MBD feeding question

[susiefan]

My son blessed me with a baby squirrel. He came riding home on his motorcycle one day with a little baby in his pocket. The baby was dehydrated. We think he was about 4 weeks old at the time. He had his eyes shut but opened them about a week later. He did really well on Esbilac formula after we rehydrated him. He was growing and playing. About three weeks ago we noticed that he didn't want to eat. a few days after that we noticed that he was dragging his FRONT paws. We finally got down to force feeding him pedilyte and got him to a vet in our area who will treat wildlife. She took one look at him and told us that we were feeding him the WRONG thing. Said he had a D3 deficency. I am assuming that she meant MBD but she never called it that. I was concerned about MBD but had read so many times that they couldn't get it while on the Esbilac. Anyway, the vet told us to start feeding him EXACT which is a hand feeding formula for baby birds. I had never heard of that but she said that she has raised many of these little guys. He seems to love the EXACT but won't even try to chew on anything else right now. That is my first concern. Second concern is how much of this stuff should I be feeding him? She said just feed him all that he will take but I thought squirrels would overeat if you let them. I am feeding him every 4 or 5 hours right now and giving him 9ML per feeding. He seems to be growing but only slightly. May also be my wishful thinking. My third concern is that he doesn't seem to be improving as far as his weakness is concerned. He will scoot along on his chest and drag his front paws under him. He will use the paws though. He holds on to the syringe the whole time while eating.
He is still not active and will sleep a good part of the day. I am putting him out on our screened in porch in his cage to get sun. I have also ordered a full sprecturm light which should arrive tomorrow by UPS. How long does it take before you start seeing improvement from MBD? Maybe I am looking for improvement too soon? He has been on the EXACT for a week now.:dono

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

I've never used Exact. Perhaps some of the other folks here on TSB can speak on behalf of it. However, Esbilac is the standard milk replacer for baby squirrels unless there's an allergy or complication. There are things you can do to boost your baby's calcium intake, such as calcium supplements. Here's a link to those recommendations:

http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3580

I'd suggest that put the little one back on Esbilac, and also begin to implement the suggestions in the above link to boost the calcium intake. In addition, there are some foods that block calcium absorption as well, such as excess sunflower seed, and some nuts. What else are you feeding the little one? That could be contributing to the problem.

You can add a supplement to formula, such as Multimilk (preferred) or heavy whipping cream. The supplement will boost the fat calories. The recipe is 1 part supplement, 2 parts Esbilac, 3 parts water. The increased caloric intake will fatten him up, and be closer to what he'd get from Mom.

A gram scale will truly assist in judging how much to feed. Weigh an empty syrenge, then weigh a full syrenge and determine how many grams the formula weighs. You want to feed baby 5% of it's body weight. Overfeeding can cause diarrhea, however, Mom doesn't cut them off if they want a little more, if you know what I mean. So use good judgement, and monitor how they do.

Copy and paste is very handy lately . . .

[susiefan]

Thank you for your help. I am really glad to have found this place too.

First of all, the Vet did not tell me that Esbilac is not good to use. She said you use it until they get their teeth in and then you switch to the EXACT hand feeding formula. After that they get switched to primate chow and eventually rodent chow.

The squirrel is about 10 weeks old now. He was 8 weeks old when he started going down (refusing to eat) and we took him to the vet about a week after that. He has been on the EXACT for 1 week. I have also been giving him a teaspoon of full fat yogurt about once a day. Today I went to the pet store and bought some more Esbilac (I threw out the can when the vet told me to change to EXACT). I have decided to use the Esbilac as the fluid I add to the EXACT. I hesitate to give up the EXACT because it has a bit higher concentration of D3 than the Esbilac does. I also bought a can of Rep-Cal which is Calcium with Vit. D3. I am a bit scared to try this though. What if I end up giving him too much Calcium and then have the opposite problem!

He is in a small plastic cage that is sold for small animals right now. I have it sitting half way on a heating pad that is set to Medium.

Poor thing. I feel like I am experimenting on him. Don't get me wrong, he is 100 percent better than he was 1 week ago. I guess I just expected faster improvement. He still refuses to eat anything that doesn't come out of a syringe. He does seem to enjoy his food though. I just want him to be back running around like a little wild man again and attacking his toys.

[thundersquirrel]

oh, poor baby! i totally understand your concern- it's no fun when a little squirrel starts getting ill.

here's the thing- we all use esbilac (some with multimilk/heavy whipping cream, some without) and we have no problem at all with our babies. and i can assure you, there are TONS of experienced people on this board (i have almost four years' experience- many of us, though, have had over fifteen or twenty years experience).

the esbilac should not have started a problem. even though he may need the extra nutrients NOW, it's very strange that the problem started in the first place.

so what had he been eating (besides esbilac) before the problem began? also, what ratio of water to powder did you use?

about the overfeeding- they will overfeed themselves, but a ten week old might be smart enough not to. as said before- weigh him in grams, multiply that by .05, and that's how many ccs he should get at each feeding.

i would say only feed him twice a day, but he's refusing everything else?

sorry if this is a lot, but there's a lot of info we need. ;)

[susiefan]

Before he went down he was eating mostly the Esbilac. I mixed it in a 2:1 ratio. 1 part formula to 2 parts water. We did give him maybe one nut a day. He didn't eat them. Just chewed them up and let the pieces drop. I gave him an occasional grape that was peeled. Not everyday though. He would really eat the grape. Didn't try much else. I was just beginning to start think of giving him dog food until the primate chow came in. He never got to eating it though because he got sick. We feed him every 4 to 5 hours during the day but will go longer at night. Feed him right before we go to bed and then my son feeds him again before he leaves for work at 5 a.m. So, I would guess that he gets fed 5 to 6 times a day.

I weighed him tonight on my weight watchers scale which will do grams. He weighs 180 grams. 5% of that would be 9 grams (also 9ML according to the markings on the syringe) which is what I have been feeding him. I weighed the empty syringe and then weighed it again when it was filled as suggested.

He has been refusing to eat anything else. Doesn't want to chew on anything so far. I even tried to give him a peeled grape yesterday and he refused that.

I have to say that he is acting a bit better later today. More lively and harder to hold on to. Maybe he is turning a corner. I sure hope so.

So, what about the Rep-cal. Should I try it or not?:confused:

[4skwerlz]

Susie, I just don't understand how your baby got MBD while on formula!! The formula is supposed to be nutritionally complete.

Ideas: How long was he on the Pedialyte? It is high in potassium and very high in sodium, so perhaps that was a factor. I would take him OFF the Pedialyte for now. Also, check the expiration date on your formula. I'd go buy a new can of premixed Esbilac just to be sure, and don't freeze it. I'm just trying to figure out anything that could have caused this!

Please be very careful with Vitamin D supplementation--it is easy to overdose on it. Vit D helps the body metabolize calcium. The best source of Vit D is natural sunlight, which stimulates the body to manufacture the vitamin. Sunlight is the BEST source of Vit D, as the body will only make the amount needed. Here's some info on treating MBD:


MBD Treatment
(from Rehabilitation of Eastern Gray Squirrels: 2005 Revision, Written by Carol Hardee, Director, Wildlife Rehabilitation Center of Central Florida)

We have had very good success in treating MBD by immediately placing the patient on a regime which provides a high calcium intake. If the squirrel is old enough to eat solids, we sprinkle calcium carbonate powder liberally on all solid foods offered, avoiding offering foods high in phosphorous. We also provide a minimum of 30 minutes of sunlight [or full-spectrum light] daily. These patients should be kept in an indoor-sized cage rather than an outdoor cage to minimize exercise and possible stress fractures. Be sure to check the teeth for possible overgrowth also as this often occurs as well. Over the years, we have saved dozens of squirrels that were admitted with seizures, dragging their hind legs and unable to walk. This disease is totally preventable, curable in all but the final stages, and the treatments are easily administered.

The diet below is for a squirrel eating solid foods. However, you could try to get him to lick a little molasses or chew on an orange slice. Once he starts on solids, you can use the list to make sure you're giving him high-calcium foods. Most importantly, take his cage outside as much as you can for sunlight. He should be in the shade; not direct sun so he doesn't overheat. Without the sunlight, he won't be able to metabolize the calcium you give him.

High-Calcium Diet for Squirrels with MBD

Emergency Calcium Sources
molasses
calcium carbonate or calcium glubonate
slice of orange or other citrus to aid calcium absorption
natural sunlight or a full-spectrum light (at least 1 hour/day)

Good Calcium Sources (high-calcium/low-phosphorus)
collard greens
mustard spinach
papaya
turnip greens
tofu, w/calcium sulfate
parsley, fresh
beet greens
dandelion greens
Chinese cabbage
looseleaf lettuce
figs (fresh)
kale
hard boiled egg with shell

[susiefan]

You know, I was mixing his formula with the pedialyte liquid for a while. I guess I should have known better. Maybe that is why he developed the disease. The Esbilac was a brand new can. We had just opened the second new can of powder when he got sick. I was thinking at first that maybe the new can tasted different for some reason and that is why he was refusing to eat. I started mixing the formula with the Pedialyte again thinking the sweet taste would make him eat.

I will keep trying solid foods and see if I can get him to eat. I bought some collard greens yesterday and he just smelled them and walked away. I have tried Kale. I will have to get out the molasses and try putting a little on the green vegetables. See if that attracts him. I think I might have an orange in the fridge. I will get that out and try it when he is hungry to see if he will eat it.

How do you check for teeth over growth? I have looked at his teeth but don't know how to tell if they are too long. They don't look too long to me but what do I know!

I have him out in the sunlight right now. He is on the screened porch. I put him where the sun shines on the cage but it is not too hot because it is morning and it is filtered by the screen. I leave him out there for a couple of hours per day (but didn't start until he got sick.) and I check on him a few times while he is out there. I don't think he much likes it. Not because of the sun but because he is not used to the sounds. We have a goose and ducks in the back yard and the goose makes quite a racket.

I think I am going to hold off on the calcium supplement (with the D3). I will just keep giving him the formula and doing the sunlight (or the full sprecturm light which is supposed to come in today) and keep trying to get him to eat solid foods. I will let you all know if he improves over the next few weeks. I did see him standing up on his two front legs last night in his cage. It gave me hope but this morning his is not trying to stand on them.

Thank you for all your suggestions.

[pamela lee]

:Welcome , Some screening blocks UV rays and that's what you're wanting to get to the squirrel. So maybe if you can place his cage outside that may help. It will also help him to get used to the outside sounds and smells.

[susiefan]

Ok, I will try moving it outside and see if I can find some shade. My husband is an insurance agent and is against trees! We have a few fruit trees in the back yard. I will see if I can get him close to those.

[thundersquirrel]

hey, if you have trouble finding trees, then you could just cover half of his cage with some kind of thick fabric, like a dark towel or blanket. that would give him some shade, but also access to that wonderful sunlight that he needs. ;)

[4skwerlz]

You know, I was mixing his formula with the pedialyte liquid for a while. I guess I should have known better. Maybe that is why he developed the disease. The Esbilac was a brand new can. We had just opened the second new can of powder when he got sick. I was thinking at first that maybe the new can tasted different for some reason and that is why he was refusing to eat. I started mixing the formula with the Pedialyte again thinking the sweet taste would make him eat.
......I think I am going to hold off on the calcium supplement (with the D3). I will just keep giving him the formula and doing the sunlight (or the full sprecturm light which is supposed to come in today) and keep trying to get him to eat solid foods. I will let you all know if he improves over the next few weeks. I did see him standing up on his two front legs last night in his cage. It gave me hope but this morning his is not trying to stand on them.

Thank you for all your suggestions.

Aha! I suspect the Pedialyte was the culprit. He could even have had sodium or potassium poisoning from the Pedialyte. The excess sodium leads to dehydration. You could offer water in a shallow dish in case he is a bit dehydrated. No salty foods either just in case. You can supplement the calcium as long as it is just calcium (no D3). You can buy plain calcium carbonate tablets or capsules in the drugstore. Walmart has them. They cost less than 5 dollars. Sprinkle a bit on his food per the instructions in my former post.

So glad he improved, even for a bit! That gives hope!

[susiefan]

I really really think my baby is improving. He was up on his front paws again tonight and bouncing quickly like he used too!:jump I am so excited.

Today I put a small bowl in his cage with him and put in some small primate chow pieces and a small piece of orange and some kale. I don't think he ate any of it. He did get in the bowl though because a couple of pieces of the primate chow were scattered around the floor of the cage. Maybe he will get the hang of it if he gets hungry enough. I don't plan on letting him get hungry until I am sure that he is mended.

My reptile light came in late today. I put it on him for about 30 minutes before I went out to dinner. I didn't want to leave it on while I wasn't here. I will put it on him again tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with my concerns. I will let you know how he is doing from time to time. Oh, by the way, his name is Whiskers.:D

[susiefan]

Got Whiskers up this morning and he is definately on the mend. He was up on both front paws again. Now if I can just get him interested in eating something besides formula from a syringe. He does knaw on the syringe while feeding. I keep hoping that is a good sign that he will be knawing on other things soon.

I tried the molasses yesterday (on his food items). He didn't seem to be interested at all. Would it be OK to try a bit of honey? Or is that a no no? What about peanut butter? I think I saw that mentioned.

[LynninIN]

You are doing a great job with Whisker's! :thumbsup

Try soaking the primate chow in formula. A little peanut butter is fine, I'd stay away from the honey.

At ten weeks Whisker's teeth shouldn't be overgrown but misalignment can occur and make it difficult to chew. Can you get a picture of his teeth?

[VampireFerrets]

Please toss the RepCal in the garbage. I'm glad you haven't started using it yet. RepCal is meant for reptiles and even the manufacturer has no clue if it is safe to use on other animals or a recommended dosage. For some reason, vets started recommending it for domestic skunks and it has lead to nothing but trouble and many many cases of MBD.
It sounds like your little guy is on the mend :). At that age, our little ones didn't have much interest in food either, only making a huge mess but not actually eating it. Then one day they started eating and haven't turned back. We also found they liked sprouts before actual veggies.
Good luck with your little one.

[susiefan]

I can try to get a picture of his teeth when someone comes home to hold him for me. I don't think the teeth are missaligned because he was chewing away on stuff before he went down.

I went in to take him out for his 10 a.m. feeding and he was digging stuff out of his food bowl. Not eating it. Just pushing it out. I was excited at first because the orange slice was gone but I found it later under some bedding.

He is so bouncy this morning that I am really afraid he is going to hurt himself. I have him in the large rubbermaid container he has been in since he has been sick. My son insisted that I take him out of the plastic cage because it is so much smaller than the rubermaid container. Oh well, $27 for a couple of days. My daughter has always wanted a mouse! Maybe she will have a home for it now. Anyway, he is doing somersaults in there. I finally took the food out of the bowl and threw it on the bottom of the cage. I am afraid he is going to get hurt on the bowl. He feels good but those front leg bones have got to still be fragile.

I will try soaking the primate chow in formula but he doesn't even seem interested in his formula when it is in the bowl. I tilt the bowl up so he can smell it and he just walks away. I don't know if he likes peanut butter. I have never tried it. I was just thinking it might be something to try.

QUESTIONS::dono
How long should I keep him out of the large cage? Also, should I cut out one feeding in hopes that he will begin to eat on his own?

[susiefan]

Also, I will throw out the Rep-cal! Glad I never tried it.:Squirrel The picture beside my name is Whiskers before he got sick. He is larger now. I hope he will be climbing on those baskets again soon.

Hey, to add a picture does it have to be uploaded to a site to host it? It is not stored on the message board? Sorry to be so ignorant but when I say I want to insert a picture it just comes up with a place to enter a URL.

[susiefan]

15431

This is Whiskers before he got sick. I will have to get a new picture of him since he is recovering.

[4skwerlz]

If he just wants formula for now, that's fine. He will transition to solid foods when he's ready. Keep offering the rodent block.

I'm not even sure it was MBD at this point. With all that Pedialyte he was drinking, it could have been any kind of salt or mineral overdose or inbalance. I'm so glad he is so much better so soon.

Just to be safe, better keep him as quiet as possible for a few more days.

Also, either get the calcium carbonate tablets at the drugstore, or get some molasses (high in calcium). Plus the FSL, which he will need always.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Give him a kiss on that cute face from me.

[anneke]

He's just darling!!!

Glad to hear he is feeling better.