Black/very dark brown poop - on formula for 10 days

[Mouse&Chubs]

Hello, I have 2 baby squirrels. Both are about 3 weeks old and I’m transitioning their formula from the Wombaroo Squirrel Milk Replacer to FV 20/50. I transition over 4 days, and we’re on day 1 with 25% FV and 75% Wombaroo. One of my girls has developed dark brown/black colored poop and her sister still has the golden yellow/ochre colored poop. Do I need to be concerned about the dark poop color, considering they’ve been on formula since I got them (I’ve had them for 10 days)? They’re fed every 3 hours at 6% weight. The girl with the black poop is 46 g and has been gaining about 2 g per day, while the other girl with the normal poop is 56 g and gains like 5+ g per day. The dark poop is pelleted, not soft or like diarrhea. She’s not dehydrated per the skin turgor test. Any thoughts? Infection? I’m concerned something is spreading among the babies because I had 3 babies but one passed away this morning completely out of the blue. He was gaining weight, about 2 g per day, had excellent poops, but just died. This is my first death, so I’m being tough on myself.

[Charley Chuckles]

Bumping your thread.....I'm sorry I have no answers 🙏
:bump

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hello, I have 2 baby squirrels. Both are about 3 weeks old and I’m transitioning their formula from the Wombaroo Squirrel Milk Replacer to FV 20/50. I transition over 4 days, and we’re on day 1 with 25% FV and 75% Wombaroo. One of my girls has developed dark brown/black colored poop and her sister still has the golden yellow/ochre colored poop. Do I need to be concerned about the dark poop color, considering they’ve been on formula since I got them (I’ve had them for 10 days)? They’re fed every 3 hours at 6% weight. The girl with the black poop is 46 g and has been gaining about 2 g per day, while the other girl with the normal poop is 56 g and gains like 5+ g per day. The dark poop is pelleted, not soft or like diarrhea. She’s not dehydrated per the skin turgor test. Any thoughts? Infection? I’m concerned something is spreading among the babies because I had 3 babies but one passed away this morning completely out of the blue. He was gaining weight, about 2 g per day, had excellent poops, but just died. This is my first death, so I’m being tough on myself.

Hi M&C:
First of all; the passing of a Squirrel or Squirrels if you are in "this" long enough is inevitable! As I have mentioned before; I am nowhere near to a "big-time" rehabber but even in my very limited Rehabbing endeavors there have been deaths and literally everyone involved in animal care (or human care, for that matter) has had to deal with the death of one of our charges! It is never easy, even for those deaths that are expected such as a Squirrel with sepsis (a systemically spread infection that can easily lead to multiorgan failure and death) or a Squirrel struck by a vehicle, just for example. When a death occurs, expected or not, it is still tragic and for those caring for these sad cases; it probably never gets any easier! One of the mental traps that anyone involved in the care of living things is the tendency to blame ourselves! Please don't do that M&C but I realize it is easier for me to give this advice than for you (or me for that matter) to act upon it! I do wish peace for you and I hope that this sad passing of your little Squirrel does not deter you from further Rehabbing endeavors!

As far as the the variances in weight and weight gain; these are very common but valid concerns! One of the variables that I do not have any experience with is the Wombaroo Squirrel formula. I had never heard of this until Henry's became a distributer of this. It is an Australian company that manufactures this formula and they have a primary US distributer. I have talked with and corresponded with Geoff from Perfect Pets in Redford, MI which is the US representative of Wombaroo. I am not aware of anyone who has used the Wombaroo Squirrel Milk Replacer (from having asked Wobaroo directly, I was informed that specifically that they say that the formula can be used for all ages of Squirrels and this is how they put it in an email to me; "from newborn to weaning!" I just don't know. I am NOT implying that the Wombaroo has anything to do with the change in stool color or the difference in weight and weight gain between babies or certainly the sad and unexpected death of one of your Squirrels; only that there is a very tiny experiential data base for using the Wombaroo formula and of course in transitioning from it. Most likely this is a very adequate formula but I would sure like to encourage anyone using this to post their experiences with it!

Just to preface my comments to follow, I suspect that the dark stools you are seeing are "ok." You have mentioned that they seem of normal shape and consistency and I assume that there is no unusual odor to them. One of the concerns about black stool is the possibility that the animal is passing blood. If there is bright red blood seen in the stool, the likely site for this to be originating in in the colon, rectum or the anus itself. For blood to turn the stool black usually implies that the source of bleeding is in the upper gastrointestinal region such as the stomach. Also, a GI bleed often has a very foul odor but a lack of this characteristic can be a bit misleading as all Squirrel poops are small and baby Squirrel poops are outright tiny and the odor may simply be missed. Further, as far as dark stool from a GI bleed is concerned, the poop really should be black or contain truly black regions and not just dark brown. There are test for Fecal Blood that are very simply to perform and most Vets would be likely to have these. It may be possible for you to contact a local Vet or preferably a Vet you know is Squirrel Friendly and just tell them that you would like to bring a stool specimen to them to run a FOBT (fecal occult blood test) and see if they would agree. There doesn't seem to me to be any reason to even mention a Squirrel but---.

Another thing as far as a transition to FV20/50, right at 3 weeks may be the very earliest this should occur. Also, we are in uncharted waters with the Wombaroo but it may be an option at least for the lower weight/weight gain Squirrel to consider with the transition to to incorporate some Ultraboost with the FV 20/50 or hold off full transition and continue 2 parts Wombaroo + 2 parts FV 20/50 + 1 part Ultraboost until about 5 weeks when the eyes are open and then do some other transitioning to stop the Wombaroo and add Esbilac powdered Puppy Milk to the FV 20/50 and go half and half or even 2 parts Esbilac + 2 parts FV 20/50 and 1 part Ultraboost. In my limited baby experience, between 3 and 4 weeks I transition from Esbilac to 1 part Esbilac + 1 part FV 20/50 until weaning.

These are just some thoughts racing through my small mind ****BUT what I would really like to ask is for Spanky, Island Rehabber, Milo's Mom or someone else with lots of Baby experience to make some suggestions for your Squirrels' nutritional support going forward! Their recommendations would be very valuable and appreciated!****

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mouse&Chubs]

Thanks for the kind words and help SamtheSquirrel. I'm not the most experienced with pinkies, and this litter was my youngest yet, but I have lots of experience with eyes-open babies. I tried the HGMF with this litter since that's what I could find at that time, and the girl with the black stools had severe diarrhea from it (the other two were fine with it), so I transitioned to Wombaroo for all babies, and all had really great poops and no diarrhea from the transition. They all took to it really well, so the unexpected loss of my boy was hard because I didn't see any of the "traditional" signs of illness. I've seen a lot of death at the rescue, but this was the first baby squirrel death I personally experienced when rehabbing at my house. I love squirrels too much to stop rehabbing!

I considered Wombaroo as the problem, but many reviews on various websites said it was great for pinkies, and I wanted to give it a try. Plus, it was from Henry's and if they trust it, then I trust it as well. But like you said, I don't know anyone who uses Wombaroo (I don't see it mentioned too much on the TSB), and I have zero data to compare it with. At the next feeding, I did inspect her poop a bit more and it's definitely just dark brown; there's no blood in it and it does not smell. Also, of course, right after posting, her poop returned to an ochre color. Today's her poop is cycling between dark brown and ochre and they're on 50% FV 20/50 with 50% Wombaroo.

Thanks for the formula suggestions, and I agree with keeping them on the formula longer, until 5 weeks. I reviewed a few of CritterMom's posts re: formula transition on other threads and saw that it was acceptable to wait until at least 5 weeks to transition - great tidbits of knowledge for me! Yes, if anyone else would like to chime in on formula combination recommendations, I'd appreciate it. Again, not a lot of pinkie experience; this may be my 3rd litter of them total, but any help is welcomed.

Thanks again squirrel fam!

[Spanky]

As StS said, we (TSB collective) don't have much experience with Wombaroo... I had never heard of it before Henry's started selling not all that long ago. What I do find "curious" is that Wambaroo is made in Australia... and Australia has zero indigenous squirrel species (just sharing what went through my head the first time I took a gander at Wombaroo for squirrels).

In my observation it seems common to see diarrhea using the HMGF with egg yolk in pinkies.

I can't recommend Wambaroo having not used it, but currently I do recommend Esbilac puppy formula, the powdered version and not liquid because they are not anywhere near the same. And not the Esbilac Goats Milk version FWIW. I am also a fan of Zoologic 33/40 for pinkies, but the minimum packaging is 5lbs so that is not always a viable option for "casual" rehabbers (folks not dealing with a lot of babies every season).

Personally, I transition to 50% Esbilac (or Zoologic 33/40) and 50% Fox Valley 20/50 at 3.5 weeks and I stay with that until weaning / release.

My mantra with Pinkies, well all babies but pinkies especially, is less is more... by which I mean try to resist making too many changes unless they are really warranted, because the changes can be really hard on them. As a newbie with pinkies my knee jerk instinct was that I had to change something to get better results... but some kind and patient mentors here on TSB talked me off the cliff and I soon learned... less can often be more. Pinkies benefit tremendously from consistency... formula feeding times, amounts, the temp of the formula, consistent pottying... consistent everything. Getting off the routine can get impact them detrimentally. At least in my experience.

[Mouse&Chubs]

As StS said, we (TSB collective) don't have much experience with Wombaroo... I had never heard of it before Henry's started selling not all that long ago. What I do find "curious" is that Wambaroo is made in Australia... and Australia has zero indigenous squirrel species (just sharing what went through my head the first time I took a gander at Wombaroo for squirrels).

In my observation it seems common to see diarrhea using the HMGF with egg yolk in pinkies.

I can't recommend Wambaroo having not used it, but currently I do recommend Esbilac puppy formula, the powdered version and not liquid because they are not anywhere near the same. And not the Esbilac Goats Milk version FWIW. I am also a fan of Zoologic 33/40 for pinkies, but the minimum packaging is 5lbs so that is not always a viable option for "casual" rehabbers (folks not dealing with a lot of babies every season).

Personally, I transition to 50% Esbilac (or Zoologic 33/40) and 50% Fox Valley 20/50 at 3.5 weeks and I stay with that until weaning / release.

My mantra with Pinkies, well all babies but pinkies especially, is less is more... by which I mean try to resist making too many changes unless they are really warranted, because the changes can be really hard on them. As a newbie with pinkies my knee jerk instinct was that I had to change something to get better results... but some kind and patient mentors here on TSB talked me off the cliff and I soon learned... less can often be more. Pinkies benefit tremendously from consistency... formula feeding times, amounts, the temp of the formula, consistent pottying... consistent everything. Getting off the routine can get impact them detrimentally. At least in my experience.


Thanks for the info on HMGF+ and will keep this in mind next time. Unfortunately, the pet store already closed and Publix is the only grocery store in my area that carries fresh goat milk (Meyenberg brand), so that's what they got.

Ok, I'm very regimented in their feeding, so they do have consistent feeding times, and I always keep a feeding chart with notes, etc.

It's been a couple of days, and the girl with the dark poop, has gone back to "normal", and while she is gaining weight everyday (about 4 g), she is about 20 g lighter than her sister as of this morning. She looks so wrinkly and dehydrated, but again, the turgor test suggests otherwise. Based on the responses above, I just kept them on the 50% Wombaroo and 50% FV 20/50 for the time being - I want to switch to Puppy Esbilac, but with the statement "less is more", I'm trying to do less. I will feed electro-stat in between feedings to see if that helps her situation. Any other suggestions in the meantime? She's not "failing to thrive" since she's gaining weight, but it FEELS like she is based on physical appearance compared to her sister. I've attached a photo of each girl as a reference. 326709326710

[Mel1959]

Many times squirrel babies can benefit from an occasional feeding of warmed water. The tumor test is not always dependable and a water feeding IN BETWEEN a scheduled feeding might be needed.

As Spanky said too many changes is not recommended. On the same note if any changes are made they should be done slowly and only one at a time.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Many times squirrel babies can benefit from an occasional feeding of warmed water. The tumor test is not always dependable and a water feeding IN BETWEEN a scheduled feeding might be needed.

As Spanky said too many changes is not recommended. On the same note if any changes are made they should be done slowly and only one at a time.

Hi M&C: I agree completely with what Mel has stated! The Skin Turgor Test is inconsistent not reliable as a sole determinant of hydration status! There is no harm in using it IF there are other variables you have available to truly access the hydration status. History is often all that is needed to assume dehydration and some good examples are the intake of a new baby that was found on the ground as this Little One has been Mother's Milk Dependent and has obviously been away from that fluid source! In reality, most every baby intake should be considered dehydrated!

Another bit of simple clinical evidence to support dehydration would be decreased fluid intake or obvious fluid losses such as with diarrhea. What fluids to administer as supplemental fluids (additional fluids or fluids other than formula) is an often misunderstood issue and quite often Pedialyte or some other Electrolyte containing solution is provided as a "rehydrating" solution rather than simply plain water. Squirrels (and mammals in general) have an obligatory loss of what is physiologically termed Free-Water. This is plain water without much if any electrolytes (sodium, chloride, potassium etc). Pedialyte and the other electrolyte containing solutions provide varying amounts of Free-Water and some such as Normal Saline (NS) have no Free-Water (extra water that is NOT associated with electrolytes). The type of fluids you decide to use for supplementation is of the utmost importance and a knee-jerk use of Pedialyte or worse yet a solution such as NS for what is simply a mild loss or deficit of what is almost exclusively just water can result in the potentially harmful increasing of electrolyte concentrations in the body. Electrolyte containing solutions have their place in fluid management and two very common and appropriate justifications for utilizing these is for emergent resuscitation (bleeding, shock or impending shock and similar) as these solutions tend to replenish the volume within the blood vessels more efficiently than using just plain water and also for replenishing fluid losses from diarrhea as that is often a loss of both water and electrolyte! BUT, it is still necessary to ensure adequate intake of Free-Water and again, Free-Water losses are part of normal physiology and must always be considered. These are water losses associated with urination, panting and breathing, sweating to varying degrees depending on species (Squirrels are not "big sweaters").

I would strongly recommend the "routine" supplementing fluids be accomplished only with plain water, just as Mel has suggested and forego any use of an electrolyte containing solution! While I have not used the Electro-stat, its name implies clearly that it contains extra electrolytes and I did look at the FV site to verify this and whilke I suspect this product does contain some Free-Water (water in excess of electrolytes), it does not state its Osmolality which is what we can use to get a very accurate idea as to the Free-Water status of a substance. IMHO, if you are going to supplement fluids between feedings (and that is fine for now at least); that you give only plain, clean, clear water with maybe a touch of sweetener such as honey, syrup or molasses (1 teaspoon of sweetener per cup of warm plain water would be a fair mix) and avoid the electrolyte solutions!

Spanky's comments are right-on as far as trying to effect changes and maintaining a consistency but the other side of this is that while Wombaroo may very well be ok as baby Squirrel formula (and I suspect it really is), we do not have the experiential database to support this assumption and while you now have your babies on 1 part Wombaroo plus 1 part FV 20/50 (a half and half mixture), it may very well be worth going ahead and transitioning to 1 part Esbilac Powdered Puppy Milk plus 1 part FV 20/50. This is what a number of us use including Spanky and myself and gradually discontinue the Wombaroo and maintain this mixture of half Esbilac and half FV 20/50 until fully weaned.

Please keep on with the updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Mouse&Chubs]

Many times squirrel babies can benefit from an occasional feeding of warmed water. The tumor test is not always dependable and a water feeding IN BETWEEN a scheduled feeding might be needed.

As Spanky said too many changes is not recommended. On the same note if any changes are made they should be done slowly and only one at a time.

I will try the warm water in the next 10 min since it's exactly "halfway" between feeding times. Thank you.