made) exception is milk products. In the U.S., nearly all milk is fortified with Vit D, so cheese, yogurt, etc., contain Vit D.
--Too many nuts. Every nut has an inverted calcium/phosphorus ratio. Some are worse than others; acorns are the best, but still have more phos than calc, resulting in calcium loss.
--Feeding sunflower seeds, corn, and pine nuts. Terrible calc/phos ratios; much worse even than nuts (a ratio of 32:1 for pine nuts!)
--Not feeding a balanced rodent chow/monkey chow as at least 50% of the diet.
--Lack of protein and fat. In the wild, squirrels eat bugs, maggots, carrion, and birds eggs. We encourage pet squirrel owners to include eggs (scrambled or hard-boiled) as well as yogurt, cheese, and other high-fat, high-protein foods.

[Pam]

pelohojo, I was looking at the site of the vet clinic that saw Leeloo over Thanksgiving. The vet that saw her was an avian specialist...I'm wondering if the vet that sees praire dogs and sugar gliders in the group might could review the other vet's findings.

[pelohojo]

Hi Pam - yes, the exotic vet specializes in birds above all else, but also exotics. I think both vets don't think Leeloo has a chance, but would probably be willing to share their findings with another vet who has more experience with squirrels - both are very nice.

Hi 4skwerlz, yes, thank you so much for all your help last night with everyone! I was telling my husband earlier how much it meant to me that everyone was so welcoming, open and compassionate, and willing to help, having never known me before yesterday. What a wonderful group of caring people I am so lucky to have found you.

Mars - I don't know if it was the calcarea or the ensure, but I do see some improvement! It is subtle, but I will take anything at this point. She tried to lift her head a little, and there was a little resistance in her hind legs for the first time in days. So in case it was the calcarea, I didn't give her more, like you said. *hopeful smile*

She seems to like the vanilla high calcium ensure, and I know she is so depleted in nutrients, having not eaten pretty much for days. And she was a very healthy eater before she got sick. (Leeloo would always get up early and pick out her favorite parts of her meal, Chipper her brother loves to sleep in. So these few days, he's actually getting to eat parts of his meal he doesn't snag much...)

Is the Ensure okay to feed her instead of the Critical Care since she is eating the Ensure? It says it supplies 50% RDA of calcium and vitamin D, but also says it has 500 mg potassium (14% RDA), is that the right balance like 4skwerlz described?

I'm totally focused on doing everything I can to pull Leeloo through this right now, but I very much look forward to visiting all around this board after Leeloo is safe & sound again!

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

In my rehabber book Wild Baby Mammels, Ensure is suggested for a sick adult, also the product you have. At this point it's whatever you can get into him. I have an adult I give Esbilac to just to make sure shes getting enough calcium.
You can use any flavor Ensure except chocolate.
You can also slightly warm it.:thumbsup

[4skwerlz]

Is the Ensure okay to feed her instead of the Critical Care since she is eating the Ensure? It says it supplies 50% RDA of calcium and vitamin D, but also says it has 500 mg potassium (14% RDA), is that the right balance like 4skwerlz described?

Don't worry too much about what's in the Ensure nutritionally--she needs calories right now. Can you try a little molasses on her tongue? It has the sugar she needs, PLUS tons of calcium.

Since the vets' diagnoses are still in doubt (brain tumors don't usually improve.....) I think it's wise to continue to treat for MBD, however unlikely, since it won't hurt, unless and until someone comes up with an alternative diagnosis. While continuing to pursue all other diagnostic ideas, of course.

So, as mentioned, molasses is a very concentrated source of calcium, particularly "blackstrap molasses." Also, Leeloo may like some yogurt. If you have some plain calcium pills or powder on hand (not RepCal as it seems to taste bad), you can "spike" whatever she's eating with it.

The vet is correct that a direct injection of calcium into the vein can stop the heart. However, ingesting a lot of calcium for a few days is very unlikely to harm Leeloo.

We are all pulling for LeeLoo! :grouphug

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Just one more thing it points out that you need to give 2 weeks to see a difference, sometimes you can see a difference sooner. But whatever the outcome he will always need to be treated like he is now with the calcium & light.:Love_Icon

[pelohojo]

Thank you for confirming, rippie-n-lilgirlsmom - the bottle says to serve very cold but I had already decided against that! And as long as she gets better, I have all the patience in the world (and at least one credit card I haven't maxed out!)

Hi 4skwerlz - I have come to believe that part of her "not swallowing" is her refusing to swallow! She is doing fine swallowing with the Ensure! She hated the molasses, I had to force it. Hopefully the Ensure is providing the sugar and calcium - it seems like a milkshake. We actually had to pull the bottle away from her this evening because we are worried about her over-doing it!!

Thank you, Gamma's Baby - I am taking what you and others say as compassionate education. I know you all mean well for me and want to do all you can to help Leeloo, so no worries, I am not taking your advice the wrong way. That is horrible about the towel accident. We immediately took out the towel from Leeloo and cut up one of our soft flannel blankets for her. She seemed to really like it too. :)

Yes, my wonderful friend has advised me about the wood shavings, I'll be using the link she gave me to get a replacement. I guess we thought wood would be good and natural for squirrels...*sigh*

We are continuing the baytril and prednisone, as we are not sure what all may be helping her (small but super meaningful) improvement.

It's going to be an anxiety-filled day having to leave her in the morning and be gone all day at work. She has been sleeping safely each night (contrary to my fears) so hopefully all will be well during the day too, even when I am not looking in on her every 20 minutes.

Have a good night everyone, thank you all again for everything, and I do so look forward to her getting all better and me being able to share some wonderful baby stories with you...

:thankyou

[fotheloveofsquirrels]

You are doing a great job. DOn't get down about the mistakes of the past; we, all make them; and we all learn from them. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your little Leeloo.

:Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[wdarmac]

:grouphug Sorry to hear your little one is ill, I recently lost my 7 yr old junior, he became sick and that was the first time he had been sick, but like alot of folks on here did not know about the full spectrum lighting. Some of the symptoms you list about Leeloo sound like some junior had, a month or so before he became ill he did the heaving and spitting up some kind of phelm, but he seemed fine after that, I was using a full spectrum light (I thought), but it wasnt what he needed, and was also giving him antibiotics. I had also ordered a homeopathic remedy but received it to late as junior passed away that morning and I received it in the mail that afternoon. He ate fine that night before and the next morning he ate well, he passed away between 11:00 and 12:00 that day. It sounds like you are on the right track with Leeloo and I pray she gets well and believe me I know how you feel right now, you just want her to be well. MBD shows no preference when it comes to age, we also lost Julie our female in July to MBD she was 1 yr. old, that was when I found these great people, but I didnt find them soon enough. I believe you have and my prayers are with you and Leeloo.:grouphug :grouphug

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Good morning, the only reason behind warming the Ensure is to make it more palatable. If he likes it cold so be it, thats how I woud serve it also.:bowdown
Try not to worry to much today he is getting is nutrition & light..and thats all that can be done, we all are keeping good thoughts for even a small improvement each day...we will take anything we can get.:grouphug :Love_Icon

[jules]

Sorry to hear that Leeloo is poorly. Hope all goes well!

There are lots of people on here that have been through what you are now going through, but there is still hope, so hang on in there!

We are all here for you!:thumbsup

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[squiggs]

Good morning, I just read all about your story, I am so sorry, it must be horrible the fear you guys are going through, I will put you in my prayers...keep us posted...:grouphug :grouphug

[rygel1hardt]

Hey Gammas Baby have you tried the Harlan Teklad lab block? I use the vegetarian 2018 formula and it has been accepted very well here. If you will send me your address privately I will send you a sample to try. Dont think I sell this stuff or make any kind of money from it cause I dont! I buy it from www.thecraftyrat.com Stacey



Well....rodent block and monkey biscuits have been a failure. :( I do my best at trying to get Baby to eat them, but I have had very little success. :icon_devil She HATES them! :hissyfit I now make her "goodies", such as "critter scones", and "cookies" (recipies from on here) with them crushed into the mixture to try and disguise them. Sometimes it works :D, and sometimes it doesn't :(. I'm sorry, I should have made myself clear.....along with the fruits and veggies, they should also have rodent block and monkey biscuits. :alright.gif

Yes, that's Baby in my Avatar. :Love_Icon :Love_Icon She runs free in the house, and is "one of us". :D I have pics of her all over this board. :flash3 Baby would like to welcome you to TSB!!

[Secret Squirrel]

The only way I get my kidz to eat rodent block is to start them on it before thier eyes open.
I just leave it for them to explore and nibble on as they grow. The first few weeks I am throwing way urin soaked blocks....yuck!!! But before too long they make a nice sandy beach of rodent block shavings....then they start to eat it. :wahoo
A hungry squirrel will eat rodent block but you have to take all other food away.....I wouldn't waist my time trying to get an adult to eat it...chances are they won't.
Ya can't unspoil a spoiled squirrel....unless you are ready to fight!!!! LOL!!!!! Man are squirrels stubborne !!!!:peace

[4skwerlz]

How is LeeLoo today?

[pelohojo]

Hi 4skwerlz & everyone!

Well, after a work day full of me worrying like crazy (okay, it was closer to panic by the end of the day, I admit), I got home & Leeloo was okay. Whew, sure wish I lived close enough to work to check in on her at least at lunchtime. We had worried, because she drank quite a bit of Ensure last night but had not peed. She also drank alot this morning and no pee. But during the day while we were at work, she had peed. Only seeing 2 or 3 poops.

Should we be giving her pedialyte or water in addition to the Ensure, or does the Ensure provide the necessary hydration?

It is all relative, but we can definitely feel/see improvement!! She still isn't moving around really, but she doesn't feel quite so limp. And seems more aware, and stronger, and wanting to right herself instead of lying on her side. I gave her some more Ensure when I got home from work, and she slept a few hours, and we just gave her her evening med doses & more ensure - she's drinking a lot of it, she seems really hungry. I figure the Ensure is giving her nutrients for her to build up her strength. She's sleeping again now, it seems like a nice little routine of recovery for now, such a HUGE difference from just 2 nights ago. We don't know if it is the calcium + light, the antibiotics, the steroids, or whatever, that is helping her recover. But I truly do believe, that without the help of all you wonderful, loving squirrel lovers, we would not be seeing her starting to get better. We are scared to hope, but can't help it, for a full recovery for her. It may take weeks, but we have all the patience in the world!

We held her up to Chipper for a few minutes & let them sniff each other. We know they miss each other, and we hope that helps encourage them and ward off any depression.

Thank you Squiggs and Jules and fortheloveofsquirrels for your encouragement and well-wishes.

I agree with you, rippie-n-lilgirlsmom, she likes it much better not cold. That's why I was ignoring the "serve very cold" suggestion on the bottle. That didn't seem like a good plan at all, especially for her right now!

wdarmac, I'm so sorry about your loss of Junior, that is awful. And your little Julie too - having these angels share their lives with us is such a wonderful gift, but so heartbreaking when they leave us, especially before their time. Although it is never long enough, is it. That is so scary they can seem okay, eating fine, and then pass away like that. Thank you for your positive thoughts and prayers.

Thank you again, everyone's help and encouragement has been so heartwarming and meaningful. I hope to continue to report on good progress every day, until the day she is 100% back to her healthy little squirrel self!
:)

[Mars]

:thumbsup :Love_Icon :thumbsup

[4skwerlz]

Hi 4skwerlz & everyone!

We had worried, because she drank quite a bit of Ensure last night but had not peed. She also drank alot this morning and no pee. But during the day while we were at work, she had peed. Only seeing 2 or 3 poops.
She may have been dehydrated, so she won't pee until she rehydrates. Dehydration also means they poop less.


Should we be giving her pedialyte or water in addition to the Ensure, or does the Ensure provide the necessary hydration?
She should have access to water. Do you know how to check for dehydration?


It is all relative, but we can definitely feel/see improvement!! She still isn't moving around really, but she doesn't feel quite so limp. And seems more aware, and stronger, and wanting to right herself instead of lying on her side. I gave her some more Ensure when I got home from work, and she slept a few hours, and we just gave her her evening med doses & more ensure - she's drinking a lot of it, she seems really hungry.

That is GREAT news. If she's hungry, that's such a great sign. I think we can rule out brain tumor, and quite a few other things now...


....such a HUGE difference from just 2 nights ago. We don't know if it is the calcium + light, the antibiotics, the steroids, or whatever, that is helping her recover.
All the wise folks at TSB will have to put their heads together and figure out what it was. If it was MBD, then the treatment will have to last a while longer...... Believe me, we have all been talking and consulting about your baby. One of us has a vet for a husband, which really helps too....

The important thing is that she is better. Whatever you're doing is working so just keep doing it. :wott :grouphug

[thundersquirrel]

glad to hear that she is doing better!

if i were you, i would offer her warm pedialyte in between ensure feedings. just see if she wants some. steroids will make her thirsty.

other than that, just keep doing what you're doing. it sounds like it works. ;)

[LynninIN]

:multi I'm so happy that Leeloo is better today. You are an awesome squirrel mom. :bowdown

[LittleBabySquirrel]

:crazy yaaaay!:crazy

I know what you mean about fretting at work..

You can't have a neighbor pop in once or twice and call and re-assure you?

just an idea! :)

Glad Leeloo is seeming better! :Love_Icon

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

:jump I am thrilled she is doing better. I was worried all night at work!!
I gave her some more Ensure when I got home from work, and she slept a few hours, and we just gave her her evening med doses & more ensure - she's drinking a lot of it Squirrels are wonderful in that they will want to eat what their body is lacking in.
I hope that she continues to improve for you more today. What a way to start the day. :wahoo

[Abacat]

:Welcome pelohojo! How is Leeloo doing this morning? Feeling better I hope. I read your thread and was just curious if you were still thinking of using Carefresh as bedding? Thought you might like to know:
(I took this from a mouse site I've been looking at...) http://www.thefunmouse.com/info/hair-loss.cfm

There are several ways your mouse can get parasites. One way is critter bedding. It is not unheard of for bedding to have parasites. The leading parasite carrying beddings are Timothy hay and CareFresh. However, almost all beddings can carry parasites. :eek:
I'd use layers of newspaper, black and white print only ( it's soy based ink I believe,anyone else know for certain?), and fleece for bedding.
Anyway you could post a pic of Leeloo and Chipper (is that her brother?) I'd love to see them. :) Anyway just wanted to say :wave123 and welcome.

[jules]

That is excellent news, Im so glad to hear that Leeloo is feeling better!

Jules. :Love_Icon

[island rehabber]

I am SO happy to read this thread this morning and see that Leeloo is improving! :thumbsup

[thundersquirrel]

that is ABSOLUTELY true about parasites in bedding. my old rat sweet pea received a bad round of rat lice from the bedding she had. ICK!

how is leeloo doing today?

[Buddy'sMom]

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Hi Everybody!!

Wow, I think I am going to bed early tonight...the worry & stress & lack of sleep over the past week has certainly taken a toll. And the reason I can go to bed early and not have such an overload of stress? Leeloo is doing better again today!:crazy

This morning we were a little concerned, she seemed less alert and willing to drink the Ensure than last night. But we hoped it was because it was so early and she was still sleeping (we have to give her her meds & Ensure before we go to work).

BUT, this afternoon, she showed quite a bit of strength fighting against being given the meds! We are now on day 5 of the antibiotics, 5 more days to go. And day 5 of the steroid, now supposed to switch to every other day for 2 weeks. And the last day of the anti-gas. So we imagine it is going to become VERY difficult to give her the meds as she continues to improve, but hooray!!

She didn't drink as much Ensure, it seems like she is wanting to chew instead of lick. But she is not ready for that yet physically. I did give her some Pedialyte this afternoon too. AND, big news besides the display of recovering strength, when I put her back in her recovery cage, I put her right-side-up, and for the first time she was able to hold herself there for a little bit, instead of limp noodle on her side!!! She couldn't stay in the semi-normal posture for very long, but like I said before, these baby step improvements...I'll take them, and gratefully!!

I went to JoAnn's fabrics and got 4 yards of snuggly fleece fabric (they are having a sale), cut it up into squirrel size blankets, and am washing them now. Leeloo's been using our cut up fleece blanket, now we'll have enough for both of them, with wash cycling.

Yikes, parasites! Well, at PetsMart they only had small packages of the Carefresh, and the Second Hand News pellets seemed too hard and that they'd be uncomfortable and they might think they are the texture of food. So I went with the Kaytee paper-based bedding. Leeloo & Chipper (yes they are sister & brother *smile*) have a large enclosure where we have shredded Aspen now, and will replace with the paper based. Then they also have a little sleeping basket mounted on the side where they will now have only their snuggly fleece instead of the towels/fleece combo.

THANKS everyone for cheering with me! (awww, rippie-n-lilgirlsmom!) I don't want to jinx anything, but we are working toward getting this thread moved off the life-threatening emergency part of the board! I hope so, 4skwerlz, but I'm a little nervous about something the vets said, that if it is a tumor, etc., the steroid is an anti-inflammatory and can reduce the swelling in the brain and sometimes even the tumor. So if that is what it was, I'm worried that as soon as we stop the prednisone it may swell again, but prednisone is no medication to take lightly, as far as keeping her on it long-term. The dehydration thing is easier to check now that she is getting some muscle strength back. (I'm used to checking for that, with my beloved 18-1/2 year old CRF kitty, George) Hopefully Leeloo drinking the Pedialyte will keep her hydration up for her.

Littlebabysquirrel, I am too paranoid to tell many people about our little babies...we don't know what we'd do if anyone tried to take them away!! I was so scared I used an alias & paid in cash at the emergency vet. So no, our neighbors only know we have cats...

We have pictures I'll have to dig them up & scan them & share...

Again, a heart-felt "Thank You" to everyone!

Tune in tomorrow for continued good news...yes, yes, yes!
:)
Colleen, Leeloo & family
:thankyou

[fotheloveofsquirrels]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! thats great news. I 'm so excited for you!:jump

[4skwerlz]

So happy to hear little LeeLoo is better!!

Baby food is a good idea. Must keep her strength up. And make sure she has access to water.

Have you been able to get any extra calcium into her?

Also, since sunlight has the most UVB rays, if you could sit with her outside tomorrow she will get a nice dose of Vit D.

Prayers and hugs for you and LeeLoo!:grouphug

[Mars]

:wahoo :jump :Love_Icon :grouphug :Love_Icon :jump :wahoo

[squiggs]

:wahoo Whooo Hooo!!!:grouphug
:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug
:crazy :thumbsup

[LynninIN]

:wott Great news!!!!!

Baby food is a good idea, baby rice cereal mixed with the ensure would help too.

[pelohojo]

Awww, you guys make me smile!

4skwerlz, it's supposed to get up to 60 again tomorrow here, but it feels cooler. Especially by the time I get home from work. I'm worried to have her exposed to the cold...I did mash up a couple tums & dissolve them in her Ensure (which is the extra calcium + vit D version) last night, hopefully that added for her. Since she can't preen her fur to get the vit. D herself, I'm hoping the FSL is doing good anyway?

So do I pick a veggie Gerber baby food & feed her with a syringe? She's starting to bite down on the syringes this afternoon (smile), I'm a bit concerned about her chewing off the end & swallowing or hurting herself, as she gets stronger. Can't picture using a spoon though! And she can't use her limbs/hands yet...but she did make a heart-warming attempt at preening her face tonight! Or do you suggest I put it in a saucer and point her face to it so she can lick it up?

Sorry for always posting so long, she's just been my major focus since this happened!
:)

[Pam]

So glad to hear that Leeloo is doing better!! :wahoo

I remember how hard it was giving Roxy meds when she was sick last spring. Each day was more and more difficult. It took me to hold her down and husband to give the meds. Talk about some fussing!! One thing Roxy liked when she was sick was orange juice. I bought the one with calcium in it.

Try to get some rest. :grouphug

[Buddy'sMom]

:thumbsup So glad she is doing better!! :thumbsup

Perhaps if you put a dab of baby food on a spoon she would lick it off? :dono

If you think she could chew something very soft, she might like a bit of very ripe avocado.

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[fotheloveofsquirrels]

I know my babies, when they were sick liked the baby sweet pototoes.

[pelohojo]

Thanks for the baby food, orange juice (!) and avocado suggestions! I'm so used to avocado being poisonous for my bird, I didn't realize they are good for squirrels!!

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I'm glad to read Leeloo is doing better. Praying for ongoing improvement.

[island rehabber]

Thanks for the baby food, orange juice (!) and avocado suggestions! I'm so used to avocado being poisonous for my bird, I didn't realize they are good for squirrels!!

So glad Leeloo is coming around -- good job, pelohojo!! They say the avocado skins are not good for squirrels, but mine never touch the skin anyway. They will scoop the good stuff right off the skin with their bottom teeth, so they seem to already know what's good for them and what isn't. :D

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

When my squirrel came home sick with a tooth problem, I gave her the Esbilac with some heavy whipping cream...and grated pecan over the top to get her to lick it out of a bowl. She still loves to drink it like this, if he begins to get tired if the ensure I would try the Esbilac, you can get small already prepared cans at pet stores.
Gald to hear she is still improving.

[4skwerlz]

How is LeeLoo doing this morning? :grouphug

[wdarmac]

:wave123 :grouphug So happy to hear Leeloo is doing so much better. Thoughts and prayers are with you all.:grouphug

[pelohojo]

Thanks everyone, for keeping Leeloo in your thoughts!

Well, our little Leeloo doesn't seem to know to lick food. Even when I put some on her mouth, wiggle her lips for her, etc. So, using a syringe still - but she has started eating a little baby food. She wasn't thrilled about the sweet potatoes, but the apple/blueberries she likes. She even nibbled a little at a blueberry I peeled for her. She's also still drinking the Pedialyte.

She's hanging in there, yesterday wasn't as good a day as the day before, but today is a little better...she's getting a lot of rest, and as much nutrients & Pedialyte as we can get in her. It's going to be lots of baby steps for her recovery, but hopefully full recovery is at the end of our path together!

:)

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

Thanks everyone, for keeping Leeloo in your thoughts!

Well, our little Leeloo doesn't seem to know to lick food. Even when I put some on her mouth, wiggle her lips for her, etc. So, using a syringe still - but she has started eating a little baby food. She wasn't thrilled about the sweet potatoes, but the apple/blueberries she likes. She even nibbled a little at a blueberry I peeled for her. She's also still drinking the Pedialyte.

She's hanging in there, yesterday wasn't as good a day as the day before, but today is a little better...she's getting a lot of rest, and as much nutrients & Pedialyte as we can get in her. It's going to be lots of baby steps for her recovery, but hopefully full recovery is at the end of our path together!

:)
:thumbsup :thumbsup Thats so, excellent!! Im thrilled for you!!:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[Pam]

:wave123 Good to hear from you. I've been thinking about you and Leeloo.
Hang in there...baby steps are OK!! :thumbsup

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[My Little Trouble]

My heart is there with you and Leeloo, http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/ozonetraveler/heart.gif I'm so glad that she is rallying!

[LynninIN]

How is Leeloo doing today?

[Luv4scratty]

Hey congrats i read you're story. Im so glad she's getting better. How is she doing today keep us updated<3333333

[pelohojo]

Hi Squirrel friends! ...It'll be 2 weeks tomorrow since Leeloo's "episode", but she is definitely making improvements.. She started trying to clean her face with her arms in her cute squirrel way last night, and is feeling stronger in her movements and eating. :)

In reading about Luv's Sammy, it seems like Leeloo had a very similar experience. So I do worry that it could be diabetes mixed in with mbd for her too. And because of what the vets said & the eye movements she exhibited, still worry it may also have been a stroke in there as well.

She will not eat the critical care...she will just let me feed it to her (after a struggle) and then let it drain out of her mouth. She will not swallow. Same with the Ensure or Esbilac which she no longer will drink on her own. She won't lick up food either, my thought is she doesn't know how to. So what she is only eating right now is, syringe-fed baby food (peas & carrots), she will now bite down & chew avocado and peeled blueberries too. Turns her head away from the slivers of rodent block pieces I have offered, I think she maybe doesn't have the strength to chew anything hard yet. No luck on her eating mushrooms, bell pepper, parsley, grapes either. I can REALLY feel her bones, I am very worried that she is not eating enough! I get up at 4:30 in the morning to spend the time it takes to try and get her to eat & drink before going to work. Then as soon as we get home, we get some food & pedialyte & water in her again. And then again before we go to bed. But she was an *ahem* healthy eater (smile) before all this, and it just doesn't seem like she is getting all she needs. But she is getting stronger, so maybe it will just take longer than I'd think for her to get to the point of eating better.

Does anyone know the typical recovery process for mbd? When this happened, she was a totally limp noodle, not moving at all. She is getting back some strength and coordination now, but still can't sit normally or even lay normally for long. Boy do I wish she could see Sammy & be inspired by his good eating! She has not been in her regular enclosure all this time, but in a small transport/recovery cage. She sleeps all the time.

Tonight is the last dose of antibiotics, and the prednisone is down to every other day for another week or so. I bought some highly absorbable human calcium pills with Vitamin D and have been crushing them & giving her some using a wet swab. I'm nervous to stop with the calcium. She has her FS light (which she tries to go under the covers away from, I have to keep uncovering her lower half so she gets at least some!)

Thanks, you guys, for checking in on my little Leeloo!

[4skwerlz]

I'm sorry LeeLoo is still so sick. :grouphug Her symptoms, especially her lack of improvement, suggest that whatever disease or problem it was, it was fairly severe or advanced.

As far as the progress of recovery for MBD: just like the disease, it varies. However, once the squirrel receives calcium, they usually begin to improve within several days. Sometimes there is permanent damage that never goes away. Poor LeeLoo obviously had some kind of crisis, whether it was MBD, diabetes, stroke, or something else, and apparently her recovery is going to be longer term.

So your biggest problem right now is getting her to eat. I wouldn't worry about WHAT she eats, just find something she will eat--even nuts. You can sprinkle the calcium and vitamins on it if you have to.

Hugs and prayers for all of you.:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Thank you, 4skwerlz...yes, after 9 years of her being a totally vibrant, healthy squirrel, this is awful. And whatever it was, it was terribly sudden & severe - I thought we were going to lose her that very first night. And the night after that. And the day after that...etc....you and all those here who helped get us through really were lifesavers for my little Leeloo!! Neither of the vets I took her to have called to check on her (which is usual standard procedure), and I know they haven't because they were so sure she wouldn't make it. You guys saved her life!! I am so grateful. And where there is life and improvement, there is hope. I still am full of hope for her full recovery. I even put her in her old sleeping nest basket with Chipper every so often, with me standing there, as I'm worried about her getting depressed and/or lonely on top of it all. (and Chipper too) And that is my thought too, 4skwerlz, right now, my main focus is to get her to eat anything I can, to build her strength. I'm trying lots of things, but whatever she is eating is what I'm focusing on.

p.s. - I read on another post that the collard greens have to be cooked?

[pelohojo]

oh yeah, another thought I had, she never has seemed to be in any discomfort or pain, throughout this whole time. Just completely "out of it" when she was a noodle, to frustrated at not being able to do what she normally can, now. Does mbd always hurt, or can some squirrels have a higher pain tolerance than most others, like some people can?

[4skwerlz]

oh yeah, another thought I had, she never has seemed to be in any discomfort or pain, throughout this whole time. Just completely "out of it" when she was a noodle, to frustrated at not being able to do what she normally can, now. Does mbd always hurt, or can some squirrels have a higher pain tolerance than most others, like some people can?

I can only say based on the cases I've seen here on TSB that it seems a little different for each squirrel. Some seem very sore and achy; others not at all. Whenever a pet squirrel is suddenly ill, the presumptive diagnosis is MBD because it is sadly so common. However, now that we've learned a bit more about LeeLoo, and after a week or so has passed, it seems a bit less like MBD. It does seem atypical for LeeLoo to be stricken with such a severe case of MBD without any prior symptoms whatsoever. The symptoms can be subtle and fleeting, however: sleeping a lot, reluctance to climb, loss of appetite, seeming "achy" and stiff, or "depressed."

[pelohojo]

Hi 4skwerlz - the only symptoms I noticed she had (which only in hindsight did I recognize as "symptoms", you're right, they were subtle) was she seemed to be drinking more than was her usual, and seemed to have lost a little weight. However, over the course of her & Chipper's years, they tend to fluctuate with the seasons (eating, sleeping, moulting, etc.), so I didn't really think anything of it until after her episode. She has spent her entire life with Chipper, this has been their first separation..it's me projecting she may get depressed & lonely without him. I hope not, but just in case I am letting them know they are near each other. Thanks for brainstorming, I will continue to try and get her to eat well, drink, and finish off her meds. When she gets healthy enough, I'm thinking I should have her blood checked to maybe help you guys in the know perhaps figure out or rule out what it could have been? I don't want to make missteps & cause her a relapse at any phase of this...and I do want to keep her brother from enduring the same thing if it's in my power...

Thank you Gamma's Baby for your well wishes and thinking of suggestions...

[4skwerlz]

We are all hoping and praying LeeLoo gets better soon.
You are certainly doing everything a loving squirrel mom could possibly do to help her.:Love_Icon
:grouphug :grouphug :grouphug

[pelohojo]

Thank you for your good wishes for Leeloo, 4skwerlz!

Gamma's Baby, thank you for the advice! Yikes, if she isn't grooming to get the vitamin D, or eating mushrooms, etc., how best to get her the vit. D she needs to absorb the calcium? The pills also have vit. k, so I better not give her any more it sound like.

Has anyone ever successfully taught an adult squirrel how to eat food by licking it? I have put food under her nose, at her mouth, literally dipped her lips in it, put avocado (which she is eating) on top, etc. to try & get her to lick her lips & learn that way. No luck! So I am still having to "force feed" her using a syringe, which she really doesn't appreciate.

We put a rodent block in front of her again this evening, and she seemed to get excited about it and want to eat it, but couldn't gnaw, even on a sliver piece. Still too hard for her. She is starting to be able to hold herself up a little, but still can't really use her back legs except to push herself under the blanket, and although she has started to try and groom her face with her arms like she used to, and will now shove with her front paws when I am trying to feed her (both good signs!) - she is still not able to hold food yet. I think once she has gotten enough strength and coordination back to hold her food, we will have reached a major milestone in her recovery.

[Buddy'sMom]

I'm glad to see that there has been some progress with Leeloo -- it must be so hard for you to see her like this! You are being a great Mommy for her! :Love_Icon :bowdown

Given the weakness in the rest of her body, I wonder if perhaps her mouth and tongue are also weak and that's why she doesn'y seem to be able to lick or nibble, even soft stuff? :thinking Perhaps she will be able to as she regains her strength.

Esbilac would provide the calcium and Vit. D she needs. You said in an earlier post that she rejected the Esbilac alone. Have you tried mixing a little in whatever you are feeding her with the syringe? That would give her at least a little bit.

Since she seemed interested in the rodent block, perhaps if you tried softening it with a little Esbilac -- maybe she would like it a little mushy.

Also, you could try a little rodent block powder in with what you have in the syringe. (grate it or put it in a food processer -- then thru a sieve (maybe twice) so you have ONLY fine powder --- because any little bits will clog the syringe!)

But, I agree with everyone else -- whatever you can get her to eat is good. Just like when we have been sick and lose our appetite, anything that sparks that to come back is a good thing. :thumbsup

I hope Leeloo gets better soon!! :) :thumbsup

:grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug

[4skwerlz]

... if she isn't grooming to get the vitamin D, or eating mushrooms, etc., how best to get her the vit. D she needs to absorb the calcium? The pills also have vit. k, so I better not give her any more it sound like.

She does need Vit D. Some people use human supplements with no problem. It may be a tad safer to buy a rat vitamin/mineral supplement, as the "Rat RDA" is well known and the elements will be in the proper proportions to one another. Otherwise, you should keep track of the dosage:

Normal Weekly Requirement for a 16-oz Squirrel (.45 kg)
Calcium: 2,500 mg per week
Vit D: .0125 mg per week
Vit K: .5 mg per week

You could safely double the amount of calcium for 1 week in case of MBD. I would not increase the Vit D using a supplement, because of the danger of toxicity. Extra Vit D is better coming naturally through foods. I don't know whether Vit K could be toxic at higher levels.