Possible aspiration

[Animalfriends]

I have 2 baby southern flying squirrels and I'm concerned about aspiration.

I have these meds:
Doxycycline 100 MG
Amoxicillin 875 MG
Cephalexin 500 MG
Flagyl 500 MG

Weights are 25 grams and 30 grams.

Can any of these be started as a preventative and how much/how often?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I have 2 baby southern flying squirrels and I'm concerned about aspiration.

I have these meds:
Doxycycline 100 MG
Amoxicillin 875 MG
Cephalexin 500 MG
Flagyl 500 MG

Weights are 25 grams and 30 grams.

Can any of these be started as a preventative and how much/how often?

Hi Animalfriends:
I'm sorry that you have not had a response to your Emergency Thread yet. I am at work as usual and I can help as time permits. Was there an observed aspiration event? I saw you new post about one of your Squirrels who is now lethargic. Is the other Squirrel behaving normally? are there any other changes in how your Little Squirrels are behaving such as decreased appetite, respiratory distress or anything else? Are the babies warm and hydrated? Where are they kept; is it a plastic bin with flannel or fleece on the bottom? Do you have an Always On Heating Pad that you have or can put under (NOT inside) half the bin? This must be kept on low heat? What are you feeding these babies, how much with each feeding and how often are you feeding them? How did you come to have them in your care. Are you experienced with baby Squirrel care? Here is a link to Henry's Pets Baby Squirrel Guide. It is 6 pages of very important information presented very concisely. At this time, you only need to read the first 3 pages! The only issue with this Guide that you need to ignore is the suggestion for using Fox Valley 32/40. Henry's has not yet updated this Guide to eliminate this recommendation but the bottom line is, do NOT use FV 32/40! https://www.henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/

Of the medications you listed, are you certain that the Amoxicillin 875 is actually plain Amoxicillin or is it Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate (a human brand name is Augmentin)? Do you have a CURRENT weight in Grams obtained from a digital scale. Is the tablet scored so it can be broken in half accurately? The dose for such tiny Squirrels is very small and with tablet containing 785mg of the medication; most likely there are several hundred doses contained in that tablet and this will need to be diluted with quite a bit of water to get a dosing that will be enough in volume for your to accurately draw up in a 1cc syringe (NO needle) and then administer it to your Squirrel in an amount that is not too much for your Squirrel to swallow with ease!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Animalfriends]

Yes I am familiar with rehabbing them. They are in a clear container with the heating pad on them on low not directly in the cage. They are being fed ebsilac and take about 1.5 to 2cc per feeding around every 3-4 hours. They also have started working on rodent blocks and kale. They get a small amount of plain whole fat yogurt with no artificial sweeteners in it. I've never had any babies with issues so this part I am unfamiliar with and just want to make sure I'm prepared to help.
The babies were given to me by a friend. Mom was killed. They did choke during a feeding but I did not witness it. Last night she was very lethargic and mouth breathing. By evening she perked up and ate some. This morning she was awake and ate well. She's not super active but it's a huge improvement from last night. She's definitely getting more into a nocturnal schedule and she is not always active in the mornings . Yesterday she seemed very fatigued and her breathing was off. I truly thought we would lose her during the night. She was clicking.
I'm not sure if I should start an antibiotic as a precaution since I know not all aspirations lead to pneumonia. I also know that she was turned upside down when it happened and spit up. No nasal drainage now. No clicking. I used baytril with small rodents previously but I do not have this and have no ability to get it. I do have amoxicillin 875 MG. The tablets are scored. I also have it in liquid suspension 400mg/5ml. Her weight was 29.8 grams yesterday. I do have a small scale I use.
What is the new formula recommendation? I'd like to order something better for them since I didn't have much on hand and was not planning on this. Thank you for your help!

[supersquirrelgirl]

is your liquid amox still in powder ??

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Yes I am familiar with rehabbing them. They are in a clear container with the heating pad on them on low not directly in the cage. They are being fed ebsilac and take about 1.5 to 2cc per feeding around every 3-4 hours. They also have started working on rodent blocks and kale. They get a small amount of plain whole fat yogurt with no artificial sweeteners in it. I've never had any babies with issues so this part I am unfamiliar with and just want to make sure I'm prepared to help.
The babies were given to me by a friend. Mom was killed. They did choke during a feeding but I did not witness it. Last night she was very lethargic and mouth breathing. By evening she perked up and ate some. This morning she was awake and ate well. She's not super active but it's a huge improvement from last night. She's definitely getting more into a nocturnal schedule and she is not always active in the mornings . Yesterday she seemed very fatigued and her breathing was off. I truly thought we would lose her during the night. She was clicking.
I'm not sure if I should start an antibiotic as a precaution since I know not all aspirations lead to pneumonia. I also know that she was turned upside down when it happened and spit up. No nasal drainage now. No clicking. I used baytril with small rodents previously but I do not have this and have no ability to get it. I do have amoxicillin 875 MG. The tablets are scored. I also have it in liquid suspension 400mg/5ml. Her weight was 29.8 grams yesterday. I do have a small scale I use.
What is the new formula recommendation? I'd like to order something better for them since I didn't have much on hand and was not planning on this. Thank you for your help!

Hi AnimalFriends and thanks for the reply! How old are your Squirrels? I am not certain as to what you mean by "what is the new formula recommendation!" Please clarify this. You are using "Esbilac" but there are a number of Esbilac formulas and the ONLY one I would recommend using is Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer POWDER (the liquid formulation is apparently different and diarrhea and some other issues have been reported with its use!).

As far as the presumed aspiration event goes; all of these are potentially very serious but in reality, very few aspirations of formula result in pneumonias! That being said, there are major risks just from the aspiration itself, not just the pneumonia that might result from it! One of the risks is what amounts to asphyxia from formula blocking a significant amount of lung area with gas exchange should be occurring and also from its presence itself which can cause activation of normal protective responses such as constriction of breathing passages that can involve the upper part of the windpipe at the laryngeal region and these can persist longer than necessary and also limit air exchange!

Giving antibiotics to prevent a pneumonia sounds like a good idea but it is not without very significant risk! By the way, I'm a little late in mentioning my usual disclaimer so I had better do that now; I am not a Veterinarian! I'll still offer my opinions, however and you of course will need to make the decisions! Antibiotics sound like they are the answer for every health concern and there is no getting around the fact that antibiotics have saved countless animal and human lives BUT they are not without risk. Their very function can also cause problems as they do kill bacteria, even in healthy animals and this may very well be "healthy" or harmless bacteria. This disturbs the balance of bacteria that reside in and on the animal and that in itself can cause problems. Whenever antibiotics are are given, we end up selecting out bacteria that are resistant to the family of antibiotics that are used so if an infection does occur even weeks later, it is likely that these same antibiotics if use again; will be ineffective and a different antibiotics are usually recommended if a prior antibiotic was given recently! Also, one of the primary issues that must be considered before antibiotics are prescribed is whether or not there is likely to be some benefit to their use! If not, there is only risk, so why use them in those cases (a rhetorical question)?

I cannot tell you for certain that your Squirrel does NOT have a pneumonia but if he is normally active, normally interactive with his littermate and with you, consuming formula normally and pooping and peeing normally; most likely he is ok. In regard to the mouth breathing that you mentioned, this is NEVER normal as Squirrels and most rodents (and neonatal humans also) are obligate nose breathers and while they are able to breath through their mouths, they cannot simply changed between nose and mouth breathing and back again as we can as adult humans! When a Squirrel breaths through its mouth it is usually some sort of obvious "struggle" going on and there can be audible noises. Usually, mouth breathing occurs when the upper airways (the nose and nasal passages) are blocked or restricted such as with formula that entered these passages from an aspiration or partial aspiration or with nasal congestion. Mouth breathing can also occur with difficulty with normal air exchange in the lungs such as may occur with a pneumonia. There is no way that you can hear the actual lung sounds with the unaided ear. A stethoscope is necessary for this especially in Pinks or the very tiny Flyers! The audible clicking that many talk about cannot be coming from the lungs themselves and is often accompanying attempts to mouth breath or breath through restricted upper airway breathing passages!

Another concern for the antibiotics is that IF they are truly needed, proper and effective dosing of a tiny baby Squirrel is not easy. We must ensure not just that the dose is accurately calculated (which really is quite simple) but we must ensure that the calculated does can accurately and completely be administered to the Squirrel. Just as examples to illustrate these points; if we does an amount of antibiotic suspension that would be more than your Squirrel could swallow, it will not be optimally effective and the reverse also has concerns! IF the amount to be administered is so small that accurate placement in the syringe and administration to the Squirrel may not be definitively ensured; this too poses concerns and risks! As an example, if we use the 400mg/5ml of Amoxicillin as an example only; one ml of this formulation contains 80 potential doses of Amoxicillin for your tiny Squirrel! This is not a "deal-breaker" by any means but a further dilution strategy would be more optimal! Just one more examples is if we used the entire 875mg tablet for dilution, this would contain over 1400 potential doses and would require some dilution "gymnastics!"

Again, please evaluate your Squirrel's current status as far as the issues I mentioned and any others that you feel inclined to consider (and please do so!). IF you feel that your would feel inclined to administer antibiotics to your Squirrel, I will help with some mixing and doing recommendations BUT if the use of antibiotics cannot be reasonably justified, I would recommend against using them just to "prevent something!" This alternative, in most cases poses considerable risk with no likely potential benefit. Again, the decision is yours but at least you have MHNVO (my humble non-Vet opinion) on the issue!

Also, I am still at work so my availability will be unpredictable but I will get back to TSB as I am able. There are also others her who can help!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Animalfriends]

is your liquid amox still in powder ??

No it's mixed already.

[Animalfriends]

Hi AnimalFriends and thanks for the reply! How old are your Squirrels? I am not certain as to what you mean by "what is the new formula recommendation!" Please clarify this. You are using "Esbilac" but there are a number of Esbilac formulas and the ONLY one I would recommend using is Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer POWDER (the liquid formulation is apparently different and diarrhea and some other issues have been reported with its use!).

As far as the presumed aspiration event goes; all of these are potentially very serious but in reality, very few aspirations of formula result in pneumonias! That being said, there are major risks just from the aspiration itself, not just the pneumonia that might result from it! One of the risks is what amounts to asphyxia from formula blocking a significant amount of lung area with gas exchange should be occurring and also from its presence itself which can cause activation of normal protective responses such as constriction of breathing passages that can involve the upper part of the windpipe at the laryngeal region and these can persist longer than necessary and also limit air exchange!

Giving antibiotics to prevent a pneumonia sounds like a good idea but it is not without very significant risk! By the way, I'm a little late in mentioning my usual disclaimer so I had better do that now; I am not a Veterinarian! I'll still offer my opinions, however and you of course will need to make the decisions! Antibiotics sound like they are the answer for every health concern and there is no getting around the fact that antibiotics have saved countless animal and human lives BUT they are not without risk. Their very function can also cause problems as they do kill bacteria, even in healthy animals and this may very well be "healthy" or harmless bacteria. This disturbs the balance of bacteria that reside in and on the animal and that in itself can cause problems. Whenever antibiotics are are given, we end up selecting out bacteria that are resistant to the family of antibiotics that are used so if an infection does occur even weeks later, it is likely that these same antibiotics if use again; will be ineffective and a different antibiotics are usually recommended if a prior antibiotic was given recently! Also, one of the primary issues that must be considered before antibiotics are prescribed is whether or not there is likely to be some benefit to their use! If not, there is only risk, so why use them in those cases (a rhetorical question)?

I cannot tell you for certain that your Squirrel does NOT have a pneumonia but if he is normally active, normally interactive with his littermate and with you, consuming formula normally and pooping and peeing normally; most likely he is ok. In regard to the mouth breathing that you mentioned, this is NEVER normal as Squirrels and most rodents (and neonatal humans also) are obligate nose breathers and while they are able to breath through their mouths, they cannot simply changed between nose and mouth breathing and back again as we can as adult humans! When a Squirrel breaths through its mouth it is usually some sort of obvious "struggle" going on and there can be audible noises. Usually, mouth breathing occurs when the upper airways (the nose and nasal passages) are blocked or restricted such as with formula that entered these passages from an aspiration or partial aspiration or with nasal congestion. Mouth breathing can also occur with difficulty with normal air exchange in the lungs such as may occur with a pneumonia. There is no way that you can hear the actual lung sounds with the unaided ear. A stethoscope is necessary for this especially in Pinks or the very tiny Flyers! The audible clicking that many talk about cannot be coming from the lungs themselves and is often accompanying attempts to mouth breath or breath through restricted upper airway breathing passages!

Another concern for the antibiotics is that IF they are truly needed, proper and effective dosing of a tiny baby Squirrel is not easy. We must ensure not just that the dose is accurately calculated (which really is quite simple) but we must ensure that the calculated does can accurately and completely be administered to the Squirrel. Just as examples to illustrate these points; if we does an amount of antibiotic suspension that would be more than your Squirrel could swallow, it will not be optimally effective and the reverse also has concerns! IF the amount to be administered is so small that accurate placement in the syringe and administration to the Squirrel may not be definitively ensured; this too poses concerns and risks! As an example, if we use the 400mg/5ml of Amoxicillin as an example only; one ml of this formulation contains 80 potential doses of Amoxicillin for your tiny Squirrel! This is not a "deal-breaker" by any means but a further dilution strategy would be more optimal! Just one more examples is if we used the entire 875mg tablet for dilution, this would contain over 1400 potential doses and would require some dilution "gymnastics!"

Again, please evaluate your Squirrel's current status as far as the issues I mentioned and any others that you feel inclined to consider (and please do so!). IF you feel that your would feel inclined to administer antibiotics to your Squirrel, I will help with some mixing and doing recommendations BUT if the use of antibiotics cannot be reasonably justified, I would recommend against using them just to "prevent something!" This alternative, in most cases poses considerable risk with no likely potential benefit. Again, the decision is yours but at least you have MHNVO (my humble non-Vet opinion) on the issue!

Also, I am still at work so my availability will be unpredictable but I will get back to TSB as I am able. There are also others her who can help!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you so much. The 2 milk replacers I was referring to were both puppy milk and both are powdered. The difference between the 2 is that one says goats milk puppy milk replacer and the other says puppy milk replacer. Both are powdered and the correct brand so i was unsure what one i should use. And I am not sure which fox valley I should be buying. I do not know an age for these guys. I would guess between maybe 6-7 weeks based on the info I have found but I cannot find anything that tells me a better idea of aging them. Both have full fur on their bellies. Eyes are open. They have an interest in solid foods. They do chew at rodent blocks and kale and love the yogurt. They still snooze a lot but are beginning to play and interact with each other more. The boy is around 25 grams and the girl is around 29 grams. They have steadily been gaining weight.

Today they are perfect. Both are eating well and peeing and pooping. No mouth breathing. No signs of any trouble at all. They are seeking out their own solids too if they want a snack. I don't feel at this point that the antibiotic is necessary. I am a nurse (not for animals) so I was concerned about creating a resistant organism or depleting good bacteria. They are so small so I was terrified of dosing. I would like to know what to do in case anything changes and I need to act fast. But I do think they are good today.

I also want to say thank you for being so kind and supportive. Any baby animal in general frightens me at times because they are all so fragile. So many people argue about the care of these guys and I'm just wanting to learn as much as I can so I can do the best I can.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you so much. The 2 milk replacers I was referring to were both puppy milk and both are powdered. The difference between the 2 is that one says goats milk puppy milk replacer and the other says puppy milk replacer. Both are powdered and the correct brand so i was unsure what one i should use. And I am not sure which fox valley I should be buying. I do not know an age for these guys. I would guess between maybe 6-7 weeks based on the info I have found but I cannot find anything that tells me a better idea of aging them. Both have full fur on their bellies. Eyes are open. They have an interest in solid foods. They do chew at rodent blocks and kale and love the yogurt. They still snooze a lot but are beginning to play and interact with each other more. The boy is around 25 grams and the girl is around 29 grams. They have steadily been gaining weight.

Today they are perfect. Both are eating well and peeing and pooping. No mouth breathing. No signs of any trouble at all. They are seeking out their own solids too if they want a snack. I don't feel at this point that the antibiotic is necessary. I am a nurse (not for animals) so I was concerned about creating a resistant organism or depleting good bacteria. They are so small so I was terrified of dosing. I would like to know what to do in case anything changes and I need to act fast. But I do think they are good today.

I also want to say thank you for being so kind and supportive. Any baby animal in general frightens me at times because they are all so fragile. So many people argue about the care of these guys and I'm just wanting to learn as much as I can so I can do the best I can.

Thanks for the update! At work I type on my phone and this usually leaves many typos including this time where I inadvertently typed "does" instead of "dose" but aside from you wondering if I am capable of utilizing the majority of the neurons in my pecan sized brain; I'm sure that you understood what I intended to type!

Of the two Esbilac milk replacers, I would suggest ONLY the "non-goat" Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer POWDER and for the forthcoming Fox Valley order, I would recommend obtaining FV 20/50. You can use this though weaning or you can mix the Esbilac with the 20/50, 1 part each (a half & half mixture) and use this until weaning. When mixing any powdered formula it is essential to ensure that all the tiny bits of powder is in solution and left as tiny bits of powder held in suspension! Most of the manufacturers recommend that NO blender be utilized, they leave out several important mixing instructions and cautions. IF the powder is not completely dissolved, the tiny powder bits are not likely to be digested because the baby Squirrel's digestive system and functioning is immature and not fully functional. This can result in suboptimal nutritional support also and much more likely to result is a diarrhea! To help prevent this, mix the Esbilac (and the FV 20/50 is mixed the same way) with 1 part powder to two parts very warm water and shake this in a bottle or vigorously mix it by other mechanical means. FV recommends using a water temperature of 100 degree F for mixing but IMHO, this is not an optimal temperature and I would recommend using water far warmer than that. I would recommend at least full hot which on most home water systems is somewhere around 120-140 degrees but even warmer is fine as long as you do NOT reach or approach boiling. I use around 170 Degrees! Mix in the powder, vigorously stir this then and let it sit in the refrigerator for at least 4 hours and preferably 6-8 hours which will help result in complete dissolving of the powder! Before use, this should again be mixed but be careful to avoid mixing significant amounts of air! Mix only enough formular for 24 hours at the most and dispose of any formula no later than 24 hours following mixing. Except right before feeding, all mixed formula should be kept in the refrigerator and ALL powdered Formula should be kept in the freezer until momentarily removed to mix a new batch. The formula to be fed should be drawn up in a 1cc syringe with an attached specialized nipple such as the Miracle Nipple. Next a cup of water should be heated to 102-105 degrees F and the syringe should be placed in the warm water for 30 seconds to warm the formula and then the syringe should be removed and rocked gently several times for a final mixing. You can place drop on the back of your hand to ensure it is warm but not uncomfortable!

Just for completeness sake, here is a link to Henry's Pets Guide for Baby Squirrel Care but there is one issue that needs to be updated and this has not yet been done and that is to avoid FV 32/40 at least with Pinkies and very young Squirrels but my suggestion would be to just AVOID 32/40 across the board; https://www.henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/

Please keep on with the updates!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Animalfriends]

Thanks for the update! At work I type on my phone and this usually leaves many typos including this time where I inadvertently typed "does" instead of "dose" but aside from you wondering if I am capable of utilizing the majority of the neurons in my pecan sized brain; I'm sure that you understood what I intended to type!

Of the two Esbilac milk replacers, I would suggest ONLY the "non-goat" Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer POWDER and for the forthcoming Fox Valley order, I would recommend obtaining FV 20/50. You can use this though weaning or you can mix the Esbilac with the 20/50, 1 part each (a half & half mixture) and use this until weaning. When mixing any powdered formula it is essential to ensure that all the tiny bits of powder is in solution and left as tiny bits of powder held in suspension! Most of the manufacturers recommend that NO blender be utilized, they leave out several important mixing instructions and cautions. IF the powder is not completely dissolved, the tiny powder bits are not likely to be digested because the baby Squirrel's digestive system and functioning is immature and not fully functional. This can result in suboptimal nutritional support also and much more likely to result is a diarrhea! To help prevent this, mix the Esbilac (and the FV 20/50 is mixed the same way) with 1 part powder to two parts very warm water and shake this in a bottle or vigorously mix it by other mechanical means. FV recommends using a water temperature of 100 degree F for mixing but IMHO, this is not an optimal temperature and I would recommend using water far warmer than that. I would recommend at least full hot which on most home water systems is somewhere around 120-140 degrees but even warmer is fine as long as you do NOT reach or approach boiling. I use around 170 Degrees! Mix in the powder, vigorously stir this then and let it sit in the refrigerator for at least 4 hours and preferably 6-8 hours which will help result in complete dissolving of the powder! Before use, this should again be mixed but be careful to avoid mixing significant amounts of air! Mix only enough formular for 24 hours at the most and dispose of any formula no later than 24 hours following mixing. Except right before feeding, all mixed formula should be kept in the refrigerator and ALL powdered Formula should be kept in the freezer until momentarily removed to mix a new batch. The formula to be fed should be drawn up in a 1cc syringe with an attached specialized nipple such as the Miracle Nipple. Next a cup of water should be heated to 102-105 degrees F and the syringe should be placed in the warm water for 30 seconds to warm the formula and then the syringe should be removed and rocked gently several times for a final mixing. You can place drop on the back of your hand to ensure it is warm but not uncomfortable!

Just for completeness sake, here is a link to Henry's Pets Guide for Baby Squirrel Care but there is one issue that needs to be updated and this has not yet been done and that is to avoid FV 32/40 at least with Pinkies and very young Squirrels but my suggestion would be to just AVOID 32/40 across the board; https://www.henryspets.com/1-baby-squirrel-care-guide/

Please keep on with the updates!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you! Is there a way to determine their age? You have been so helpful and I really appreciate it! I am typing on a phone myself and keep seeing my own typos to fix.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you! Is there a way to determine their age? You have been so helpful and I really appreciate it! I am typing on a phone myself and keep seeing my own typos to fix.

Hello again Animalfriends:
Here is a link to an article based upon a very old study that was published in a Wildlife Journal. This "summary" is in my opinion, very concise, well done and quite usable and is base upon "milestone" developmental changes that occur normally during the first 6 weeks of a baby Squirrel's life; https://howlongdosquirrelslive.com/how-to-figure-out-the-age-of-a-baby-squirrel/

What are your Squirrel's names?
Please keep on with updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Animalfriends]

Hello again Animalfriends:
Here is a link to an article based upon a very old study that was published in a Wildlife Journal. This "summary" is in my opinion, very concise, well done and quite usable and is base upon "milestone" developmental changes that occur normally during the first 6 weeks of a baby Squirrel's life; https://howlongdosquirrelslive.com/how-to-figure-out-the-age-of-a-baby-squirrel/

What are your Squirrel's names?
Please keep on with updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I was estimating them to be somewhere between 6-7 weeks old because their eyes and ears are open. They have full fur. I just wasn't sure how big they should be since they are flyers.

We were thinking of naming the boy Gizmo because I call them little gremlins when they eat lol. The girl I'm still thinking of a name for. She definitely was the one who scared me. I truly thought we were losing her.

We lost the third one but she had a lot of birth defects too and seemed incredibly behind the other 2 developmentally. She had toes fused together and had a very strange head shape. I also believe something in her GI tract was severely underdeveloped.

The two remaining ones are amazing. They are active and interacting with each other. I found a fleece house type thing for them yesterday and they love it. It looks like a little army tent. They absolutely go crazy over yogurt. (Is there a limit to how much they can have? I read that it's a good source of calcium and I only give them about 1/4 tsp daily.) They are doing fairly well with rodent blocks. I was amazed to see last night that they ate a lot of one during the night. I'm thinking it's time to add water to their house but I'm not sure of the best option. I think they will soak themselves with a shallow dish. I was considering a bird style feeder. It has a small open hole at the bottom they could lap water at but couldn't fit their bodies or heads up. Any recommendations? Or is it too early yet?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I'm thinking it's time to add water to their house but I'm not sure of the best option. I think they will soak themselves with a shallow dish. I was considering a bird style feeder. It has a small open hole at the bottom they could lap water at but couldn't fit their bodies or heads up. Any recommendations? Or is it too early yet?

Let's ask TomahawkFlyers for his opinion as he knows Flyers very well and has a good deal of experience raising baby Flyers! I'll send a PM to him and ask him to post his opinion.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[TomahawkFlyers]

Hi! Dinner just his the table - I'll be back shortly. In the meantime, please hold off on the water.

Jamie

[TomahawkFlyers]

Hi Animalfriends,

What a wonderful gift it is to be able to raise flyers! I am sorry about your third little guy. It might help to know that flyers are rather indifferent when it comes to decisions regarding "survival of the fittest." That kid would almost certainly have been ejected from the nest only to become a snack or a meal for some creature higher on the food chain. It passed in warmth and safety - thanks to you.

Now, about water. As you have mixed Esbilac and are now probably in transition to Fox Valley 20/50, you know that the bulk of that formula is water. It's just in a nutritious form that is highly desirable to your babies. We have found that no additional water is necessary or desired until a baby is transitioning to solid food. Your kids will start to reject the 20/50 when their bodies tell them they need solids. We've never had one confused about that. They'll start drinking less formula, you'll worry that they're not getting enough to eat and you'll check in with the food pyramid and list of known good foods at Henry's Healthy Pets. You'll offer some of these things to your babies, they'll be excitedly delighted, drink less formula and eat more solids. You'll stop worrying. Shortly after that you'll hold the formula syringe to their mouths and they'll refuse it entirely. Just like that, transition complete.

We tried bird and small animal waterers when we started. The kids couldn't lift or roll the ball in the ends of the big ones, and the little ones leaked into their cages and bedding. Since then, we have relied solely on wide-bottomed, shallow, non-tip bowls. The kids do not try to swim in them, they share space at the edge and drink together, and every once in awhile will drop some tidbit of food in the water to let us know that food is not desirable to them. Best of all, the water is fresh, clean, and cool at the start of every day.

I am currently helping Craig, a young man working with great love through the process of raising a baby flyer who is just about the same age as yours. There is quite a bit of information there, including some critical bits that will keep your kids out of harm's way. I invite you to read through what is there and feel absolutely free to ask for clarifications or new information.

Dinner, by the way, was my wife's homemade East Coast tavern pizza. I am now in a food coma. That's OK, there are leftovers for cold pizza for breakfast.

Jamie

Craig: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?70867-I-m-new-any-help-appreciated

[Animalfriends]

Hi Animalfriends,

What a wonderful gift it is to be able to raise flyers! I am sorry about your third little guy. It might help to know that flyers are rather indifferent when it comes to decisions regarding "survival of the fittest." That kid would almost certainly have been ejected from the nest only to become a snack or a meal for some creature higher on the food chain. It passed in warmth and safety - thanks to you.

Now, about water. As you have mixed Esbilac and are now probably in transition to Fox Valley 20/50, you know that the bulk of that formula is water. It's just in a nutritious form that is highly desirable to your babies. We have found that no additional water is necessary or desired until a baby is transitioning to solid food. Your kids will start to reject the 20/50 when their bodies tell them they need solids. We've never had one confused about that. They'll start drinking less formula, you'll worry that they're not getting enough to eat and you'll check in with the food pyramid and list of known good foods at Henry's Healthy Pets. You'll offer some of these things to your babies, they'll be excitedly delighted, drink less formula and eat more solids. You'll stop worrying. Shortly after that you'll hold the formula syringe to their mouths and they'll refuse it entirely. Just like that, transition complete.

We tried bird and small animal waterers when we started. The kids couldn't lift or roll the ball in the ends of the big ones, and the little ones leaked into their cages and bedding. Since then, we have relied solely on wide-bottomed, shallow, non-tip bowls. The kids do not try to swim in them, they share space at the edge and drink together, and every once in awhile will drop some tidbit of food in the water to let us know that food is not desirable to them. Best of all, the water is fresh, clean, and cool at the start of every day.

I am currently helping Craig, a young man working with great love through the process of raising a baby flyer who is just about the same age as yours. There is quite a bit of information there, including some critical bits that will keep your kids out of harm's way. I invite you to read through what is there and feel absolutely free to ask for clarifications or new information.

Dinner, by the way, was my wife's homemade East Coast tavern pizza. I am now in a food coma. That's OK, there are leftovers for cold pizza for breakfast.

Jamie

Craig: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?70867-I-m-new-any-help-appreciated



Thank you for sharing. I appreciate the information! My little guys have started trying kale, rodent blocks, and yogurt. They still love their formula too. I love seeing them play and interact with each other. I'll hold off on water until off of formula and then try a shallow bowl.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Perfect. Treasure them - they are a gift.

Jamie

[Animalfriends]

Can either of you recommend how to transition them to the fox valley formula? The 20/50 will be arriving soon. I don't want them to have any problems transitioning.

[TomahawkFlyers]

This is easy to do. Start with 75% Esbilac to 25% Fox Valley for a couple of days, then 50/50 for a couple of days, then 25/75 for a couple of days, then Fox Valley straight up until they get interested in solids and turn down the 20/50. When they're starting on solids, they'll need clean water to replace the water they're no longer getting in the 20/50. Sounds as if things are going well?

Jamie

[Animalfriends]

They are doing well. They are eating more solids and really enjoy the rodent blocks, kale, and yogurt. They still take formula regularly. Should I offer water now?

And when I mix formula and split it that way do I combine the formulas when mixing or do I mix separate and then combine?

[CritterMom]

Mix the new formula according to the directions and mix another container of the old formula as you have been, and then mix those two together in a third container in the differing ratios of each as the time passes.

[Animalfriends]

They are both doing very well. They ate about a whole rodent block between them last night, which that is a first. They are starting to show their personalities a little bit more and play and wrestle.

I have one more additional question. Should I be limiting the amount of whole fat yogurt that they get in a day or in a week? I typically leave them a little bit less than a tablespoon per day while I am at work and at bedtime. In addition to that, they have kale, and they also have their rodent blocks and a few freeze dried worms. Is there such a thing as too much yogurt in a day? I thought it would be good to give them something like that while I am away since they are just starting on solids. Thank you all for your advice and input. It's amazing to watch them thrive!

[TomahawkFlyers]

They're pretty much self-regulating. The amount of yogurt you are providing should be fine. If they're eating block, it is time for water. Shallow bowl, heavy/non-tip bottom. Put an ice cube in there and they will thank you! It is great to hear that they are doing well!

Jamie

[Sandy9]

I also have a baby squirrel that I think has aspperated and has pneumonia it has the clicking sound going on and I don't have any thing except clyndamycin 150 mg capsules could i give him that and hoe would i give it

[Sandy9]

I'm sorry I meant how not hoe sorry

[Animalfriends]

I also have a baby squirrel that I think has aspperated and has pneumonia it has the clicking sound going on and I don't have any thing except clyndamycin 150 mg capsules could i give him that and hoe would i give it

It may be best to post this as a new thread in the life threatening emergency board so someone sees it right away. I'm sorry I can't help with dosing.

[Animalfriends]

They're pretty much self-regulating. The amount of yogurt you are providing should be fine. If they're eating block, it is time for water. Shallow bowl, heavy/non-tip bottom. Put an ice cube in there and they will thank you! It is great to hear that they are doing well!

Jamie

I noticed tonight that the girl has whiter paler poops. Still solid. I'm assuming it's one of 2 things. Either she overate at the last feeding or maybe it's from the extra calcium with the yogurt. She is still taking the 5-6% of her weight per feeding so I don't think its overfeeding but she did want food sooner than normal tonight so maybe it is just that it was too soon. She has a way of letting me know she is ready for it. I'm thinking of lowering yogurt to maybe once a day?

The boy on the other hand seems to want more solid foods and less formula. I know you mentioned this happening and me wondering what was happening. I'm not worried since he is eating kale and rodent blocks. I'm still planning to keep offering formula but he just started not wanting it and preferring solids more. Is it ok that it's this early he is taking less? They both have gained a few grams in the past days and are so active and playful so I know they are in good health.

I did try water tonight in a little shallow dish. Just a small amount and the boy liked it! I'm going to order a more permanent dish for them.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Sounds as if things are going very well. A lot of calcium often results in the passing of unprocessed calcium - and it makes the stool white. It's not harmful, but you can cut back a little if you're uncomfortable about it.

These kids are self regulating. When one or the other starts refusing formula and preferring a diet of block and healthy sides, let them enjoy! And, yes, it is time for water when they reduce intake of formula. An ice cube gives them something to chew on (good for his teeth!) and a nice cold treat. You're doing great, and as a result your squirrels are thriving. Reach around, find your shoulder blade, and give yourself a pat on the back!

Jamie

[Animalfriends]

Sounds as if things are going very well. A lot of calcium often results in the passing of unprocessed calcium - and it makes the stool white. It's not harmful, but you can cut back a little if you're uncomfortable about it.

These kids are self regulating. When one or the other starts refusing formula and preferring a diet of block and healthy sides, let them enjoy! And, yes, it is time for water when they reduce intake of formula. An ice cube gives them something to chew on (good for his teeth!) and a nice cold treat. You're doing great, and as a result your squirrels are thriving. Reach around, find your shoulder blade, and give yourself a pat on the back!

Jamie

As long as it's not harmful then I'm happy! Too much calcium sounds better than not enough! I tried the ice cube last night and they weren't too sure about it. One is crazy about formula and the other is only here and there. They are thriving! Thank you for the help!

[TomahawkFlyers]

PLEASE CHECK YOUR PM! PHONE OR FACETIME RIGHT AWAY! WHAT WAS HAPPENING JUST BEFORE SHE STARTED GASPING? CAN YOU SHOW HER TO ME?

[TomahawkFlyers]

What was she eating? Solids? Did she get too much at one and choke? Is she still with us? Are you able to see in her mouth if anything is lodged in there? Are you able to hold her upside down and rub her back vigorously but not so hard as to hurt her?

Please contact me.

Jamie