Not much energy and heavy breathing 8 week old western gray

[SydneyCoconut]

Ive noticed that my little Sydney seems to be less energetic. Started yesterday afternoon and continued into today. She is sleeping a lot and not popping up out of the cage like she usually does when I come to get her. When I take her out, she just sleeps. May groom her self for a second but stays in place and closes her eyes. She has been eating on schedule, pooping and peeing normally- but I am super nervous that something is wrong.

I dont think that I hear clicking when she breaths. Maybe a slight blowing sound. Her heart beat and breathing is fast, but i can say that I am not sure what "normal" breathing" is. No coughing, or sneezing. Should I be worried? I am worried. I am actually freaking out that I did something wrong.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Welcome to TSB. Can you please describe, in as much detail as you can, Sydney's diet? This will help us to begin to track down problems.

Thanks!

Jamie

[SydneyCoconut]

Welcome to TSB. Can you please describe, in as much detail as you can, Sydney's diet? This will help us to begin to track down problems.

Thanks!

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

Thank you so much for the reply. I am scouring the Internet looking for answers and trying not to panic. Right now I am feeding her 3 times a day (about 24 ccs) of fox valley formula. I have put squirrel block in her cage, but she doesnt seem interested. Just hides it. I changed her cage a few days ago, and did not put the warmer in. With research maybe that was a mistake, so I have put it back in her new cage. I did just try to do our night feeding 20 min ago or so, and instead of the 4 full syringes of formula, she only ate 2.
Thursday I did also give her medicine (ivermectin) for potential mites with dosing provided to me here on this page. (half an uncooked rice size)
Hope this is helpful and I really look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Well, there are two Fox Valley formulas that are similar, but different in important ways. Day One 20/50 is the appropriate one. 32/40 is not. If you're not using 20/50, you should stop right away and switch to 20/50.

What squirrel block are you using? (Brand, type, anything that helps as an identifier.) Are you feeding anything else, even as treats? MBD is always lurking, even in squirrels we feed well and appropriately. Will Sydney eat a fruit flavored Tums or two? It won't hurt, but will help if MBD is in the picture and it will give you a clue so you can rule it out or take more robust action.

The Ivermectin, as I have learned from my mentors on this board, is a poison targeted at fleas, etc. Nonetheless, it is a poison. In a baby of this age, even with meticulous dosing, it is possible that the Ivermectin is simply making Sydney feel unwell. If this is the issue, it should not surprise you to see Sydney come around to excellent health after the Ivermectin has leveled off and then left the body.

Since there is no clicking, assuming there has been no accidental burst of formula down Sydney's throat as a result of a sticking syringe suddenly jerking forward, and assuming you have been feeding with the tip of the syringe facing up and Sydney's head facing down to eliminate the chance of inhaling formula, It doesn't sound as if aspiration pneumonia is in play. If any of these things has happened, please do tell us. We are not here to judge, condemn, or criticize. We are here to help. Your concern and goodwill come through loud and clear! Regarding heart and breath rate, squirrels' are naturally fast. Humans' are much slower. When you listen, listen for noises - clicking, wheezing, or anything that sounds to you like congestion or partially obstructed breathing. Watch for distress (you have to have a keen eye - squirrels are masters of hiding pain and weakness) in the form of labored breathing, hunching over, or body heaving.

One last thought for the night - squirrels are super sensitive to our emotions. They react when they sense stress, worry, or panic in humans. Until Sydney is over this, you need to put on your game face so Sydney can find normalcy and comfort where it always has been. I'll check in in the morning. Others may also respond. Keep the faith - we're with both of you.

Jamie

[SydneyCoconut]

Well, there are two Fox Valley formulas that are similar, but different in important ways. Day One 20/50 is the appropriate one. 32/40 is not. If you're not using 20/50, you should stop right away and switch to 20/50.

What squirrel block are you using? (Brand, type, anything that helps as an identifier.) Are you feeding anything else, even as treats? MBD is always lurking, even in squirrels we feed well and appropriately. Will Sydney eat a fruit flavored Tums or two? It won't hurt, but will help if MBD is in the picture and it will give you a clue so you can rule it out or take more robust action.

The Ivermectin, as I have learned from my mentors on this board, is a poison targeted at fleas, etc. Nonetheless, it is a poison. In a baby of this age, even with meticulous dosing, it is possible that the Ivermectin is simply making Sydney feel unwell. If this is the issue, it should not surprise you to see Sydney come around to excellent health after the Ivermectin has leveled off and then left the body.

Since there is no clicking, assuming there has been no accidental burst of formula down Sydney's throat as a result of a sticking syringe suddenly jerking forward, and assuming you have been feeding with the tip of the syringe facing up and Sydney's head facing down to eliminate the chance of inhaling formula, It doesn't sound as if aspiration pneumonia is in play. If any of these things has happened, please do tell us. We are not here to judge, condemn, or criticize. We are here to help. Your concern and goodwill come through loud and clear! Regarding heart and breath rate, squirrels' are naturally fast. Humans' are much slower. When you listen, listen for noises - clicking, wheezing, or anything that sounds to you like congestion or partially obstructed breathing. Watch for distress (you have to have a keen eye - squirrels are masters of hiding pain and weakness) in the form of labored breathing, hunching over, or body heaving.

One last thought for the night - squirrels are super sensitive to our emotions. They react when they sense stress, worry, or panic in humans. Until Sydney is over this, you need to put on your game face so Sydney can find normalcy and comfort where it always has been. I'll check in in the morning. Others may also respond. Keep the faith - we're with both of you.

Jamie

I am in tears and after reading your message, this will have to stop! Thank you for your strength and words. I found Amoxicillin/clavulanate tablets 875 mg /125 mg in my house, just in case. I truly see nothing wrong other than her energy and fast breathing.

I do feed Sydney with the syringe up and head down. I will attach a picture just of how I feed her, just in case i need to correct what I am doing.
However, my husband does the morning feedings. He says he has the tip up a little bit but she likes to lay down when he feeds her. I do recall the other day she excitedly took her first syringe and inhaled too much. I immediately put her head down and wiped her nose. She sneezed a few times and when I felt all was good, went back to feeding. I am pretty sure this was on saturday.

Thank you again so much for your time and response. I feel I can breath a bit better. I am finding myself staring at her cage and super worried something will happen. If there is anything else I should do before I fall asleep ( if I fall asleep) I will absolutely do it! Thank you Jamie!

[SydneyCoconut]

Well, there are two Fox Valley formulas that are similar, but different in important ways. Day One 20/50 is the appropriate one. 32/40 is not. If you're not using 20/50, you should stop right away and switch to 20/50.

What squirrel block are you using? (Brand, type, anything that helps as an identifier.) Are you feeding anything else, even as treats? MBD is always lurking, even in squirrels we feed well and appropriately. Will Sydney eat a fruit flavored Tums or two? It won't hurt, but will help if MBD is in the picture and it will give you a clue so you can rule it out or take more robust action.

The Ivermectin, as I have learned from my mentors on this board, is a poison targeted at fleas, etc. Nonetheless, it is a poison. In a baby of this age, even with meticulous dosing, it is possible that the Ivermectin is simply making Sydney feel unwell. If this is the issue, it should not surprise you to see Sydney come around to excellent health after the Ivermectin has leveled off and then left the body.

Since there is no clicking, assuming there has been no accidental burst of formula down Sydney's throat as a result of a sticking syringe suddenly jerking forward, and assuming you have been feeding with the tip of the syringe facing up and Sydney's head facing down to eliminate the chance of inhaling formula, It doesn't sound as if aspiration pneumonia is in play. If any of these things has happened, please do tell us. We are not here to judge, condemn, or criticize. We are here to help. Your concern and goodwill come through loud and clear! Regarding heart and breath rate, squirrels' are naturally fast. Humans' are much slower. When you listen, listen for noises - clicking, wheezing, or anything that sounds to you like congestion or partially obstructed breathing. Watch for distress (you have to have a keen eye - squirrels are masters of hiding pain and weakness) in the form of labored breathing, hunching over, or body heaving.

One last thought for the night - squirrels are super sensitive to our emotions. They react when they sense stress, worry, or panic in humans. Until Sydney is over this, you need to put on your game face so Sydney can find normalcy and comfort where it always has been. I'll check in in the morning. Others may also respond. Keep the faith - we're with both of you.

Jamie

327298

This is what she looks like when I feed her! Also, I was so worried about replying fast, so that you would see the message before you fell asleep that I did not reply to everything you asked. I am sorry.

She has the 20/50 formula and the henrys healthy blocks. This is all I have ever offered. Other than sticks. We have oak and birch in our yard. She loves to chew. But to my knowledge, based on the mess she leaves, she is not eating the sticks.

I may have some tums. Would I just give her a whole one if she will take it?

Should I refrain from giving her the second does of ivermectin on thursday? If its poison I sure dont want to give her more. The itching has stopped though for the most part and I dont see any new bumps/bites on her.

[CritterMom]

OK, I think you could have two things going on here.

That she is still eating well is a good thing but the lethargy is not. Let's get proactive here.

Check your own medicine cabinet, call friends, family, coworkers, etc., and see what type of antibiotics you can find - not vet meds, human ones. You will only need one pill. Excellent choices would be Cipro, or Augmentin, also known as Amoxicillin clavulanate. There are many others that will also work, but if you can get one of these two, don't even inquire back here, just get it. See if the person can give you the size in milligrams. If you can't get that info, take a pic of the pill and put it up here so we can identify the size. Don't worry about expiration dates unless the med is Doxycycline.

We will need the current weight on your baby. You will need a 1cc syringe that has clear markings on it. With that and the mg size of the pill one of us will give you detailed (and easy) instructions for diluting and dosing the meds.

A reaction to the ivermectin would have happened early on - it is almost out of her system now. But you said there was some snorting of formula that took place and it only takes a minute amount to set up a bacterial issue in the lungs if it gets in there. It is still early, but I would treat this baby for aspiration pneumonia.

See what you can find.

[CritterMom]

And don't worry about boosting calcium or any of that. The formula has plenty.

[TomahawkFlyers]

CritterMom is perfectly correct. Get the info she is asking for (weight of Sydney,) and post it here as soon as you are able. The meds you have are perfect. Now that you mention the inhalation/sneezing episode, aspiration pneumonia becomes the prime suspect. The tums aren't part of how to fix that. Regarding the ivermectin, it might be prudent to hold off on the next dose until the main problem is solved. CritterMom might think differently. If she does, please follow her lead. She is one of my mentors.

This is time sensitive - please get us the info as quickly as you can.

Thanks!

Jamie

By the way - regarding the sticks, the bark is the first to go and the sticks are often left behind. If you have an apple orchard nearby, they might give you some branches trimmed from their trees. I've had dozens of flying squirrels and not one of them ever turned down an apple stick. They are near the top of their treat pyramid!

[SydneyCoconut]

Thank you both! Sydney is acting her normal self this morning! Eating and lots of energy! I’m so happy!!! She stayed on her warmer all night, too!

In my cabinet I do have Amoxicillin/clavulanate tablets 875 mg /125 mg. I also have the 1cc since feeding her in the early stages. She weighed 371 g this morning.

Please let me know your suggestion! I am so grateful to the both of you!

[CritterMom]

Well that is all just fantastic. I wonder what was going on yesterday?

So I would watch her like a hawk for the next few days. I will do some calculations and send them to you that will let you have an escalating dose that takes into consideration weight gain. That way, if you see a return of what you saw yesterday, OR she suddenly doesn't want to eat, even if it is a few days from now, you will have the dosing so you won't have to wait for someone to help you here.

Are you able to read the tiny lines on your syringe? The ink that they print them with comes off after a few washings, and you will need those.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Terrific!!! When you need help, you know where to find us.

Jamie

[CritterMom]

Sent you dosing by PM for her weight right now and worked it out up to 100 grams heavier than she is now.

It is easy to aspirate the slightly older ones. Sometime between 5 and 6 weeks old they go from delicate little creatures that you are carefully dispensing formula to drop by drop to lunatics that require both of your hands on the syringe and a big toe hooked around the plunger to keep them from sucking the entire thing dry in one gulp. They usually spring this on you at about 3AM when your defenses are down. Just remember that you are in charge of that darned syringe - you paid for it - and don't let them do that! Our unfortunately now late, great Nancy in New York always said that if they aren't a little PO'd at you for going too slow, you aren't going slow enough!

And if nobody mentioned it, keep your formula powder in the freezer. It will go rancid sitting out at room temperature for long periods and there is nothing about that on any of the containers. It mixes perfectly well straight from the freezer.