Help Needed: Baby Squirrel with Wheezing and Squeaking Sounds – Amoxi-Clav Dosage?

[CharlieR]

We have a 3.5 - 4-week-old baby squirrel that weighs 1.38 oz. He has been eating 1 to 2 mL of Esbilac powder every 2 to 3 hours for the past 3 days from a 1ML syringe. (We received his miracle nipple today.) Yesterday, we noticed when he moved around he would start to sneeze. Then later yesterday he developed a wheezing sound and a squeaking sound. We have 400mg/57mg 5mL Amoxi-Clav liquid. Would it be safe to give him, and if so, what would be the correct dosage and how often should it be given?

[lachy22]

BUMP! BUMP! BUMPPPP!! DOSING HELP NEEDED!!!

(I apologize Charlie, I am not qualified enough to make a dosing. I am boosting this post for more attention. Another rehabber will send you a dosing in a private message.)

[CharlieR]

Thank you! Hopefully, someone can help. I think the maximum daily dose is around 0.002 mL, but I want to be sure before administering anything and make sure it is safe. He is still eating and drinking, his output is good, and his stool looks normal. The only concern is his breathing. I tried uploading a short video, but it won't let me.

[lachy22]

There are definitely people here who know the dosing for it, they should reply shortly as some members are active in the later hours at night. If the video upload doesn’t work, you can post the video as an Unlisted link on YouTube and then paste the link here.

[CharlieR]

I didn't think of that. Thank you! Here are two videos.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0wkLMsWAbyU?si=3hWTdtG1AMlIEW2J

https://youtube.com/shorts/rvyp7vbv7ys?si=plSXlowDNBwch95y

[lachy22]

BUMP AGAIN!! AMOXI CLAV DOSING HELP NEEDED FOR BABY PLEASEE!!!!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

BUMP AGAIN!! AMOXI CLAV DOSING HELP NEEDED FOR BABY PLEASEE!!!!

Thanks Lachy22! Charlie, I am so very sorry that you have not had a response to your post yet! I am at work and have literally 10 more minutes of "finishing up" to do and I will get to your thread! Thanks Lachy22 for your BUMPS!

Questions to answer before I (or someone else) gets back (again, I will be about 10 minutes):
1) How is your Squirrel doing now? Is he back to behaving normally or are there still problems. Is he drinking formula, pooping and peeing; all normally?
2) If you have not mixed the antibiotic, DON'T do it yet!
3) was your Squirrel's weight obtained with a digital scale? 1.38oz would be about 39 Grams. Can you verify the weight preferably in grams?
4) Would you please post a photo of both sides of the medication bottle to show all labeling? Information needed: Per the directions, how much water is to mixed with the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate powder? Does the label state what the total amount of powdered medication (before mixing), in milligrams, is contained in the bottle?
5) I looked at the videos; this form of breathing is very concerning! Is your baby warm and well hydrated?
6) was there an observed (or suspected) aspiration event?

Back with you shortly!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I just subscribed to this thread. I'll get an email when your get back here.
Thanks and once again, CharlieR, I apologize for you having to wait so long for an answer to your post!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Hello and thank you for responding.
1. He is pooping, peeing, and drinking formula normally. He eats anywhere from 1.5mL to 2mL every 2.5/3 hours around the clock.
2. The antibiotic is a pre-mixed prescription that we keep in the fridge.
3. Yes, it is a digital scale. We just weighed him, and he is now 41 grams. So, he has gained weight. :)
4. Attached below.
5. He is warm and hydrated. His urine output is very good. After every feeding, he is stimulated and goes. He has a bowel movement at least 2/3 times a day. It is an orange-tan brown color and moist.
6. I would say it's suspected. He got a little milk on his nose once, and it was wiped off immediately. He wasn't breathing like this when we found him Tuesday night. He started sneezing a little late Wednesday/early Thursday, and Friday morning we noticed he started making sounds when breathing. At first, you only heard the sounds when he was moving around. He had just finished eating when we started hearing them. We put him in his temporary home and waited for him to fall asleep. Then I grabbed the stethoscope, and you couldn't hear any wheezing or squeaking noises.

I am working on uploading videos from 5:00PM EST today. I will post links in a reply once they finish uploading.

[CharlieR]

We just went to get him for a feeding, and it looked like he had a runny nose with a small little white bubble coming out. I'm going to hold off on his feeding. He is having cluster sneezing right now.

The links below are videos of his breathing around 5:00PM EST, today.

https://youtu.be/ts50ZWZZqvM?si=6Znm6VlBghS895jO

https://youtu.be/50dVGKR5nVc?si=riCZSnEJSeMHzVSM

https://youtu.be/PFNPSldyXUo?si=dJX3UlZyxlygK2OG

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hello and thank you for responding.
1. He is pooping, peeing, and drinking formula normally. He eats anywhere from 1.5mL to 2mL every 2.5/3 hours around the clock.
2. The antibiotic is a pre-mixed prescription that we keep in the fridge.
3. Yes, it is a digital scale. We just weighed him, and he is now 41 grams. So, he has gained weight. :)
4. Attached below.
5. He is warm and hydrated. His urine output is very good. After every feeding, he is stimulated and goes. He has a bowel movement at least 2/3 times a day. It is an orange-tan brown color and moist.
6. I would say it's suspected. He got a little milk on his nose once, and it was wiped off immediately. He wasn't breathing like this when we found him Tuesday night. He started sneezing a little late Wednesday/early Thursday, and Friday morning we noticed he started making sounds when breathing. At first, you only heard the sounds when he was moving around. He had just finished eating when we started hearing them. We put him in his temporary home and waited for him to fall asleep. Then I grabbed the stethoscope, and you couldn't hear any wheezing or squeaking noises.

I am working on uploading videos from 5:00PM EST today. I will post links in a reply once they finish uploading.

Thanks! How long ago did you reconstitute the powdered antibiotic? This is usually safe for no more than 10 days! I'm back at work and will probably be unavailable for about 2 hours and will get back then. Others are here also but I will be back with you!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

We got the medicine Tuesday night.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

We just went to get him for a feeding, and it looked like he had a runny nose with a small little white bubble coming out. I'm going to hold off on his feeding. He is having cluster sneezing right now.

The links below are videos of his breathing around 5:00PM EST, today.

https://youtu.be/ts50ZWZZqvM?si=6Znm6VlBghS895jO

https://youtu.be/50dVGKR5nVc?si=riCZSnEJSeMHzVSM

https://youtu.be/PFNPSldyXUo?si=dJX3UlZyxlygK2OG

Thanks again for the videos CharlieR! Is your baby Squirrel still breathing through his mouth? Squirrels are obligate nose breathers (they normally breath through their noses and it is only with difficulty that they are able to breath through their mouths). Mouth breathing by a Squirrel is ALWAYS abnormal! Take great precautions to prevent aspiration (or further aspiration)!

I have sent dosing instructions for the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate to you via a Private Message!

Please keep on with the updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Thanks again for the videos CharlieR! Is your baby Squirrel still breathing through his mouth? Squirrels are obligate nose breathers (they normally breath through their noses and it is only with difficulty that they are able to breath through their mouths). Mouth breathing by a Squirrel is ALWAYS abnormal! Take great precautions to prevent aspiration (or further aspiration)!

I have sent dosing instructions for the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate to you via a Private Message!

Please keep on with the updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel





Yes, he is still breathing through his mouth. I've been trying to keep him on his side while he sleeps and elevate his head slightly.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Yes, he is still breathing through his mouth. I've been trying to keep him on his side while he sleeps and elevate his head slightly.

Hi CharlieR:
What is the name of your little Squirrel?

Do you have a stethoscope where you could listen over your Squirrel's chest and over his head and specifically over his nasal passages to hear what might be coarse breath sounds. If you listen over your own chest with the stethoscope to hear breath sounds; that is the way your Squirrel's breathing should sound only it will be much softer. The mouth breathing can be from something blocking the nasal passages such as mucosal swelling or thickened drying formula or other foreign body in the the nasal passages or from a pneumonia or other lung or breathing passages problem that makes it difficult inhale or normal air exchange to take place. If there is blockage or restriction in the nasal passages, a cool mist vaporizer may help.

I have sent a link to Henry's Baby Squirrel Care Guide to CharlieR through her dosing PM and I have also recommended that she order Fox Valley 20/50 Formula and begin transitioning from Esbilac to this. Charlie informed me that she is using Esbilac Goats Milk Formula.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
What is the name of your little Squirrel?

Do you have a stethoscope where you could listen over your Squirrel's chest and over his head and specifically over his nasal passages to hear what might be coarse breath sounds. If you listen over your own chest with the stethoscope to hear breath sounds; that is the way your Squirrel's breathing should sound only it will be much softer. The mouth breathing can be from something blocking the nasal passages such as mucosal swelling or thickened drying formula or other foreign body in the the nasal passages or from a pneumonia or other lung or breathing passages problem that makes it difficult inhale or normal air exchange to take place. If there is blockage or restriction in the nasal passages, a cool mist vaporizer may help.

I have sent a link to Henry's Baby Squirrel Care Guide to CharlieR through her dosing PM and I have also recommended that she order Fox Valley 20/50 Formula and begin transitioning from Esbilac to this. Charlie informed me that she is using Esbilac Goats Milk Formula.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


I apologize for the delay. His name is Charlie. His little ears have just unfolded and his eyes are still closed. Last night, I listened to his chest and over his head, and I could only hear his little heartbeat and a clicking sound. When I listened around his head and nose area, it sounded like a stuffy nose, and he had clear mucus coming out of both nostrils. However, his right nostril didn’t seem as open as his left. I wiped him down thoroughly with a damp cloth and cleaned his face and around his nostrils very well. He is still making noise when he breathes and is still breathing through his mouth, but the sound doesn’t seem as bad as yesterday.

[CharlieR]

I apologize for the delay. His name is Charlie. His little ears have just unfolded and his eyes are still closed. Last night, I listened to his chest and over his head, and I could only hear his little heartbeat and a clicking sound. When I listened around his head and nose area, it sounded like a stuffy nose, and he had clear mucus coming out of both nostrils. However, his right nostril didn’t seem as open as his left. I wiped him down thoroughly with a damp cloth and cleaned his face and around his nostrils very well. He is still making noise when he breathes and is still breathing through his mouth, but the sound doesn’t seem as bad as yesterday.



I purchased the powder form. Here is a link: https://www.petag.com/products/goats-milk-esbilac-powder. I decided to go with goat’s milk powder because it is gentler on the stomach and I could get it faster. I compared its ingredients to those of Fox Valley, and below is what I found. Since I was able to get the Esbilac powder at our local Tractor Supply I purchased it to start his feedings sooner. I will order the Fox Valley 20/50 today. :)

Goats' Milk Esbilac Powder
Main Ingredients: Goat milk powder/protein, whey protein, vegetable oil (with preservatives), maltodextrins (carbs), dextrose (sugar), casein (protein).
Additives/Thickeners: Guar gum, mono and diglycerides.
Minerals/Vitamins: Calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron, copper, vitamins A, D3, E, B12, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid.
Probiotics/Prebiotics: Bifidobacterium, Lactobacillus (for gut health), fructooligosaccharides (prebiotic fiber).
Preservatives: Tocopherols (vitamin E), ascorbyl palmitate, rosemary extract.

Fox Valley Formula 20/50
Main Ingredients: Corn syrup solids, whey protein, lactose, vegetable oil, casein.
Additives/Thickeners: Mono and diglycerides, natural/artificial flavors.
Minerals/Vitamins: Calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron, copper, vitamins A, D3, E, B12, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid.
Sugars: Corn syrup solids, lactose.

Key Differences:
Goats' Milk Esbilac Powder: Goat milk, probiotics, fewer sugars, more natural preservatives.
Fox Valley Formula 20/50: Corn syrup solids, lactose, simpler but with added flavors.

[CritterMom]

Pick up one of those bulb irrigators they make for babies at the drug store and very, very carefully use it to clear the mucous out.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I purchased the powder form. Here is a link: https://www.petag.com/products/goats-milk-esbilac-powder. I decided to go with goat’s milk powder because it is gentler on the stomach and I could get it faster. I compared its ingredients to those of Fox Valley, and below is what I found. Since I was able to get the Esbilac powder at our local Tractor Supply I purchased it to start his feedings sooner. I will order the Fox Valley 20/50 today. :)

Goats' Milk Esbilac Powder
Main Ingredients: Goat milk powder/protein, whey protein, vegetable oil (with preservatives), maltodextrins (carbs), dextrose (sugar), casein (protein).
Additives/Thickeners: Guar gum, mono and diglycerides.
Minerals/Vitamins: Calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron, copper, vitamins A, D3, E, B12, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid.
Probiotics/Prebiotics: Bifidobacterium, Lactobacillus (for gut health), fructooligosaccharides (prebiotic fiber).
Preservatives: Tocopherols (vitamin E), ascorbyl palmitate, rosemary extract.

Fox Valley Formula 20/50
Main Ingredients: Corn syrup solids, whey protein, lactose, vegetable oil, casein.
Additives/Thickeners: Mono and diglycerides, natural/artificial flavors.
Minerals/Vitamins: Calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron, copper, vitamins A, D3, E, B12, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid.
Sugars: Corn syrup solids, lactose.

Key Differences:
Goats' Milk Esbilac Powder: Goat milk, probiotics, fewer sugars, more natural preservatives.
Fox Valley Formula 20/50: Corn syrup solids, lactose, simpler but with added flavors.

Hi CharlieR:
Yes; Esbilac Goats Milk and Puppy Milk Replacers Powder are available at many pet stores including PetSmart and available elsewhere such as Tractor Supply. This is a decided advantage to people who may suddenly find themselves to be a Squirrel Parent! Many formula labels are quite appealing and yet some of those have definitively found to be problematic while others are simply not well tested with Squirrels. Most of us here have had consistent successes with using Home Made Goat's Milk Formula (again, I don't use the egg that is suggested with the original recipe) for neonates, Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer POWDER for those older babies and Fox Valley 20/50 (or a half and half of FV 20/50 and Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder) beginning around 3.5 to 4 weeks and extending through weaning. That does NOT imply that other formulas may not work well although some as just mentioned; we know will likely be problematic. What making these particular recommendations really means is that there is a very extensive experiential database favoring the use of these three formula at appropriate ages and when use these, as we are sailing our Squirrel's nutrition ship in well charted seas! There may very well be other formulas that may work but in my way of looking at this; I'd rather not try something different when I know what already does work well! That is also the reason why most of us recommend these formulas! I was not in any way trying to challenge you in regard to your decision to use the Goat's Milk formulation. It is important for me to note however that BOTH the Esbilac Goat's Milk and the "regular" Puppy Milk Replacer powders ingredient list makes this statement; " The highly palatable formula features a special fiber blend plus prebiotics and probiotics for easy digestion, improved gut health, and a strong immune system." So, you can get the potential benefits of pre and probiotics with both formulas!

Please let us know how Charlie Squirrel is doing!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
Yes; Esbilac Goats Milk and Puppy Milk Replacers Powder are available at many pet stores including PetSmart and available elsewhere such as Tractor Supply. This is a decided advantage to people who may suddenly find themselves to be a Squirrel Parent! Many formula labels are quite appealing and yet some of those have definitively found to be problematic while others are simply not well tested with Squirrels. Most of us here have had consistent successes with using Home Made Goat's Milk Formula (again, I don't use the egg that is suggested with the original recipe) for neonates, Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer POWDER for those older babies and Fox Valley 20/50 (or a half and half of FV 20/50 and Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer Powder) beginning around 3.5 to 4 weeks and extending through weaning. That does NOT imply that other formulas may not work well although some as just mentioned; we know will likely be problematic. What making these particular recommendations really means is that there is a very extensive experiential database favoring the use of these three formula at appropriate ages and when use these, as we are sailing our Squirrel's nutrition ship in well charted seas! There may very well be other formulas that may work but in my way of looking at this; I'd rather not try something different when I know what already does work well! That is also the reason why most of us recommend these formulas! I was not in any way trying to challenge you in regard to your decision to use the Goat's Milk formulation. It is important for me to note however that BOTH the Esbilac Goat's Milk and the "regular" Puppy Milk Replacer powders ingredient list makes this statement; " The highly palatable formula features a special fiber blend plus prebiotics and probiotics for easy digestion, improved gut health, and a strong immune system." So, you can get the potential benefits of pre and probiotics with both formulas!

Please let us know how Charlie Squirrel is doing!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I truly appreciate it. You’re the expert and know what works. I'm a new squirrel parent :) and just wanted to explain why I chose that formula. I did see the other Esbilac you recommended and was torn between them.

Charlie sounds better tonight, but he is still breathing out of his mouth. I don’t have a baby bulb syringe, but I’ll be picking one up tomorrow. The Fox Valley has been ordered, and I’ll get more videos of him tomorrow to post. His appetite is increasing. :) Here is a picture of him before he went to bed tonight. 15 minutes prior he was trying to act like a big boy squirrel and sit up on his back feet and lift his tail.

[TomahawkFlyers]

My heart just melted into a puddle on the floor. What a sweet, sweet creature. Thank you for saving this squirrel's life. I bet the wheezing goes way down with the bulb.

Jamie

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Charlie sounds better tonight, but he is still breathing out of his mouth. I don’t have a baby bulb syringe, but I’ll be picking one up tomorrow. The Fox Valley has been ordered, and I’ll get more videos of him tomorrow to post. His appetite is increasing. :) Here is a picture of him before he went to bed tonight. 15 minutes prior he was trying to act like a big boy squirrel and sit up on his back feet and lift his tail.

Hi CharlieR:
Please be very cautious with using a bulb syringe on such a tiny being! Although bulb syringes are sold everywhere and no cautions are listed on the packages (if they are even packaged)! While there are certain potential benefits to using bulb syringes such as in certain cases where there are very wet secretions blocking the nasal passages, there are also some very significant risks to using these! I am not suggesting that you necessarily forego using a bulb syringe with Charlie, but I would like to suggest some precautions to follow.

Here are some comments about bulb syringes that I posted in another Thread and have modified to focus on Charlie:

Squirrels are obligate nose breathers (as are infant humans) and while they are able to breath through their mouths when absolutely necessary, they cannot simply change from nose breathing to mouth breathing and back and forth as necessary or desired as we adult humans can! Only when breathing through the nasal passages is significantly restricted or blocked or the Squirrel has such difficulty with air exchange in the lungs will they breath through their mouths and it is never normal and indicates significant breathing issues! This mouth breathing can result in desperate appearing breathing as mouth breathing for a Squirrel is totally foreign to him! They can do this effectively however but the efforts involved can result in the inability to keep up with the energy requirements of this unnatural (for a rodent) means of beathing. I would suggest utilizing a cool mist vaporizer to help humidify the air this little one is breathing which may help to loosen some of the material that may be blocking the nasal passages.

If you do opt for utilizing a bulb syringe (and it is certainly worth trying), I would suggest obtaining the very smallest bulb syringe available! Also, I would strongly recommend that you avoid actually pushing the tip into the nasal passages and just place it barely within the opening of the passage. Also, and of extreme importance is that only a very tiny depression of the bulb syringe is necessary to result in adequate or excessive suction. The bulb syringe should never be squeezed! You should just minimally depress the flat portion at the end of the bulb and do this BEFORE you place it in the nose (this avoidance is of extreme importance)! If you depress the bulb while the tip is in or near the nose it can force material within the nasal passages into the breathing passages or lungs or compress the material in the nose which will make it more difficult to remove and potentially add to Charlie's breathing difficulties! As excessive suction from a bulb syringe has caused problems in both animal and infant human patients, please follow these recommendations and also check the suction first on your own skin and adjust the amount of bulb depression accordingly. There should be only very slight suction developed!

Please keep on with updates on Charlie! Thank your for your love and care of Little Charlie Squirrel!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Hi everyone, it's been a busy day with Charlie. I purchased a bulb syringe, but it didn't work. He is definitely gaining strength and energy. Now weighing 45 grams! He sits up and will potty on his own before or after eating, and just a few minutes ago, his little eyes started opening. He’s still breathing through his mouth, but it's not as bad as before. We've started using the vaporizer, so hopefully, that will help clear him up. Here’s a video of him tonight, trying to reach for the covers and go to bed.

We are truly thankful for everyone on the forum. ❤️

https://youtu.be/ZxrScq4u3MM?si=yeIQW0CByms_HpPh

[TomahawkFlyers]

That has to be one of the sweetest things I've ever seen. Has he been successful in pulling his blanket over himself yet; or, do you still need to do it for him?

Jamie

[CharlieR]

That has to be one of the sweetest things I've ever seen. Has he been successful in pulling his blanket over himself yet; or, do you still need to do it for him?

Jamie

We still do it for him. If he comes out from underneath his blanket and gets cold, he will nuzzle his head under it and crawl back underneath.

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
Please be very cautious with using a bulb syringe on such a tiny being! Although bulb syringes are sold everywhere and no cautions are listed on the packages (if they are even packaged)! While there are certain potential benefits to using bulb syringes such as in certain cases where there are very wet secretions blocking the nasal passages, there are also some very significant risks to using these! I am not suggesting that you necessarily forego using a bulb syringe with Charlie, but I would like to suggest some precautions to follow.

Here are some comments about bulb syringes that I posted in another Thread and have modified to focus on Charlie:

Squirrels are obligate nose breathers (as are infant humans) and while they are able to breath through their mouths when absolutely necessary, they cannot simply change from nose breathing to mouth breathing and back and forth as necessary or desired as we adult humans can! Only when breathing through the nasal passages is significantly restricted or blocked or the Squirrel has such difficulty with air exchange in the lungs will they breath through their mouths and it is never normal and indicates significant breathing issues! This mouth breathing can result in desperate appearing breathing as mouth breathing for a Squirrel is totally foreign to him! They can do this effectively however but the efforts involved can result in the inability to keep up with the energy requirements of this unnatural (for a rodent) means of beathing. I would suggest utilizing a cool mist vaporizer to help humidify the air this little one is breathing which may help to loosen some of the material that may be blocking the nasal passages.

If you do opt for utilizing a bulb syringe (and it is certainly worth trying), I would suggest obtaining the very smallest bulb syringe available! Also, I would strongly recommend that you avoid actually pushing the tip into the nasal passages and just place it barely within the opening of the passage. Also, and of extreme importance is that only a very tiny depression of the bulb syringe is necessary to result in adequate or excessive suction. The bulb syringe should never be squeezed! You should just minimally depress the flat portion at the end of the bulb and do this BEFORE you place it in the nose (this avoidance is of extreme importance)! If you depress the bulb while the tip is in or near the nose it can force material within the nasal passages into the breathing passages or lungs or compress the material in the nose which will make it more difficult to remove and potentially add to Charlie's breathing difficulties! As excessive suction from a bulb syringe has caused problems in both animal and infant human patients, please follow these recommendations and also check the suction first on your own skin and adjust the amount of bulb depression accordingly. There should be only very slight suction developed!

Please keep on with updates on Charlie! Thank your for your love and care of Little Charlie Squirrel!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Good Morning. This morning, while feeding, I noticed some discharge on Charlie's ear (Pic #1). After he ate, while cleaning him up, I gently pressed on the lower side of his ear, and more fluid was expressed. It had a mucus-like consistency with a yellow tint (Pic #2). I gently wiped it away with a cotton swab (Pic #3), and it resembled nasal mucus. Could this be related to his pneumonia?328037328038328040

[lachy22]

[EAR DISCHARGE HELP!!!] Bumping so others with more knowledge can help!!!

While feeding him at other times today, is fluid still coming from his ear?
Are there any changes in his breathing? Is he still breathing from his mouth? Any wheezing or strange noises from his chest or mouth?


Good Morning. This morning, while feeding, I noticed some discharge on Charlie's ear (Pic #1). After he ate, while cleaning him up, I gently pressed on the lower side of his ear, and more fluid was expressed. It had a mucus-like consistency with a yellow tint (Pic #2). I gently wiped it away with a cotton swab (Pic #3), and it resembled nasal mucus. Could this be related to his pneumonia?328037328038328040

[CharlieR]

[EAR DISCHARGE HELP!!!] Bumping so others with more knowledge can help!!!

While feeding him at other times today, is fluid still coming from his ear?
Are there any changes in his breathing? Is he still breathing from his mouth? Any wheezing or strange noises from his chest or mouth?

Yes, there is still fluid coming from his ear, although it hasn't been everytime he eats. He's breathing has gotten a little better, but he is still breathing out of his mouth and making a click sound. There is no wheezing. When he is up moving he is constantly making a pftt sound.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Good Morning. This morning, while feeding, I noticed some discharge on Charlie's ear (Pic #1). After he ate, while cleaning him up, I gently pressed on the lower side of his ear, and more fluid was expressed. It had a mucus-like consistency with a yellow tint (Pic #2). I gently wiped it away with a cotton swab (Pic #3), and it resembled nasal mucus. Could this be related to his pneumonia?

Hi CharlieR:
I apologize for not being able to get back with you sooner! I'm sorry about the additional problems Charlie is having! Thanks Lachy22 helping with this Charlie's Thread! I have been busy with my work (that I am still fascinated with and addicted to, I guess!) and juggling some health issues as well and have simply been spread thin lately! Sorry!

Is the fluid truly cloudy or does it truly resemble nasal mucus which is clear? Also, when I study your photos of Charlie, it appears that the fluid is draining from the skin below his ear and not from the ear canal itself. Please clarify where the drainage originates. If this is from the skin below the ear, this is most likely from an abscess which is a pocket of pus or a seroma which is a pocket of serous fluid (clear but usually yellowish tinged fluid from between cells and/or from damaged cells). A seroma can originate from surgery which of course Charlie did not have or an injury. An abscess, though, is a sign of infection. If the fluid is draining from the ear canal itself, this may still be from an abscess or even seroma within the ear canal or it may be fluid leaking from the middle ear indicating a middle ear infection called an otitis media. For there to be fluid leaking from the middle ear which is behind the ear drum, there would need to be a rupture of the ear drum to allow the fluid to pass into the canal. This is certainly possible. If the fluid is from the ear canal, ideally, this should be addressed by a Veterinarian who would sedate (usually with some inhaled anesthetic agent such as isoflurane) Charlie and carefully examine the ear, examine the fluid under a microscope, send a specimen of the fluid to a lab if necessary, carefully clean out the fluid, look at the ear drum and ear canal and determine exactly what is going on and then prescribe appropriate treatment! An otitis media is quite common in human kids and relatively easy to treat but is far less common in small rodents or our cat or dog pets and an otitis media in a small animal often smolders and can be relatively difficult to eradicate and a Veterinarian can be very beneficial.

Do you have access to a SAFE, experienced Squirrel friendly Veterinarian (at least experienced with pet rodents such as Rats)?

I assume that Charlie is still taking the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate and if that is so and the fluid you are seeing is pus (cloudy whitish sometimes odorous fluid), this implies that the current antibiotics are not adequately treating the ear issue although if a pneumonia did or does exist, this may still be responding to the current antibiotics. Do you have any other any other antibiotics available or can be obtained from family or friends and if so, what are they and what are their strengths (an example only would be Cipro 100mg).

Is Charlie still taking formula avidly, working on the Blocks and pooping and peeing normally?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

The fluid is cloudy with a slight yellowish tint, coming from the lower inside part of his ear. When we clean it, it resembles long, stringy mucus.

We do not have a safe vet nearby.

He is still taking Amoxicillin with Clavulanate, and we have some Enrofloxacin 136mg tablets antibiotic.

He is still taking his formula, pooping, peeing, and gaining weight. When we weighed him, he was 50 grams.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

The fluid is cloudy with a slight yellowish tint, coming from the lower inside part of his ear. When we clean it, it resembles long, stringy mucus.

We do not have a safe vet nearby.

He is still taking Amoxicillin with Clavulanate, and we have some Enrofloxacin 136mg tablets antibiotic.

He is still taking his formula, pooping, peeing, and gaining weight. When we weighed him, he was 50 grams.

Hi CharlieR:
Does the cloudy fluid seem to be draining from a hole in the skin of the ear canal or a hole in the skin at the opening of the ear or does it seem to actually originate deeper within the ear canal and it is just draining out of the canal and accumulating where you are seeing it? I'm sorry to hear that there is no "safe" Veterinarian nearby but this is really no surprise. Do you want to start Charlie on the Enrofloxacin?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
Does the cloudy fluid seem to be draining from a hole in the skin of the ear canal or a hole in the skin at the opening of the ear or does it seem to actually originate deeper within the ear canal and it is just draining out of the canal and accumulating where you are seeing it? I'm sorry to hear that there is no "safe" Veterinarian nearby but this is really no surprise. Do you want to start Charlie on the Enrofloxacin?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I looked in his ear with a magnifying glass tonight, and it seems like the fluid is coming from the ear canal. It’s deeper in his little ear. Would the Enrofloxacin still help with his breathing? His breathing is definitely improving because his mouth isn’t as wide open anymore. Sometimes, when he naps, his mouth is even closed. I didn’t have to clean his ear during the last feeding, but he has another feeding in about 20 minutes.

Here are two more photos from two different times I cleaned his ear.
328060328061

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I looked in his ear with a magnifying glass tonight, and it seems like the fluid is coming from the ear canal. It’s deeper in his little ear. Would the Enrofloxacin still help with his breathing? His breathing is definitely improving because his mouth isn’t as wide open anymore. Sometimes, when he naps, his mouth is even closed. I didn’t have to clean his ear during the last feeding, but he has another feeding in about 20 minutes.

Here are two more photos from two different times I cleaned his ear.

Hi CharlieR:
Thanks! Please let us know how things continue to go! I (we) can give you dosing instructions for the enrofloxacin if you desire. I will be "on and off" TSB today while at work and I will check back with your Thread as often as I am able. There are also others here can help you and Charlie!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[lachy22]

[EAR DISCHARGE FLUID] Bumping this for others’ thoughts/opinions (since there have been a lot of new posts recently)! Thank you SamtheSquirrel for replying and continuously helping with this.


I looked in his ear with a magnifying glass tonight, and it seems like the fluid is coming from the ear canal. It’s deeper in his little ear. Would the Enrofloxacin still help with his breathing? His breathing is definitely improving because his mouth isn’t as wide open anymore. Sometimes, when he naps, his mouth is even closed. I didn’t have to clean his ear during the last feeding, but he has another feeding in about 20 minutes.

Here are two more photos from two different times I cleaned his ear.
328060328061

[Charley Chuckles]

Not sure this will be of any help but my Charley Chuckles had ear goop his whole life which is why I found this board many years ago.
His vet had me use Tresaderm ear drops.

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
Thanks! Please let us know how things continue to go! I (we) can give you dosing instructions for the enrofloxacin if you desire. I will be "on and off" TSB today while at work and I will check back with your Thread as often as I am able. There are also others here can help you and Charlie!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Can I get dosage instruction for the enrofloxacin?

[CharlieR]

Not sure this will be of any help but my Charley Chuckles had ear goop his whole life which is why I found this board many years ago.
His vet had me use Tresaderm ear drops.

Thank you so much for sending me this. His ears haven't had any fluid in them today, but he is still breathing with his mouth open.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Can I get dosage instruction for the enrofloxacin?

Hi CharlieR:
What is Charlie's current weight? Please confirm that you have 136mg tablets.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi CharlieR:
One other question; I believe that the 136mg tablets are scored for dividing in half. Please verify that your tablets are scored and whether or not you feel comfortable accurately breaking one of the tablets in half. For small animals, it is usually easier to start with a smaller amount of the medication. As an example, based upon Charlie's weight a couple of days ago (or whenever it was), a single 136mg tablet would yield almost 300 doses. It would conserve some medication if needed if some is lost by spillage or you just need some more for another Squirrel and mixing is usually somewhat easier with a smaller amount as not as much water would be needed but it can still be very easily accomplished with the whole tablet if you prefer!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[capdncrunchd]

Hello CharlieR,

My apologies if this was already covered. What were the circumstances of the rescue? The reason I ask is that I’ve had a number of situations where we’ve had baby squirrels that have suffered some minor trauma to the face/snout which resulted in inflammation and obstructed nasal passages (sneezing, mouth breathing, and nose bubbles all shared signs). I can’t tell from the pictures/video if there is any noticeable trauma or inflammation, but it’s worth considering as the treatment may then benefit from some NSAIDs.

I hope the little fella feels better.

Cheers,

Cap

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
One other question; I believe that the 136mg tablets are scored for dividing in half. Please verify that your tablets are scored and whether or not you feel comfortable accurately breaking one of the tablets in half. For small animals, it is usually easier to start with a smaller amount of the medication. As an example, based upon Charlie's weight a couple of days ago (or whenever it was), a single 136mg tablet would yield almost 300 doses. It would conserve some medication if needed if some is lost by spillage or you just need some more for another Squirrel and mixing is usually somewhat easier with a smaller amount as not as much water would be needed but it can still be very easily accomplished with the whole tablet if you prefer!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel


I'm so sorry I didn't get the alerts today. Charlie weighs 64 grams, and the pills are 136mg tablets. They are cross scored, so I can break into quarters.


Here are videos of Charlie today. One minute I feel like he’s getting better, and the next minute I feel like he’s getting worse. Can you let me know what you think? Are these sounds normal? Is he struggling to breathe? Is he scared? His little eyes were watering and a little puffy looking to me. The ear fluid has cleared up.


Charlie sleeping
https://youtube.com/shorts/fvjmuIQj0BI?si=NA-J4YtGEQtZyHvV

When I woke Charlie up
https://youtu.be/yXCCM9PtFsQ?si=jqyBs8p3qGOthh-7


After Charlie ate Lunch
https://youtube.com/shorts/iXjEu3TdTBE?si=aYlTG-tZXzW7QQRu


https://youtu.be/c1W2RNPQpJQ?si=c558Jh6ML0AWFoz0

[CharlieR]

Hello CharlieR,

My apologies if this was already covered. What were the circumstances of the rescue? The reason I ask is that I’ve had a number of situations where we’ve had baby squirrels that have suffered some minor trauma to the face/snout which resulted in inflammation and obstructed nasal passages (sneezing, mouth breathing, and nose bubbles all shared signs). I can’t tell from the pictures/video if there is any noticeable trauma or inflammation, but it’s worth considering as the treatment may then benefit from some NSAIDs.

I hope the little fella feels better.

Cheers,

Cap

Cap, we found Charlie on September 10th, around 11:30 pm, on the ground by a big oak tree next to our home. The drop from any possible nest would have been quite far. The previous Friday, we found what we believe to be his mother deceased, not far from the tree. There are hawks and feral cats in the area, and I think one of them may have gotten to her. It’s hard to understand how Charlie, being so young, could have survived so long without milk. Since it had been raining, maybe he drank some rainwater for hydration, just a guess, though.

Could they be allergic to things like cats or dogs? We have both in our home. Charlie isn’t around them and has his own room, but if he can be allergic that could be a possibility.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I'm so sorry I didn't get the alerts today. Charlie weighs 64 grams, and the pills are 136mg tablets. They are cross scored, so I can break into quarters.


Here are videos of Charlie today. One minute I feel like he’s getting better, and the next minute I feel like he’s getting worse. Can you let me know what you think? Are these sounds normal? Is he struggling to breathe? Is he scared? His little eyes were watering and a little puffy looking to me. The ear fluid has cleared up.

Hi CharlieR:
Charlie's breathing is abnormal! It seems as if he is opening or at least partially opening his mouth during each breath which again is a sign of a restriction in his nasal passages and/or a problem with getting enough air exchanged in his lungs. Even his rate and depth of breathing is exaggerated from normal! I wish he could be evaluated by a Vet and get some x-ray films taken BUT, I know this is not possible and I won't mention this again!

I'm glad the ear drainage has stopped! Does it appear that he may have some of the drainage dried or thickened and that is what is keeping further drainage from occurring or does it appear that his ear canal is truly clear and the cause of the drainage may very well be resolved?

With the possibility of there being a pneumonia and the assumption that the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate is not being optimally effective; would you want to start the Enrofloxacin? Do you have only the one tablet (just for the information as one tablet is actually far more than what will be needed)? What I will recommend, if of course you would like to try the Enrofloxacin would be to just break the tablet in have as accurately as possible but don't do this yet. I will send detailed instructions to you if your would like to opt for trying this new medication.

Does Charlie have his upper incisors developing (this should be happening at his assumed age)? If so, do they appear to be aligned or do they seem loose with gentle pressure applied to each (just use very light pressure to test this). I'm wondering if he may have fallen before your found him and has what would amount to a facial injury which has damage the support of his teeth and could easily involve the nasal passages.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Hi CharlieR:
Charlie's breathing is abnormal! It seems as if he is opening or at least partially opening his mouth during each breath which again is a sign of a restriction in his nasal passages and/or a problem with getting enough air exchanged in his lungs. Even his rate and depth of breathing is exaggerated from normal! I wish he could be evaluated by a Vet and get some x-ray films taken BUT, I know this is not possible and I won't mention this again!

I'm glad the ear drainage has stopped! Does it appear that he may have some of the drainage dried or thickened and that is what is keeping further drainage from occurring or does it appear that his ear canal is truly clear and the cause of the drainage may very well be resolved?

With the possibility of there being a pneumonia and the assumption that the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate is not being optimally effective; would you want to start the Enrofloxacin? Do you have only the one tablet (just for the information as one tablet is actually far more than what will be needed)? What I will recommend, if of course you would like to try the Enrofloxacin would be to just break the tablet in have as accurately as possible but don't do this yet. I will send detailed instructions to you if your would like to opt for trying this new medication.

Does Charlie have his upper incisors developing (this should be happening at his assumed age)? If so, do they appear to be aligned or do they seem loose with gentle pressure applied to each (just use very light pressure to test this). I'm wondering if he may have fallen before your found him and has what would amount to a facial injury which has damage the support of his teeth and could easily involve the nasal passages.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I completely understand about the x-ray! His ear looks clear, and there doesn’t seem to be any blockage that I can see. I’d like to try the Enrofloxacin; I have 2 tablets. Charlie’s upper teeth are coming in. This might sound crazy, but he had teeth the other day on top, and now they’re gone. The ones I can see now aren’t that far out yet, but they don’t feel loose. What confuses me is that he isn’t always breathing like this or making the sneezing or 'pfft' sounds. For example, he was just eating quietly, but once he started moving around, it began again. When we found him he wasn't making these sounds either. He started about 3ish days after we found him.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I completely understand about the x-ray! His ear looks clear, and there doesn’t seem to be any blockage that I can see. I’d like to try the Enrofloxacin; I have 2 tablets. Charlie’s upper teeth are coming in. This might sound crazy, but he had teeth the other day on top, and now they’re gone. The ones I can see now aren’t that far out yet, but they don’t feel loose. What confuses me is that he isn’t always breathing like this or making the sneezing or 'pfft' sounds. For example, he was just eating quietly, but once he started moving around, it began again. When we found him he wasn't making these sounds either. He started about 3ish days after we found him

Thanks CharlieR:
Could the "here yesterday gone today" upper incisors be from swelling of the mouth around the teeth? This may very well indicate facial trauma!

I sent Dosing Instructions for the Enrofloxacin to you by PM! Please look over these instructions carefully and ensure that you understand them, agree with these and the plan and have no questions that need to be addressed before you begin mixing and dosing this medication! Otherwise, please get back with me immediately regarding any questions or issues of concern!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[CharlieR]

Thanks CharlieR:
Could the "here yesterday gone today" upper incisors be from swelling of the mouth around the teeth? This may very well indicate facial trauma!

I sent Dosing Instructions for the Enrofloxacin to you by PM! Please look over these instructions carefully and ensure that you understand them, agree with these and the plan and have no questions that need to be addressed before you begin mixing and dosing this medication! Otherwise, please get back with me immediately regarding any questions or issues of concern!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Everything looks normal, and there doesn’t seem to be any swelling. Maybe we were just seeing his bottom teeth. Do you know if baby squirrels have teeth that they lose?

Could his breathing be related to allergies? Can baby squirrels be allergic to cats or dogs? I have tried looking but haven't found much information about that.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Everything looks normal, and there doesn’t seem to be any swelling. Maybe we were just seeing his bottom teeth. Do you know if baby squirrels have teeth that they lose?

Could his breathing be related to allergies? Can baby squirrels be allergic to cats or dogs? I have tried looking but haven't found much information about that.

Hi CharlieR:
Squirrels NEVER lose their four incisors and the never stop growing either! Allergy may be an issue here but this would be relatively unusual! I suspect otherwise!
Regards,
StS

[capdncrunchd]

Cap, we found Charlie on September 10th, around 11:30 pm, on the ground by a big oak tree next to our home. The drop from any possible nest would have been quite far. The previous Friday, we found what we believe to be his mother deceased, not far from the tree. There are hawks and feral cats in the area, and I think one of them may have gotten to her. It’s hard to understand how Charlie, being so young, could have survived so long without milk. Since it had been raining, maybe he drank some rainwater for hydration, just a guess, though.

Could they be allergic to things like cats or dogs? We have both in our home. Charlie isn’t around them and has his own room, but if he can be allergic that could be a possibility.

I certainly would not rule anything out, but we’ve not experienced cat/dog allergies with any of our rescues and we have 4 cats and 4 dogs.

As for drops, it is actually quite amazing how far they can fall without incurring serious injuries. It could also be that he started to make his way down the tree and fell from a lower height. With the new issue of incisors falling out, it may be worth treating with some anti-inflammatory meds such as Metacam in the event that there is some trauma.

[CharlieR]

Update: Charlie is doing much better and is now 94 grams!