Mbd with paralysis/seizures

[Mg1987]

I have an eastern grey who is approximately 3 months old experiencing seizures and hind leg paralysis on both sides . Diet has been unsalted mixed nuts, lettuce and fruits. No blocks.

I received him last night and gave him Pepcid ac 500 mg concentrated for his first dose and then 100 mg every 2 hours after.

I went to the store this morning and got some tums. Local animal store does not have any calcium that does not contain vitamin d, but I have had it express shipped. I also have him on a heating pad and bought a uvb light for him.

He has stopped having seizures but his paralysis is very concerning. These are the meds I have in my arsenal. I frequently rehab opossums but squirrels are a new adventure. He is very tame and has been rehabbed since his mother was killed by a cat.

Gabapentin 100 mg capsules (not pills)
Tramadol 50 mg tabs
Prednisone 10 mg tablets.
He weighs 400 grams. Can someone help me know how much and how to give any of these meds to hopefully have a full recovery from this? Any other tips are appreciated. His name is Nutsy!

[Mg1987]

I also have infant Motrin and he has ate some kale and a baby carrot. I mixed the tums with a little orange juice in a syringe. He is taking it well.

He keeps clicking/grinding his teeth which I am unaware of what this may mean.

Do you think he will make it? He seems to be a little better this morning

[CritterMom]

Give us his weight. He is likely in pain and the infant ibuprophen will help - we can dose with weight.

Keep doing the calcium (Tums). PLEASE, turn the Tums bottle around. Somewhere ON THE BACK in the small print, it will tell you how much elemental calcium is in each tablet. THAT is the number you want to be calculating the doses with. 1000 mg calcium Tums have about 400mg elemental calcium, not 1000 - the extra 600mg is flavoring, stuff to make it hold its shape, etc,. You don't want to UNDERdose him.

The paralysis is caused by the MBD - it is muscle paralysis caused by shortage of calcium. I will let others weigh in on dosing something for it - things like prednisone are dosed for paralysis because they are fantastic anti-inflammatories but this isn't caused by an injury or blunt trauma. As the symptoms of MBD recede, this should, too.

Dose multiple small doses of calcium through the day, not one or two big doses. You are trying to keep a level amount in the blood to maximize its availability to the body systems that need it so much.

Giving him a heating pad might feel good, too.

[TomahawkFlyers]

A diet of straight nuts, unsalted or not, with fruits and veggies is likely not enough to keep illness away. Others here are far more experienced with grays (I'm a flyer guy) and surely will answer your post quite soon. In the meantime, there is a "Sticky" at the top of this area entitled "Emergency Treatment for MBD." It will not hurt your squirrel if the problem is not MBD, but following the instructions may very well save its life if it is MBD. This is a critical moment - if it is MBD, time is of the essence. Go read the instructions and follow them closely. Good luck to you and your little one!

Jamie

[TomahawkFlyers]

Ha! There you have it. An expert has responded. Good luck!

[CritterMom]

This is what TomahawkFlyers referred to: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?32122-MBD-Treatment

This treatment is calculated for a 500 gram squirrel, so calcium amounts will be increased or decreased accordingly.

[Mg1987]

I also have infant Motrin and he has ate some kale and a baby carrot. I mixed the tums with a little orange juice in a syringe. He is taking it well.

He keeps clicking/grinding his teeth which I am unaware of what this may mean.

Do you think he will make it? He seems to be a little better this morning


HE WEIGHS 400 grams. I am changing his diet. CAN ANYONE PLEASE TELL ME A DOSAGE FOR ANY OF THE ABOVE MEDS?

[Mg1987]

Give us his weight. He is likely in pain and the infant ibuprophen will help - we can dose with weight.

Keep doing the calcium (Tums). PLEASE, turn the Tums bottle around. Somewhere ON THE BACK in the small print, it will tell you how much elemental calcium is in each tablet. THAT is the number you want to be calculating the doses with. 1000 mg calcium Tums have about 400mg elemental calcium, not 1000 - the extra 600mg is flavoring, stuff to make it hold its shape, etc,. You don't want to UNDERdose him.



The paralysis is caused by the MBD - it is muscle paralysis caused by shortage of calcium. I will let others weigh in on dosing something for it - things like prednisone are dosed for paralysis because they are fantastic anti-inflammatories but this isn't caused by an injury or blunt trauma. As the symptoms of MBD recede, this should, too.

Dose multiple small doses of calcium through the day, not one or two big doses. You are trying to keep a level amount in the blood to maximize its availability to the body systems that need it so much.

Giving him a heating pad might feel good, too.

Hi critter mom. He weighs 400 grams. The elemental calcium in the tums I have is 200 mg. I gave him 500 elemental mg last night and have continued in 100 gram doses every 3-4 hours.

Any idea why he is clicking teeth. I hope someone can help me dose at least the children’s Motrin? Is the prednisone only given for paralysis due to injury?

Also, what should I feed right now? I do plan on switching his diet fully.

[CritterMom]

Very good on the calcium dosage. I have sent you dosing for the infant ibuprophen by PM.

The reason prednisone sometimes works to turn paralysis around is because it is often caused by internal swelling caused by injury/impact that begins pressing on nerves it usually would not, causing the paralysis. The powerful anti-inflammatory action of the steroid meds like pred reduces the swelling really fast, which relieves the pressure on the nerves and allows them to heal. That isn't what is happening with MBD. It is a nutritional deficiency. Plus, one of prednisone's side effects is that it dampens the immune system, which makes healing take longer. I am one of the biggest prednisone cheerleaders on here because I have seen it do magic, but I would not use it here.

I don't have enough experience with gabapentin to recommend one way or the other. If the ibuprophen doesn't help you can go to the tramadol, but that is the really big guns!

This is entirely dietary. A description of the former diet is almost smoking gun proof of MBD. You need to use diet to fix it and the calcium is the immediate trick.

BTW, you will need a 1ml or smaller syringe to measure and give the ibuprophen - the dropper that somes with is is way too big to measure the amounts a squirrel needs.

Food: If you can get some of these: https://henryspets.com/squirrel-blocks/ - I suggest the Hazelnut, Walnut, or Picky flavors. These blocks, once being reliably eaten, will replace a large amount of the calcium you are having to give him now. They are a vitamins/mineral supplement plus a food, and at his size he would be eating 2 - 3 when he gets a little bigger - a day along with healthy veggies. The link I gave earlier with the MBD protocol was authored by the woman who owns Henrys. Henry was her squirrel, who got MBD, and she used the experience to build a better block that tasted good (something missing in most of them) and eventually a business. They ship extremely fast, and if you go through the site you will find all manner of things including calcium and such.

[Mg1987]

Very good on the calcium dosage. I have sent you dosing for the infant ibuprophen by PM.

The reason prednisone sometimes works to turn paralysis around is because it is often caused by internal swelling caused by injury/impact that begins pressing on nerves it usually would not, causing the paralysis. The powerful anti-inflammatory action of the steroid meds like pred reduces the swelling really fast, which relieves the pressure on the nerves and allows them to heal. That isn't what is happening with MBD. It is a nutritional deficiency. Plus, one of prednisone's side effects is that it dampens the immune system, which makes healing take longer. I am one of the biggest prednisone cheerleaders on here because I have seen it do magic, but I would not use it here.

I don't have enough experience with gabapentin to recommend one way or the other. If the ibuprophen doesn't help you can go to the tramadol, but that is the really big guns!

This is entirely dietary. A description of the former diet is almost smoking gun proof of MBD. You need to use diet to fix it and the calcium is the immediate trick.

BTW, you will need a 1ml or smaller syringe to measure and give the ibuprophen - the dropper that somes with is is way too big to measure the amounts a squirrel needs.

Food: If you can get some of these: https://henryspets.com/squirrel-blocks/ - I suggest the Hazelnut, Walnut, or Picky flavors. These blocks, once being reliably eaten, will replace a large amount of the calcium you are having to give him now. They are a vitamins/mineral supplement plus a food, and at his size he would be eating 2 - 3 when he gets a little bigger - a day along with healthy veggies. The link I gave earlier with the MBD protocol was authored by the woman who owns Henrys. Henry was her squirrel, who got MBD, and she used the experience to build a better block that tasted good (something missing in most of them) and eventually a business. They ship extremely fast, and if you go through the site you will find all manner of things including calcium and such.


Thanks so much! He has perked up a lot today. Still can’t use his back legs but will twitch or move them and he is twitching his tail.

That makes sense about the meds. And thanks you so much for the dosing!

I will order the Henry’s right now! I am hopeful he regains full use of his hind legs!

[CritterMom]

In a few days, when you begin to start seeing more movement in his legs, start to very gently massage them. Just between your thumb and forefinger, just to stimulate the blood flow a little. That he is perking up is a good sign. Just don't take your foot off the gas until he is ALL better. It can take a while to get back to completely better. I am so VERY happy you got your hands on him!

BTW, make sure you keep him in surroundings that prevent him from climbing because he will want to as he gets better. His muscle weakness will make that dangerous until it is all gone so for now you need to protect him from falls, which he does NOT need, and ground him.

[Mg1987]

In a few days, when you begin to start seeing more movement in his legs, start to very gently massage them. Just between your thumb and forefinger, just to stimulate the blood flow a little. That he is perking up is a good sign. Just don't take your foot off the gas until he is ALL better. It can take a while to get back to completely better. I am so VERY happy you got your hands on him!

BTW, make sure you keep him in surroundings that prevent him from climbing because he will want to as he gets better. His muscle weakness will make that dangerous until it is all gone so for now you need to protect him from falls, which he does NOT need, and ground him.

I will do all of that. :)

What should I feed til the Henry’s get here? I have kale lettuce carrots apples, etc. some yogurt/peanut butter. Ofcourse I will go buy whatever is needed. I know he needs more than calcium mixed with juice. Also, advice on how to get him to eat the Henry’s when it arrives? I’ve read many don’t like it at first. I also have the ebsilac powder from other rehabs.

[Mg1987]

Additionally, he is having some diarrhea. Which I am cleaning him with warm running water on his hind legs. Any solutions or causes?

Next, I’m feeling a little defeated. So happy he is crawling with his front legs and more alert/ no more seizures. He’s also twitching his legs/tail. I know everyone recovers differently but any success stories of paralysis recovery taking a while? We started initial treatment at 9 pm Monday night. I just want him to walk again.

[Spanky]

I received him last night and gave him Pepcid ac 500 mg concentrated for his first dose and then 100 mg every 2 hours after.

You should NOT be using Pepcid, which has famotidine which may very well be causing the diarrhea. Tums works, but make sure it is one without Vitamin D.

It will take weeks for him to recover enough to be out of the danger zone and literally months for his bones to re-gain the strength they should have.

[Mg1987]

You should NOT be using Pepcid, which has famotidine which may very well be causing the diarrhea. Tums works, but make sure it is one without Vitamin D.

It will take weeks for him to recover enough to be out of the danger zone and literally months for his bones to re-gain the strength they should have.



I have switched to tums. Pepcid is all I had at 9pm upon receiving him.

Are there any success stories of regaining leg use after a couple days of treatment? I know he will need treatment for months and I will do whatever it takes. Just hoping for some encouragement that he may regain use. Or do they usually not ?

[CritterMom]

This is a wait and see thing.

Many years ago, when I first started here at TSB, there was a woman in N. Florida with two brother squirrels, both of which got MBD, one with full back end paralysis. The vet, after x-rays, announced that it was spinal trauma and that he should be euthanized. We decided to give him MBD treatment instead - to at least see if maybe the vet was wrong and he wasn't going to be permanently paralyzed. It took a full year but that squirrel eventually recovered completely and was able to be released with his brother.

The amount of time depends on how bad the MBD is. He is showing some improvement already, and he had *some* movement with leg and tail twitching. I can't tell you how long it will take, but I sincerely doubt it will be as long as the story above. Be patient, keep him quiet and out of trouble with falls, give him the good diet and the additional calcium and then do the hardest thing - wait. I believe you caught him just in time - at least I hope so. The next symptom would have been seizures, also caused by low calcium, and once those start, unfortunately survival is a coin toss. He hadn't gotten there yet, thank goodness.

When you get the Henry's blocks, you need to let us know how many a day he is actually consuming (including mentally subtracting crumbs left behind) and we will recalculate the amount of calcium. The blocks have quite a bit - they were made specifically to prevent MBD - so once he is reliably eating THOSE, you will be reducing the additional calcium but quite a bit because it will be provided by the blocks.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Hey, Mg1987. I'm watching all of this unfold; and, while there are never any guarantees about anything in this life, it seems to me that there is a lot going for you and your squirrel right now. Yes, your little guy is suffering. Your squirrel is in what will likely be the toughest spot in his life. You are suffering too - and that matters. A lot. It shows you to be a kind, caring, and compassionate soul to whom the welfare of others, regardless of species, is of great importance. Let's start with that?

If your squirrel happened to be in the trees right now, suffering from this problem, he'd be dead. The illness would have taken him, or he would have been easy prey for a hungry predator. So, first and most important, he has you.

Second, you have come to a place where the collective knowledge about squirrels is concentrated and accurate. You have received information that just might have saved your squirrel's life. To go along with that, you have, and will continue to receive, emotional support from people whose empathy has been hard won. Support for your squirrel. Support for you.

Third, the symptoms you described at the start are indicative of fairly advanced and quite serious MBD. Even with the best of help, things at this point could be going in another direction entirely. You are trying so hard to do the right things and your squirrel knows this. Your attitude toward the situation is, I believe, affecting his, and his progress is the greater for it.

Fourth, you have described improvements that indicate healing has begun. As others have written, recovery from MBD is a long and arduous process. Your reaction to your squirrel's situation, your resolve to ensure a healthy diet, and your message that you are in this for the long term. Again, your squirrel knows this. You are holding fear at bay for him, and he has permission to heal in safety and comfort. Think about this. It is a very, very big deal and is already showing in the progress your little guy is making.

Fifth, paralysis is subsiding, although at a rate that makes it difficult to recognize. It is not in the human experience to easily acknowledge what we cannot see, especially in the midst of crisis.That twitching is a signal that things just might, given time and patience, resolve as you hope they will.

Again, your squirrel has you. Your are providing him a chance of survival and recovery. How lucky you both are to have each other. Regardless of the outcome, he'll stay strong for you just as you stay strong for him. It is natural and appropriate to be deeply concerned.. As would a distressed child, your squirrel needs you to wear your game face and to be that ever-present soul he can always count on. Keep at it - we're rooting for you!

Jamie

[Mg1987]

Hey, Mg1987. I'm watching all of this unfold; and, while there are never any guarantees about anything in this life, it seems to me that there is a lot going for you and your squirrel right now. Yes, your little guy is suffering. Your squirrel is in what will likely be the toughest spot in his life. You are suffering too - and that matters. A lot. It shows you to be a kind, caring, and compassionate soul to whom the welfare of others, regardless of species, is of great importance. Let's start with that?

If your squirrel happened to be in the trees right now, suffering from this problem, he'd be dead. The illness would have taken him, or he would have been easy prey for a hungry predator. So, first and most important, he has you.

Second, you have come to a place where the collective knowledge about squirrels is concentrated and accurate. You have received information that just might have saved your squirrel's life. To go along with that, you have, and will continue to receive, emotional support from people whose empathy has been hard won. Support for your squirrel. Support for you.

Third, the symptoms you described at the start are indicative of fairly advanced and quite serious MBD. Even with the best of help, things at this point could be going in another direction entirely. You are trying so hard to do the right things and your squirrel knows this. Your attitude toward the situation is, I believe, affecting his, and his progress is the greater for it.

Fourth, you have described improvements that indicate healing has begun. As others have written, recovery from MBD is a long and arduous process. Your reaction to your squirrel's situation, your resolve to ensure a healthy diet, and your message that you are in this for the long term. Again, your squirrel knows this. You are holding fear at bay for him, and he has permission to heal in safety and comfort. Think about this. It is a very, very big deal and is already showing in the progress your little guy is making.

Fifth, paralysis is subsiding, although at a rate that makes it difficult to recognize. It is not in the human experience to easily acknowledge what we cannot see, especially in the midst of crisis.That twitching is a signal that things just might, given time and patience, resolve as you hope they will.

Again, your squirrel has you. Your are providing him a chance of survival and recovery. How lucky you both are to have each other. Regardless of the outcome, he'll stay strong for you just as you stay strong for him. It is natural and appropriate to be deeply concerned.. As would a distressed child, your squirrel needs you to wear your game face and to be that ever-present soul he can always count on. Keep at it - we're rooting for you!

Jamie


I needed this so very much! Nutsy needed it too! He is getting around the clock care as I work from home. He is getting his 500 mg (prob a little too much but no white poop yet) of elemental calcium divided throughout the day mixed in with ebsilac and water til his Henry’s gets here.

Additionally I am massaging his little feet and we are doing slow up and downs on his hind legs every 2 hours during the day. I once had a dachshund paralyzed due to spinal injury and this is what the therapists recommended. I usually let his dosage of infant Motrin kick in good before we do therapy and of course we quit if he shows any signs of discomfort like attempting to bite or excessive licking. He has not had any leg kicks today but I did feel his legs put a little resistance to push up on his own during therapy. He also had one very small tail flick.

Additionally, no more diarrhea since we found tums and not using Pepcid. I have a squirrel calcium on the way from exotic nutrition. And his heating pad stays on low under his bed.

He is having good bowel and bladder movements. I am sure to clean him up good to not have urine scald.

We are both fighting for him and I am open to all suggestions. He’s much happier today and didn’t seem to be in any pain but that could be due to the Motrin. I let him crawl supervised a little. Oh and we have a uvb light on him for about an hour a day bc it’s too cold to get natural sunlight.

Thanks so much for everyone’s encouraging words! Nutsy is a little fighter! 🥜 (even if he can’t have nuts) lol 😂

[Mel1959]

It sounds like you are getting great advice. I know this info is a little late but I wanted to put it out there in case others in need read this thread. I have found plain calcium carbonate powder at health food stores.

i just wanted to say that the uvb light should be a full spectrum uva/uvb light placed on top of the cage to limit the amount of direct light into his eyes. The higher the Repti-sun number on the bulb the further the light beams throw. Mine is a 10.0. According to my vet the light needs to be on a minimum of 2-4 hrs. daily.

[Mg1987]

UPDATE: Nutsy has flicked his tail twice this morning. He isn’t able to get it all the way up but he can move the base. He also just put his left leg under him. He can’t push up on it by himself yet tho.

Nutsy is a lil fighter! :woot:serene

[TomahawkFlyers]

Rock ON! Both of you.

Jamie

[CritterMom]

See? Baby steps. You two will get there - it certainly seems like he is holding up his end of the bargain!

[Mg1987]

Update: Nutsy is still not using his back legs. He does respond to a small massage and jerk his leg. He also uses them to try and get away during baths. Occasionally, he scratches his tummy really fast but that may be involuntary.any advice or encouragement is appreciated. I really hope he regains use of his hind legs but I grow a little more bleak in outlook daily.

He is eating 4-5 Henry’s blocks a day supplemented with veggies/fruits sprinkled with a tinch of extra calcium. Anything I should add?

He is not gaining any weight and is staying steady at 400 grams. Is there anything I can do to get some weight on him? Or is that not priority right now?

He is climbing his cage very well and does not let his hind legs hinder him.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Update: Nutsy is still not using his back legs. He does respond to a small massage and jerk his leg. He also uses them to try and get away during baths. Occasionally, he scratches his tummy really fast but that may be involuntary.any advice or encouragement is appreciated. I really hope he regains use of his hind legs but I grow a little more bleak in outlook daily.

He is eating 4-5 Henry’s blocks a day supplemented with veggies/fruits sprinkled with a tinch of extra calcium. Anything I should add?

He is not gaining any weight and is staying steady at 400 grams. Is there anything I can do to get some weight on him? Or is that not priority right now?

He is climbing his cage very well and does not let his hind legs hinder him.

Hello Mg1987. I'm sorry that you have not yet had a response to your latest post about Nutsy! It does sound like he is improving. If he is really using his hind limbs concertedly and effectively to "try to get away during baths' it would indicate that the nerve pathways must be intact and muscles must be functional although there is obvious weakness. I hope as well as you that this all resolves!

Two Henry's Blocks (approximately 10 grams) provide a full nutritional intake for a Squirrel. A maximum of three should ordinarily be the limit as these Blocks were formulated to provide everything that would comprise complete nutritional support in a relatively small amount. This small amount, you have found out will not provide for satiety (feeling full) and more food will be necessary. One of the concerns I have about consumption of 4 or 5 Henry's Blocks is the amount of Vitamin D that is being given. I'm certainly not implying that you have done any harm but I would like to suggest that you limit the Henry's to two blocks or certainly a maximum of 3 and provide other Quality Blocks such as Teklad 2018 or Mazuri Rat and Mouse diet as further nutritional supplementation as these can be free-fed (Nutsy can have as much as he wants)! Utilizing Henry's Food Pyramid can be helpful but especially early on in the treatment program for MBD, avoiding treats, avoiding excessive phosphorus and maintaining an ideal Calcium to phosphorus ration is essential and to do that; using food from the lower levels of the pyramid is essential. The lowest and healthiest level at the bottom of the pyramid is "Blocks"! Here is a link to the Pyramid;
( https://henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/ ).

I would like to recommend that you use a totally separate and defined Calcium Supplement such as Calcium Carbonate (the substance in Tums) and actually calculate the amount needed for supplementation of Calcium. With two Henry's Blocks, you are giving Nutsy around 250mg of Elemental Calcium. Using Henry's Treatment for Metabolic Bone Disease, it would appropriate for you to supplement an additional 250mg of Elemental Calcium daily and you can divide this into 4 or 5 portions to be given throughout the day. It is Elemental Calcium that should be considered when providing or supplementing Calcium as the usual calcium preparations such as Calcium carbonate are really combinations of substances and as in using Calcium carbonate as an example (and my preference as it contain the most Elemental Calcium per unit weight); this particular Calcium source contains 40% Elemental Calcium. So, to give 250mg of additional Elemental Calcium by utilizing Calcium carbonate, you will need 625mg of Calcium carbonate (250 is 40% of 625).

Please also see my recent post (book!) in the Non Life threatening Forum addressed to Freddie's Mom. It contains some added information along with my humble comments and recommendations!
( https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?70230-mbd&p=1365073#post1365073 ).

You already have the link to Henry's MBD treatment ( https://henryspets.com/emergency-treatment-for-mbd/ ) and here is a link to Henry's information page for MBD;
( https://henryspets.com/what-is-metabolic-bone-disease/ ).

Please keep on with updates about Nutsy and once again, I apologize for you not receiving a more timely response to your post!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel